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Snowe Opts Out: Votes To Proclaim Health Care Bill Unconstitutional
Commented Dec 24, 2009 at 18:19:22 in Politics
“I went for many years without auto insurance because I didn't own a car. There is no such opt out clause from the health insurance mandate.”
Snowe Opts Out: Votes To Proclaim Health Care Bill Unconstitutional
Commented Dec 24, 2009 at 18:18:39 in Politics
“The argument was forcing people to buy a product from a private company that they already deemed a bad value. Social Security is not a private company, even if some people believe that there exists a company whose business is to hand out checks to retirees.”
Snowe Opts Out: Votes To Proclaim Health Care Bill Unconstitutional
Commented Dec 24, 2009 at 18:16:59 in Politics
“The fact that "most people" have insurance through their jobs is an irrelevant argument. The question is about the millions who are above the subsidy line but have lost their employer-based insurance. The taxes on employer insurance policies will also force many more employers to dump their policies, putting more workers on the open market and forced to buy from monopolistic insurance companies.
Paying taxes is to fund public services and is a silly comparison. The insurance mandates require people to buy a product from a private company that they have already deemed too expensive.”
Paying taxes is to fund public services and is a silly comparison. The insurance mandates require people to buy a product from a private company that they have already deemed too expensive.”
Health Care Delay Privately Planned For; Obama To Pivot To New Jobs Bill
Commented Dec 24, 2009 at 18:12:57 in Politics
“The market based solution was the public option. It provided competition to the private insurance oligolopoly, so it had to be killed.
Mandating people buy insurance without a public option is throwing them to the wolves by telling them to buy something they already determined that they couldn't afford.”
Mandating people buy insurance without a public option is throwing them to the wolves by telling them to buy something they already determined that they couldn't afford.”
Snowe Opts Out: Votes To Proclaim Health Care Bill Unconstitutional
Commented Dec 24, 2009 at 11:46:57 in Politics
“A large majority of the people of Maine wanted a public option. If she had listened to her state, she would have supported the House bill.”
ron071 replied on Dec 24, 2009 at 12:40:48
“An explanation will be required if this woman ( Snowe ) is ever re-elected by Mainers.”
Snowe Opts Out: Votes To Proclaim Health Care Bill Unconstitutional
Commented Dec 24, 2009 at 11:29:19 in Politics
“They may have a point. How can the government mandate you purchase from a private company?
Don't cite auto insurance, because auto insurance is only required if you operate a car. Health insurance is now obligated if you breath.”
Don't cite auto insurance, because auto insurance is only required if you operate a car. Health insurance is now obligated if you breath.”
ron071 replied on Dec 24, 2009 at 12:35:33
“Axel the genious wishes to eliminate passengers whose lives are also at risk. I'm hoping that our emergency room" patients" will now be held responsible for their own health. Axel wants to blind himself to the reality of the issue and grasp at the latest Republican attempt to thwart real help for real people. Yes, Snowe has really given us the latest of her Snowe-jobs with the help of that constitutional expert named John Ensign. Is Axel for real?”
TheFalseFlag replied on Dec 24, 2009 at 12:03:57
“Very good point. Is there anything else that the government currently mandates for all people? Auto insurance also protects others. Is there any liability issue in mandating personal health insurance?”
yweston replied on Dec 24, 2009 at 11:45:35
“Most Americans have insurance through their jobs. And they mandate people pay taxes. So good luck with that one Olympia. We'll see how you make out declaring the bill "you helped to write" unconstitutional. Or are you saying you didn't know it was unconstitutional when you added your "two cents"”
PWM replied on Dec 24, 2009 at 11:37:36
“It is an interesting question, but I doubt the SCOTUS will even hear the case. Public utilities are private companies and we have to pay them like it or not.”
Senate Passes Health Care Bill, 60-39
Commented Dec 24, 2009 at 11:27:20 in Politics
“He didn't do it by emasculating him, either.”
Senate Passes Health Care Bill, 60-39
Commented Dec 24, 2009 at 11:26:51 in Politics
“Why would he need to get re-elected to do anything in 2011? He is serving a 4-year term.”
Senate Passes Health Care Bill, 60-39
Commented Dec 24, 2009 at 11:25:56 in Politics
“We got a bill, but this is not reform.
The Republican obstructionism blocked them out of any negotiations. Would we have Republican's precious tort reform if McCain has signed on? They managed to block the public option, which would have held premiums in check, but otherwise their obstructionism resulted in them getting no input into the bill.
Republicans are counting on winning back Congress based on this bad bill, but it is unlikely they wil pick up more than a few seats. Even if they do, they have created a precedent where 41 Democrats can block anything a Republican Congress and White House wants, meaning this bill is here to stay no matter what Republicans do in 2010 or 2012.
Just folding your arms and saying "no" is not effective government. Minority parties are expected to negotiate their priorities into bills, not simply hope for complete failure of our government.”
The Republican obstructionism blocked them out of any negotiations. Would we have Republican's precious tort reform if McCain has signed on? They managed to block the public option, which would have held premiums in check, but otherwise their obstructionism resulted in them getting no input into the bill.
Republicans are counting on winning back Congress based on this bad bill, but it is unlikely they wil pick up more than a few seats. Even if they do, they have created a precedent where 41 Democrats can block anything a Republican Congress and White House wants, meaning this bill is here to stay no matter what Republicans do in 2010 or 2012.
Just folding your arms and saying "no" is not effective government. Minority parties are expected to negotiate their priorities into bills, not simply hope for complete failure of our government.”
Senate Passes Health Care Bill, 60-39
Commented Dec 24, 2009 at 11:21:31 in Politics
“This bill is a huge blow to the middle class. It provides large subsidies to families making less than $30k, but nothing for families making close to the national average. It assumes a $13k premium for a family of 4, but claims that $32k is enough to afford such an annual premium.
The bill mandates coverage, taxes plans in place (with ridiculously low criteria for "luxury" plans), and encourages insurance companies to raise premiums via the mandates, subsidies and lack of public option. The result will be many companies downgrading or dropping coverage, and citizens downgrading plans, exposing themselves to greater financial risk.
The inevitable acceleration in health care premiums are going to cause the system to collapse as the middle class's economic security is endangered by expensive and ineffective health insurance coverage.
This is a complete failure for Obama and Congress. I could not be more disappointed.”
The bill mandates coverage, taxes plans in place (with ridiculously low criteria for "luxury" plans), and encourages insurance companies to raise premiums via the mandates, subsidies and lack of public option. The result will be many companies downgrading or dropping coverage, and citizens downgrading plans, exposing themselves to greater financial risk.
The inevitable acceleration in health care premiums are going to cause the system to collapse as the middle class's economic security is endangered by expensive and ineffective health insurance coverage.
This is a complete failure for Obama and Congress. I could not be more disappointed.”
Gingrich: Bachmann Will Become Committee Chair After 2010 Elections (VIDEO)
Commented Dec 23, 2009 at 16:13:09 in Politics
“They made Jesse Helms Foreign Relations Chair, so why not put Bachman in charge of Education?”
Health Care Delay Privately Planned For; Obama To Pivot To New Jobs Bill
Commented Dec 23, 2009 at 15:54:28 in Politics
“Unlike Bush, Obama included funding for the wars in the actual budget, not the continuing fraud of "emergency spending" later on.
The bill is actually $100 billion less than what Bush spent when you total those costs.”
The bill is actually $100 billion less than what Bush spent when you total those costs.”
Chubbster replied on Dec 23, 2009 at 16:19:54
“So what, the bottom line is that these idiotic wars not only kill hundreds of thousands of innocent people but they have drained away trillions already. How war is budgeted today is nothing to make anyone happy.
And let's get over our emotional issues around Bush and move on. We were all sick to death of him, sure, and now he's way back in the rear-view mirror. If you are still stuck, seek professional help.”
And let's get over our emotional issues around Bush and move on. We were all sick to death of him, sure, and now he's way back in the rear-view mirror. If you are still stuck, seek professional help.”
Health Care Delay Privately Planned For; Obama To Pivot To New Jobs Bill
Commented Dec 23, 2009 at 15:49:38 in Politics
“No Congress can bind a future Congress without a Constitutional Amendment. Any piece of legislation can be amended by a future legislature, otherwise they violate the right of American citizens to vote in a new government and change policies set by a discredited Congress and President.
Would this Congress respect such a clause written by Bush and the GOP in 2005?”
Would this Congress respect such a clause written by Bush and the GOP in 2005?”
Health Care Delay Privately Planned For; Obama To Pivot To New Jobs Bill
Commented Dec 23, 2009 at 15:47:11 in Politics
“How about shoring up our infrastructure, which has trillions in deferred maintenance, and one of the slowest, most expensive Internet services in the industrial world.
Money for rail, highways, bridges, electrical grid, etc. would not only provide jobs, but give our grandchildren the same support system for the economy that our grandparents gave us.”
Money for rail, highways, bridges, electrical grid, etc. would not only provide jobs, but give our grandchildren the same support system for the economy that our grandparents gave us.”
Health Care Delay Privately Planned For; Obama To Pivot To New Jobs Bill
Commented Dec 23, 2009 at 15:44:16 in Politics
“What makes the President think that he can be "hands off" on the most important policy change in decades? Bush never took this approach and as a result, got nearly everything he wanted from Congress, no matter how wrong-footed his policies were.”
Health Care Delay Privately Planned For; Obama To Pivot To New Jobs Bill
Commented Dec 23, 2009 at 15:42:54 in Politics
“The Senate bill is a disaster that makes no attempt to rein in health care premiums for the middle class. The entire point of the public option was to give middle class families a choice for affordable health care. Subsidies, Medicare expansion and mandates not only fail to address premium inflation, but actually exasperate it. The House bill does an excellent job of addressing that, but Obama and Pelosi have abandoned it to satisfy Lieberman rather than attempt to maneuver around him.
If the President can come up with a market-based solution to keeping health care premiums down, then I'd be willing to forgo the public option. Otherwise, I see this "reform" as a disaster for middle class Americans who will face enormous premium pressure as a result of the Senate bill. The middle class voters will not react kindly to this bait & switch.”
If the President can come up with a market-based solution to keeping health care premiums down, then I'd be willing to forgo the public option. Otherwise, I see this "reform" as a disaster for middle class Americans who will face enormous premium pressure as a result of the Senate bill. The middle class voters will not react kindly to this bait & switch.”
freelancerighter replied on Dec 23, 2009 at 16:04:49
“A market based solution? You are truly an optimist. That would be rather difficult since the health insurance companies have both an anti-trust exemption and freely ignore the monopoly laws.
The exchanges are designed to help with premium costs. There's quite a bit about them in the manager's amendment. It's on the CSPAN web site.”
The exchanges are designed to help with premium costs. There's quite a bit about them in the manager's amendment. It's on the CSPAN web site.”
Health Care Delay Privately Planned For; Obama To Pivot To New Jobs Bill
Commented Dec 23, 2009 at 15:38:05 in Politics
“In other words, they were handed massive majorities in both Houses, and they think the best way to preserve them is to do as little as possible with them.
It is amazing that they have the largest majorities either party has enjoyed in a generation, and they wonder why so much is expected of them. Getting everything you ever possibly hoped for from voters and then failing to deliver the minimum expected will not fly with your base nor with independents, who care little for partisanship but everything about results.”
It is amazing that they have the largest majorities either party has enjoyed in a generation, and they wonder why so much is expected of them. Getting everything you ever possibly hoped for from voters and then failing to deliver the minimum expected will not fly with your base nor with independents, who care little for partisanship but everything about results.”
lafayette2009 replied on Dec 23, 2009 at 16:57:55
“"they were handed massive majorities"
Wrong:
Senate:
D: 58 of which at least 5 are "Blue Dogs."
I: 2 of which one is a leech
R: 40 of which ALL down are determined to bring Obama just by saying NAY!
Please explain the "Massive Majority" and note, while you are thinking about your answer, that NONE of major parts of the Senate version of HCR as it is now, could have been achieved under reconciliation so they need 60.
I just hope that once this is put to bed, they stuff all the budgetary related stuff like Public Option, Medicare Buy-in, et al, down the Republicans throats because they can be done with 51 votes under reconciliation.
.”
Wrong:
Senate:
D: 58 of which at least 5 are "Blue Dogs."
I: 2 of which one is a leech
R: 40 of which ALL down are determined to bring Obama just by saying NAY!
Please explain the "Massive Majority" and note, while you are thinking about your answer, that NONE of major parts of the Senate version of HCR as it is now, could have been achieved under reconciliation so they need 60.
I just hope that once this is put to bed, they stuff all the budgetary related stuff like Public Option, Medicare Buy-in, et al, down the Republicans throats because they can be done with 51 votes under reconciliation.
.”
speakingtruth2power replied on Dec 23, 2009 at 15:59:59
“Massive majorities is a bold faced LIE! We have all seen what a few dinos
can do when trying to get progressive reforms. Dems need another election
to win their trifecta and have those votes that you are now so falsely claiming.”
can do when trying to get progressive reforms. Dems need another election
to win their trifecta and have those votes that you are now so falsely claiming.”
freelancerighter replied on Dec 23, 2009 at 15:51:10
“Hm. "Massive Majority". Not exactly. They got several Republicans in Democrat clothing and an entire Republican party that is so obsessed with their Anti-Obamaism that they have forgotten that they too, are charged with the care of the American people.
The two parties generally balance each other out, but right now we have so many corporate-
That means the public has to buckle down and start checking out how their OWN politicians vote and if they don't approve--get 'em out.”
The two parties generally balance each other out, but right now we have so many corporate-
That means the public has to buckle down and start checking out how their OWN politicians vote and if they don't approve--get 'em out.”
McCain Emerges As Front Man In GOP Efforts To Claim Reform Mantle
Commented Dec 23, 2009 at 15:34:35 in Politics
“Republicans would have gotten a much better deal if even one of their senators had been sincerely willing to bargain. Instead of Lieberman and Nelson being the Kingmaker, any Republican could have stood up and demanded changes for his/her support, but none made a legitimate effort.
Republicans are too afraid of Teabaggers to effectively govern. They are already a severely diminished party, and their only ability now is to fold their arms, jeer and hope for the worst for America.”
Republicans are too afraid of Teabaggers to effectively govern. They are already a severely diminished party, and their only ability now is to fold their arms, jeer and hope for the worst for America.”
gmgl replied on Dec 23, 2009 at 15:40:20
“Let's hope so because dems are doing the best they can to help them with this now awful health care bill.
Concentrate on jobs dems! At least there are no insurance companies to buy that bill.”
Concentrate on jobs dems! At least there are no insurance companies to buy that bill.”
Nation's Largest Nurses Organization: Health Care Bill Cedes Too Much To Insurance Industry
Commented Dec 23, 2009 at 09:30:30 in Politics
“Tell that to Californians.”
O'Donnell: Health Care Bill Will 'Give Liberalism A Very Bad Name' (VIDEO)
Commented Dec 22, 2009 at 23:44:28 in Politics
“You will never get 60 votes for anything significant. If you allow members of your own party to filibuster your bills, then you don't deserve to have the majority.
Democrats are unlikely to hold 60 seats next year, and Republicans are determined to defeat Obama at all costs. If Reid allows members of his own party to filibuster without consequence, then America has become ungovernable with a broken Senate.
Reid had 58 votes for the public option, but Rahm Emmanuel told him to cater to Lieberman. Obama made no effort to keep it, and as a result, the bill has no mechanism to keep premium inflation in check.
Remember that when your mandatory Blue Cross premium goes up by 15% again next year.”
Democrats are unlikely to hold 60 seats next year, and Republicans are determined to defeat Obama at all costs. If Reid allows members of his own party to filibuster without consequence, then America has become ungovernable with a broken Senate.
Reid had 58 votes for the public option, but Rahm Emmanuel told him to cater to Lieberman. Obama made no effort to keep it, and as a result, the bill has no mechanism to keep premium inflation in check.
Remember that when your mandatory Blue Cross premium goes up by 15% again next year.”
O'Donnell: Health Care Bill Will 'Give Liberalism A Very Bad Name' (VIDEO)
Commented Dec 22, 2009 at 23:39:25 in Politics
“I saw Barbara Boxer on Countdown and she couldn't make a coherent argument for this bill.
The only flaw in the health care bill is a fatal one: There is no mechanism to control premiums.
While the bill does some nice things, it is a threat to the middle class because the subsidies and mandates, when entered into the non-competitive environment most customers make, mean that premium inflation will accelerate from its already intolerable rate of 10-15% annually.
Because of this flaw, most Americans will be forced to downgrade their insurance, exposing them to even greater financial risks than before, or pay the higher premiums and cut back on saving and investing, further eroding the standing of the middle class.
So, while the President can present a checklist of promises kept, the bill does nothing to prevent our current system from collapsing under the weight of unaffordable premiums crippling middle class families and overburdening employers.”
The only flaw in the health care bill is a fatal one: There is no mechanism to control premiums.
While the bill does some nice things, it is a threat to the middle class because the subsidies and mandates, when entered into the non-competitive environment most customers make, mean that premium inflation will accelerate from its already intolerable rate of 10-15% annually.
Because of this flaw, most Americans will be forced to downgrade their insurance, exposing them to even greater financial risks than before, or pay the higher premiums and cut back on saving and investing, further eroding the standing of the middle class.
So, while the President can present a checklist of promises kept, the bill does nothing to prevent our current system from collapsing under the weight of unaffordable premiums crippling middle class families and overburdening employers.”
viewfromuphere replied on Dec 23, 2009 at 14:20:59
“all right then....ho
I see a lot of moaning from the right about costs....s
Every western nation is going to have to manage this one......a
I see a lot of moaning from the right about costs....s
Every western nation is going to have to manage this one......a
Dem Strategy Memo Says The 'Good News' Is That Democrats Haven't Done Enough On Health Care Reform
Commented Dec 22, 2009 at 23:26:49 in Politics
“The only flaw in the health care bill is a fatal one. There is no mechanism to control premiums.
While the bill does some nice things, it is a threat to the middle class because the subsidies and mandates, when entered into the non-competitive environment most customers make, mean that premium inflation will accelerate from its already intolerable rate of 10-15% annually.
Because of this flaw, most Americans will be forced to downgrade their insurance, exposing them to even greater financial risks than before, or pay the higher premiums and cut back on saving and investing, further eroding the standing of the middle class.
So, while the President can present a checklist of promises kept, the bill does nothing to prevent our current system from collapsing under the weight of unaffordable premiums crippling middle class families and overburdening employers.”
While the bill does some nice things, it is a threat to the middle class because the subsidies and mandates, when entered into the non-competitive environment most customers make, mean that premium inflation will accelerate from its already intolerable rate of 10-15% annually.
Because of this flaw, most Americans will be forced to downgrade their insurance, exposing them to even greater financial risks than before, or pay the higher premiums and cut back on saving and investing, further eroding the standing of the middle class.
So, while the President can present a checklist of promises kept, the bill does nothing to prevent our current system from collapsing under the weight of unaffordable premiums crippling middle class families and overburdening employers.”
eden4barack08 replied on Dec 23, 2009 at 01:47:21
“You're wrong. Please study the plan better.”
Lost inn Translation replied on Dec 23, 2009 at 00:14:10
“These are exactly my concerns. It's as if the insured, who are already paying very high premiums, don't matter at all.”
HowietheScreamer replied on Dec 23, 2009 at 00:02:30
“Does some nice things???? WTF, over? It criminalizes the people who can LEAST afford health care by mandating they buy it from the gouging, shyster, unregulated insurance companies.
This POS bill needs to curl up and blow away. in flames.”
This POS bill needs to curl up and blow away. in flames.”
Tulka2 replied on Dec 22, 2009 at 23:37:57
“It's not over yet.”
Rep. Grijalva, Key House Progressive, Close To Conceding The End Of The Public Option
Commented Dec 22, 2009 at 23:26:01 in Politics
“The only flaw in the health care bill is a fatal one. There is no mechanism to control premiums.
While the bill does some nice things, it is a threat to the middle class because the subsidies and mandates, when entered into the non-competitive environment most customers make, mean that premium inflation will accelerate from its already intolerable rate of 10-15% annually.
Because of this flaw, most Americans will be forced to downgrade their insurance, exposing them to even greater financial risks than before, or pay the higher premiums and cut back on saving and investing, further eroding the standing of the middle class.
So, while the President can present a checklist of promises kept, the bill does nothing to prevent our current system from collapsing under the weight of unaffordable premiums crippling middle class families and overburdening employers.”
While the bill does some nice things, it is a threat to the middle class because the subsidies and mandates, when entered into the non-competitive environment most customers make, mean that premium inflation will accelerate from its already intolerable rate of 10-15% annually.
Because of this flaw, most Americans will be forced to downgrade their insurance, exposing them to even greater financial risks than before, or pay the higher premiums and cut back on saving and investing, further eroding the standing of the middle class.
So, while the President can present a checklist of promises kept, the bill does nothing to prevent our current system from collapsing under the weight of unaffordable premiums crippling middle class families and overburdening employers.”
patriotrebel replied on Dec 22, 2009 at 23:35:35
“AxelDC: "The only flaw in the health care bill is a fatal one. There is no mechanism to control premiums."
First of all, there are a lot of flaws in the bill. Second, the ultimate goal of the socialists is to get a public option, if not now, then down the road. What better way to do it than by allowing premiums to continue to escalate and then blame the insurers?”
First of all, there are a lot of flaws in the bill. Second, the ultimate goal of the socialists is to get a public option, if not now, then down the road. What better way to do it than by allowing premiums to continue to escalate and then blame the insurers?”
Landrieu Now Facing Anger From The Right, But Predicts Re-Election
Commented Dec 22, 2009 at 17:09:34 in Politics
“It's hard for me to cry over losing a Senator who won't stand up for Democratic beliefs.
If you are willing to filibuster Democratic priorities, you are a roadblock.”
If you are willing to filibuster Democratic priorities, you are a roadblock.”
wxw101 replied on Dec 22, 2009 at 17:13:36
“roadkill this next election is more like it.”
Lieberman: Obama Never Pressed Me On Public Option
Commented Dec 22, 2009 at 16:56:57 in Politics
“No, all the WH pressure came to get Democrats to cave in to Lieberman.
We see where Obama's priorities are.”
We see where Obama's priorities are.”
JustAThought56 replied on Dec 22, 2009 at 22:26:39
“That is ridiculous.
First, the public option was not popular with many Senators. Pushing for it meant the demise of any health care reform since it meant the loss of 60. Compromise is the only way to get it to pass and at least five of the 60 were never going to vote for a public option.
Second we need to stop bashing President Obama for having to face political reality. The fact is that there are a lot of conservative Democrats and liberal Republicans who are responsible for whittling away at the President's agenda and these are the people who need to be targeted, not the President.
The simple math behind the political reality needs to be faced. And people need to grow up and understand that President Obama does not have a magic wand that is going to repair all the damage that the Bush administration did in 12 months, or persuade a bunch of partisans to vote Democrat.
President Obama is a success - we are the failures for balming him instead of pressuring these politicians ourselves.”
First, the public option was not popular with many Senators. Pushing for it meant the demise of any health care reform since it meant the loss of 60. Compromise is the only way to get it to pass and at least five of the 60 were never going to vote for a public option.
Second we need to stop bashing President Obama for having to face political reality. The fact is that there are a lot of conservative Democrats and liberal Republicans who are responsible for whittling away at the President's agenda and these are the people who need to be targeted, not the President.
The simple math behind the political reality needs to be faced. And people need to grow up and understand that President Obama does not have a magic wand that is going to repair all the damage that the Bush administration did in 12 months, or persuade a bunch of partisans to vote Democrat.
President Obama is a success - we are the failures for balming him instead of pressuring these politicians ourselves.”
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