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Vaccine Tested In Fight Against Tainted Beef
Commented Dec 04, 2009 at 16:44:09 in Living
“I agree that over-use of antibiotics is an issue of relevance. Vaccinating them is an effective solution that rectifies the problem without the potential for resistant strains to emerge.”
nvmac replied on Dec 04, 2009 at 22:00:57
“I agree with you too that vaccines are one effective solution - the idea that a vaccine in itself would create a health risk in humans is preposterous. The only risk I can think of is that people might wrongly assume that the vaccine would result in animals *free* of pathogenic hemolytic E. coli. (BTW - don't you wish that folks would more accurately refer to it as E. coli 0157:H7? Few characters, *big* difference
Vaccine Tested In Fight Against Tainted Beef
Commented Dec 04, 2009 at 16:42:25 in Living
“Re-read your reference. The authors examined the flora after an abrupt/acute change in diet of in one strain of acid-resistant e.coli. This does not support your initial claims.”
Vaccine Tested In Fight Against Tainted Beef
Commented Dec 04, 2009 at 16:31:09 in Living
“"I am assuming they will not even bother to test the health concerns associated with eating meat form a vaccinated animal "
What's the problem? Why would anyone want to look? As if antibodies, formed through normal immune processes are not going to degrade like other proteins during digestion. You suggest an issue where one doesn't exist.”
What's the problem? Why would anyone want to look? As if antibodies, formed through normal immune processes are not going to degrade like other proteins during digestion. You suggest an issue where one doesn't exist.”
TakeSake replied on Dec 05, 2009 at 00:24:10
“"What's the problem? Why would anyone want to look?"
Well, for one, suppose a few of the e.coli bacteria don't get stopped by the immune system due to some mutation. Such a strain could then become resistant to human immune systems as well.
It's a silly notion, I know. After all, nothing bad ever happened from using antibiotics. And all the other drugs and additives - they are perfectly safe. The FDA and the PDR said so.”
Well, for one, suppose a few of the e.coli bacteria don't get stopped by the immune system due to some mutation. Such a strain could then become resistant to human immune systems as well.
It's a silly notion, I know. After all, nothing bad ever happened from using antibiotics. And all the other drugs and additives - they are perfectly safe. The FDA and the PDR said so.”
nvmac replied on Dec 04, 2009 at 16:40:32
“That's right. EliminateVariables shouldn't eliminate distinctions among human practices of real value, such as vaccines, versus questionable ones like factory farming. Definitely an overreaction to the sensational headline (which wasn't the original headline when the story first appeared). But I have t agree with EliminateVariables that the problem really is factory farming where antibiotic overuse contributes to antibiotic resistance in these pathogens. But the vaccine isn't a bad idea, just not the best idea. It is the agricultural practice of feedlots that should end.”
Vaccine Tested In Fight Against Tainted Beef
Commented Dec 04, 2009 at 15:15:39 in Living
“"Because it's the "easy" way for the industrial food complex to fix the problem"
Can you tell us how to remove ubiquitous bacteria from the environment then? This can get you the Nobel Prize.
"Sure fire way not to get sick? Stop eating meat "
Right, because we all know that fruit and vegetables never contain food-borne pathogens.
http://www
Can you tell us how to remove ubiquitous bacteria from the environment then? This can get you the Nobel Prize.
"Sure fire way not to get sick? Stop eating meat "
Right, because we all know that fruit and vegetables never contain food-borne pathogens.
http://www
nvmac replied on Dec 04, 2009 at 22:04:52
“But those pathogens come from *animals* in the first place, such as by irrigation or production water contaminated by runoff from areas where animals are raised, or from humans who are ill. Recall an unnamed juice company - there was animal waste running into a water source related to the juice production. The pathogens are just surviving on the plant products, not originating there.”
TheGhostOfHowardBeale replied on Dec 04, 2009 at 17:16:07
“A cherry picking troll... how nice. Do you happen to work for Smithfield? Tyson?
Stopping the practices which provide a ripe environment for the bacteria to spread easily would be a lot better than pumping more chemicals into the food humans consume.
Overcrowded feedlots, slaughterhouses with no public oversight or control (thanks to industry lobbying which has left the FDA with zero authority to protect the public)...
And hey - feel free to keep eating that stuff...”
Stopping the practices which provide a ripe environment for the bacteria to spread easily would be a lot better than pumping more chemicals into the food humans consume.
Overcrowded feedlots, slaughterhouses with no public oversight or control (thanks to industry lobbying which has left the FDA with zero authority to protect the public)...
And hey - feel free to keep eating that stuff...”
Vaccine Tested In Fight Against Tainted Beef
Commented Dec 04, 2009 at 14:59:54 in Living
“"We should be addressing what causes the E. coli to show up in the first place "
It is a ubiquitous life form. It is everywhere.
"Filthy factory farms and feeding cows--natural grass-eaters--corn, which makes them ill, are a big part of the issue. Eat grass-fed beef instead, and you'll likely not be getting contaminated meat."
Do you have any evidence, whatsoever, that supports this claim? Where are the studies that show grass-fed beef has fewer bacterial infections that farmed or corn-fed beef. I cannot find any study that and corroborate your claim. It sounds more like something you want to believe based on your world-view, not something we can accept based on facts.”
It is a ubiquitous life form. It is everywhere.
"Filthy factory farms and feeding cows--natural grass-eaters--corn, which makes them ill, are a big part of the issue. Eat grass-fed beef instead, and you'll likely not be getting contaminated meat."
Do you have any evidence, whatsoever, that supports this claim? Where are the studies that show grass-fed beef has fewer bacterial infections that farmed or corn-fed beef. I cannot find any study that and corroborate your claim. It sounds more like something you want to believe based on your world-view, not something we can accept based on facts.”
jennifer s replied on Dec 04, 2009 at 15:34:00
“"Eating grass-fed beef may lower your risk of E. coli infection
When you eat grass-fed meat, you may have a lower risk of becoming infected with dangerous E. coli bacteria.
Why is this? Work conducted at Cornell University by Russell and Diez-Gonzalez in the late 1990s showed that cattle that were fed hay had far fewer E. coli than when they were fed a standard feedlot diet based on grain. (Microbes Infect 2, No. 1 (2000): 45-53.)"
http://www
When you eat grass-fed meat, you may have a lower risk of becoming infected with dangerous E. coli bacteria.
Why is this? Work conducted at Cornell University by Russell and Diez-Gonzalez in the late 1990s showed that cattle that were fed hay had far fewer E. coli than when they were fed a standard feedlot diet based on grain. (Microbes Infect 2, No. 1 (2000): 45-53.)"
http://www
Scientific Link To Autism Identified
Commented Nov 24, 2009 at 16:33:34 in Living
isjois replied on Nov 24, 2009 at 20:27:06
“All vaccines have risks.
Just read the vaccine inserts - from Pharma - that disclose some of them.
Many of us are fighting for informed consent. We want people to be told that all vaccines come with risks. We want people to be taken seriously when they're suffering a vaccine reaction.”
Just read the vaccine inserts - from Pharma - that disclose some of them.
Many of us are fighting for informed consent. We want people to be told that all vaccines come with risks. We want people to be taken seriously when they're suffering a vaccine reaction.”
Scientific Link To Autism Identified
Commented Nov 24, 2009 at 14:29:17 in Living
“I cannot find any study that even suggests that the pertusis vaccine causes autism. But you found an essay written by...who is this guy again?....
http://www
http://www
http://aut
http://www
http://arc
http://lin
http://www
http://www
http://aut
http://www
http://arc
http://lin
Hydra8 replied on Nov 25, 2009 at 00:49:30
“Mercury and aluminum do not belong in the human body. End of arguments.”
Josephius replied on Nov 24, 2009 at 16:36:16
“Autism was not reported until the advent of the atomic bomb. Before the atomic bomb, there was no autism described. THEREFORE, autism is caused by atomic bombs.
Show me the study that shows atomic bombs are not the cause of autism.
This is like debating with a 3 year old.”
Show me the study that shows atomic bombs are not the cause of autism.
This is like debating with a 3 year old.”
isjois replied on Nov 24, 2009 at 14:40:51
“Provide a link proving there was autism before the introduction of the pertussis vaccine.
Your links talk solely about the whooping cough vaccine. They don't prove that there was "autism" prior to that vaccine.”
Your links talk solely about the whooping cough vaccine. They don't prove that there was "autism" prior to that vaccine.”
Scientific Link To Autism Identified
Commented Nov 24, 2009 at 13:34:52 in Living
“Uh huh. Right.
We have the body of work we call science that says one thing.....
.....or your guy, who apparently has the inside scoop on reality:
http://www
We have the body of work we call science that says one thing.....
.....or your guy, who apparently has the inside scoop on reality:
http://www
Dyson replied on Nov 24, 2009 at 14:07:03
“No room for any autism NOT caused by vaccines? Appears not.
Wow!
Evil vaccine stuff. Really powerful. Can cause autism even before it was invented, and in those who have never had a shot.”
Wow!
Evil vaccine stuff. Really powerful. Can cause autism even before it was invented, and in those who have never had a shot.”
isjois replied on Nov 24, 2009 at 13:38:25
“Argue away -
no whooping cough vaccine - no autism
whooping cough vaccine - autism
GO!!!”
no whooping cough vaccine - no autism
whooping cough vaccine - autism
GO!!!”
isjois replied on Nov 24, 2009 at 13:37:37
“OH - did your body of work you call "science" disclose the vaccinators "real cause" of autism today?!?
Has HuffPo not published this info yet? Sounds groundbreaking - can't believe it's not on the opening screen:
"Science announces autism's (real) cause."
LOL!”
Has HuffPo not published this info yet? Sounds groundbreaking - can't believe it's not on the opening screen:
"Science announces autism's (real) cause."
LOL!”
Scientific Link To Autism Identified
Commented Nov 24, 2009 at 13:32:27 in Living
“"We're talking about lots of money."
You didn't answer the question. You didn't look....yo
You choose to be ignorant..
All we know about immunology has been a lie, according to you. We actually know nothing about biology, chemistry.
Yeah, that makes sense.”
You didn't answer the question. You didn't look....yo
You choose to be ignorant..
All we know about immunology has been a lie, according to you. We actually know nothing about biology, chemistry.
Yeah, that makes sense.”
Scientific Link To Autism Identified
Commented Nov 24, 2009 at 13:20:09 in Living
“http://www
http://www
http://www
http://con
http://jou
http://lin
http://arc
http://www
http://www
http://con
http://jou
http://lin
http://arc
Dyson replied on Dec 04, 2009 at 12:54:23
“Fantastic link, josephius!
I see isjois (who was the one who asked) hasn't responded, and as I doubt any of the other antivaccination mob will read them, I'll summarise:
Studies done looking at autistic children confirm (by observers blinded to the child's subsequent diagnosis) that the neurodevelopmental characteristics are evident before the child's first birthday. This means vaccines like MMR are not the cause of the autism.”
I see isjois (who was the one who asked) hasn't responded, and as I doubt any of the other antivaccination mob will read them, I'll summarise:
Studies done looking at autistic children confirm (by observers blinded to the child's subsequent diagnosis) that the neurodevelopmental characteristics are evident before the child's first birthday. This means vaccines like MMR are not the cause of the autism.”
Hydra8 replied on Nov 25, 2009 at 00:33:01
“I guess all those scientific reports -are not scientific enough for the scientists to believe their own scientific reports.
LOL.
Frankenscience that is. What a waste of an education on a empty mind.”
LOL.
Frankenscience that is. What a waste of an education on a empty mind.”
isjois replied on Nov 24, 2009 at 14:50:19
“Where are the studies of the autistic kids and typical kids who were never vaccinated?
The Hep B is either given at birth or within the first two months of life. The DTaP is given beginning at two months....
With pregnant women - or even just "teenage" and "women of childbearing age" - being loaded up with various vaccines..
The Hep B is either given at birth or within the first two months of life. The DTaP is given beginning at two months....
With pregnant women - or even just "teenage" and "women of childbearing age" - being loaded up with various vaccines..
Scientific Link To Autism Identified
Commented Nov 24, 2009 at 13:14:41 in Living
“Your claim: "Vitamin A supplementation prevents measles infection, complications and mortality.
The claim of the authors' that you cited: "We found no evidence that a single dose of 200,000 IU of vitamin A was associated with reduced mortality among children with measles"”
The claim of the authors' that you cited: "We found no evidence that a single dose of 200,000 IU of vitamin A was associated with reduced mortality among children with measles"”
isjois replied on Nov 24, 2009 at 14:36:42
“Dyson - All vaccines - incl. measles - carry risks. Just read the vaccine inserts.
People don't require vaccines for a healthy immune system - but, they do require vitamin A to be a healthy person:
"Vitamin A is essential for the functioning of the immune system and the healthy growth and development of children."
"There is a well-established scientific basis for the treatment of measles cases with vitamin A supplementation that is recommended by WHO as part of the integrated management of childhood illness. "
http://www
People don't require vaccines for a healthy immune system - but, they do require vitamin A to be a healthy person:
"Vitamin A is essential for the functioning of the immune system and the healthy growth and development of children."
"There is a well-established scientific basis for the treatment of measles cases with vitamin A supplementation that is recommended by WHO as part of the integrated management of childhood illness. "
http://www
isjois replied on Nov 24, 2009 at 14:24:43
“"We investigated the presence of the measles virus genome in order to identify asymptomatic infections in the adult population
"We conclude that asymptomatic infections of measles virus are common in adults and the presence of the measles virus genome would not be related to the pathogenesis of illness."
http://www
People exposed to measles - who don't get symptoms!
Who would have thought such a thing is possible?!?”
"We conclude that asymptomatic infections of measles virus are common in adults and the presence of the measles virus genome would not be related to the pathogenesis of illness."
http://www
People exposed to measles - who don't get symptoms!
Who would have thought such a thing is possible?!?”
Dyson replied on Nov 24, 2009 at 14:18:29
“A dose of measles vaccine costs a few cents, and will actually prevent ALL the problems, not just maybe, slightly mitigate their effects.”
Dyson replied on Nov 24, 2009 at 14:17:06
“2 doses had an effect, but not a statistically significant one.
At best, the effects seems to be very marginal, and not deserving of your incorrect headline "Vitamin A supplementation prevents measles infection, complications and mortality", when it has no effect on prevention, and marginal effects on complicati
At best, the effects seems to be very marginal, and not deserving of your incorrect headline "Vitamin A supplementation prevents measles infection, complications and mortality", when it has no effect on prevention, and marginal effects on complicati
isjois replied on Nov 24, 2009 at 13:23:14
“Read it again.
"...two doses of 200 000 IU of vitamin A..."
It's really worth the small cost of an extra dose to protect human beings from measles and it's rare complications.”
"...two doses of 200 000 IU of vitamin A..."
It's really worth the small cost of an extra dose to protect human beings from measles and it's rare complications.”
Scientific Link To Autism Identified
Commented Nov 24, 2009 at 13:12:20 in Living
“That's a sad commentary on people (and reflects more on the kind of person you are than anything).
The people in the "vaccine industry". How many is that? What about doctors? Scientists? Public health specialists? People who went into medical science to help mankind...
Yea...like I said. This comment says more about you than anything.
Isjois, do you even know what the margins are on vaccines? How much money (be precise) are we talking about?”
The people in the "vaccine industry". How many is that? What about doctors? Scientists? Public health specialists? People who went into medical science to help mankind...
Yea...like I said. This comment says more about you than anything.
Isjois, do you even know what the margins are on vaccines? How much money (be precise) are we talking about?”
isjois replied on Nov 24, 2009 at 13:44:45
“Josephius - really. It's your fight - how much money is involved in the vaccine industry. You go find the answer and report back to us with it. I don't require a certain dollar threshhold of profits to justify all the lives lost and ruined by vaccines. Too many have been harmed to justify this practice.
Once you start name-calling and misquoting me - you just sound irrational. I have never discounted ALL OF SCIENCE. I just think there hasn't been appropriate science applied to the issue of vaccines.
When your science is performed by those who have a vested interest in the vaccine program - it's not valid. There is profit involved. People need to earn a living to support their families. Didn't you watch CSI Miami last night?”
Once you start name-calling and misquoting me - you just sound irrational. I have never discounted ALL OF SCIENCE. I just think there hasn't been appropriate science applied to the issue of vaccines.
When your science is performed by those who have a vested interest in the vaccine program - it's not valid. There is profit involved. People need to earn a living to support their families. Didn't you watch CSI Miami last night?”
isjois replied on Nov 24, 2009 at 13:33:57
“"Sabin's oral polio vaccine was tested in the USSR."
It may have been tested in the USSR...but
It may have been tested in the USSR...but
Josephius replied on Nov 24, 2009 at 13:32:27
“"We're talking about lots of money."
You didn't answer the question. You didn't look....yo
You choose to be ignorant..
All we know about immunology has been a lie, according to you. We actually know nothing about biology, chemistry.
Yeah, that makes sense.”
You didn't answer the question. You didn't look....yo
You choose to be ignorant..
All we know about immunology has been a lie, according to you. We actually know nothing about biology, chemistry.
Yeah, that makes sense.”
Sheldon101 replied on Nov 24, 2009 at 13:23:40
“If you're American, as I suspect, then you're so provincial, says the man who lives in one.
Because the conspiracy is world wide and goes back decades. Sabin's oral polio vaccine was tested in the USSR.
Today, public health officials everywhere* want at least part of their population vaccinated against H1N1.
Flu Vaccination: The conspiracy goes to back WWII.
*includes Poland”
Because the conspiracy is world wide and goes back decades. Sabin's oral polio vaccine was tested in the USSR.
Today, public health officials everywhere* want at least part of their population vaccinated against H1N1.
Flu Vaccination: The conspiracy goes to back WWII.
*includes Poland”
isjois replied on Nov 24, 2009 at 13:21:15
“We're talking about lots of money.
And you make the people in the vaccine industry sound much worse than I ever do. I give them an easy out - "they have to earn a living to support their own families". There's little judgement there. It's very factual. And - yes - I do think their "choice" is immoral; however, it's the rare soul who is never asked to compromise on his/her morals in the workplace.
Remember - we all sin. We all make mistakes.
The "screwing up" isn't so much the issue - it's the denial that bothers me.”
And you make the people in the vaccine industry sound much worse than I ever do. I give them an easy out - "they have to earn a living to support their own families". There's little judgement there. It's very factual. And - yes - I do think their "choice" is immoral; however, it's the rare soul who is never asked to compromise on his/her morals in the workplace.
Remember - we all sin. We all make mistakes.
The "screwing up" isn't so much the issue - it's the denial that bothers me.”
Scientific Link To Autism Identified
Commented Nov 24, 2009 at 13:09:14 in Living
“Great model. You've just made a model based on what again? Parts of news stories and guesses?”
Scientific Link To Autism Identified
Commented Nov 24, 2009 at 13:08:03 in Living
“Why don't you look and find out for yourself (instead of asking a question, then remaining ignorant of the answer just so you don't have to deal with the answer).”
isjois replied on Nov 24, 2009 at 13:14:42
“LOL....You clearly get what I'm going to argue - so, you attempt to distract and confuse. "Look at the shiny object...l
Come on - you know anyone can look at a video of someone with autism and say "Look - there - that newborn is clearly displaying autistic behavior" - after the person has been diagnosed with autism.
I'd like you to provide the peer reviewed scientific studies of video comparing and contrasting children who have autism AND are neurotypical. Let's see the studies that say the "typical" kids never displayed any autistic tendencies. Where are the video reviews of both groups of children - prior to any vaccines being administered? LOL!!!”
Come on - you know anyone can look at a video of someone with autism and say "Look - there - that newborn is clearly displaying autistic behavior" - after the person has been diagnosed with autism.
I'd like you to provide the peer reviewed scientific studies of video comparing and contrasting children who have autism AND are neurotypical. Let's see the studies that say the "typical" kids never displayed any autistic tendencies. Where are the video reviews of both groups of children - prior to any vaccines being administered? LOL!!!”
Scientific Link To Autism Identified
Commented Nov 24, 2009 at 10:28:53 in Living
“"hen the parents of these harmed children finally start seeing some inkling of justice do you think the public will be forgiving to those who attacked and demonized these parents?"
Be careful! If deaths and disability ensue from unimmunized children, public opinion will easily sway with the body of scientific evidence and the overwhelming number of experts in this field as opposed to a fringe group. Yes, lawyers will be waiting on both sides, waiting too believe/help who ever they can.
As if all of these same people you are accusing of causing ill on other people do not have families of their own. Same on you!”
Be careful! If deaths and disability ensue from unimmunized children, public opinion will easily sway with the body of scientific evidence and the overwhelming number of experts in this field as opposed to a fringe group. Yes, lawyers will be waiting on both sides, waiting too believe/help who ever they can.
As if all of these same people you are accusing of causing ill on other people do not have families of their own. Same on you!”
isjois replied on Nov 24, 2009 at 12:20:06
“"As if all of these same people you are accusing of causing ill on other people do not have families of their own."
You and I agree on something. I've said for the longest that people involved in the vaccine industry WON'T admit fault because they need to earn a living to support their own families. Most are willing to sacrifice their morals for money.”
You and I agree on something. I've said for the longest that people involved in the vaccine industry WON'T admit fault because they need to earn a living to support their own families. Most are willing to sacrifice their morals for money.”
Scientific Link To Autism Identified
Commented Nov 24, 2009 at 10:25:25 in Living
“"What do you say to all those parents who say their kids were progressing normally up until they got a vaccine shot?"
If their story was similar, I'd be amazed. What does amaze me is the differences in their anecdotes (other than they were 'normal' then after (ambiguous time frame) they were not). When experts in autism and developmental disorders look at old home movies (pre-immunizations) they can see that they are displaying traits typical in children with autism. These parents do not know and have not been trained in identifying the progressive stages as the disorder ensues. For example, children born with an extra chromosome 21 will look and develop normally, but eventually deteriorate in specific cognitive functions (Downs Syndrome). We know it is a whole chromosome (easy to see with a microscope), but until recently, we have been able to see small extra pieces/missing segments of some chromosomes that have a similar progression through development.
There are maybe 100 disorders that occur over time. Look at schizophrenia. Or sickle cell anemia. People age, we develop, we employ and shut down various sets of genes. It is no different with autism. Look into copy number variants and stage-specific gene expression.”
If their story was similar, I'd be amazed. What does amaze me is the differences in their anecdotes (other than they were 'normal' then after (ambiguous time frame) they were not). When experts in autism and developmental disorders look at old home movies (pre-immunizations) they can see that they are displaying traits typical in children with autism. These parents do not know and have not been trained in identifying the progressive stages as the disorder ensues. For example, children born with an extra chromosome 21 will look and develop normally, but eventually deteriorate in specific cognitive functions (Downs Syndrome). We know it is a whole chromosome (easy to see with a microscope), but until recently, we have been able to see small extra pieces/missing segments of some chromosomes that have a similar progression through development.
There are maybe 100 disorders that occur over time. Look at schizophrenia. Or sickle cell anemia. People age, we develop, we employ and shut down various sets of genes. It is no different with autism. Look into copy number variants and stage-specific gene expression.”
nicholasjh1 replied on Nov 24, 2009 at 12:27:14
“What is your point? Obviously Autism doesn't happen to most kids that take vaccines, and just as obviously it is genetically linked, and just as obviously this study has proved that there is a metabolic pathway that causes autism. What does Occams razor say? that some people are genetically vulnerable to an imbalance in this metabolic pathway because they do not break down extra amounts properly when injected and an immune response is caused, probably the extra glycine in the foods only makes it worse.”
isjois replied on Nov 24, 2009 at 12:17:09
“"When experts in autism and developmental disorders look at old home movies (pre-immunizations) they can see that they are displaying traits typical in children with autism."
Do the experts review home movies of kids with autism AND typical kids too? Do the experts know that the child they're observing in the movies has autism?”
Do the experts review home movies of kids with autism AND typical kids too? Do the experts know that the child they're observing in the movies has autism?”
Scientific Link To Autism Identified
Commented Nov 24, 2009 at 10:16:48 in Living
“It is. Key point...do
Does anyone know what primary source material is?”
Does anyone know what primary source material is?”
Scientific Link To Autism Identified
Commented Nov 23, 2009 at 16:37:22 in Living
“This new revolutionary model...wh
Shady!
Their office:
http://map
Look like a research center to you?”
Shady!
Their office:
http://map
Look like a research center to you?”
Scientific Link To Autism Identified
Commented Nov 23, 2009 at 16:17:38 in Living
“Very funny! I always love any group that releases information about their "research" through the lay media and not through peer-reviewed scientific publications. I'm glad I took the time to try and find any publication specific to this report, or from the authors. Low and behold, what did I find? Nothing. Nada, zilch. Only the news report and their website http://www
What a surprise.
I cannot wait to hear how gelatin (collagen.
What a surprise.
I cannot wait to hear how gelatin (collagen.
Hydra8 replied on Nov 25, 2009 at 00:45:09
“The only thing lame is a scientists brain. You using that work "antecdotal again too" . What a joke - all the pharm shills use that phrase.”
ChildHealthSafety replied on Nov 24, 2009 at 07:01:41
“Looks like you don't read too good, saying:-
"I always love any group that releases information about their "research" through the lay media"
Medical News Today - does not sound like the "lay media" to me.”
"I always love any group that releases information about their "research" through the lay media"
Medical News Today - does not sound like the "lay media" to me.”
Josephius replied on Nov 23, 2009 at 16:37:22
“This new revolutionary model...wh
Shady!
Their office:
http://map
Look like a research center to you?”
Shady!
Their office:
http://map
Look like a research center to you?”
Does The Flu Vaccine Matter?
Commented Nov 16, 2009 at 21:52:25 in Living
“Since the topic addressed in the Atlantic article deals with pandemic flu, not seasonal flu, the public health implications are considerable. The 1918 pandemic flu is brought up because it is an extreme example of what can happen during a pandemic. Other pandemics through history can also be examined to understand the differences. Yes, it is true that modern medical technologies, including antibiotics, will help lower the rate of deaths caused by influenza's contributory role, but it will occur at a severe strain on an already health care system.
Given that an estimated 36,000 U.S. citizens die in a seasonal flu year may not seem like a big deal to some. However, pandemic situations tend to illustrate just how deadly influenza can be. Perhaps you don't personally know many who have died, or your patients may not know of any either, but they are out there. Perhaps a cursory review of stories presented in the news (internet) might be useful. So far, only about 1 month into flu season, we've seen just under 600 deaths of children. As a reminder, the total number for any given 12 month influenza year kills around 175. I would wonder if anyone who reads a story that lead-based toys had killed 10 children would just dismiss those lives so easily as they have been doing here with an infectious disease. It seems that the needles, possibly preventable loss of life isn't a priority when it conflicts with our personal views on immunization.”
Given that an estimated 36,000 U.S. citizens die in a seasonal flu year may not seem like a big deal to some. However, pandemic situations tend to illustrate just how deadly influenza can be. Perhaps you don't personally know many who have died, or your patients may not know of any either, but they are out there. Perhaps a cursory review of stories presented in the news (internet) might be useful. So far, only about 1 month into flu season, we've seen just under 600 deaths of children. As a reminder, the total number for any given 12 month influenza year kills around 175. I would wonder if anyone who reads a story that lead-based toys had killed 10 children would just dismiss those lives so easily as they have been doing here with an infectious disease. It seems that the needles, possibly preventable loss of life isn't a priority when it conflicts with our personal views on immunization.”
Does The Flu Vaccine Matter?
Commented Nov 16, 2009 at 12:49:23 in Living
“What are the profit margins for vaccines? How much is the "sure bet profit"?
Are you just saying this, or have you actually taken the time to look them up?
http://con
http://www
http://www
Are you just saying this, or have you actually taken the time to look them up?
http://con
http://www
http://www
Does The Flu Vaccine Matter?
Commented Nov 16, 2009 at 12:29:11 in Living
drricklippin replied on Nov 16, 2009 at 17:33:06
“FACT- Generally Influenza is a self limiting non fatal disease with no permant sequela.
The 35,000 annual "deaths" from seasonal flu is a CDC estimate and is usually in the frail and elderly by CDC's own admission. Flu is contributory here -not causal.
Constantly bringing up the "inevitability" of 1918-20 pandemic is not useful. This was a pre-antibiotic era. And many people died then of secondary bacterial infection
I always ask my patients "have you ever met anyone who died of the flu?"
Dr. Rick Lippin
Spouthampton,Pa”
The 35,000 annual "deaths" from seasonal flu is a CDC estimate and is usually in the frail and elderly by CDC's own admission. Flu is contributory here -not causal.
Constantly bringing up the "inevitability" of 1918-20 pandemic is not useful. This was a pre-antibiotic era. And many people died then of secondary bacterial infection
I always ask my patients "have you ever met anyone who died of the flu?"
Dr. Rick Lippin
Spouthampton,Pa”
Does The Flu Vaccine Matter?
Commented Nov 15, 2009 at 15:38:55 in Living
“Your first link:
"AUTHORS' CONCLUSIONS: Influenza vaccines are efficacious in children older than two years but little evidence is available for children under two. There was a marked difference between vaccine efficacy and effectiveness. That no safety comparisons could be carried out emphasizes the need for standardisation of methods and presentation of vaccine safety data in future studies. "
They report 79% efficacy, again, for use of seasonal flu vaccines (when strain has to be predicted, not when it is verified as in a pandemic strain, where >97% efficacy rates can be accomplished).
Your second link :" OBJECTIVES: To evaluate unrecognized confounding by hypothesizing the presence of a 50% mortality reduction with vaccination for patients with pneumonia outside of influenza season. CONCLUSIONS: The 51% reduction in mortality with vaccination initially observed in patients with pneumonia who did not have influenza was most likely a result of confounding. Previous observational studies may have overestimated mortality benefits of influenza vaccinatio
Why did you post this link?
Same with your third link...a population -based nested case control study for seasonal flu.
Again, why did you pick this out?
Why don't you review these since they are relevant to the discussion:
http://sch
"AUTHORS' CONCLUSIONS: Influenza vaccines are efficacious in children older than two years but little evidence is available for children under two. There was a marked difference between vaccine efficacy and effectiveness. That no safety comparisons could be carried out emphasizes the need for standardisation of methods and presentation of vaccine safety data in future studies. "
They report 79% efficacy, again, for use of seasonal flu vaccines (when strain has to be predicted, not when it is verified as in a pandemic strain, where >97% efficacy rates can be accomplished).
Your second link :" OBJECTIVES: To evaluate unrecognized confounding by hypothesizing the presence of a 50% mortality reduction with vaccination for patients with pneumonia outside of influenza season. CONCLUSIONS: The 51% reduction in mortality with vaccination initially observed in patients with pneumonia who did not have influenza was most likely a result of confounding. Previous observational studies may have overestimated mortality benefits of influenza vaccinatio
Why did you post this link?
Same with your third link...a population -based nested case control study for seasonal flu.
Again, why did you pick this out?
Why don't you review these since they are relevant to the discussion:
http://sch
TheIndependenceParty replied on Nov 16, 2009 at 00:15:37
“I look forward to reviewing these.. Thanks for the links.
What it seems are lacking are blind mortality and morbidity studies and comparisons on the practice of influenza vaccination of at risk populations. Those studies also need to be made across time, now that there are a couple decades of flu vaccination series in place.
The practical questions we need to answer are whether flu vaccines preclude the recipients from incurring the flu in a season more than those who go unvaccinated? What health or financial benefit is derived from that avoidance?
In the at risk populations, does the practice of vaccinations reduce mortality and morbidity of secondary pneumonia?
If the rates are the same among vaccinated and unvaccinated at risk groups, are we avoiding secondary pneumonia, or masking the symptoms with a subacute infection that still results in pneumonia?”
What it seems are lacking are blind mortality and morbidity studies and comparisons on the practice of influenza vaccination of at risk populations. Those studies also need to be made across time, now that there are a couple decades of flu vaccination series in place.
The practical questions we need to answer are whether flu vaccines preclude the recipients from incurring the flu in a season more than those who go unvaccinated? What health or financial benefit is derived from that avoidance?
In the at risk populations, does the practice of vaccinations reduce mortality and morbidity of secondary pneumonia?
If the rates are the same among vaccinated and unvaccinated at risk groups, are we avoiding secondary pneumonia, or masking the symptoms with a subacute infection that still results in pneumonia?”
Swine Flu Shots Revive a Debate About Vaccines
Commented Oct 19, 2009 at 14:30:10 in Living
“The comments made by the Canadian team were published in a newspaper. They were not peer-reviewed. Nor did the authors' themselves think there was a definitive conclusion that could be derived from their study.
This has been peer-reviewed and published.
http://www
I love this quote from the NY Times article:
"Further, vitamin vendors — who in some cases operate blogs, with postings by people who claim to be doctors finding fault with vaccines — are reporting an increase in sales related to swine flu. Michael Angelo, chief research and information officer for eVitamins.
This has been peer-reviewed and published.
http://www
I love this quote from the NY Times article:
"Further, vitamin vendors — who in some cases operate blogs, with postings by people who claim to be doctors finding fault with vaccines — are reporting an increase in sales related to swine flu. Michael Angelo, chief research and information officer for eVitamins.
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