“Adding more time in poor quality schools that don't make good use of the time they already have is not the answer. First, fix what is wrong with these schools, and then consider what is the best length for the school day and school year. Kids spend too much time in bad schools as it is. Don't make them spend more time in bad schools.”
“Complete autonomy for teachers and the same teacher for k to 5th are great if you have a great teacher. They do not work so well if you have a bad teacher.”
lanamichaels on Apr 10, 2013 at 21:08:56
“That's true - they actually require a 1 year Master's degree for each teacher (paid for by the government) which is very prestigious and selective to get into. The thing is Finland shows it's not just about throwing more money around; there is investment involved but a lot of smart, dedicated people want a decent quality of life where they can use their skills, creativity and intelligence to make a difference. No amount of legislation or standardized testing is going to make a difference if teachers aren't quality teachers. ”
“Everyone here who is criticizing Jindal's vouchers, need to quit complaining and come up with a better solution to the disparity in funding and quality in the public schools.”
eceresa on Dec 13, 2012 at 17:44:55
“Better solution: leave it the way it is. Sticking with a system that isn't perfect is better than making it worse.
More funding for schools that are handed the job of trying to overcome the effects of poverty would be better yet, and less punitive actions when they aren't completely successful in doing so, but the much-derided "status quo" is preferable to what Jindal is advocating.”
“I hate to agree with Bobby Jindal, but he is right when he says public schools do not provide equal opportunity. Because school funding is based on property taxes, kids in affluent areas go to well-funded, good schools. Kids in poverty-stricken areas go to poorly-funded, crappy schools. The kids that need the help the most, get the worst schools.”
RobinVZB on Dec 12, 2012 at 01:14:32
“Everyone here who is criticizing Jindal's vouchers, need to quit complaining and come up with a better solution to the disparity in funding and quality in the public schools.”
“The poor condition of my local schools is so pervasive that it is impossible to make them a decent place for children. The violence and poor academics are a system-wide problem not an isolated incident. Actually, I had a lawyer and filed a complaint with the state board of education. There was nothing that ever could have persuaded me to put my kids back in our local schools.
I actually think that if some non-profit organizations were to try providing online schools, that it could be made into an excellent option. I think it is the greed that cause these schools to provide the cheapest, poorest quality education possible. I don't think everybody should be so quick to condemn online schools, in general. I think you should be condemning for-profit schools, instead. I am all for online and brick and mortar charter schools that are operated by non-profits. Kids need to be able to get away from lousy public schools.”
TINA ANDRES on Dec 2, 2012 at 21:38:13
“While I agree that there are many non-profit charter schools that are excellent (my own child attends one), the for profit online schools are simply a model made to siphon public school dollars and provide very little service to students. I'm sorry you have had such a poor experience with your own local schools. ”
“Ours was a temporary arrangement. We needed something immediately. Other charter schools and private schools require that you apply in the spring for the next school year. We were desperate. I know as well as anybody that these schools are not providing the academics that they should; that is the reason we did not make K12 a permanent arrangement. My kid was in elementary school at the time, and the other parents that I knew were elementary school parents. Therefore, the dropout rate was not really an issue. Parents just needed a safe way to educate their kids. It is really poor local schools that drive parents to this option. All the parents I knew that did K12 were parents that tried the local schools first and took their kids out due to poor quality schools. They are not like the homeschoolers who have philosophical reasons for homeschooling and would homeschool regardless of the condiiton of the local schools.”
TINA ANDRES on Dec 2, 2012 at 20:48:10
“I can see that this situation filled a need for you and I appreciate that. However, you are also reinforcing the idea that these schools do not really provide a valid option for long term education for the majority of kids. I guess it depends on the district but I'm fairly certain that in my district your child would have been offered a home tutor until the situation was resolved to your satisfaction. Anyone who uses the word "lawsuit" in my district gets anything they want.”
“I do want to say something about the academics since I seem to be the only person here with personal experience of K12. All the literature that my kid did at K12 was stuff that was not under copyright protection.They did a lot of poorly rewritten fairy tales and folk tales. The did a lot of poorly rewritten, abridged version of Robinson Crusoe, Pollyanna, Peter Pan, and other classics. The students were certainly not getting exposure to the wide variety of literature that they should have been. Clearly, K12 does literature the cheapest way possible. Other subjects were of comparable quality.”
TINA ANDRES on Dec 2, 2012 at 20:49:20
“Thanks for validating the logical conclusion I had already made about these programs. It just stands to reason that if they spend all of this money advertising and they are making a profit where most charter schools are struggling to survive then the quality of the education must be inferior.”
“You are wrong. You obviously do not actually know any parents that are actually having their kids attend one of these schools. My kid did one of these programs temporarily because our local schools are violent, dangerous places. We needed some place temporarily until we could make arrangements for a good acadmic program. I know a lot of these parents who send their kids to these schools. These are not the parents that do not care that are enrolling their kids in these schools. It is a lot more work having the kid at home than having the kid at school. The parents have to really care to make that kind of sacrifice. Many of these parents have sacrificed one income so that one parent can stay home with the kid. These are parents that care and want their kids to have a good education but they live in school districts where the kids are unsafe. Or, they have had their kids stuck in a very poor quality special education program. Or, their kids have had an experience with an abusive teacher. Good parents turn to these online programs out of desperation.”
TINA ANDRES on Dec 2, 2012 at 19:57:59
“This may be the case for you but their graduation rate speaks an entirely different story. I'm sure you are a part of the 12% that somehow benefits from this and I have no doubt that it is due almost entirely to your commitment and not the quality of the program.”
“I agree with you that the academic quality is poor. However, some brick and mortar schools are so unsafe and so poorly supervised, that the kids are better off at the online school.”
Sawyer116 on Dec 3, 2012 at 07:47:58
“The problem occurs when they lump all schools into the same category...a target for the wealthy, politically powerful for-profit corporations who have stuffed the wallets of state legislators. It funnels money from the ONLY school that accepts ALL students, making schools that are needed and necessary the lowest funded schools while all the money is going to the "white flight" charters. Our county is a perfect example.”
“I agree that the academic quality of these schools is poor. However, sometimes they are better than the local schools.
For example, I knew one mother in a rural area. Her 5-year-old had to ride on a school bus over an hour each way with Pre-K through 12th graders with no bus monitor and out-of-control bullying. She enrolled her kid in a K12 charter for his safety.
My kid attended the same K12 school temporarily after being assaulted at his school. We removed him in the middle of the year. We needed someplace for him to be schooled until we could arrange a place where he could get quality academics as well as a safe environment.
I was on a Facebook group with the parents of the online school students. Many of these kids are victims of severe bullying, abusive teachers, or some other very severe problem with the local schools. Parents need good options when local schools are horrible.”
phylosopher on Dec 4, 2012 at 10:02:18
“You can homeschool and they should just sell the curriculum. Or you shoud be able obtain it from your local school in cases of bullying. The problem with charters versus homeschools is that they are full of busywork which allows little time for socializing and as such may lead to isolation depression of students. No one is monitoring that.”
Sawyer116 on Dec 2, 2012 at 00:05:59
“In GA, you can check out the headline for the on-line charter school...the biggest..that is on their final warning. Too long to post but some of these on-line schools have say 4,000 students enrolled. They never check to see if these students have done anything other than enroll. They get the money so what do they care. Education is becoming a big profitable industry ripe for the greedy for-profit corporations willing to spend in ads and in getting the support of politicians....and not much else! Beware!”
“You say that teachers are not to blame for bullying and poor academic performance; it is the fault of bad parents and students. If that is true, then it is also true that teachers are not responsible for excellent academic performance and low bullying rates; it is the result of good kids and good parents. You are saying that teachers are not important. I don't believe that. Of course, good parenting is important, but good teachers are vital, too. A great teacher transformed my life; I still keep in contact with her many years later. In my kids' lives, teachers have made all the difference between a good school year and a bad one. Teachers aren't just the most important part of a school; they are the school. You minimalize the profession.”
eceresa on Nov 23, 2012 at 07:31:19
“I don't minimize the profession, but I'm realistic about it. Teachers cannot consistently do the things you insist they can. They're important, but not important enough that they can reliably outweigh the effect of parenting and culture.”
“The damage is done by whiney teachers like you who are always blaming others for the poor quality of their work. Isolated incidents of bullying occur in all schools, of course; however, when effective teachers intervene, the incidents do not become chronic. Severe chronic bullying is symptomatic of an ineffective staff. Teachers need to take responsibility for what occurs at the school. Kids should be able to count on the teachers to provide a safe environment for them. I am so glad my kids are not in your class.”
eceresa on Nov 22, 2012 at 22:46:46
“Never said I was a teacher. I'm certainly someone who knows enough not to blame teachers for things they have little or no control over, though. Where most of the parents are parenting, bullying will be rare in schools. Where they aren't, it won't. Even if some teachers are eager to be blamed for things that they can't control, that doesn't change the facts.”
“Certainly, slower kids learn from being around smart kids. However, the smart kids waste a lot of time in classes designed for low average kids. It is not really fair to the smart kids to waste their time for the sake of the slow kids.”
“I am tired of teachers who say, "Don't blame us for bullying and poor academic performance. We are too weak to do anything about it. It is the fault of the bad parents and students." You make teachers look bad. Great teachers do intervene effectively in bullying. Great teachers teach even kids of poor, uneducated, and permissive parents. Teachers should be held responsible for bullying and student academic performance because good teachers really do overcome those difficulties.”
eceresa on Nov 21, 2012 at 21:34:32
“Again: I hope that you phrased "certified teacher" as you did because you're not actually working. Someone as ignorant as you could do real damage.”
“I bet you are one of the those teachers who is always complaining about bullying being caused by mean kids and bad parents while you never do anything to help the problem yourself. Blaming others is just an excuse for teachers not do anything about it themselves. Great teachers are a lot more powerful than you think. In schools with a great staff, teachers rule the school. Bad teachers let the bad kids rule the school. All the victims of chronic bullying are also victims of incompetent school staff who fail to help the victim.”
“I am a certified teacher. In your sarcasm, you have hit upon the truth. It is the fault of the teachers. Bullying flourishes in schools in which the teachers do a poor job of supervising the children. Bullying flourishes in schools in which teachers fail to keep kids busy doing productive tasks. Bullying will never improve until teachers own their part of the problem.”
Xak999 on Nov 22, 2012 at 02:08:24
You strike quite a nerve. As a boy in jr. high school on the East Coast in the mid 70s, it seems as if, looking back on it, I was in class the very day the upper hand was given to the students. During elementary school, my parents got quite a deal on new aluminum siding for our house--because it was pink. My mother wanted me to take dance class and in return my father wanted me to take organ lessons. You see where this is going? I lived in mortal fear anytime a teacher threatened to leave the room--even for 30 seconds. I didn't dare try out for a single sport (although I swam before I walked and would have made an excellent runner). The coaches considered me irrelevant. No one taught me the rules to any sports games. After bullying incidents led me to the guidance counselor, I was deemed to be 'living in a shell' (though an honor roll student). I was dying inside during those years. My penmanship went from decent to hieroglyphics. I never once ventured into the boy's room and would 'hold it' for hours and hours. I would pick at my skin until it bled.and was chased home every single day. The dance led to a scholarship. Along the way there were a total of 2 teachers I could learn a lot from--and did. You seem like you might have been one of them.”
kva7922046 on Nov 20, 2012 at 23:27:02
“This is true. If some of the bullying that I had undergone in the 80s happened now, the perpetrators would be off to juvie and the teachers would be fired.
Broke 3 ribs in full site of a teacher when another boy with known emotional problems - he's serving life for murder now - dropkicked me. I was sitting in a chair. It was just chalked up as "boys will be boys." At least until I collapsed due to fever and pain three days later.
This was accepted as normal. Nothing happened. Even when I told them in the hospital that I didn't say anything because I didn't want to be further bullied. There was no talk of reprimanding the teacher. The boy went away for a couple of weeks to a new room, but came back.”
eceresa on Nov 20, 2012 at 22:38:52
“I hope you're not actually working as a teacher.”
“The whole topic of the speech in the Rose Garden was Bengazi. Of course, the talk about terrorism was about was about Benghazi. Why else would he have been talking about it in a speech about Bengazi?”
joejoegolfn on Oct 17, 2012 at 20:42:38
“At the time he used the word terror, he was talking about the original 9-11. Google 9-12-12 Rose Garden Speech and see what he said”
joejoegolfn on Oct 17, 2012 at 20:22:56
“Google the 9-12-12 rose garden speech and listen to it and see what he was talking about.”
“I live in a housing addition next to a public high school. Several times since school started, I have been able to hear the band outside practicing when lightning was clearly visible and thunder clearly audible. Unfortunately, the band director is just not very bright and does not understand the danger of lightning strikes.”
“At the convention, it was sweet how the couple talked about how nice Romney was to their dying son. It helped humanize Romney. However, when Romney tells the story, it does not have the same effect. "I am a great guy because I was nice to a dying kid" just comes across as self-serving. I wish he would quit using this kid's death to try to promote his own campaign. It is time for him to shut about it.”
MaryAngeline on Oct 8, 2012 at 19:23:53
“Aw, but he is trying to show us he is human. He told a couple of these "see my empathy" stories at each of his rallies this weekend. Can't believe folks fall for that stuff after all we have learned about this guy! Wonder if they passed out the Kleenex for these "weep" sessions.”
“Teachers work for the public; they should be held accountable to the public. Parents do not work for the teachers; the parents have no responsibility to the teachers.”
barbara jay on Apr 7, 2012 at 17:28:43
“You don't work for your child's pediatrician, either: But if your child has an illness and you don't follow through with the doctor's recommended course of treatment, and the illness gets worse, does the doctor deserve all the blame for the worsening?
Teachers are like pediatricians in that they can be effective when the parents meet them half way. To say that parents have no responsibility to the teachers is an insult.”
10YearTeacher on Apr 7, 2012 at 17:22:25
“The parents, being the single largest factor for their child's success in school, have a responsibility to their children AND their teachers. The responsibility to the teachers is to take responsibility of the success of their child and not try to pass off their poor parenting as a poor education from that teacher.”
Bill Jones123 on Apr 7, 2012 at 12:52:29
“By the circle of economic activity, I PAY YOUR SALARY.
I demand to see your medical records and your performance appraisal.
What do you have to fear.
Release it NOW.”
NYCSSTeacher on Apr 7, 2012 at 09:50:07
“Saying that ignores the findings of the Coleman Report, correctly identifying a“one-third in-school factors, two-thirds family characteristics” ratio to explain variations in student achievement. I do not see nor hear any mention of incorporating that into the idea of holding teachers accountable. There are other factors besides teachers that come into play in education.”
brin44 on Apr 7, 2012 at 09:07:06
“Apparently, some have no responsibility whatsoever. Just as there are good teachers, there are good parents. The opposite is true also. A good education relies on many factors -- parents are one factor as are teachers. Holding one accountable while everyone else gets a free ride is not only unfair to teachers, but to the entire educational system.”
Bella172 on Apr 7, 2012 at 04:12:38
“So, are you saying that teachers don't pay taxes? Teachers are a part of the public?Since we are so concerned with accountability, let's expose all evaluations and salaries. I would LOVE to see your salary and your evaluations. That's if you have a job.”
“You are pretty confused aren't you? Teachers work for the public; they should be held accountable to the public. Parents do not work for the teachers; they have no accountability to the teachers.
I am a certified teacher and a parent. I do not understand teachers saying parents have no accountability. Parents have the ultimate accountability. We are going to spend the rest of our lives with the kids. If they spend their lives in poverty because they are poorly educated, we share their fate. We pay for remedial classes in college. If they go to an Ivy League college, we share the joy of that, too. We have the ultimate accountability.”
Anodizer on Apr 7, 2012 at 15:28:21
“The problem is that most parents do nothing to actively promote the education of their children. Some even discourage it in various way, like providing a hostile environment to grow up in, Or simply not caring if their kid does well.
And most DO NOT pay for their childs college. They count on the gonvernment to provide a lone, and the kid will generally pay it off themselves, or not...Parents play a much larger roll in how school go's than any single teacher does, by far.”
Bill Jones123 on Apr 7, 2012 at 12:59:43
“But there is no way to QUANITFY that accountability.
And that is what we need. We need quantified, published, parent accountability, and student performance data.
Honestly, my students graduated from the very best UCs in science, and I wish I had known the mental capabilities of their friends and parents.
It would have told me RIGHT AWAY WHO TO AVOID.
I could have save so much time.
I say publish student performance data and let the intellectual and social segregation HAPPEN.
I welcome a PURE MERITOCRACY. My children certainly came out on top.
I would enjoy shaming my neighbors, their children, and perhaps you.
It is fun, in a sadistic sort of way.”
Bill Jones123 on Apr 7, 2012 at 12:56:34
“And you work for me when I shop at your business.
I demand right now to see your performance appraisal, your medical records, and any criminal convictions.
Post it here right now.
YOU HAVE NOTHING TO FEAR.
I PAY YOUR WAGES WHEN I shop at your business.”
Bill Jones123 on Apr 7, 2012 at 12:50:51
“What do you have to fear from student achievement ratings and parent ratings.
Japan does it and it works.
I trust you do a good job.
YOU HAVE NOTHING TO FEAR. RELEASE THE DATA.
Btw, how do you think you will feel when your child's teacher is rated below average and YOUR CHILD WAS IN THAT CLASS.
SOME parents will say YOUR CHILD WAS A DUNCE and that YOU are an idiot.
And they may just NOT want their smart child to play with your slow child anymore.”
NYCSSTeacher on Apr 7, 2012 at 09:15:44
“Your comment ignores the fact that teachers are not the only factor influencing education. They are the most important, but by no means GREATEST, factor influencing students in schools-class size and the quality of the school principal, for example, matter a great deal as well. How are all of these influences factored into VAM scores? Most crucially, out-of-school factors—family characteristics such as income and parents’ education, neighborhood environment, health care, housing stability, and so on—count for twice as much as all in-school factors. Again, how are these influences factored in VAM scores? Just because a mathematical formula looks sophisticated and complicated, does not mean imperfections of the formula goes away. Hold teachers accountable, but not lets place the blame on them nor pretend that a mathematical formula can magically identify all effective and ineffective teachers for us.”
“Democracies only work well when they are transparent. The only way the people can make well-informed decisions and hold their government accountable is if transparency is required.”
eceresa on Apr 7, 2012 at 09:47:34
“The first piece of information we need to all understand is that student standardized test scores depend MUCH more on parenting than on teaching. If everyone involved in decision-making for education understood that fact and acted on it, we'd all be much better off.
We also wouldn't even be considering whether those scores should be attached to teachers' names and published, because we'd understand things well enough to see that the idea was ridiculous.”
Allthosewhowander on Apr 5, 2012 at 17:22:20
“Well informed decisions can not be made based on misinformation.”
gallo48 on Apr 5, 2012 at 14:36:03
“What if the information that you are looking at has a 35 - 70% error rate? What is the clarity in looking at data that is flawed?”