“I also thought a good place for a statue of him would be somewhere around the Carter Gin, where he fell... The statue was erected finally only six months ago in October 2012. The essay collection was edited by Mauriel Joslyn who was the head of the Patrick Cleburne Society. It didn't print a lot of copies, but I'm sure it's locatable. Anyway, always happy when I find someone who appreciates the great man Pat Cleburne was. (Off topic, but it's also nice to have a Hardee flag license plate. You don't get accused of being a racist everywhere you go since nobody recognizes it. That way you can pay homage to your heroes and be left in peace!)”
Liberty Again on May 11, 2013 at 02:23:31
“Thanks. That's clever as Cleburne and it's a pretty flag too. And I agree that the place on the field of Franklin for his statue would be there, where the greatest penetration of the Union lines occurred as well. Heavy fighting there. Franklin could still be saved as a battlefield but the economy is so bad and the government has so little money, the land very expensive there too. But that was where the entire Nashville Campaign was lost really. Those 6,000 Hood left on the field might have made a difference, as would have Cleburne -- or for that matter Forrest, whom Hood sent on a useless raid to Murfreesboro during the siege of Nashville. Always a pleasure to talk the war. There's another buff on here by the avatar name Salamanca who is also a knowledgeable buff and a Cleburne fan as well. Take care. ”
“The statue is in his adopted home of Helena, Arkansas. I also have Five Tragic Hours. There is also an essay collection about him called "A Meteor Shining Brightly," and a bio called "The Stonewall of the West." Both good books.”
Liberty Again on May 10, 2013 at 19:13:10
“Thanks. I've read THE STONEWALL OF THE WEST and enjoyed it much. I'll try to find the collection on him, sounds interesting. There should maybe be a statue at Franklin too but Helena is fine as he had a great deal of affection for his adopted home. I suspected that's where it would be. When was it erected?”
“Absolutely. I don't know if the Patrick Cleburne Society is still around, but in 1999 I was the only member in Arizona. I was also a starving undergrad so unfortunately I was never able to get out to any of the meetings, or participate in the fund drives for his statue.My detour to Franklin while I moved cross country to D.C. after school was an amazing experience.”
Liberty Again on May 10, 2013 at 15:51:01
“I came to appreciate Cleburne from reading histories of the Army of Tennessee and its battles. I grew up in Nashville and have walked the Franklin Battlefield many times. One of the histories of the battle is very correct it was "Five Tragic Hours." I'm a student of military history. You won't believe the numbers of folks who think my avatar picture is Forrest and then call me a racist. I admire Cleburne for many reasons but his genius as a commander is the main one. He never failed to hold a position he was ordered to hold and only rarely failed to take one he was ordered to take. He & his division stopped Sherman cold at Tunnel Hill in 1863. A great man. He deserves a statue. Did they or are they going to erect it in Arkansas?”
“This is actually nothing new. Arizonans have always been very passionate about immigration, and John McCain isn't an Arizonan.
I've tried to explain this to a lot of people before, that the biggest thing driving opposition to letting millions of illegal immigrants settle here in Arizona is their cost. We're a poor state, we couldn't foot a bill like Los Angeles County who spends something to the tune of 100 million dollars a month on benefits to illegal immigrants. (I think California spends total 6 or 7 billion).
If you take the issue of immigration and guns off the table, Arizona is actually a pretty 'purple' state like anywhere else.”
“Unfortunately once they gave them to Customs they'd just turn them around and cut them loose. Arizona has done some great work here in the past decade or so, and I think fact that we have the 8th largest illegal population even though we're on the border is a testament to that. You'd figure we'd have ratios as high as California and Texas, but Arizona's policies have largely been centred around making illegal immigrants uncomfortable trying to settle in here. If the federal government would just get out of our way we could be deporting hundreds of thousands every year. Oh well.”
“No, you're right. There are 11 million holders of MDs, DDS's, PhD's, and advanced degrees in physics working the construction sites and lettuce fields in America right now. Without them here, we'd be in the dark ages. Living in Arizona and working for the Dept of Education I have no insight into how the immigrants hold no value what so ever for education, and encourage their kids to drop out as soon as they turn 16. (Compulsory education in Mexico ends at the US equivalent of 6th grade, so they think most years after that are wasted time that could be better spent working).”
“Yes, there are already plenty of unmanned surveillance mechanisms on the border. When I was at Fort Huachuca in 2003 there was even a stationary object tethered to the ground with a cable that looked a lot like a blimp, pointing south.”