“Funny thing about Americans...You guys act like the US wasn't found on religion, and then you go Europe, China, Africa, South America and realize just how religious America is.
Religion is dead outside of this country..
America and Americans are founded on religious principles, it's a Religious Country, most don't see and appreciate that because they never get out or choose to ignore that fact.”
Alan Fullbeard on Sep 13, 2011 at 22:20:12
“It is a painful misconception that many Americans do believe we were specifically founded on the basis of Christianity, and the ambiguity of so many of the documents involved in the initial founding of the nation combined with overly spread rumors about the beliefs of the "Founding Fathers" doesn't help the situation. But the real truth is we were not. We have certainly become far too religious as it has penetrated the government at every level. If more people knew of the Treaty of Tripoli (http://www.wallbuilders.com/LIBissuesArticles.asp?id=125) we might be in at least a little smaller mess....And I believe that 82% of the entire population of South America is Roman Catholic. And with the forcing of Christianity upon many African nations allowing for the "conversion" of 40% of the population added to the 45% that are Muslims, they have their religious issues too. And it is at least worth a mention that there are still a considerable number of tribal religions. But, Europe is pretty secular, that's true.”
“Still don't understand why this is a big deal. When everything and everyone in our society (The US) constantly breaks down and denigrates marriage between couples. It just doesn't mean anything anymore.
So, marriage means what again...I thought it was just whatever we make of it and go with what works. So the symbolic nature is really nothing more than just a dying brand of something older people do....Good luck with that...”
czarcar on Jul 24, 2011 at 16:38:25
“laws as written specify "marriage" for legal privilege, a "civil union" may not do the trick in front of a conservative judge.........ithinx”
joemondo on Jul 24, 2011 at 16:24:46
“"So, marriage means what again..."
It means two people making an exclusive partnership commitment.”
YoMama on Jul 24, 2011 at 16:20:55
“The world is changing. This isn't anarchy; it's lawful inclusion. It is for the good of all of us to end discrimination. Don't be afraid. We have always been your neighbors.”
Jack Wiseley on Jul 24, 2011 at 16:20:32
“Seems like your opinion applies only to you. I hope you are not married.
Your pessimism is clearly not shared with all the people of all ages getting married today.
“and that is why I feel soo bad for American guys....The brand identity of women is all over the place...
No emotion, little respect, and expectations before any relationship all perpetuated by media, mostly movies, or chick flicks.. For American girls, please Go to Europe, and just look at what it means to be a woman.. Patient, caring, firm, strong, yet feminine..Not Bossy...Stop Thinking Movies are reality, that helps.”
“You know immigrants aren't such an issue with lower percentages of the population, but when they reach 20-25% of your population, you have to look for real solutions.
Arizona is doing just that. Illegal immigrants
(1) do not pay taxes,
(2) strain our largest part of our government's spending which is healthcare.
(3) Perpetuate the growing disparity between lower/middle VS. Upper classes due to lack of education, language barrier, and upward mobility.
(4) Further entrench welfare and gov funded projects eating away at our tax dollars
(5) Decrease consumption because 15-25% of their income goes back to Mexico and their families
Yea, the lower income wage jobs help lower our costs as Americans, but they are nonetheless a Short-Term solution, like most government policies. Immigrants will only our inequality, which will only force to promote socialist policies as their numbers increase.
How is this not clear, to those who favor "illegal immigration"?”
“This is obviously a hot topic, and as much as I want to answer those who wrote, I will end with this.
When you're 80 years old, and you shirt is lost its style from 10 years ago, your tv is not the latest and greatest, and your grandkids think you're a dork, you will realize culture will always change,the ebbs and flow of the world. Your beliefs may or may not change based on this culture, maybe they are or were 10 years old then.
I know and will always know, God's word stays the same, today, yesterday, and in the future, and this gives me hope each day.”
susankhbelen on May 11, 2011 at 02:24:53
“It is impossible for humans to comprehend God. *
It is possible that we follow the greatest commandment: "Love."
*as in, when you get enough age on you you should figure out to STOP judging and practice agape love to the best of your ability.”
Teacher Trish on May 11, 2011 at 02:20:41
“So you believe it "just because" but have no reason to believe it? That makes no sense what so ever.”
Teacher Trish on May 11, 2011 at 02:18:41
“So where is it written in the new testament, by Jesus, that gay and lesbian people should not be ordained? If you believe the Bible is the best way to back up your opinion then back it up.”
“Teacher...That's the Old Testament, I'm not Jewish. We believe in the New Testament. Those were the laws for the Jews, not Christians.”
dananotech on May 11, 2011 at 14:58:29
“Does that mean you don't believe the Ten Commandments?”
Teacher Trish on May 11, 2011 at 02:44:21
“So use the new testament to prove your point. Where in the new testament does it say that gay and lesbian people should not be "leaders" or ordained? You say you use the Bible to guide your ethics so do it - back it up. Where is it?”
“Apparently unAmerican, and hopefully forgiving.
I mean guys, leadership is leadership, culture is culture, religion is religion.
I'm not trying to be belligerent.”
JackNasty on May 11, 2011 at 13:17:03
“But you are, Kefler, you are.”
Teacher Trish on May 11, 2011 at 01:50:31
“You still haven't answered the questions about eating shellfish, stoning adulters and killing those who work on the Sabath. If this all about leadership, as you propose, wouldn't you want to attend a church that follows Leviticus to the letter? Oh, and by the way, most Christians are liars if they say they are literallists because there have been very few stonings in the news lately.”
“Great point, I'm a minority myself, nothing against us, or them, but Aren't leaders held to a higher standard than normal people. The Bible says the same thing. They are held accountable, and not just that but to lead us to instruct us.
Secondly, God reigns in heaven, enthroned in cherubim, I mean Greenchill I have nothing against being American, it's a privilege, but America or Americans are not God.
Americans will never be God, and our standard as a nation to be American or unAmerican is based on our values and morals. I mean I keep hearing cultural arguments, that relate to here and now, references to "Archaic" beliefs, as if to say America is where it's at on a MORAL compass. I'm sorry, leadership is seriosuly lacking in this country, our politics divides us, our people have the highest depression rate of any country in the world, we don't help our elders, we are extremely superficial.
Its easy to pick apart America and any country in the world, for that matter, I don't understand the point of evaluating Biblical leadership and principles with being American, what does that have to do with religion.
Absolutely nothing. Religion and politics are too separate entities. I dont understand your point.”
Greenchilistew on May 11, 2011 at 01:33:09
“I was not conflating religion and being American, rather, just the opposite. It seems that the bigoted Christians who fought to maintain segregation and those seeking to perpetuate homophobia are quite often the ones waving the flag the most and proclaiming the patriotism the loudest. Being American should mean respecting EVERY citizen, regardless of those things that make us different.
The one thing that no American should tolerate is intolerance. That people can claim to be disciples of Jesus Christ while they persecute their fellow man is beyond belief.
I think of the chorus of the old spiritual, "Everybody talkin' 'bout heaven ain't goin' there."
Indeed. Some of those talkin' the loudest ain't goin' there.”
“Jester, I can say this and that. But what my core issue rests on is lack of leadership and deterioration of leadership on fundamental levels in america. So facts are when you don't hold to beliefs you stand for nothing. Nothing is nothing, so something is something. Christian beliefs are just that, but the buffet style pick and choose this and that of religion seems more like "yogurt mountain" or chinese buffet. .”
HoosierInMaryland on May 12, 2011 at 19:12:30
“So do you follow the dictates of Leviticus, and burn an offering to your lord, even if your neighbors find offense, and doing such is a violation of local/city/county ordinance and/or state law?
Do you wear blended cloth in your clothing?
Do you ONLY eat fish with scales? No shrimp? No lobster?
All those commandments are in or near the commandments you seem to follow.”
boyoboy on May 11, 2011 at 01:28:12
“A nun told me once that anyone can make the Bible support anything they believe. No doubt she was talking about you.”
HaroldHeckubah on May 11, 2011 at 01:25:25
“If it weren't for buffet style pick and choose we'd be stoning disobedient children and selling daughters into slavery. Eating shellfish, wearing blended fabric, and (my favorite) pulling your beast of burden out of a rut on the sabbath would be punishable by death. Seems to me that pick 'n choose is at least a moderately saner approach to literalism.”
chaapai on May 11, 2011 at 01:20:18
“Then, if that is the case, you MUST go out and ki|| the unbelievers. You must stone the adulterers. You must punish those who work on the sabbath.
Do you do all of the things the bible tells you? Or do you pick and choose, buffet style?
Would you like me to find the biblical passages that order you to do such things, or do you know them from heart since you are such a sincere Xian?
The verses in Leviticus that are often used to bash gays contain many, many other admonishments that are oft ignored.
So, by your logic… you better get to smiting others. Your bible commands you! and if you don't...”
Jesterband on May 11, 2011 at 01:11:24
“"Nothing is nothing, so something is something. Christian beliefs are just that,..."
So Christian beliefs are semantically null sentences?”
Teacher Trish on May 11, 2011 at 01:09:33
“So, Kefler you claim to follow the bible 100%! Do you stone female adulterers to death? Do you wear clothing of mixed cloth? How about shellfish -eat any lately? Will you marry your brother's wife if your brother dies? How polygamy? Or do you believe in using discernment?”
“So, i'm just curious, what beliefs do you take from the Bible.
I mean God works in everybody's life to show them His way, but there are core principles you must agree on.
Men being leaders is a huge one, not just in the Bible, in society, I mean there's a huge collapse in male leadership in many aspects of society and it affects your home. Women want leaders, ask them, ask any of them.”
segdae22 on May 11, 2011 at 10:23:45
“First, the only core principles any "Christian" must agree on are the 2 commandments that Jesus himself gave (Love the Lord your God with all your hearth mind and soul and Love your neighbor as yourself) and the belief that Jesus Christ is God's only begotten son who died for our sins and rose again. All the rest is dogma and an invention by man.
And Men being leaders is not a huge one. There have been throughout history many societies which were Matriarchal instead of Patriarchal and they thrived. The notion that women need leaders is so misogynistic as to make me physically ill. And yes I know quite a few who are perfectly capable of being a leader and don't need a man to be a leader for them.
The simple fact is, society does need leaders but your gender or sexual orientation or race do not affect your ability to lead. Your character and your personality are what affect your ability to lead. Gay, straight, black, white, male, female - all are perfectly capable of being leaders provided they possess the skills and personality.”
susankhbelen on May 11, 2011 at 02:27:34
“what a load of horse doodee”
boyoboy on May 11, 2011 at 01:25:58
“I would SO kick your a_s_s out of my house.”
boyoboy on May 11, 2011 at 01:25:06
“Oh, puhleeze! Why would I need a leader when I am one?”
chaapai on May 11, 2011 at 01:16:43
“My goodness, you are terrible. It's you and those like those for which I wage a personal crusade against. Your religion is a terrible plague on the human soul and I wont rest till its extinguished.”
“Yes Juan, agreed, that is where the church gets the idea that leadership duties in a church are given to men.
And not just any men, but men who are in line with God.
Otherwise, men will be judged by God Himself, so it's not like" Hey any man can preach, teach, and say whatever he wants." God picks certain leaders, and the other guys, well they are other guys.
Again, these are the teaching of the Bible, if you don't agree, God is not forcing you to believe. I mean, but if you are a true Christian then what are you supposed to do.”
segdae22 on May 11, 2011 at 10:17:56
“I shudder every time I hear someone use the phrase "true Christian" mainly because it implies a belief that one is a "true Christian" and anyone who disagrees is a "false Christian". That is a very dangerous way of thinking.
The Bible is a book that says a lot of things, many of them open to interpretation. Even the passages on homosexuality can be interpreted differently when look through cultural and historical lenses (http://www.soulforce.org/pdf/whatthebiblesays.pdf). Not to mention all of the verses in the Bible that are no longer adhered to because they are no longer applicable to society (stoning children or adulters, women being subjugated or forbidden to wear jewelry or makeup, bans on shellfish and other dietary restrictions, the list goes on and on).
God sent us the Holy Spirit so that we could discern for ourselves what His will is. Unfortunately many forgo that and instead blinding follow the teachings of men rather than God. You are free to believe what you will. I would only caution you against any assumption that you are a "true" christian and someone who disagrees with you on matters of doctrine is not.”
zero1319 on May 11, 2011 at 01:47:54
“Paul wrote Corinthians, not God.”
chaapai on May 11, 2011 at 01:32:34
“a true christian would question ANY sign on intolerance, abuse or racism. A true christian would demand to know why their holiest work is filled with sexism, r@pe, ince$+, w@r, h0m0phobia and all the other terrible things it reports and demands.
Sheep are unquestioning.
are you a sheep?”
HaroldHeckubah on May 11, 2011 at 01:20:55
“So, you wouldn't be a judgemental bigot if it weren't for the Bible? "Oh, Iike those black folks just fine, but the Bible says it's wrong to marry them." "Oh, I like gay folks just fine, but the Bible says blah blah blah..." Get a better book.”
juancapez on May 11, 2011 at 01:19:40
“He answered and said to them, "Well did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written: 'This people honors Me with their lips, But their heart is far from Me. And in vain they worship Me, Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.
Funkstronaut on May 11, 2011 at 01:02:20
“"I mean, but if you are a true Christian then what are you supposed to do."
The answer is pretty simple. Change what you believe. I did.
Christianity isn't a color of skin. You weren't born with it. It is a belief system, and you can change it in an instant.”
“Okay, it never states in the Bible to denigrate and subjugate women, and minorities the same applies. So my argument, is not really my argument so much as words from the Bible.
Again, women played a larger role for centuries without much PR, leaders that are engaged in teaching, instructing, and leading the next generation are always held in higher regard. So i'm not understanding your argument about women and minorities.”
Mike Peace on May 11, 2011 at 01:30:15
“There are STILL a number of Christian denominations that will not allow a woman to become a leader in the church...what's not to understand?”
chaapai on May 11, 2011 at 01:30:09
1 Peter 3:1
1 Corinthians 14:34-36
those are just a few. You are a liar and your lies can be easily proven by reading your own scriptures. THe bible does denigrate woman.”
“I'm a christian...I like gay people, but in terms of leadership positions of a church, this is not the intention for an example of leading fulfilling, godly lives.
Our leaders are just that ....leaders. Since when can leaders be openly engaged in sin and then proclaim that is okay, the Bible states leaders are held to a higher standard.
The argument about sin is sin, does not apply. Sorry guys, and if you believe that then parenting has no real leadership, and men are not supposed to be leaders in their homes.
If you're a christian, then these are the "beliefs" otherwise, there are so many other options to live your life with, and there's nothing wrong with those, but at the end of the day, we must choose based on our beliefs.”
Teacher Trish on May 11, 2011 at 02:14:07
Where in the Bible does it say Gay and Lesbian people cannot be ordained priests?”
freedom4allau on May 11, 2011 at 02:10:59
“okie dokie, then anyone who is divorced cannot be a minister.”
tinaschrader on May 11, 2011 at 02:03:19
“Men aren't "supposed" to be the leaders in their homes unless the couple agrees upon that. Otherwise, a woman shouldn't have to "obey" her husband any more than he her. In other words, the two are *equal* partners in a marriage. I'm a Christian, and nowhere is it taught in my church that I would have to submit to my husband.”
SonOfUgh on May 11, 2011 at 01:56:45
“So your religious leaders should not eat shellfish (Leviticus 11:9-12)? Your religious leaders should not eat pork (Leviticus 11: 1-8)? Your religious leaders surely cannot be openly engaged in such sins.
Alternatively, you could realise that the bible is just a book of stories and that some of it provides good moral guidance and some of it is obsolete, dated, and inappropriate.”
Anaxamenes on May 11, 2011 at 01:50:02
“You don't like gay people if you consistently tell them they are living in sin.”
JackNasty on May 11, 2011 at 01:29:40
“You don't like gay people
You stated we are unfit for leadership positions .
You do know what that makes you, right?”
Greenchilistew on May 11, 2011 at 01:05:37
“Being born gay is no more a sin than being born black or a woman. Why don't you exit the stone age and join the rest of us in the 21st Century? I am an ordained elder in the Presbyterian Church and came close to leaving the church over this issue. Sexual identity is no more a choice than eye color or height. Spare us your moralizing homophobia. GLBT people are deserving of the exact same rights, considerations, and right to worship as they see fit as anybody else.
I am tired of any subset of America feeling that it is somehow just to deny full citizenship, access to places of business or places of worship based upon skin color, ethnicity, national origin, or sexual orientation. It is not only unjust, it is unAmerican.
How can you claim to be an American when you would so willingly persecute your fellow citizens?
"There are certain things in our nation and in the world which I am proud to be maladjusted and which I hope all men of good-will will be maladjusted until the good societies realize — I say very honestly that I never intend to become adjusted to — segregation and discrimination. I never intend to become adjusted to religious bigotry."
- Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.
It appears that the Presbyterian Church U.S.A. has also become maladjusted to religious bigotry.”
Jesterband on May 11, 2011 at 00:49:12
“Ah, the classic.....I'm a Chrstian, I like gay people..... always followed by a but.”
geoffrey s on May 11, 2011 at 00:48:18
“So then your sect's interpretation is the correct one and Everyone must conform to it? I was raised Congregationalist UCC and even in the 70's and 80's we had no problem with non-white leaders, female leaders, gay leaders ... but then we don't accept the idea that homosexuality is a sin.
As for men being the leaders of their home, that's just archaic.”
juancapez on May 11, 2011 at 00:39:23
“Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but [they are commanded] to be under obedience, as also saith the law.
1 Corinthians 14:34”
Mike Peace on May 11, 2011 at 00:36:58
“Same argument that kept women and minorities from leading for centuries...it was wrong then...it's wrong now.”