MiddleRoadLiberal's Comments (164)

“Thanks for that ... I'm a Korean war veteran, a taxpayer, and an atheist.”

“What if he's Hindu? Or Wiccan? would that be ok :)”

“Absolutely.”

“You don't have to make it illegal. If you properly regulate it, require it to be clean, and ban the process of factory farming due to it's detriment to public health, the problem will solve itself. The price of meat will skyrocket and only the rich will be able to afford it, leading to a likely phasing out over time.

Problem solved.

None of these steps have to be taken on a moral basis. Factory farming should be banned simply because of the risks to public health associated with it. If anything else was coming out of those factories and resulting in the same amount of pollution and public health concern, it would be shut down IMMEDIATELY, but people have such an immature, knee-jerk reaction to the truth about meat that they come out with all kinds of crazy nonsense to defend themselves.”

“Swine flu came from factory farming. That's a fact. You can't overstate that. Cramming together thousands of animals that are filled with antibiotics, living in pools of their own crap and blood, will produce disease and that disease WILL cross over to humans. This has been demonstrated, and we are seeing the effects of it now with swine flu as one example.

Meat is the direct cause of a significant portion of cancer, heart disease, diabetes, obesity, and some are even now saying ms and osteoporosis. Again, that's a fact.

Cows are responsible for more greenhouse gasses than cars. Once again, a fact.

Factory farms cause massive amounts of pollution to the air and water around them. Woah, another fact!

In order for there to be ups and downs, you have to have ups. There are no ups for meat. It's bad for our bodies, our environment, and as a result of those, also bad for our economy.

I could have made all the same arguments you are making for any other change to society:

"We can't declare ourselves independent from Britain, there will just be new problems!"

"We can't give women the right to vote, there will be unforeseen circumstances!"

Sometimes you do things because they are right, not because they are convenient.”

“Thank you for that intelligent response.

You are correct. Our diets ARE a choice. But the notion that our survival as humans ONLY depends on digesting meat (as Jacukel seems to imply) is as compelling as a Weekly World News article on Elvis sightings.

If we somehow evolve (albeit very slowly) to carnivores, it will not come about by a sudden shift in diet toward meat, dairy, fish and eggs.

Sharks have systems that process and expel animal food source very quickly.... avoiding putrefication. So do canines, felines, some reptiles and members of the weasel and marten groups. We don't.

I've said it a hundred times. If you decide to eat meat (emphasis on 'decide'), then do it in MODERATION with better quality meat. Mix in a lot of veggies, whole grains and other non-adulterated plant foods.”

“Interesting how you completely ignored my point. Obviously I already don't eat it. That isn't the topic at hand. The problem is the irreparable damage it is doing to our environment, the harm it is doing to our economy, and the epidemics it is creating (like swine flu). I still have to worry about my food being contaminated with e coli or salmonella because YOU choose to eat meat. I still have to worry about diseases caused by factory farms. I still have to worry about the pollution.

Take your logic to any other topic and it's clearly ludicrous:

"Dont like theft? Don't steal! Wow, that was easy!"
"Don't like when people drunk drive? Don't do it! Wow, that was easy!"
"Don't like littering? Don't litter! Wow, that was easy!"

If you think that that logic solves any of those problems, well then there isn't much else I can say.”

“It was the leaps in produce farming which allowed that to happen, not animal farming. The people in feudal Europe were living at subsistence level. A subsistence level society (one where people have no time to do anything but farm) cannot spend much time on livestock because it takes up large amounts of time and land. You can get a lot more bang for your buck (despite that there was no currency) by produce farming.

Factory farming didn't become a reality until the 20th century, long after feudalism had given way to capitalism and led to the industrial revolution and animal farming changed very little from ancient times until the 20th century.. Trying to say something that took place in the 20th century caused the events of the previous centuries is nonsense.”

“Historically, animal farming was reserved for the royalty. Peasants were lucky to have eaten meat once a year.

That being said, historically speaking, animal husbandry was never practice to feed entire populations. People's diets relied primarily on produce; mass animal farming is a modern phenomenon.

So if people of just a few hundreds years ago can do it, so can we.”

“So. Animals that only eat plants are not animals? And if they ARE animals, doesn't that drive your claim into question?

The correct way to approach this is by comparing the human digestive system to animals that are dedicated carnivores and dedicated herbivores. Throw in a few omnivores for good measure. Since significant evolution doesn't happen within 100,000 years, guess which class people fit into? Take your time.

http://www.vegsource.com/veg_faq/comparative.htm”

“My claim is totally relevant.

Yes, SOME animals eat other live animals; no, it is not necessarily morally incorrect to eat other animals; and yes, humans are advanced animals.

If you believe that humans are no more different than any other animal based on our moral and intelligent grounds, then yes, we should feel no remorse eating meat as our bodies require protein. But I believe humans are quite different from, say, lions. Although we both need meat to survive, whereas lions can ONLY resort to hunting and eating the flesh of its preys, humans are capable of meeting that dietary requirement with synthetic protein and even other types of protein, such as soy and wheat germs.

Especially, knowing the adverse effects of consuming meat and farming animals -- health complications and environmental deterioration --, it boggles my mind why any one would kill for the meat.

P.S. I hope you don't eat that cat.”

“No one is forcing you...we are asking that you consider the moral issues of eating meat.

Also, the animals we eat in this country the most...the cow, the pig, the chicken are totally harmless to us.

We are abusing, hurting, using and killing these gentle animals in the billions for our palates.

So don't use the excuse that other animals kill...the animals you are eating would never hurt you at all.”

“The only reason we are outnumbered is because people went bonkers and started breeding cows, pigs, chickens, and turkeys.”

“the crux is not about eating animals, it is about mass produced meat.”

“The capability to eat animals doesn't make it right, wrong, or anything really. Whether we CAN do something or not is irrelevant.

I CAN kill people. Animals kill each other, and I'm an animal, so why can't I? Animals commit rape. Animals bash each other's skulls in when a member of the same species gets in the way. Your logic doesn't go very far.

I do, however, have the right to fight to properly regulate the meat industry, which would cause the price of meat to become so astronomical that the vast majority of people wouldn't be able to afford it and it would become a delicacy.

You say I don't have the right to tell you not to eat meat, but why do you have the right to pollute MY water and MY air. Why do you have the right to get pig crap all over my food? These are the costs of mass production of meat. Period.

Before you say "I don't do that, the meat industry does!" You vote with your dollars. You choose to support that industry. You know what that industry does and you CHOOSE to ignore it and funnel tons of money to it.”

“What?!

Not all animals eat each other and those animals that do eat other animals certainly do not farm their preys. Your claim is totally irrelevant.”

“Who are you talking to? Arianna? Because most of us liberals don't agree with her premise.”

“I was actually more concerned about the response of straight men to the gay men in the shower rather than the other way around.”

“You don't pay "hundreds" for health insurance. You pay THOUSANDS!”

“oooooooh that one hurt ......”

“Why does insurance have to cover that? Can't some of this come out of our own pockets?”

“Seeing a good nutritionist is a bill worth paying. Very few doctors have any nutritional education or skills. It may sound crazy but this is true. See a nutritionist and your visits to the doctor will decrease, guaranteed.”

“Actually, it sounds kind of silly, but no more so than what's already out there.”

“Another point to be made is that Mr. Bush was president for 8 months at that point, and those attacks were planned long before he became President”

“You kitty is cute.”

“Charlie Sheen's letter to the Pres says it all. Will Obama be on the right side of history or continue Bush's third term. So far he is continuing our descent into Fascism. Bush and Obama are puppets for the same global elitist group of oligarch banksters.”

“Yes, and those groups sprung up overnight when President Bush was elected, and not a result of a Democrat administrations soft stance on terrorism for the preceding 8 years.”