“Unless you are an expert in abnormal psychology (thus already knowing how to effectively manage all manner of violent psychosis) I will refer you to me response above.
As for me, I am not educated or experienced in managing mental and neurological illness, particularly of the magnitude and nature that the institution in question deals with daily. I will reserve my judgment and follow the case in hopes of learning something.
If you feel qualified and prepared to render judgment, so be it. I think your immediate judgement will be given equal weight as my deferred judgement of this case. That is to say, none at all.”
friedrich nietszche on Apr 13, 2012 at 01:54:53
“My point is you don't need to be "educated or experienced in managing mental and neurological illness" to know that this is wrong. All you need is your common sense of decency.
And by the way, I actually own a PhD in psychopathology.”
“I understand that a prima facia view of this incident will illicit a predictable response from most people but, as you say, considering all the details of the incident is important.
What I don't know are the dynamics of abnormal psychology. I don't know how closely related defiant behavior is to dangerous behavior in that context. I don't know how precipitous a normally benign act is to violence in this context. I can judge this scenario if I superimpose a normal psychology on this young man, but this is not the case.
I want to be indignant...that is my knee-jerk response but I will admit that it is possible that I am missing crucial information, training, education and experience in dealing with violent and self abusive psychologies. This admission is a humble one that apparently few of my internet contemporaries are willing to assume. But I must remind myself that the internet is full of experts in all areas.”
“what is the difference between having clinicians administer shocks versus the patient inflicting "extreme self injury"?
- Easy...One could result in irreversible deformity, diminished capacity, crippling, blood loss, life threatening trauma and one could not.
"Is there really a difference in how this feels?"
- I am not an expert in abnormal neurology..I suspect neither are you. that is to say I am not qualified to comment on the relative pain sensation of someone who compulsively injures themselves because of a disorder.
"Based on what you stated Proc, they could cut out the overhead of paying a clinician to administer the abuse if the patient is capable of treating him or herself. "
-I, at no point and in no context, suggested anything of the sort.”
“I realize that. I haven't made a judgement yet. I feel like it isn't my place or yours in this instance. It is an article that takes an issue that virtually nobody deals with and then we, the great inexperienced and uninformed, get to put forth our laymen's verdict.”
“I was shocked at first, then I went to the website of the center in question and saw the kinds of disability they were dealing with. Now, I am not sure. Please go to the website and see the kinds of extreme behavioral disabilities they are dealing with. without intervention, most of these patients would need to be completely restrained 24/7 to prevent extreme self injury
Visit the website, look at the pictures before making a judgment.”
trenee2001mi on Apr 22, 2014 at 13:06:06
“NO. this is NEVER acceptable. Ever. I have two special needs kids-one on the spectrum with a SEIZURE DISORDER.. What do you think seizures are? Manifestations of the ELECTRICAL SHOCKS in the brain that can cause pain, damage and death-that is why these folks are being investigated.. they should be shocked. we don't even do this to inmates. you need to go back to morality school.”
TH1NK on Apr 13, 2012 at 12:21:06
“Considering I've heard no evidence that electroshock therapy stops people from actually WANTING to mutilate themselves, I think I'd rather be in bed restraints or a straight jacket to prevent me from doing so. That sounds more pleasant than electroshock therapy, and cheaper for the institution. Or, try the right combination of medications. This doesn't seem like the answer regardless of what type of people they are dealing with.”
boyoboy on Apr 12, 2012 at 16:18:17
“Don't you think the center's website is going to be biased towards the center?”
friedrich nietszche on Apr 12, 2012 at 16:02:28
“Oh give me a break ! He was shocked 31 times because he refused to obey ! Not to "prevent extreme self injury" ! And tell me since when its legitimate to inflict extreme pain in order to "prevent extreme self injury" ? We rightfully prohibited this kind of pavlovian conditioning for animals and now you'd make us believe its legit for human beings ? Decent people don't need a website to make their mind : this is plain torture and all people involved must be bring to justice.”
Alex Berrios on Apr 12, 2012 at 16:01:37
“It is one thing to prevent self injury, BUT you have to look at the antecedent for the behavior. He did not want to remove the coat? or He did not follow instructions? It would be a different story if he had began any self injurious behavior or began to charge at them. He did neither of those. In any event after he was restrained on the ground shocking him serves NO purpose.
and to your comment on "without intervention, most of these patients would need to be completely restrained 24/7 to prevent extreme self injury"
Would YOU rather be restrained 24/7 or shocked 24/7...restrain me any day”
SoloLupo on Apr 12, 2012 at 15:42:15
“Please advise me what is the difference between having clinicians administer shocks versus the patient inflicting "extreme self injury"? Is there really a difference in how this feels? Please inform me. Based on what you stated Proc, they could cut out the overhead of paying a clinician to administer the abuse if the patient is capable of treating him or herself. Is this sadism versus masochism?”
Cannadude on Apr 12, 2012 at 15:37:12
“There's a big difference between restraining someone so as not to hurt themselves and shocking them multiple times”
v eyepete on Apr 12, 2012 at 15:32:40
“Why don't you send us to an independent website where the facility in question is not on trial and trying to make themselves look good. Can you really be so easily programed?”
“Us highly (subjective term) evolved primates still have problems with OTHER HUMANS who are alike in every other way save color of skin. It comes as no surprise that humanoid robots still are eyed warily.”
“Our propensity to devour...to consume....It never ceases to amaze me. We can convince our self that we must have something so easily or we bend to other's will and allow the persuasion...all the while redistributing our comparable small amounts of capitol into their massive stockpile. yay”
Mar 17, 2012 at 21:11:43
“Sigh....most bands are no longer formed organically, by friends who love to make music together. They are formed by corporations in focus groups with marketing consultation. When will the industry ALLOW bands of the caliber that existed throughout the 60's 70's 80's and 90's.
For my personal tastes (and I know I a ma far from alone here) the chart toppers of the last several years, with the EXTREMELY notable exception of Adele have left much to desire.”
Mar 17, 2012 at 07:21:10
“Oh,the kid attacked him? Because everything I have read, heard and seen makes no mention of the kid attacking Zimmerman. All the reports I have seen involve Zimmerman aggressively perusing the kid against the advice of the police and the kid crying out for help.”
Mar 17, 2012 at 00:12:47
“Can someone please explain to me why Zimmerman has not been arrested. I read this article and another one from A Florida newspaper and I still don't understand. He shot an unarmed kid...am I missing something?”
RedDonnaAnn on Mar 17, 2012 at 00:54:11
“Because he's White and the kid was Black. It's so obvious. I genuinely have no idea how they are going to explain the delay. Really sickening.”
AMJ889 on Mar 17, 2012 at 00:35:20
“I can.. The police report most likely states Mr zimmerman was attacked by this kid and defended him self after most likely losing the fight and shot in self defense nothing to do with the kid being black..”
UnknownSolider on Mar 17, 2012 at 00:34:29
“This is the question we are all waiting for the Sanford police dept to answer completely.”
“OPEN LETTER TO ALL WOMEN: Please stop hurting yourself. I know women have allot of psychological issues tied up in their appearance, but as a man who has the luxury of speaking openly and frankly to other men on the subject of women, I can tell you that not many of us are hung up on boob size, or crows feet, or lip diameter. Most of us had much rather have a women who is brave enough to live in her own skin.”
“You say you know several hu? and that they are long term apple users and furthermore that said engineers made their choice because they are somehow above or immune to the influence of brand name marketing...A very shallow maybe at best, with nothing more than your hearsay to go on.
The information you put forward is unverifiable for me and therefore worthless.
Th dubiousness of these claims is compounded by the head-scratching fact that despite being 'long time apple users' they would abandon their beloved brand by designing the control systems as well as the large grid processing array as decidedly (and easily verified) NOT apple.”