“It's time to put old Pat out to pasture. That poor man does not know the difference between spiritual knowledge and superstition. Most of my fundamentalist friends know little about God,For them religion is political. They think they are preforming God's work,just the opposite.”
“I suggest we wait before we past judgement on this story. Did this happen during the light of day? Is this a small town? Where are the witnesses? These boys should easily be found,that is if the story is true. I will reserve judgement.”
Mari Hyatt on Mar 22, 2013 at 13:20:25
“To answer your 1st 2 questions, yes to both. And so far, the only witness is the mom.”
“I grew up in Oakland and did my BA and MA at a local university. I can tell you from first hand experience that we were viewed collectively and not as individuals. So when I read someone like the "Prosecutor" spout-off about not having a "license to kill", it's obvious he has no understanding of urban living in America as you and I know it. It didn't matter if you were an honor student (I was) or that you presented yourself in the best light, we were then - and to a degree - now viewed all in the same light, the enemy. Many of the police officers are not even from the th Oakland community. They live in Lafayette, Orinda, or the Berkeley Hills/Hayward neighborhoods. I want to make it very clear I have no hatred for LEO's. I know and have many friends who are fine police officers. But even they acknowledge the provincial mindset of many of those who are the "thin blue line".
I went to Castlemont High School in Oakland and appreciate your work with the students in your care. Had it not been for people such as yourself I would never have had an opportunity to get a graduate degree in both English and political science. Thank you for your service to a community in trouble.”
latoussaint on Mar 24, 2009 at 01:57:28
“I just read your kind comment and it made me cry. We rarely get thanks! I actually just got home from an art show in SF of a former student of mine who is a illustration major at the California College of the Arts, full-scholarship. She grew up in Sunnyside neighborhood, I think you may know where that is if you went to Castlemount. Not so sunny! She is the only Black student in her program, let alone from E. Oakland. I am so proud of her. Both her father and sister were killed in unrelated shootings. She actually was one of my students that called me about the dead body. She is one of my best friends now and has helped me in many ways. I actually have been trying to encourage her to create art around this very topic of the collective view of her neighborhood, her race, her demographic. She has a lot inside her that needs to be expressed. Perhaps her art will convey this to people like the "Prosecutor". Frankly, I just feel sad that people like the "Prosecutor" are a-plentiful.”
formerprosecutor on Mar 23, 2009 at 07:31:24
“I "spout off" because I am a person of color that IS from a large city; as large, in fact LARGER, than Oakland, and have seen this from both sides for OVER 35 years as an adult.
I have seen bad cops and bad criminals; too many of both.
Education is no barrier to crime.
If you really think that 98% of LEOs think THEY have a license to kill, you are they one that is delusional.
you are basing your statements on your very limited experience, one city and your point of view. Which is not valid as applied to the whole.
If what you say is true, LEO's would kill many many more suspects than they do.
I have seen officers , including myself, risk their own life in order NOT to shoot a suspect, when we had ever legal justifiable reason to do
Your statements are unfair and incorrect to the vast majority of LEOS.”
“Let's not let a little thing like "civil rights" get in the way of what's debated here. I am not making excuses for criminals OR for the police who are supposed to "protect and serve". They are to be held to a higher standard of conduct than anyone (after all they have a license to kill) and their lack of crediblility adds to the criminal behavior in a neighborhood. When good people lose respect for the law, the result is anarchy. Just a short while back a fellow standing on his doorstep was shot 44 times by the New York police who said he made a furtive move while reaching for his wallet. I am bet if someone you cared for was hurt or murdered in this manner you would see this differently. You've got to get out of Mayberry and come to the big city once in awhile. Sometimes consciously or unconsciously many of our comments are shaped by our own racial/socioeconomic bias as opposed to a search for the truth.
By the way, your name fits you perfectly.”
formerprosecutor on Mar 22, 2009 at 22:04:24
“Why don't you try to address me, Sammy N. I have been ther and back.
Fisrt LEO's "don't have license to kill anymore that you do; actually a citizen has a bit mor eleeway in deadly force,
The lack of credibility is only in your mind. Credibily is a subjective opinion.
I do understand how "good people" can lose respect for LEO; I don't have much for some agencies.
Pointing out isolated, anecdotal events has no real bearing on the millions of officers that go to work , 3 shofts a day, and (really ) never violate the law. Mention those...
And you might know I am a person of color and DO understand why some fear and distrust police, but that is NOT a factor in the tragedy in Oakland today.
You know what else dimishines ones credibility(?): Ad Hom attacks on posters that have presented a cogent viewpoint.”
“Sadly there are two sides to this story. In the last two years a few of Oakland's finest officers have been convicted of of having a gang within their organization and convicted under the Rico act of beating , robbing and torturing the very community they swore to protect. In January of this year a Bart officer shot and killed a subdued young man for no apparent reason (clear to any unbiased review of the video tape). This officer is currently out on bail and awaits trial. There was no sympathy or condemnation from the police community concerning this young man's death. Many other incidents can be cited but you get the point. Until the boys in blue weed out their own bad apples, there will be problems in Oakland and other cities in this country. Wrong is wrong whoever commits it. While I mourn the loss of life for both our city and the officers' families, I know of the long history of police abuse in Oakland.”
SusanStoHelit on Mar 23, 2009 at 01:55:06
“There aren't two sides - his family said - he was afraid of JAIL, not the cops.
Nor do THESE FOUR DEAD MEN have any incidents to be cited. Excusing four deaths because they're part of a group some don't like is quite simply wrong. You wouldn't accept it if it was four black men (because many black men are criminals, donchaknow), you wouldn't accept it if it was four arab men (some are terrorists, so it's OK, right?), it should not be accepted to kill four cops just because some cops have been dirty.
Nor is it OK to say there will be continued problems with blacks, arabs, or whatever other group, until they weed out the bad apples - every muslim is not responsible for eliminating Islamic terrorism, every black man does not have to condemn black gangs or else be part of the problem, and every cop is not a fair target until they manage to eliminate human nature (there are some bad everythings - some bad priests, some bad teachers, some bad cops) from their ranks.
Individuals stand on their own, and these four men have done nothing to suggest that their deaths are in any way something where there is "two sides".”
triplbee on Mar 22, 2009 at 23:46:51
“The Riders situation was awful and those officers should all have gone to jail. But these guys weren't the Riders, and by all accounts this was a routine traffic stop and the officers didn't do anything untoward to the suspect. These officers were murdered, plain and simple. Collective punishment is the very sin you are criticizing some police officers for enforcing. It's ironic that you seem to be condoning this as it applies to police officers.”
formerprosecutor on Mar 22, 2009 at 21:36:29
“See, hear is the deal: there is not TWO sides to this story. For that to apply, it would have had to been these EXACT cops that were involved in that scandal. What other officers did has no bearing on these brave officers whatsoever.
Nor does the "BART" tragedy have any bearing on this event.
There are dishonest , brutal cops. Thoise of us that have dedicated our lives, not just our working hhours, seeking justice for the helpless, and fairness for those that commit crimes; do not want or value "bad" cops; the cast majority of officers are honest, dedicated, intelligent people.
No profession has perfect people, not medical doctors, not teachers, not politicians, not engineers; not scientist; nobody. It is odd though that when one teacher goes bad, the boards aren't full of hate for teachers, just that one teacher (as deserved). Why don't people give cops the same respect? Cuz someone wrote you a ticket? You never had a teacher send you to detention?”
PrairieVillain on Mar 22, 2009 at 21:33:28
“Weak argument, blaming the existence of crime on police corruption.
Even if every officer in Oakland were a total boy scout, the city would still have a crime problem.
It's sad how often complaints about "civil rights" amount to little more than making excuses for criminality.
How about holding members of the "community" to the same standards you expect from the police?”