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Christopher1978's Comments

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Rev. James Martin Twitter Drive #WhatSistersMeanToMe Supports US Nuns

Rev. James Martin Twitter Drive #WhatSistersMeanToMe Supports US Nuns

Commented Apr 22, 2012 at 22:58:54 in Religion

“Well, there are the sheep, and there are the goats. I wish that you "Spirit of Vatican II" crowd would actually sit down and read the documents of Vatican II rather than some inane commentary on it. There is no excuse for your ignorance. You refuse to believe in the authority of the Church. I have only one question, if you will not accept the authority of the Church, why do you pretend to remain a part of Her?”
Rev. James Martin Twitter Drive #WhatSistersMeanToMe Supports US Nuns

Rev. James Martin Twitter Drive #WhatSistersMeanToMe Supports US Nuns

Commented Apr 21, 2012 at 02:00:33 in Religion

“Esgabel, that is fantastic that you are a cloistered nun. When was your solemn profession?

Now, you are correct, the truths that are contained in the Nicene-Constantipolitan Creed are of the timeless variety. To say that the whole of the ante-Nicene timeless truths are contained there would not really be very truthful. If you are not very familiar with the early Church, there are very many ancient writings that are readily available. You can get a 37 volume set of the Early Church Fathers at a very reasonable price at cbd.com if you wish. Fortunately, such issues as contraception, abortion and sexual perversity were dealt with in the budding Church. This leaves us with a continuity from the dawn of Christianity on these topics.

Interestingly, until the 1930s, virtually all of Christianity was opposed to contraception due to it's intrinsic evil. Unfortunately, the Anglican Church, at a Lambeth council, decided that contraception was OK in very specific circumstances. Nearly all of Protestantism followed suit. All of the things I have mentioned are Dogmatic. Absolutely.

There are some really helpful references on this. Ludwig Ott's publication, "Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma" and "The Sources of Catholic Dogma" by Denzinger are a must in this fantastic study of which we are speaking. Do you have them?”
Rev. James Martin Twitter Drive #WhatSistersMeanToMe Supports US Nuns

Rev. James Martin Twitter Drive #WhatSistersMeanToMe Supports US Nuns

Commented Apr 21, 2012 at 01:07:06 in Religion

“This "Spirit of Vatican II" that all of you anti-Catholics tout goes 100% against the teachings of Vatican II. Your "Spirit of Vatican II" that is so often referenced, is an anti-thesis to the actual Vatican II. If you do not want to believe in the defined dogmas of the Catholic Church, fine. Don't. But accept the fact that at that point you have left the Catholic Church. At that point you are no longer a Catholic. Blessed John XXIII would be rolling in his grave if he heard you try to use him to back up your heresy.”

Christopher1978 on Apr 22, 2012 at 22:58:54

“Well, there are the sheep, and there are the goats. I wish that you "Spirit of Vatican II" crowd would actually sit down and read the documents of Vatican II rather than some inane commentary on it. There is no excuse for your ignorance. You refuse to believe in the authority of the Church. I have only one question, if you will not accept the authority of the Church, why do you pretend to remain a part of Her?”

goatini on Apr 22, 2012 at 21:34:31

“Horse hockey.

signed, a Catholic woman”
Rev. James Martin Twitter Drive #WhatSistersMeanToMe Supports US Nuns

Rev. James Martin Twitter Drive #WhatSistersMeanToMe Supports US Nuns

Commented Apr 20, 2012 at 22:50:22 in Religion

“Oh, and I did read you correctly:

"merely embodied the scripturally-mandated changes that emerged from Vatican II."

I figure you are referring to the ever elusive "Spirit of Vatican II" which, thank God, has been all but slain!”

Christopher1978 on Apr 21, 2012 at 01:07:06

“This "Spirit of Vatican II" that all of you anti-Catholics tout goes 100% against the teachings of Vatican II. Your "Spirit of Vatican II" that is so often referenced, is an anti-thesis to the actual Vatican II. If you do not want to believe in the defined dogmas of the Catholic Church, fine. Don't. But accept the fact that at that point you have left the Catholic Church. At that point you are no longer a Catholic. Blessed John XXIII would be rolling in his grave if he heard you try to use him to back up your heresy.”

goatini on Apr 21, 2012 at 00:02:58

“Because slaying the spirit expressed so beautifully by Blessed John XXIII is what the Church is all about, right?

"The Council now beginning rises in the Church like daybreak, a forerunner of most splendid light. It is now only dawn. And already at this first announcement of the rising day, how much sweetness fills our heart. Everything here breathes sanctity and arouses great joy. Let us contemplate the stars, which with their brightness augment the majesty of this temple. These stars, according to the testimony of the Apostle John, are you, and with you we see shining around the tomb of the Prince of the Apostles, the golden candelabra. That is, the Church is confided to you." - John XXIII, 10/11/62”
Rev. James Martin Twitter Drive #WhatSistersMeanToMe Supports US Nuns

Rev. James Martin Twitter Drive #WhatSistersMeanToMe Supports US Nuns

Commented Apr 20, 2012 at 22:47:39 in Religion

“Actually, the 8 page document brings many things that the sisters are doing that are not in line with being Catholic. There are some stated, such as talks about "Moving beyond the Church" or even moving beyond Jesus. They have had leadership teams that are formed to dissent against Church teaching on homosexuality and on priestly ordination. These are teachings that are not debatable. They are part of the Deposit of Faith, or (T)radition with a capital (T).

Also, you bring up conscience. If you are going to use that word, use it in a Catholic understanding. If one is not understanding a Catholic doctrine, and has ideas or feelings contrary to said doctrine, they have a duty to study that doctrine and come to a great er understanding of why the Church teaches what She teaches. The Church is the greatest bastion of reason on Earth. She explains her doctrines superbly. One just needs to avail themselves of the treasure of learning the Catholic Church provides. So, no, in the sense that you are speaking, they cannot dissent due to their conscience.”
Rev. James Martin Twitter Drive #WhatSistersMeanToMe Supports US Nuns

Rev. James Martin Twitter Drive #WhatSistersMeanToMe Supports US Nuns

Commented Apr 20, 2012 at 17:17:47 in Religion

“I really must ask, have you ever read Vatican II documents? I have. I read the whole thing. Nowhere in those documents does it say, "The Catholic Church is now going to change it's 2000 year old dogmatic teachings on abortion, contraception, and the priesthood." It does not. It does hold to the 2000 years of Tradition, and, just like after Vatican II, and before it, 100 years, 500 years, 2000 years the Church still preaches and teaches the same truth. The good things that you mentioned are also a part of the tradition of the Church, but they cannot be separated from those that I mentioned. To do so is quite disingenuous. The wonderful sisters need to get back to their real charism, which is serving people through the Church. If they have abandoned the Faith, I am very sad for them. And, doing what many of these sisters have done is just that, an abandonment of Catholic Faith. I challenge you to show me in context anywhere in the documents of Vatican II that will legitimize the dissent of these sisters. I can tell you it is not there. As I said, I have read the documents, I own a copy of them. It was fantastic reading, and what you claim is within, simply is not.”

Christopher1978 on Apr 21, 2012 at 02:00:33

“Esgabel, that is fantastic that you are a cloistered nun. When was your solemn profession?

Now, you are correct, the truths that are contained in the Nicene-Constantipolitan Creed are of the timeless variety. To say that the whole of the ante-Nicene timeless truths are contained there would not really be very truthful. If you are not very familiar with the early Church, there are very many ancient writings that are readily available. You can get a 37 volume set of the Early Church Fathers at a very reasonable price at cbd.com if you wish. Fortunately, such issues as contraception, abortion and sexual perversity were dealt with in the budding Church. This leaves us with a continuity from the dawn of Christianity on these topics.

Interestingly, until the 1930s, virtually all of Christianity was opposed to contraception due to it's intrinsic evil. Unfortunately, the Anglican Church, at a Lambeth council, decided that contraception was OK in very specific circumstances. Nearly all of Protestantism followed suit. All of the things I have mentioned are Dogmatic. Absolutely.

There are some really helpful references on this. Ludwig Ott's publication, "Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma" and "The Sources of Catholic Dogma" by Denzinger are a must in this fantastic study of which we are speaking. Do you have them?”

esgabel on Apr 21, 2012 at 01:26:43

“I lived through the council as a cloistered nun...Pope John XXIII wanted to fling the windows open and let in fresh air...none of the things you mentioned are dogma...in fact Pope John had gotten a group together of married couples, priests and nuns to make recomendations on the Churches attitude toward contraception, unfortunately the Pope died before they turned in their final review which was positive for contraception...and Pope Paul VI would not follow their recommendations...the timeless truths that the church teaches is recited in the Nicene Creed...”

Christopher1978 on Apr 20, 2012 at 22:50:22

“Oh, and I did read you correctly:

"merely embodied the scripturally-mandated changes that emerged from Vatican II."

I figure you are referring to the ever elusive "Spirit of Vatican II" which, thank God, has been all but slain!”

Christopher1978 on Apr 20, 2012 at 22:47:39

“Actually, the 8 page document brings many things that the sisters are doing that are not in line with being Catholic. There are some stated, such as talks about "Moving beyond the Church" or even moving beyond Jesus. They have had leadership teams that are formed to dissent against Church teaching on homosexuality and on priestly ordination. These are teachings that are not debatable. They are part of the Deposit of Faith, or (T)radition with a capital (T).

Also, you bring up conscience. If you are going to use that word, use it in a Catholic understanding. If one is not understanding a Catholic doctrine, and has ideas or feelings contrary to said doctrine, they have a duty to study that doctrine and come to a great er understanding of why the Church teaches what She teaches. The Church is the greatest bastion of reason on Earth. She explains her doctrines superbly. One just needs to avail themselves of the treasure of learning the Catholic Church provides. So, no, in the sense that you are speaking, they cannot dissent due to their conscience.”

nlightenup on Apr 20, 2012 at 22:20:43

“You have mis-read my post, suggesting I claim things in Vatican II that aren't there. Doesn't surprise me--you mis-read much. There's no evidence the Sisters have abandoned their faith. The CDF feels they don't SAY enough against cultural norms that are at odds with church teaching. They haven't been accused of outright embracing teaching counter to church teaching, only of not parroting what comes out of the USCCB. (Not all of the bishops agree with what comes out of the USCCB, so where's their muzzle?) In the teachings you cite, you left out living according to conscience. The CDF is telling Sisters that doesn't apply to them.”
Rev. James Martin Twitter Drive #WhatSistersMeanToMe Supports US Nuns

Rev. James Martin Twitter Drive #WhatSistersMeanToMe Supports US Nuns

Commented Apr 20, 2012 at 08:58:09 in Religion

“The only reason that it is "shocking" that the CDF has come down on LCWR is due to so very many years of open dissent not being dealt with. The first people to drop the ball were the local bishops, who refused to reign in dissent from those Catholic teachings which are a part of the Deposit of Faith. If the local bishops were doing their respective jobs, it would have never turned into an issue. After much more time passing without these issues being dealt with, they became deep seated. The CDF should have stepped in quite a bit earlier. So, I would say that the CDF also dropped the ball.

Now, the dissent is rooted deeply in the US Catholic Church. There is plenty of blame to go around, but finger pointing will do no good. It is time for correction. Unfortunately, it was let go for so long that those dissenters FEEL they have a "right" to do and say what they are doing and saying. They do not have a right to do what they are doing, or to say what they are saying. They are abandoning Jesus Christ, and His Bride, the Holy Catholic Church when they do so.

So, let's pray for these women, and for our Church. There is going to be some ugly backlash due to this development. We are going through some growing pains right now.”

nlightenup on Apr 20, 2012 at 14:24:03

“What a creative version of history you present.

The dissent you refer to preceded Vatican II and led to it. The Sisters who are now being "reigned [sic] in" merely embodied the scripturally-mandated changes that emerged from Vatican II. But little-t traditionalists have been having tantrums ever since, and have gained much power in church hierarchy, such that they now preach that Vatican II didn't really say what it says, and the good Sisters who have embodied it so well are in error. So while the hierarchy goes about trying to hold onto pre-Vatican II ways, including ways to keep secret priests sexually abusing little girls and boys, part of their post-Vatican II backlash is to try to put the kibosh on Sisters who are working hard to STOP sexual abuse of children, STOP human trafficking, and STOP the grinding poverty that fuels them. (Interesting how CDF refers to such actions as Sisters' being under "feminist" influences, rather than Christ's teachings--as if Jesus wouldn't be talking to people in gay bars, were he here now. CDF had to use terminology that would make what the Sisters are doing sound wrong--never mind that they're doing as Christ did.)

The church has always gone through growing pains. There has always been push and pull between those wanting to live out Christ's compassionate ministry and those who want to solidify power over others. Here's to more--especially the hierarchy--having the courage to do the former.”
Rev. James Martin Twitter Drive #WhatSistersMeanToMe Supports US Nuns

Rev. James Martin Twitter Drive #WhatSistersMeanToMe Supports US Nuns

Commented Apr 20, 2012 at 08:57:33 in Religion

“Everyone on every side is talking as if the CDF is coming down on the whole of women religious leadership in the US. This is a false representation. The LCWR are simply one "leadership group" that has been wayward for decades. There is also The Council of Major Superiors of Women Religious (CMSWR), which are very much in line with those teachings taught in the Ecumenical Councils and other infallible documents which Catholics cannot dissent against and remain truly in the Fold. The CMSWR represents religious women all over the United States. They represent over 100 communities and the CMSWR goals are stated as:
1-to establish collaboration among major superiors who desire it,
2-to serve as a channel of communication among major superiors,
3-to provide a forum for participation, dialogue, and education on the patrimony of the Church’s teaching on religious life,
4-to promote unity among major superiors, thus testifying to their union with the Magisterium and their love for Christ’s Vicar on earth, and,
5-to coordinate active cooperation with the USCCB.”

goatini on Apr 20, 2012 at 14:13:53

“Note that the LCWR refers to LEADERSHIP within the ranks of women religious.

Then note that the CMSWR refers, instead, to not just "Superiors", but "Major SUPERIORS".

Leadership is a human quality that comes from within.

Superiors are assigned, by even more "major" superiors, to carry out orders, demand obedience from their minions, and punish the disobedient.

Very telling.”
Rick Santorum Wins Over Evangelicals By Breaking With His Own Catholic Creed

Rick Santorum Wins Over Evangelicals By Breaking With His Own Catholic Creed

Commented Jan 6, 2012 at 01:30:59 in Politics

“Actually, this story is quite false. The Catholic Church allows you to believe in certain types of theistic evolution, or in 6 day creationism, just so long as you accept that Adam and Eve were real and the Fall occurred. Also, the Church does not teach that anthropomorphic climate change is now under way. The Church teaches that we are to be stewards of creation. The Church is not a scientific organization, and it does not teach science. You are either very ignorant of Church teaching, or you are a liar.”