“We're already in a redistributive state. The top 20% pay almost everything at the federal level. It's not fair. And, it leads to bad results, as govt caters to those who actually pay for the services. The vast majority are effectively silenced. If everyone paid 20% of their income, we'd have a more responsive system.
And, Adam Smith is outdated. He wrote well before concepts like the Nation State became universal. He had little to say about class antagonisms, global capital, science/technology, etc. He wrote in a mercantalistic time, and applauded the coming division of labor.
And, the middle class of not do all of the work. In fact, with globalization and automation, they do less and less. The idea that high school grads are the people who do the actual work is utterly foolish. They are 'units of capacity' at best...the menial labor required for some basic business functions. The 'real work', or actual skill, comes from those better educated, better skilled, and smarter (usually). The talent is at the top, the arms/legs at the bottom. That is the reality of a corporation.
If the middle class were the real source of value...why do they stay unemployed? Why not start their own enterprises and allow that talent to come to market? What's stopping them if they don't need the ingenuity and leadership of the elites?”
jcvd on Apr 11, 2012 at 18:53:29
“Even with a 20% flat tax, the vast majority of federal income tax would come from the very rich, so that wouldn't make a difference in your scenario. Besides, I made 50K last year and basically paid the same rate as Mitt Romney. I doubt he's the only rich guy to figure out how to avoid paying taxes.
I don't know what your idea of middle class is, but I'm not talking just about HS grads. Most college grads are middle class, too. "Skilled" people, as you put it, people with unique and specific knowledge, are mostly middle class. Small business owners are typically middle class.
The last point you make amazes me. One thing stopping middle class people is opportunity. You may be unaware of this, but it's hard for an unemployed person to get a loan for a car, forget a loan large enough to start a business. Two, running a business requires a different skill set than the job the business actually does. It isn't for everybody, and they aren't less smart or talented or valuable because they lack that specific skill set. Three, starting a business is a huge risk, even if you are really smart and have a great plan. Some people have priorities that make that risk unacceptable. Four, most, but not all, "elites" start life ahead of the pack. They have more connections, can afford tuition at more prestigious schools, have money to invest in a business, etc. They aren't necessarily more talented.”
“What is 'equal opportunity'? What mythical world can we even imagine where wealth doesn't afford someone more opportunity. If you save before having a family, you will afford your child opportunities those without money cannot fathom. The takeaway here should be 'save before having a kid'. If you have a kid, and have no skills, no education, and no savings - what do you expect?”
“Well, the power is still 'in the people'. They simply have to exercise it.
Any corporation which is truly evil can be destroyed overnight. The idea would go viral quickly. So, if a multinational like apple or cisco were deemed evil, and the idea grew...within days they could theoretically be shut down. But, it would require a sincere protest; a powerful boycott. If just for a few days, people stopped purchasing their products, they would fold.
The power is still with the consumer - but, the sincerity is not there. Deep down, consumers want cheap ipads and other trinkets. Once they break their fix, the dealers would perish.”
“Once you go toward the left, how do you stop the slippery slope to abolishing private property, confiscating wealth, distributing monies equally? The far left would see something of a maoist insurrection, which is the reality in parts of the globe.
Is that what you want with a 'leftist' party?”
CorporateWelfare on Apr 10, 2012 at 03:22:50
“Once you go to the right, how do you stop the slippery slope to becoming a world where the corporations run the government and the people are reduced to workers?
In truth, many politicians are bought and sold and the corporations have the big stick. It is unfortunate that the 'workers paradise' on the far left is not a paradise and neither is the 'corporate paradise' on the far right. Being a slave to a communist system or a corporate system is really not that different. We need a balanced system where the government (the people), has no single master.”
“10% of the US population eat up 3/4 of the medical costs. The few are bankrupting the nation. Lets stop this silly spending on the very end of life, and direct more health care dollars to preventative care.
And, end these wars and cut the military by at least one third.”
“Do you hear an idea from the Dems which is more than handouts and redistribution? Anything?”
jcvd on Apr 9, 2012 at 21:36:41
“You say democrats believe in the the redistribution of wealth, I say republicans believe in the consolidation of wealth. The consolidation of wealth will be the death of capitalism. You should read The Wealth of Nations by Adam Smith, the man many people consider to be the father of capitalism.
Democrats believe in empowering the middle class, the people who actually do the work of this country, who drive the economy of this country.
Besides, I hardly call a 3% tax increase on the wealthiest Americans "redistribution."”
“The third reaction 'national hiring day' would get is that these are a bunch of bozos, whining for jobs which they can't earn.
You need to give up on patriotism...everyone else has. It doesn't exist, it has nothing to do with hiring, and the global economy makes such 19th/20th century thinking obsolete.”
Tom Hendricks on Apr 10, 2012 at 00:38:18
“That seems extreme to me. Do you think both candidates for president should say that at the next rally? LOL
Someone asked me 'what planet do you live on?' Having US corporations hire a few people or at least stop firing on a National Hiring Day, doesn't seem like that big a deal - but for some it is.
Here is the planet I live on “The planet where the government is at a stalemate and won't be able to fix anything - no matter how hard people wish it, where corporations are sitting on all time profits and hiring people wouldn't hurt one bit, and where people need jobs. That's the planet I live on.”
The economic recovery will not be coming from the government . They are at a stalemate, It won't becoming from the people - they are treading water. So who is left? Corporations are doing very well in this economy. Time for them to show some corporate patriotism .”
“SS and Medicare are not taxes...they are insurance premiums.
With your vision, we have a society where most people pay nothing in taxes. Do we want that? All that does is push the govt further in favor of the wealthy, who contribute all the money. Everyone should pay, especially as everyone needs services. We can't have 50%+ of society paying nothing, and another 30% paying very little. That's the formula right now.
Instead of giving people an EITC, they should first have to pay taxes. We should not be supporting people's procreative decisions with rebates. It's the opposite logic - having kids costs society money...so, each parent should pay more.”
Openmindedguy on Apr 9, 2012 at 22:25:45
“Again, you have no idea of the math. the people who pay little in Federal Taxes (and SS and Medicare are taxes), also pay disproportionate sales taxes even if they have no kids. Try paying more taxes working in Walmart and you would be out on the street. These people would gladly pay more if that wouldn't take food out of their mouths. You are not only suffering from a lack of math ability but clearly have no heart as well. Go back to watching the clowns on Faux News to make your brain even less functional.”
“Further taxing the top 10-20%, who already pay a disproportionate amount of the federal tax dollars, in order to hand out more money to those who barely contribute anything, is income redistribution.
We need to cut handouts, reduce the size of government, and promote growth through private enterprise, not govt cheese.”
Openmindedguy on Apr 9, 2012 at 16:36:35
“This is complete nonsense! When a group owns 95% of everything, what's fair is paying 95% of taxes. Anyone who thinks otherwise is in favor of greed. This is the same ridiculous thinking that leads them to complain that people who don't make enough to pay taxes beyond social security and Medicare are not paying enough. Greediness and heartlessness are the essence of these anti-social outrages.”
“How is business as usual going out of business? Corporations seem to be doing quite well, according to most metrics.
I can easily oppose patriotism...there's no logic to it. We're not all americans, and to understand the reality of the global economy, we have to take our nationalist blinders off. Offshoring has benefitted countless millions around the globe, and we should applaud it.”
“No corporation thinks about 'supporting a country' unless it's for some shallow propaganda reasons (like "national hiring day"). Corporations do hire, when they actually need the labor. Nowadays, they prefer "right-sourcing", looking for the best labor pools across the globe. Such tactics allow them to reduce product costs, benefiting both the customers, and the bottom line.
The need for expensive, unskilled american labor is simply plummeting. I think you can see that. A gimmick such as "national hiring day" is simply a vacuous scheme to sound progressive. You could have also called it "please please hire us". It's an irrelevant move.
The true questions which must be asked, and answered are how can americans compete in the new global marketplace for labor? How can people who are likely fat, who watch 5 hours of TV per day, and barely read, compete in a global environment?”
Tom Hendricks on Apr 10, 2012 at 15:55:56
“Sure it's out of work people's fault that Apple is sitting on 100 billion. This is a lot of fuss over one job! Lot's of CEO's get 50 million dollar paychecks. That's fine for business but one extra hire to support the country is out of all reason? Really? Really?
Don't forget it works both ways, "Nobody is going to buy from a company that turns it's back on the country after it's been give so much and is asked so little in return.
Think corporate patriotism is naive? You can try to do PR against America but good luck with that sales promotion!
National HIring Day would help everyone, even dinosaur businessmen that don't get patriotism.”
Tom Hendricks on Apr 10, 2012 at 00:41:57
“Patriotism is not begging - I don't see how the two can be confused.
Let' me say this too. Corporations that walk away from this country, will find that customers walk away from them. They may think they are so big they can't fail, but going against the country may be the way to insure they fail.
Let me know which corporation you think would turn their back on the country just to avoid ONE job to help the country (or even to just stop firing for that week) - and i'll be glad to help put them out of business.”
“They are not "your" jobs. It's a competitive market, no different than the market for any other good or service. If you purchase a lamp from China, would a local provider of lamps claim that china stole their sale? Silly.”
humanbeing-rick on Apr 9, 2012 at 11:50:28
“I speak for the people. How about "American" jobs then?
You should support America if you belong to her!”
“A corporation, especially a multinational, is not patriotic.”
Tom Hendricks on Apr 9, 2012 at 11:25:08
“Good luck with that press release - "We at Xco hate America and Americans. We can't be bothered to help even with one job. Now buy from us more, give us more tax breaks, and subsidies."
Beyond the extreme views I think this is what you find:
National Hiring Day idea gets two reactions from people - the one says all corporations will turn their back on the country and put greed ahead of patriotism. The other says corporations are there to make money, most are just getting by, and patriotism through jobs creation is not a part of that responsibility.
I think most corporations are somewhere in between - they see that supporting the country during tough times like this is not a burden but an opportunity, an opportunity to not only help those out of a job, but get the economy going and help themselves to new customers with those new jobs.”
Corporations will adapt...they will cater to the high end, and the very low (the hourglass economy). No firm wants to pay expensive western rates for unskilled labor. The idea that someone with a high school degree will earn $50k/year will be more and more unlikely.
Many americans will have to move overseas to get their resumes moving.”
Tom Hendricks on Apr 9, 2012 at 11:21:49
“hat would be true, if nothing changes. But there is a lot of change in the air. Smart business men will see that business as usual, is going out of business.
How do both parties stress patriotism and jobs, and then turn around and oppose a national hiring day that would suggest hiring (jobs) to help the country (patriotism). I don't see how they can oppose patriotism and jobs, and support it at the same time. Do you?
Those that are for jobs, and for patriotism, how about corporations hiring one person or more each on a National Hiring Day to support their country. Both parties say they believe in patriotism and want jobs - now it's time to really prove you mean it by supporting a National Hiring Day.
There is a solution to the jobs problem and it could quickly put hundreds of thousands of people back to work. It is not pro left or right. It is not from any corporation, it's outside the government control, it's totally voluntary, works in about one week, and helps all with little sacrifice from anyone. National Hiring Day.
National Hiring Day - This is a day that corporations are encouraged to hire new employees. Corporations are called on to put patriotism first and help their country in
hard times. Those corporations that cannot hire, are asked to stop firing for that month.”
“16 is hardly breathing down anyone's neck. But, it's better than I thought. MSU isn't exactly known for top 20 programs. That said, the discipline is still a bit of a joke. It's not a real topic which attracts the best and brightest, looking to do sociological research on Education. This is a gateway degree to crappy teaching jobs. It's probably a mistake to require it, but every profession is starting to do the same, in order to professionalize themselves. It's half vestigial, this degree.”
Spartan112 on Apr 9, 2012 at 07:33:05
“Actually in reference to Admin rankings Columbia is 4 and MSU 5, sounds like breathing down their neck to me. They also are number one in Elementary and Secondary ed. You keep yapping and saying little. I'm guessing you have some over inflated degree from some school like Univ. of Chicago.”
“So silly. "Higher Ed administration"? Really? This is how mediocre schools try and brag about themselves...they find slivers of job activities to claim competence in. It's just ridiculous. You know very well it's not a great university, and the program isn't very well respected. I just emailed a friend at teachers college, colombia, and they laughed at the idea of MSU having a decent Ed program. Dude, it's a joke.”
“I live in chicago...MSU is considered a party school for people who didn't get into U of M or any other decent university. Look at the bottom half of the top 100...not exactly a collection of stellar universities.”
Spartan112 on Apr 8, 2012 at 21:39:20
“As far as undergrads go it is a party school. The School of Ed. is the #1 in the country for Elementary and Secondary Ed. Even their Nuclear Physics program beat out MIT for tops in the nation for two years in a row.”