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Closer to Reason's Comments

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The Bible Is a Library, Not a Book

The Bible Is a Library, Not a Book

Commented Aug 16, 2011 at 14:00:53 in Religion

“Why is 'your' true potential 'in' or 'of' another who you can't see, touch, hear, or smell (metaphors aside)? It's impossible to know 'your' true potential if it's dependent on someone else.”

catcountryboy on Aug 16, 2011 at 15:01:16

“He can see. He made this universe. He is all knowing. There is nothing that he don't know even before it happens. My true potential is through him guiding my way!”
huffingtonpost entry

Kanon Tipton, 4-Year-Old Preacher, Gains YouTube Fame (VIDEO)

Commented Aug 16, 2011 at 13:56:11 in Religion

“Ok. How to approach this...

This needs to stop, immediately. This child is not 'preaching' because 'preaching' implies some understanding of the the text and the ability to apply it to real life or individualized circumstances; larger concepts. This is definitely mimicking with a hint of exploitation on the part of the parents.

I'd be interested to know all of the Bible verses he 'preaches' about, though.

Imagine a world where religion wasn't introduced to children until they were teenagers...”

WCWinner on Aug 16, 2011 at 14:29:23

“If at all............”
The Bible Is a Library, Not a Book

The Bible Is a Library, Not a Book

Commented Aug 15, 2011 at 21:39:52 in Religion

“God's laws are the laws of 2,000 years ago. Otherwise, he would have explicitly outlined slavery as inhumane and unjust, and spared (at minimum) 6 million Africans from dying during the slave trade; when the Bible was used to justify much of it. "You will not keep slaves, for it is unjust and inhumane." Simple as that. But what do we get? "Treat your slaves nicely and slaves, listen to your master."

Not impressive considering the tens of millions who were either were enslaved or died.”

Gerald Brogdon on Aug 16, 2011 at 00:03:37

“One of the two commandments that is seen as the greatest, is love your neighbor as yourself. It was one of the commandments that many anti-slavery societies in the North justified for the end of slavery. In England, a devout Christian was instrumental in getting the British Empire to end slavery. The Bible was used on both sides of the issue in the US. Over time, slavery has been seen as wrong. Man and Satan throughout history have been telling God what He should do or should have done (eg. Simon the Zealot and possibly Judas & others wanted Jesus to be the political Messiah, Satan wanted that as well, James and John wanted thrones beside Jesus, Judas wanted money from perfume for the poor, etc). He passionately disavowed that course of action even telling Peter to "get behind me Satan" when he suggested He should veer from the path ahead. He did not come to set right poltical institutions. He came to restore man's relationship with God. Notice that it is man that always tries to manipulate the commandments and the Bible (eg. Who is my neighbor?, Pharisees that justified what they wanted with the law, etc.). He could have put out commandments for abortion and slavery, He could have eliminated the poor (He fed thousands), He could have eliminated sicknesses (He cured many) but He didn't. He focused on one mission - man's relationship with God. That was His priority.”
The Bible Is a Library, Not a Book

The Bible Is a Library, Not a Book

Commented Aug 15, 2011 at 21:32:06 in Religion

“And you will never know your true potential without relying on a God to help. That is what's worse.”

catcountryboy on Aug 16, 2011 at 12:43:00

“My true potential is that I have a God who cares and who is MUCH greater than me!”
The Bible Is a Library, Not a Book

The Bible Is a Library, Not a Book

Commented Aug 15, 2011 at 21:31:02 in Religion

“Yeah, it is my problem. And, why? Oh, I don't know, probably because this story is made to guilt everyone into following God. This is the (alleged) fall of mankind we're talking about here. If you're going to condemn mankind for the rest of eternity because of Adam and Eve, you bet I'm going to have an issue with the details of the story.

I'm surprised more people aren't alarmed at how this entire Eden story unfolds.”
The Bible Is a Library, Not a Book

The Bible Is a Library, Not a Book

Commented Aug 15, 2011 at 21:24:56 in Religion

“My life is absolutely full of joy and peace; without God. It can be done, believe it or not. Although I don't live my life to serve others and help others, I choose to volunteer and help others when and if I'm able to. It's working out wonderfully.”

Gerald Brogdon on Aug 16, 2011 at 00:08:13

“Thank you for your reply. I admit I am surprised by your answer. Curious, what is your motivation in volunteering and helping others?”
The Bible Is a Library, Not a Book

The Bible Is a Library, Not a Book

Commented Aug 15, 2011 at 21:23:43 in Religion

“I don't live my life to help others. I live my life for myself. During the course of my life, I help others through volunteering and variety of other ways. You can be sure that I am living my life to its fullest every day of my life. That's because I don't life my life planning for what happens to me after I die.”
The Bible Is a Library, Not a Book

The Bible Is a Library, Not a Book

Commented Aug 15, 2011 at 21:22:31 in Religion

“The tune will be a happy one, I assure you.”

Ronster1954 on Aug 17, 2011 at 10:11:24

“LOL...sure it will”
The Bible Is a Library, Not a Book

The Bible Is a Library, Not a Book

Commented Aug 15, 2011 at 17:10:02 in Religion

“My facts were straight. I was talking about what happened at the end of Genesis 19.

In terms of getting facts straight, where are you getting your facts? There is nothing in the Bible that says Moab and Ben-Ammi were banished from having anything to do with Israel. Am I missing something? If you could provide me with some facts of your own; it would be greatly appreciated.”
The Bible Is a Library, Not a Book

The Bible Is a Library, Not a Book

Commented Aug 15, 2011 at 16:53:22 in Religion

“Honestly, I think you should question your belief because, if anything, it will only make your belief stronger. The worst that can happen is that you experience doubt; then again doubt is also good.

For example, do all non-believers suffer an eternity in hell? Tribes that are discovered in regions in Asia and South America - they have never or rarely had contact with the outside world. Are they going to hell? They aren't believers.

My overall point is that if you are going to be firm in your faith, you have to discover it and question it for yourself.”

catcountryboy on Aug 16, 2011 at 12:39:52

“I have and it brings me right back to Christ! He will not come back unitl all have had a chance to believe and accept”
The Bible Is a Library, Not a Book

The Bible Is a Library, Not a Book

Commented Aug 15, 2011 at 16:39:28 in Religion

“But the story itself is so flawed. Why would anyone base a timeless concept off of a story that makes absolutely no sense.

* Eve was told that if she touches the tree, she would die. When she touches the fruit before eating it, does she die?
* Everything that the snake said would happen, actually happened. There was no temptation unless you put that kind of emotion into the dialogue. The snake told the truth.
* We don't know the true reasons as to why Eve ate the fruit. Maybe she thought the greatest compliment she could pay to God was to become more like Him. She loved God so much that she wanted to emulate him.
* Before they ate the fruit, Adam and Eve had no concept of 'good' and 'evil'. How could a threat of death from God mean anything; especially if that threat involves committing an evil act? It would mean nothing to both of them.

The creation story has served to illustrate the timeless concept of bad story-telling. Typically stories have to make sense to be illustrate a concepts but there are so many holes in this one it's impossible to take it seriously.”

gregory57 on Aug 15, 2011 at 17:28:21

“So your problem with the story of Adam and Eve is that it isn't literally believable. I bet that you complain about Biblical literalists too.

Apparently, you are too close to reason to see that there is a timeless underlying message contained in the story, which speaks to us as clearly today as it did when Jewish shepherds told it around campfires many thousands of years ago.”
The Bible Is a Library, Not a Book

The Bible Is a Library, Not a Book

Commented Aug 15, 2011 at 16:29:34 in Religion

“People who live their life by preparing for death are not living at all. I feel sorry for them.”

Gerald Brogdon on Aug 15, 2011 at 18:39:40

“Is your life full of joy and peace? Since death is the end, are you living life to the fullest? Are you squeezing everything out of life that you can? How is that working for you?”

yayahootiewhoogm on Aug 15, 2011 at 17:04:46

“That shows what you know, nothing! We live our life to help others and to show love. Everyone is going to die, your the one who's not living!”

Ronster1954 on Aug 15, 2011 at 16:45:35

“would love to hear your tune on your death bed...”
The Bible Is a Library, Not a Book

The Bible Is a Library, Not a Book

Commented Aug 15, 2011 at 16:26:08 in Religion

“Perhaps they should edit the Bible to include disclaimers regarding what is proven, unproven, fiction, non-fiction, etc. The fact of the matter is that many Christians believe what they are told when it comes to the Bible because the majority have never read the entire book and asked questions. For example, why is God fine with both destroying Sodom and Gomorrah for (alleged immorality) and Lot's two daughters getting him drunk and raping him so they can have babies in the very next chapter?

No church is going to use Lot's story during a service; nor are they going to teach it during Bible study. When you look at how the Bible is used in church, it would be interested to see what kind of usage each book/verse gets during the course of a year and what is ignored.”

Gerald Brogdon on Aug 15, 2011 at 18:26:36

“An interesting subtopic to my reply is: does God's laws change or is man's understanding of the laws change. Analogy: When my girls were very little, I told them not to cross the street without an adult helping them. What I was telling them was to be careful. They probably didn't have the capacity to understand that be careful meant to hold an adult's hand crossing the road. I believe it is the same way with us. God started us with "don't cross the road without an adult rules" and ended up telling us "to be careful". In many cases, we still "cross the roads improperly". However, did God's intentions change? No, our understanding changed as we grew. Through our lack of maturity, the few laws Adam received climbed to ten then thousands, but God wanted us to work on our motivations and not our actions and shrunk them to three (Micah 6:8) and then to two (Matthew 22:37-40). If God started out with just the two, do you think we would have understood what He meant?”

Gerald Brogdon on Aug 15, 2011 at 18:15:42

“In response to your question: "The cries of the victims in Sodom and Gomorrah are deafening; the sin of those cities is immense. I'm going down to see for myself, see if what they're doing is as bad as it sounds. Then, I'll know." Gen 18:20-21(The Message). There is no mention of any victim's cries (Lot's) in the other example of Lot's daughters raping him. This passage was preached in our church 8/7/11. Remember the timeline. Moses and the ten commandments are after this. Commands up to this time include: Populate the world (Noah and Adam), murder, not to eat meat with lifeblood still in it (Gen 9:1-7), etc. The one command that Lot and his family received was not to look back. Lot's wife did and suffered for it. It appeared that the cities violated the known laws.”

PELAGIUS2 on Aug 15, 2011 at 16:54:48

“Oh, and never heard the story about what happened after Noah planted his new vineyard in church either. LOL”

PELAGIUS2 on Aug 15, 2011 at 16:53:57

“Heck they don't even preach the prophets anymore unless it's the verses that supposedly fortell the coming of Jesus. If they did there wouldn't have been near the hullaballoo over thirty odd seconds of a Jeremiah Wright sermon. The folks having hissy fits would have known that prophets weren't called to tell the people what a good job they were doing. They were called to let folks know they'd screwed up and trouble was just over the horizon. IE get the heck of Dodge the Babylonians are coming.”

rumtmtiger on Aug 15, 2011 at 16:53:28

“I think the Bible should be considered a book. A book of fictional short stories.”

donstills on Aug 15, 2011 at 16:52:47

“The offspring from that incestuous encounter were bannished from having anything to do with Isreal. Get your facts straight before you try to do the same with the Bible.”

Don Hildenbrand on Aug 15, 2011 at 16:45:39

“Frankly, most "believers" aren't even aware that Sodom was NOT destroyed because of "gayness" even though elsewhere the Bible SPECIFICALLY states WHY Sodom was destroyed. The problem is, the REAL reason doesn't fit the political Agenda of the religious Right.”

Dee Amschler on Aug 15, 2011 at 16:37:15

“And sometimes it gets really hypocritical to the point of absurdity how they "pick and choose". I've sat through many a sermon in many a church that went on and on about how incredibly important it was for a woman to be submissive to her husband or (and this is the more correct translation) to be subjected to him - and nary a word ever spoken about how HE is supposed to treat HER, unless it was something totally made up like the idea he can "use any means he sees as necessary and appropriate to control her or to make her submit to him" (an idea in direct contrast to what the husband is told to do - love his wife as he loves himself and to love her as Christ loves his Church).”
Ron Paul 2012: Once A Fringe Candidate, Texas Congressman Now Shaping Race

Ron Paul 2012: Once A Fringe Candidate, Texas Congressman Now Shaping Race

Commented Aug 15, 2011 at 16:08:13 in Politics

“You honestly think Obama can hold a candle to Ron Paul when it comes to economics? If so, I'll skip my Kool-Aid and give it back to you.”

argentino on Aug 15, 2011 at 16:17:43

“I think that in a debate, side-by-side, Obama would completely out-shine Paul and come across much, much more "presidential"...

Romney, on the other hand is just as slick as Obama...

Want a pop-tart with that Kool-Aid?”
The Bible Is a Library, Not a Book

The Bible Is a Library, Not a Book

Commented Aug 15, 2011 at 13:03:23 in Religion

“If you care to provide your evidence, that would be great.”

sallysees on Aug 21, 2011 at 17:06:25

“you know something Close to reason, I much more prefer doing my arguing face to face without hiding behind an avatar, so I can see the other person, and then I can quickly tell if they are just blowing smoke, or if they really know what they are talking about for real?
Six months ago, if you had challenged me to bring my evidence then I would have done so without hesitation, but I have come to see that this is not the forum for any really involved Bible discussions, in fact, I doubt there is one, Christian or otherwise.
I'm replying to your comment for the sake of courtesy.”
The Bible Is a Library, Not a Book

The Bible Is a Library, Not a Book

Commented Aug 15, 2011 at 13:02:25 in Religion

“Josephus, the biographer of Herod, has NO reference of an order to kill children. Nothing. If anyone were to document this order, it would be Josephus. He has no account.

The first account of Herod's so-called "massacre" appears in Matthew 80 years after the fact. Josephus and historians throughout the ages have agreed that Herod was a ruthless person but this only supports his capacity to murder; not that he actually murdered all children under the age of two in Bethlehem and the surrounding areas. Plausibility is not historicity.

Most modern biographers of Herod will agree that the event did not take place.”
The Bible Is a Library, Not a Book

The Bible Is a Library, Not a Book

Commented Aug 15, 2011 at 12:56:26 in Religion

“Not all atheists and agnostics show up in the religion section spouting spaghetti monsters and Grimm's fairy tales. You're going to find outliers from BOTH sides of the argument.

Have I expressed anger or rage on this board? If that's what you're reading, it's only because you're putting emotions into my words that don't exist. Just because I'm an atheist doesn't mean I automatically stoop to spaghetti monsters and Grimm. I think there's a place for dialogue.”

TheyDidntListentoNoah on Aug 15, 2011 at 18:36:21

“Well that's refreshing. Kudos to you. I noticed your a Ron Paul fan as well.”
huffingtonpost entry

We Don't Talk About How We Are Going to Die

Commented Aug 15, 2011 at 12:52:02 in Religion

“I think asking what we would do in Dudley's situation is the worst possible question you could ask. We can't possibly know what Dudley is feeling emotionally, physically, psychologically. The vast majority of people reading this article don't have ALS, so to ask them to pretend they did is not a good idea. Even if we do know someone with ALS, it's not the same as actually having it.

How can people imagine themselves into a disease to make a pretend decision? I fundamentally disagree with what the author is asking us to do. We readers have absolutely no idea what it's like. Therefore, we have no right to imagine what Dudley should or should not do. We also don't have any basis to imagine what we would do.”

hp blogger Rev. Dr. Martha R. Jacobs on Aug 16, 2011 at 13:48:45

“Closer to Reason -
As I said in my posting, I am asking you to consider what you MIGHT want - not what Dudley is doing - I specifically did not want people to "judge" him - that is his right, just as it is our right to make our wishes known. What is important is having those hypothetical conversations so if something like this or any other situation arises where your family/friends have to make a decision on your behalf, that they will know what your preferences are. That is what my column is all about - getting people to have conversations about what they want done with their body as they near the end of life.”

llisa on Aug 15, 2011 at 14:03:03

“In fact, if it could be done without anyone else being arrested for it, when I reach the point where pain is the only thing keeping me aware of life, I would prefer to be put down gently by my beloved old dog's vet. I see no reason for senseless suffering, for the patient or for her loved ones.”

llisa on Aug 15, 2011 at 13:59:23

“Well, some of us do have conditions or diseases that will someday put us into a similar situation. I have relapsing/remitting MS and besides the pain and spastic muscles, besides making walking, writing, seeing, hearing, balancing, etc. difficult or impossible--sometimes the lesions are in a area of my brain that affects my breathing. There will most likely come a time when I will have to decide whether to use a ventilator. And I have already decided and put it in writing. No.”
What Is God's Job? Stephen Colbert And Rev. James Martin Discuss The Latest Poll Numbers

What Is God's Job? Stephen Colbert And Rev. James Martin Discuss The Latest Poll Numbers

Commented Aug 15, 2011 at 12:44:57 in Religion

“God could improve his numbers by actually showing up to meetings.”
Ron Paul 2012: Once A Fringe Candidate, Texas Congressman Now Shaping Race

Ron Paul 2012: Once A Fringe Candidate, Texas Congressman Now Shaping Race

Commented Aug 15, 2011 at 12:43:35 in Politics

“Once again. Read your original comment. It is not worthy of debate. It is a mindless insult; there is no substance behind it. Of course I disagree with your statement because it's based on absolutely nothing.

Here is what you are saying:
* Ron Paul is the father of Rand Paul
* Therefore, people shouldn't vote for Ron Paul

Yeah, that makes perfect sense. What was I thinking by disagreeing with you?”
The Bible Is a Library, Not a Book

The Bible Is a Library, Not a Book

Commented Aug 15, 2011 at 12:30:37 in Religion

“There is no historical evidence at all that King Herod ordered the death of all children under two years old in Bethlehem and the surrounding areas. Given the amount of people this would affect and impact it would have on the region, you would think that it would be a huge deal. But nothing.

At the same time, we're still teaching our children that King Herod, a historical figure that we know actually existed, gave the 'go ahead' for an order that never happened. Not to mention the fact that Luke has no mention of this order or Mary and Joseph's flight to Egypt.

So not only are we dealing with contradictions, we're making up history and teaching it to children. This doesn't sound like a very good idea.”

sallysees on Aug 15, 2011 at 12:52:34

“Where on earth did you get this stuff?
Ever actually did your homework.
why don't you try some of the historians of that era, Josephus for starters?
For you to sit where are and make such boldfaced statements is pure rubbish!

Although you didn't site a single reference, I for one don't need any...it wouldn't be sufficient and nothing else is, accept a very thorough historical seminar to cope with this gigantic subject.....”

WESmith on Aug 15, 2011 at 12:46:05

“Almost all of the history our children learn is not the "truth."
It is our version of the truth.
Most of what we teach our children is unverifiable.
Physics theories today are contradictory.”

Chris Hollier on Aug 15, 2011 at 12:45:12

“Interestingly enough, Herod died in 4BC, so assuming the story about him is true he would have had to given this order on, or prior to, 4BC. Luke mentions a Roman census that included Judea that caused Mary and Joseph to travel to Bethlehem. He even specified which Roman governor oversaw this census - Quirinius. Rome kept very good records, and a census was done by the Roman governor Quirinius in 6 AD, when Judea became part of the Roman empire. Prior to 6 AD it was an independent nation and was not subject to a census.

Matthew (Herod's story) says 4 BC or before.
Luke (Roman Census story) says 6 AD or after.

10 years or more apart, hardly a dependable historical account.”
The Bible Is a Library, Not a Book

The Bible Is a Library, Not a Book

Commented Aug 15, 2011 at 12:27:47 in Religion

“Because Christians refuse to challenge their beliefs or hear opposing thoughts. In essence we're helping them become better Christians or agnostics or atheists.”

TheyDidntListentoNoah on Aug 15, 2011 at 12:49:24

“That's all fine and dandy but what does showing up to make snide remarks about Grimm's fables or the flying spaghetti monster have to do with serious discussion? A lot of what I see on the religion forum doesn't rise much beyond that level.

Do you actually have a desire to sincerely engage with someone of the Christian faith or is your motive to vent your anger and rage toward what you see as the injustices of Christianity.”
Ron Paul 2012: Once A Fringe Candidate, Texas Congressman Now Shaping Race

Ron Paul 2012: Once A Fringe Candidate, Texas Congressman Now Shaping Race

Commented Aug 15, 2011 at 12:20:39 in Politics

“And how is your original comment worthy of debate? Exactly, it's not. It's an immature insult with no purpose. Second of all, you're doing the exact same thing behind the safety of your keyboard; glass houses.”

SPAIN62 on Aug 15, 2011 at 12:32:18

“In other words anyone who disagrees with you should stay quiet, typical right-wing arrogance. As for my original comment/bon mot, if you cannot see or understand something that is obvious to so many people, then you should go back and do some research on both men and cease being so defensive?”
Ron Paul 2012: Once A Fringe Candidate, Texas Congressman Now Shaping Race

Ron Paul 2012: Once A Fringe Candidate, Texas Congressman Now Shaping Race

Commented Aug 15, 2011 at 12:10:23 in Politics

“What? That he gave his son a name?”

Charles Vanderbilt on Aug 15, 2011 at 13:23:32

“It looks like he's shaping something else. ChuckV”
Ron Paul 2012: Once A Fringe Candidate, Texas Congressman Now Shaping Race

Ron Paul 2012: Once A Fringe Candidate, Texas Congressman Now Shaping Race

Commented Aug 15, 2011 at 12:07:09 in Politics

“I would expect this kind of argument from someone in the 8th grade.”

SPAIN62 on Aug 15, 2011 at 12:17:37

“I would expect this type of response from someone who lobs puerile insults at a fellow Huffy behind the safety of his keyboard instead of debating, how brave of you...”

XM202 on Aug 15, 2011 at 12:14:11

“thats because an 8th grader outsmarts every republican candidate.”
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