“So, you are saying that because violence will be used against me that proves the state is real and I consented? Who is really fantasizing here? You are the one who believes in something he cannot prove. Me not paying thieves and getting shot for noncompliance would only be evidence that we have been enslaved by a monopoly of violence.”
“The reality is that you would rather believe in fictions. Prove your reality with evidence. I can prove mine. Look at the earth from a satellite photo. If you see any borders let me know.”
Atra Lupis on Apr 23, 2014 at 18:53:30
“Oh how cute! Now you're going to try and pull that lovely little last ditch tactic?
There is no need to "prove" a single thing. You are capable of reading and thus are perfectly capable of picking up and reading a few history textbooks.
Once again, you would be better off on an isolated island.
No further responses will be required: You may believe your fantasy for as long as you wish. Until you can "prove" it by refusing to pay your taxes and suffering not a single consequence, you have nothing.”
“That's because you cannot answer. It's a fiction and you know it. You just can't stand facing the facts. Your state is not real and it challenges your beliefs. You are experiencing cognitive dissonance. That's right, no consent, Hand it over or be shot. Being governed without consent is called slavery. Enjoy!”
Atra Lupis on Apr 22, 2014 at 22:53:39
“Nice try - thanks for projecting yourself and revealing why you insist on playing your little games: You are not grounded in reality.
Have a nice life - you'd be a bit more at home living on an isolated island.”
“If you ask me what the federal government is I would have to answer nothing. It is an idea, an opinion. At best it is a legal fiction. It is lines drawn on maps by people. I can draw lines on maps but that doesn't make my lines real borders that exist.
You have not answered my question. What is the government factually? If there is an agreement to pay then where is the evidence of such an agreement? To have a legal contract voluntary consent is required. When did Bundy voluntarily consent to another person (not a fiction) to pay fees and have violence used against him if he failed to pay. Who is the real person that he contracted with?
Strip away all the assumptions and fictions and you have nothing. If someone told you to pay them would you not want to see the agreement or would you just hand over your money because they said so? These are questions that need to be answered for any contract to be enforced.
What evidence is there the codes apply to Bundy? In court you need a witness with firsthand knowledge to support factual evidence. How could you prove you are within the United States? What is the US factually? If you cannot produce the evidence of jurisdiction then how can you apply the codes?
This may seem illogical analogies because you believe in things that actually do not exist.”
Atra Lupis on Apr 22, 2014 at 00:16:43
“Thank you for the laugh - it is quite apparent that you have no attachment to reality whatsoever.
Your "questions" do not deserve any answer beyond reminding you that you know exactly what the federal government is, know exactly how fees and taxes work ... and choose to ignore reality.
Federal fees and taxes require no contract and never have. That is reality.
try refusing to pay your taxes for a few years and see what happens.
Enjoy your little games - you have nothing whatsoever to add to the discussion nor do you have anything of substance to argue with.”
“What is the federal government factually? What evidence is there that Bundy contracted with anyone to pay anything. Will you asserting that assumptions are evidence? Men with guns come to take money they only say are owed and you believe their victim is the violent one for defending himself? I guess if an armed robber tells you to give him your money because he says you owe it then you would be the violent one if you decided to defend your property and your life.”
Atra Lupis on Apr 21, 2014 at 13:17:50
“You may pretend to not understand as long as you would like - I will not be playing your little game.
You know what the federal government is, you know how fees and taxes work and you know that there is no 'victim' here. You know that the militia types that showed up had no business being there whatsoever, you know that Bundy has had more than one court case and has ignored each ruling and order to pay what he owes. You know that until about twenty years ago, he had no issues paying his grazing fees.
You can keep the illogical analogies to yourself.”
“Who do they owe over a million dollars to factually? Is it a person they voluntarily contracted with? What evidence is there that they had an obligation? Or were they threatened with violence to obey some made up rule by people they never met or consented to? He who initiates the use of force is by definition the violent offender.”
Atra Lupis on Apr 17, 2014 at 00:31:51
“Reading comprehension is not your strong suit now is it - nor is your grip on reality.
The land is owned by the federal government, they owe over a million in unpaid grazing fees (fees they had NO issue paying until about twenty years ago) and have now refused to adhere to court rulings demanding they pay what is owed.
Your notion concerning the use of force is quite quaint - BLM officials were threatened the last time they tried to collect what Bundy owes. This time they were not taking chances.
There is no "violent offender" here: Just a deadbeat rancher that thinks he does not have to pay his fees and can threaten those whose job it is to collect what is owed and a group of militia nuts that actually think they are doing the right thing by showing up geared for a fight.
Bundy precipitated the BLM agents showing up armed with his prior threats. The militia nuts made it worse.
The nuts should have been turned into an example.”
“Maybe you should ask the aggressors to stop threatening peaceful people with guns. The difference between violence and using force to defend yourself is the initiation of the use of force. The government is using violence to force these people to comply. Sure, they should back down because the people who call themselves government are willing to end the lives of all those who oppose them and outgun everyone. In the same sense it would be wiser to hand over your wallet to an armed mugger then to risk death over possessions or property as in this case.”
Atra Lupis on Apr 16, 2014 at 19:01:34
“Show up to 'defend' someone who owes over a million dollars and has been ordered by two different court judges to pay up, then threaten to use force?
Sorry, the militia members should have been shot, the cattle taken (or destroyed if they still refuse) and the entire thing turned into a lesson for the type of nuts that showed up to 'defend' Bundy.
The family had their chance to do things peacefully. It's been twenty years with Bundy willfully ignoring court orders. No more playing nice.”
“What evidence is there that the laws apply to them or anyone else? They should go back to court and challenge jurisdiction by asking for evidence that the laws applicable and that they are within the US. What evidence could you provide that proves you are within the US? When the prosecutor fails to come up with the evidence and the witness with personal knowledge to prove the laws are applicable the judge should dismiss the case. Sadly all judges will steamroll defendants as they are paid by the state which is a conflict of interest. Regardless, their bosses will have a tough time allowing verdicts to stand without satisfying a defendants request for proof of jurisdiction as it is a major element of any crime and must be proven beyond a reasonable doubt. As long as they stand their ground any ruling against them should be overturned as no appellate judge would want the fact that the laws do not apply to anyone to reach the supreme court letting the cat out of the bag.”
“Just some of the unfounded fears that keep monopolies of violence chugging along. Fail to pay the tax theft needed to fund the worlds largest prison population, drone attacks and wars and your beloved government will take your property and if that is not enough they will chain, kidnap and cage you. Refuse to obey and you will be brutalized. Defend yourself from these unprovoked attacks and you will be shot. Do you really think people who are willing to shoot you to get your money have any interest in protecting you? Government is the largest polluter. If you have the money you can pay to pollute all you like and only then will the government protect you. Booms and busts are government created. That is what happens when you force people to use your money, block competition and counterfeit. You might want to have your water tested. If there was no government for you to depend on there would still be people with your same concerns willing to do something about the issues which concern just about all of us. They would just do it without pointing guns to raise the money required to force people to obey. Most voluntarily supported efforts succeed while all efforts based on threats and violence only spawn corruption and result in carnage. Any system of voting for who should point the guns at the rest of us causes conflict making cooperation extremely difficult to nearly impossible.”
1. You are being stalked
2. You have had your life or the life of a family member threatened
3. You have been robbed at gunpoint/knifepoint
4. Your neighbors have had their home invaded
5. You've been raped
6. There is a rapist or murder loose in the area
7. You live in a neighborhood where you hear gunshots constantly
8. You have some things some people may be willing to kill you for
9. You know the cops will do nothing to protect you
10. You are personally responsible for your own safety, the safety of your family and the protection of your own property
It's better to be safe than sorry. Do you feel scared and paranoid when you put on your seatbelt? Answering the door with a gun feels the same as making sure you have clothes on. You manage to own smoke alarms and a fire extinguisher without living in fear of a fire. A gun is just a tool you'll hopefully never have to use in defense of a life but just in case...”
manumitter on Dec 13, 2013 at 10:47:02
“So you admit to feeling paranoid, your word, without a gun?
Check out the mental health of some people who insist on weaponizing everyone else's life...”
JaviiGamero on Dec 13, 2013 at 06:40:42
“"You know the cops will do nothing to protect you" You sound like a person who lacks trust.
"You have some things some people may be willing to kill you for" Now that you mention it, its one of the problems of drug dealers, well arms industry generate profit while selling to those guys.
"You live in a neighborhood where you hear gunshots constantly" I wonder, if someone shoots to the air, how will buying a gun save you? You and your flawed educational marketing and you cant even think for yourself, oh thats part of their marketing, I forgot, they dont want you to think.
"Youve been raped" Wow, its interesting to see how the arms industry encourages other kind of crimes. So, it is ok if I women misinterprets signs and ends up murdering a guy who wasnt really a threat to her?
"Your neighbours have had their home invaded" Yeah, Ive heard of that, the thing is that on those cases its usually a very large group of people who invades, to steal, the thing is that if your on your bed and wake up with a gun on your head and the masked guy tells you, to the living room, I dont mind losing my tv, mobiles, etc, not even when Im being tied, I can buy it again. Oh, but life is the US is all about posessions, your worth if you can have as many as your neighbour.
I will continue later, no space.”
“I'm guessing you have never had your life threatened, been stalked or a victim of a violent crime. And you probably live in a neighborhood where you don't hear gunshots all night or half your neighbors have had their homes invaded. I'll bet you feel pretty safe and probably will unless you too someday become a victim.”
skatscan on Dec 13, 2013 at 09:22:45
“Getting a gun would not help. All it would do is ADD to the shootings in the neighborhood with yet MORE paranoid people. MOVING is the best solution.”
“Many people do. Have you ever been the victim of a violent crime? Ever have someone stalk you and threaten to kill you or your kids? Not everyone has lived your life. You answer the door unarmed until you have been traumatized by a violent attack then you know better. What if you lived in a neighborhood where you hear gunshots going off all the time? What if a dozen of your neighbors experienced a home invasions over the last month? There are many reasons to be cautious and responsible for your own safety and the safety of your family.”
“Reading through the comments it seems that most people think everyone in jail is a violent pos and should suffer. How sad that these people have no empathy for the majority of people caged for victimless and nonviolent "crimes". Millions of vague laws makes you and everyone you know law-breaking felons. Then there's the Innocence Project and the fact that eyewitness testimony is the most unreliable form of evidence yet most responsible for convictions. And how does the US maintain a 95% conviction rate? There are many innocent people doing time because being threatened with decades in prison persuades most people to take a plea whether they did it or not. Prison/jail (being locked in a cage) may be a social club for the gangs and a summer camp for the truly violent but for peaceful people who are caged for noncompliance it is hell with or without cable TV or a disgusting "turkey" dinner.”
“Who do you have ask to form a corporation? Who issues the licenses and regulates them? Corporations are the creations of governments.
Government is just the hired guns of corporations. They buy politicians and laws to block competition, get around regulations and do as they please. It may seem like they are at odds but they actually feed off each other. Kind of like democrats and republicans. They may have minor conflicts but their missions are identical; the pursuit of power, control and wealth.”
“Let's say you have a business and hired some help. You negotiate a wage with each employee and everyone is happy. Then someone stops by and says you need to pay more and if you don't they will shut you down and if you don't comply they will chain you up, kidnap you, cage you and shut you down anyway. If you resist you will be brutalized and if you defend yourself from this attack you will be killed. All of this just to force you to pay someone more than either of you agreed to. Every law is a threat.”
“Who said a free society would be Utopian? Oh, that's right, it was you.
You seem to support using threats of violence to force people to obey and pay. Do you find that to be an ethical stance?
Corporations are the creation of government yet you support government. That seems odd.
The people who call themselves government are bought off by the people who own these fictitious entities called corporations so they are basically one in the same.”
stratego on Oct 28, 2013 at 20:22:35
“Corporations are the "creations of government?" Since when? Doublespeak again.
I thought government was the enemy of the corporations...It throws up "barriers" to a free economy. So you are saying the tea party was lying about this?”
If you don't pay your taxes then you get a few bullets for free. Unless you're obedient when threatened then you just get chained up, kidnapped and caged.”
keramos on Oct 28, 2013 at 08:12:33
“You don't pay enough taxes on bullets. People get killed and injured to the tune of $40 Billion per year. The taxpayers cover the costs of the fetish of a relative few. Time for gun welfare as we know it to end. You don't want to continue to be a taker, do you? You'd just rather be a liar huh, Banjo? ”
If someone FORCED you to pay someone with threats of violence against you if you fail to obey you might just protest also.”
stratego on Oct 27, 2013 at 23:18:07
“Oh, well. I guess continued boycotts are the only way to put them out of business. I LOVE the smell of free market economics turned on the oligarchs who now own this country. Lots of protestations that actions don't make us "free" until you mention the "free ride" corporations are getting THEN it is okay and any thought of cutting them off is "threatening" them. That's okay. You can defend these corporations to the end to be able to feed fake food to people for profit and kill them off slowly for profit while they enslave workers as long as it fits with your ideology. Those Romney Bain slave factories with ten young girls to a room and ten rooms to a bathroom behind razor wired walls are right up your alley, I suppose. That's your utopian "free" society.”