“Robert Tilton is a sad example, not even comparible to anything of Christ. He was even caught taking donations from envelopes and tossing out the peoples' Prayer Requests. Every preacher, whether a Mega-church or not, is NOT an actual true Preacher of the True Word of God and behaves as such.”
“I don't know about a whip and knocking over chairs, I beieve that drama is all in the movies about Christ. Jesus did get angry (and the ONLY time He ever did) and drove the merchants who were selling things out of the Temple because as He said, " it was a House of Prayer and not a den of theives". It wasn't anyone's residence. In any case, what is your point here?”
JHouser12 on Jun 4, 2014 at 18:35:21
“"And when he had made a scourge of small cords, he drove them all out of the temple, and the sheep, and the oxen; and poured out the changers' money, and overthrew the tables; And said unto them that sold doves, Take these things hence; make not my Father's house an house of merchandise." - John 2:15-16, KJV
The point is that the church isn't supposed to be a place of profits (only prophets); no man is intended to make money by selling the word of God or doing business in His house. To me, the Cleansing of the Temple makes that point abundantly clear. Joel Osteen may not preach that prayer will make a man wealthy, but he makes these bold claims that his fortune (made from selling the word of God instead of preaching it) is a gift from on high. That very idea seems to run contrary to what's in the Book. But, like I said, the church and I had our parting of ways some time ago, so my opinion isn't really a valid one.”
“Perhaps you haven't heard, but God took all of His anger of the Old Testament and laid it on His own Son at the Cross so we would not have to deal with ANY of that since Christ's death fulfilled the Old Testament Law on things like that.”
“belief in SOME "holy men." They're not all the same, though I'd say the vast majority of those on television hold somewhat of a monopoly on that. Still, there are plenty who are honest and preach the true Gospel.”
Thai Angst on Jun 4, 2014 at 16:34:11
“And the honest guys would tend to keep their flocks small and manageable, right?”
“There are still millions who have not heard of Jesus, all over the world. Christianity has been rejected in VERY few places, and that is only because those places are predominately Muslim. You need to do more reading. Also, Christians (who are considered Protestant) and the Catholic Church are not the same. Some Catholics call themselves Christians, but Christians are actually Protestant. So at least in your one example, you cannot blame Christians for the doings of the Catholic Church. It has also been the Catholic Church who has indeed been involved in those of which you speak - setting up kingdoms, wanting control (as they now are trying to get the Christians to unite with the Catholic Church - Google it) and taking over finances especially.”
FirLocke on Jun 4, 2014 at 18:37:45
“Sweetie, out of almost 7 billion people in the world, only 2 billion are Christian - that means ALL Christians, Protestant, Catholic, whatever. That's 5 billion people who are NOT Christian, many of whom rejected it outright (you even gave the example of Islam). That's a lot of people who are not Christian. And as for the supposed "millions" who haven't heard of it, well, babies and the deaf don't count. Or perhaps you can give a genuine example of people who *haven't* hearrd of it?
And just so you know, ALL the denominations who worship Jesus are Christians by definition. That includes Catholics, Protestants, Lutherans, Mormons, Unitarians, Unity Christians, etc. You claim that only Protestants are Christian, but that is simply not true, since Christianity was established long before the Protestant church. The Catholic Church was the first bastion of Christianity, highjacked by the Apostle Peter himself. Perhaps you are the one who needs to do more reading, starting with some comparative religion and history books.
And as far as "blame" goes...while the Church has given some sporadic lame platitudes regarding regrets over various crimes it has committed in the name of greed, I don't exactly see the Catholic Church renouncing the wealth it basks in to this day. I also don't see Osteen or any other mega-wealthy pastor renouncing their wealth and giving it all away to charity. Isn't that what the poor, transient Jesus would do? Or is that only convenient when one is already poor?”
“A Pastor is supposed to recieve a salary from his church, and most will provide the Pastor and his family a home on the church grounds or nearby. It's seldom elaborate, but nice enough. Any more than that, like in Osteen's case, money is made from book sales, speaking engagements, etc. That is their own money, and they decide how much they want to put into the Kingdom of God. (donate to the church or other Ministries.) It's only my opinion, but no man of God should have a net worth of $40 million dollars. God blesses, but we are to bless back, and yes, in the BIble God says, "It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of God." It's not up to me who goes to Heaven, but God's word sounds pretty clear on that. As a Christian, you can imagine my shock when not long ago, I heard a Pastor on Tv explain that Scripture about the rich entering God's Kingdom with a totally different meaning. (Not Osteen) Some say what suits them, even changing Scripture to suit them, but not all.”
“Exactly right. Jesus told His Disciples (and one in particlular who was rich and wanted to follow Him) to "sell all you have and give to the poor." One wealthy man wouldn't do that, he wanted his riches here on earth, so he walked away instead of following Jesus. You can't take it with you.”
“More nonsense. You have every right to believe or not. You don't have a right to lie about those you disagree with just because you DO disagree with them. No honor among so many people anymore - if you disagree with another, lie about them to try to make yourself look good and feel better. It does the opposite,”
“WHAT Preacher has ever said anything even close to that? That is so far against Christian doctrine that no preacher would even say anything close to that. It's one thing to have your own beliefs (or lack of). It's another to lie about those who do, and that is a bald faced lie.”
“True, but that "middle man" is supposed to preach the Gospel and teach God's word in it's entirety and many don't. That's why we use discernment, and whatever we hear from that "middle man" anymore, we check into it ourselves to be sure we're being taught truth and all of God's truth.”
“Jesus said that we are to assemble ourselves with other believers. (Go to church.) However, these days, it's difficult to find a church where the actual Gospel of God is taught and preached and having more Bible preaching over either finances or Pastor's opinions. MANY Christians do now just stay at home and have their own personal relationship with God without a church. That is, however, (what Jesus said) one of the reasons for organized religion aside from the so many denominations.”
pangie on Jun 4, 2014 at 12:38:19
“And you were there when jesus said it? Or, was it written by scribes? Study history.”
“Osteen has said that people can anything they want if they pray and believe, but he has NEVER said "if they just give to the church" to get those results. He may be a "Word of Faith" Preacher (which is still a false Gospel) but he is NOT one of those who says they'll recieve it by giving money. "Word of Faith" teaches believe it and recieve it. God is Holy, and He does answer prayer, but not in the way some preachers teach it - like those who Preach the "Word of Faith" Gospel.
Prosperity Gospel adds the "give us money." An example of those would be Benny Hinn, Joyce Meyer, the "king" of Prosperity Preachers Robert Tilton, and many more. Being a "Word of Fath" Preacher rather than a "Prosperity Gospel" Preacher, Osteen doesn't preach that giving to the church will return to people ten fold or such things. Though both "Word of Faith" and the "Prosperity Gospel" are both false Gospels. Joel would be a great Motivational Speaker, the best even, but as far as being a Pastor, he simply isn't preaching nearly enough of the word of God.”
“How? He wrote books, and if people choose to read them, just as you choose to read what you do, that's THEIR choice. As far those believers who attend his church, that's also their choice. From their coffers he recieves a salary. Everyone who has a job recieves a salary... Has nothing to do with any "gullibility." Your not believing what millions of others do is not gullibility, nor is it any of your business what other people's personal beliefs are. You don't own other people. No doubt there is plenty that you believe that millions don't. Could be why they're called PERSONAL beliefs.”
“Nonsense, and there is none. Once again, it is the old "agree with me or you are shoving your beliefs down my throat" play that's so old it's ridiculous. No Christian wants to control anyone else's lives because they state an opinion not matching yours. (or whoever is of the opposite opinions.) Something that every single person in the world does. We are ALL entitled to our opinions without being called names and bullied because they don't match other's opinions.”
“No one is trying to force anything onto anyone else. Nor is there any phraise in the Constitution that reads "separation of church and state." That law is meant to protect the government from choosing any one religion over any other for the country's citizenry. Christians grasp plenty - as soon as one gives their opinion and a non-Christian disagrees, instead of just saying, "I disagree with you," the Christian is accused of shoving it down people's throats simply for stating an opinion and you happen to disagree. People DO disagree, and NO ONE is trying to shove anything down anyone's throats. It's another way of saying "agree with me or you are shoving your beliefs down my throat." Some people cannot stand it when others disagree with their opinions. No one is forcing you to have morals. That's your choice.”
p c r on Jun 3, 2014 at 00:09:27
“There are laws forbidding cohabitation without marriage, which is an effort for religious morals and mores to be forced on me despite my personal beliefs, even though cohabitation harms no one.
The AG in Virginia, where I live, attempted to circumvent a SCOTUS ruling about what consenting adults are allowed to do in their homes, especially aimed at homosexuals, by claiming that a state statute outlawing sodomy is the only way to be able to prosecute pedophiles.
I don't care what you say about your religion. My concern is when religion is the basis for passing laws and regulations that impact everyone, which is trying to legislate religion to the masses. The Kansas Board of Education went to court to defend teaching the story of creation from the Christian Bible as an alternative to science and evolution. That presumes that one specific religion be taught as scientific fact to all children in the schools, despite the religious beliefs or affiliations of the students which shows a direct preference by the government for one religion over all others.
I have a very strong moral base, but the misogynistic Christian hypocrisy (women are possessions to be passed in ownership from a father to a husband, slavery is hunky-dory, accumulation of wealth means the person won't go to Heaven except when the churches and 1% have the excess cash...) is not part of it. jesus said and did many moral things, but current Christian morality ignores most of them.”
“And ours isn't so people are free to believe whatever they want to..by their OWN choices. Again, no one forces anything on you so why the nonsensical diatribe?”
OrneryJoe on Jun 3, 2014 at 22:58:31
“BS, religion is forced on people around the world, and has been throughout world history. This isn't always the case, especially in the post modern world, but if you think religion cannot be/has never been foisted onto people, then nonsense must be your coping strategy. Good luck with that.”
“No one can "tell" another anything. If someone has faith beliefs and they CHOOSE to follow those beliefs, they are not being told or forced to do anything. This IS a free country, and if someone chooses to excercise their faith and live according to the word of God, then that is THEIR choice. It has nothing to do with NOT thinking for yourself because you ARE thinking for yourself when you CHOOSE to live personal faith beliefs. If it was being forced, then everyone would be required to do it, so it is obviously NOT the case. Some of us as adults CHOOSE to live by our faith beliefs, and it's our lives. It's none of your concern at all nor does it affect your life. Strange, I can live by my beliefs and still think for myself. I make my own choices like everyone else. No one is FORCED to believe.”
“It's all well and good to feel the way that you choose about anything, but it is also all well and good to have some common courtesy for other's beliefs and respect them and their beliefs. People scream up and down day after day for equal treatment, but some of us don't have that "luxury' of simply having what we believe not called vile names, called "irrational", myths, and more. Have some respect for others, if you expect to have respect for anything you believe to be fair and right. Slamming another's personal beliefs is no better than those who choose to slam any other person for anything in life that THEY believe is right. Have respect for other human beings and treat others as you wish to be treated. It makes for a more respectful and kinder world. What YOU call nonsense and do so where there are others that hold those beliefs dear is offensive and seems to me that the whole offending others thing has been deemed as wrong as I hear daily.”
ann droid36 on Jun 2, 2014 at 21:05:42
“Oh really? You religious nuts have oppressed the LGBT community for centuries....all because of your ancient and false superstitions and "beliefs" - what monumental gall and hypocrisy you have!! When you REPEAL all of the State marriage bans, and all other forms of LGBT discrimination, plus APOLOGIZE to the entire LGBT community, then and only then, do you religious nuts begin...and I mean BEGIN to be respected by the rational segment of society. If that day comes, and I doubt it, whatever harsh terms are used to describe religious nuts is simply payback - deal with it - IMHO. Otherwise I see you folks as anachronistic fools from the Dark Ages, whose time has past.”
“Feeling old - when I was in high school, girls couldn't even wear slacks to school until my Junior year when they changed the dress code. BUT - no jeans! That was back in 1972. Now I have had 7 of my 8 so far graduate high school and every year they seem to get more lenient. I'd like to see the schools here have a little more covering up. No one needs to wear a 'belly shirt' (I think they're called) to school. Take care!”
anneisanne on Jun 2, 2014 at 20:39:45
“Ugh- bellyshirts! My 15-year-old self would hate me, but I'm 100% pro uniform after working in schools since 2002. The ones with are so much calmer than ones with free dress.”