“Not once in our conversations have I ever used religion as the source of my position. It is pure human biology and physiology and simple logic. The fact that some religions agree is pure coincidence.
You are smart not to actually argue abortion, because you know you lose based on logic, reason and facts. Because only women get pregnant, you cannot argue the case cogently. You are too emotionally involved to render an unbiased judgment. Your emotions cloud any intelligent discussion. So, rather than admit you are wrong, you close off discussion on the subject so you won't have to face the fact that abortion is wrong. It is counter-evolutionary to the Darwinian theory of evolution.
The problem with sex education and contraception and financial support for unwed mothers is that it doesn't work. In fact it only makes the situation worse. You can give men and women condoms in school, and a Rx for BCP's but you cannot be in the back of the car and force the guy your about to have sex with to put one on or make sure the girls remember to take their daily dose. We have had the BCP for 40 years, and condoms were moved from behind the counter to the regular shelves, right next to the personal lubricants and hand lotion, and every high school hands them out in the nurses office like breath mints and the out-of-wedlock birth rate is higher than ever especially among high school age girls.”
“It this what passes for a cogent counter-argument? You do realize that if men could get pregnant they would be women not men? If you are going to establish a straw man argument with any chance of success, it first has to look like a man.
But you do point out the great misogynistic evils ever played on women when a bunch of white guys in robes gave us Rove v Wade. By making the choice of abortion solely a woman's right, in violation of the 14th amendment equal protection clause of equal protections
By limiting the choice to only the female and not the male responsible for the pregnancy, Men no longer have to woo and marry women before having sexual pleasures with them and if a baby happens, instead of doing the honorable thing of marrying and supporting their baby together, the guy can simply walk away. Slam bam thank you m'am is now codified into law. The joke's on you, and over 50 million babies slaughtered in utero because you have taken men out of the choice.
If women can kill a man's seed without his consent, is it no wonder that marriage and having babies have divorced themselves from each other.”
JPWright on Apr 21, 2014 at 10:10:49
“I'm smarter than to argue with a man about abortion, especially no matter how you frame your “seed” argument…it’s the woman that ends up with the pregnancy. No one is forcing any women to have an abortion. No one seems to figure out there are spontaneous abortions aka miscarriages – thousands every day…so “seeds” are dying by the thousands without abortions.
It is people who want to force their views on women’s bodies, and don’t think for a minute it isn’t about controlling women. If you were really concerned about the number of abortions, you’d be supporting sex education, contraception, adoptions, financial support for single mothers AFTER the pregnancy….instead of just focusing on the embryos and fetuses.
I, personally don’t believe in abortions and have two adopted children; however, I respect the women’s right to choose.
You can and will probably want to get a last word in (It's a man thing)....However, this is my LAST word on the subject with you. You’re certainly welcome to express your religious views, but when people think they have a right to force their views on women, who don’t agree with them-- that’s when the view gets extremely CONTROLLING, and in opinion is wrong.”
“The correct biological terms are ending a human life in its most nascent and helpless state of development. To call it "the unwanted products of conception" is an avoidance of ones own emotions. Emotions are the thing that separates sentient beings from the lesser animals. But no other species on animal on earth hires other members of its own species to terminate the pregnancy of another of the same species leaving the mother intact. Some animals do eat mothers and if they were pregnant at the time, might kill their own seed.
If abortion required the mother to die to, they truly would be rare.”
JPWright on Apr 20, 2014 at 21:59:16
“Well, one thing for sure, you'll never have to worry about making a choice as to whether to get an abortion or not....
If men got pregnant, this wouldn't be an issue....”
“A fertilized egg is viable outside of the mother from the moment of conception. We prove that every day a baby is born to a surrogate, even if the fertilized egg was frozen in liquid nitrogen for a dozen years.
The problem with trying to have a debate with the left is that they keep changing the definitions of words when they lose on a particular point. They did it with marriage by removing the requirement that only one of each sex is allowed for the union to be a marriage. A gay same sex couple has no more value or potential capacity to society than a straight same sex couple like (Joey and Chandler on Friends). They now, do it with the biological definition of life, and with viability.
To be completely viable outside the mother's womb, according the the ACA doesn't actually occur until age 26 when they can no longer live in mom and dad's basement and suckle off their health insurance nipple.
A fertilized egg exhibits all the qualities of the biological definition of life including metabolism, and cellular division. It also exhilbits all the unique qualities required for it to be human, which is a unique DNA different from the mother and father. A fertilized human egg will never grow up into a mouse or a turnip.
If it is alive, and it is human, it is a human life.”
“The brain dead heart cannot beat if not hooked to life support for very long. But the developing brain of an unborn baby forms long before the heart starts beating and the nervous system is growing not dying in utero.”
AmyLawson on Apr 21, 2014 at 10:15:29
“"The brain dead heart cannot beat if not hooked to life support for very long"
You mean just like the fetus is hooked up to the mother? Isn't it funny that the family of the brain dead person gets a CHOICE of whether or not to continue life support.”
“Just because you WANT health care to be a human right doesn't make it one. A right is something you can choose to exercise or refuse and costs no one else a penny to provide. You have a right to life (but only after you have been born, not for the first 9 months of your life) and liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. No guarantees of how long that life should be, or how much liberty you care to exercise, or whether or not you will actually achieve happiness.
So health care is NOT a human right? The CEO of Sandoz or Lily is going to die eventually no matter how much money they have. Steve Jobs is a perfect example. And you don't have to leave your family penniless. You can simply refuse expensive drugs that will only add a few months of painful existence to your life and deny your family half of your estate and the government the other half.
If health care is a human right, it should be free to everyone. But nothing is free. Ergo, health care cannot be a human right.”
“Why are profits "obscene"?
According to the DCD there were 2.6 billion prescriptions filled in the US in 2011. The average profit margin for the pharmaceutical industry is about 12%. Its 18% for the major companies, 12% for the middle tier, and 5.4% for generics. These don't seem obscene when what they are selling is something that will extend or save your life. Unless you don't think your life is worth very much.”
“Things that are essential to life should not be manipulated by greedy corporations? Should they be manipulated by oppressive governments instead?
We are all mortal. The rich evil CEO of Sandoz or Eli Lily will be just as dead as you or I, and all that money won't buy him entrance into heaven, or escape from hell. There are no armored bank cars in funeral processions.
You are free to NOT take their expensive Viagra, and buy a Playboy magazine which is resuable.
You are free to just say no, or time your sexual activities to the mentrual cycle rather than taking BCP's or using condoms.
You can refuse the expensive chemotherapy that will only extend your life a few weeks but bankrupt your estate so the kids have to pay for your funeral out of their own pockets.
Healthcare is not a right, and it isn't free. If it were a right, it would be illegal for doctors and hospitals and drug companies to charge you a single penny or for governments to tax you a single penny for that matter to obtain it. Good luck with that.”
Fran Jaime on Apr 18, 2014 at 13:03:31
“Healthcare IS a human right. The CEO of Eli Lilly or Sandoz will not go bankrupt should he have cancer. He will not leave his family penniless and will have the best care affordable. death equals us all but the road to death is most certainly made comfortable by money.”
“I fail to see why a health insurance company's goal of making a profit is somehow at odds with my health. If I am dead, they don't get any of my business. If they offer a poor return for my premium dollar I could go elsewhere. Before the ACA, I could save money, as an older man, by buying a plan that doesn't cover obstetrics, birth control pills, or childhood immunizations for my wife.
Her policy was canceled last year because it didn't offer her these things she didn't need or want, and the new plan she was offered to replace it is costing me $127.34 a month more than the prior policy. Further, my employer sponsored insurance for me, was raised $27 a month in ACA taxes to subsidize someone else's plan.
Under a single, non-for-profit payer system like Medicare, there is no competition, no profit motive in the administration of it to reward you for running a tight ship. So it becomes a breeding ground of inefficiencies, including no incentives to audit doctors or hospitals for fraud, (you might find a few so egregious by luck like the doctor in Florida who bilked MC for several million, but never the $50 overcharges by thousands of other providers that don't get caught). Private insurers employ auditors to review all claims, and keep costs and premiums down, and profit up.”
“Will you still agree with Ricky when the government says you can only charge half of what you are currently charging for your services? Or that the lesser skilled physician down the street will get paid the same as you even though you are much more skilled?”
manng on Apr 18, 2014 at 06:12:12
“Larry, I have so much to say about your response that the HF forum would be insufficient. However, I will say that the way to cut down on medical costs is to slash the administrative costs of multiple payees. I promise you that the goal of health insurance companies is to make a profit. Your health is secondary to that.”
“It costs $.10 to make, but it cost half a billion to get past the FDA. It will also cost millions in lawsuits eventually. The patent lasts only 19 years, but 12 or more are wasted in animal and human clinical trials to satisfy the FDA clearance process before they can sell the first pill. Three out of four new drugs never make it to market, but the costs still have to be paid for from that $20 pill before the patent runs out. ANd since the governments in other countries don't allow any profit at all, the US pays the burden of drug development alone.”
“Cheyenne, I know this is hard to believe, but the government is the one you should be blaming, not law abiding corporations and successful businessmen. They are the ones that give tax breaks that allow GE to pay zero taxes on billions of profit. they are sequestering entire industries like natural gas and the XLK pipeline. they waste billions on green energy programs that go belly up while their CEo's walk away with millions of my tax dollars. The free market does a much better job of investing in the future than central planning. (e.g. USSR)”
Chyenne Mollohan on Apr 18, 2014 at 10:49:35
“This sounds like a Libertarian argument. CEO's walking away with millions is nothing new and definitely not exclusive to Government Subsidized Corporations. Yahoo's Ex CEO just walked with a 78 million Golden Parachute.
I will agree that certain current members of the Legislative Branch are a problem and help foster the fleecing of Americans by corporations.
What we have here is a BIG problem. BIG problems are made of little problems. The blame belongs to everyone. From corrupt corporations backing candidates that are sympathetic to their agenda or morally flexible, the politicians themselves for being ethically bankrupt, and the average American who votes for such scum.
We are all responsible for this mess. As long as people view themselves as victims, they will never take responsibility for themselves.
I am not naive enough to think I am not part of the problem. I am not naive enough to think that one part of our society deserves ALL the blame.”
Richard Broderick Jr on Apr 16, 2014 at 19:07:43
“Horsehockey. A few years ago we had the Bush secretary of the Treasury and former chairman of Goldman Sachs, Henry Paulson, begging the Congress for 700 Billion dollars that was needed immediately to give to those "successful businessmen" or the economy would collapse.
The super simplistic "government is the enemy" BS fails to recognize that the "free market" needs government to exist. Otherwise your markets are reduced to CON snakeoil salesmen.”
“As a Middle class american, i am more tired of being treated less favorably by the government not the corporations that hire me and pay me a fair day's wage for a fair day's work. Then the government removes half of it in taxes to give to people who make poor life choices, don't finish high school, get teenage girls pregnant, or become pregnant, or engage in drugs thefts robberies and other crimes and become part of the criminal justice prison system. I have sympathy for a young girl who gets pregnant and has a child out of wedlock. The first one is an accident (giving extreme latititude in benefit of doubt), but the second and third ones are choices, and poor ones. We should not have to subsidize that and encourage more of it.”