“I agree . . . "saving" is very pretentious. If they are content, what are we saving them from ?? If all the rest of us civilized folk were to perish from the earth, there's a good chance these vanishing peoples would just keep on, keepin on. That's conjecture.
But if we civilized folk do perish (slowly or abruptly), we will probably take the vanishing peoples with us due to our having changed their climate, sources of food, etc.
"watch some of their kids die of easily curable disease?" . . . I don't know . . . if that's an accepted value of their culture, I suppose so. Civilized peoples seem to assume that quantity of life (longevity) is more important than quality of life (security, contentment).
My point was that "we" can learn from "them", and that is an important reason to carefully preserve them and their cultures.
" They" are evolving too, they can't help it.
“Assuming we are witnessing an accelerated pace of climate change and all the alterations that will come . . . temperature tolerances, disease zones shifting, crop zones shifting, droughts, populations shifts, etc. I feel we can learn a lot from the adaptations these peoples have made long ago and maintain today.
Yes, we (mostly) westerners SHOULD view these vanishing peoples not only as fellow humans, but also as "once in a life-time" treasure troves of linguistic, cultural medicinal, social and political systems.
I don't see anyone else rushing to save these peoples for any other reasons right now except us (mostly) westerners.
There are NO other options other than to try to "save" them, without destroying the very aspects of them we're trying to preserve and learn from. THAT is the problem. Remember what happens when armies, missionaries, corporate head-hunters and arms dealers are given first shot at these peoples.
Our species history is full of such tragedies.”
ThePurpleDrazi on Dec 4, 2013 at 17:56:11
“But don't you think "Saving" then is a little pretentious? Are you saving someone by keeping them living in a primitive life that yes,might have its charms but also condemns them to, say, watch some of their kids die of easily curable disease? I don't think so. But that's just my view on things.”
jonathanmilo on Dec 4, 2013 at 15:34:56
“I agree, we have a tremendous amount to learn from these societies. Most of them have survived for tens of thousands of years, while we, with all our "enlightened" modern technical, political, and spiritual constructs, have relatively quickly brought our species to the brink of annihilation.
It's not just a matter of pragmatics. Their sense of orientation to the world, time, and community is often radically different from our very linear way of thinking. Without romanticizing indigenous life in any way, their still seems to be an essential way they define identity and relationship that we have lost. It could be what we need most is to remember our own "indigenous" perception of the world.”
“Yes, boys and girls . . . racism is, indeed, over.
And in it's place, the GOP is promoting a new form of citizen division . . . CLASSISM.
Though a bit more challenging to implement, any eager classist can easily learn how to accurately discern which of us Americans are worthy and which are not worthy.
By using a clever new metric of income, religiosity, patriotism, personal grooming habits and individual voting history, the GOP can train anyone to label any of us "Real Americans" . . . . or . . . . . "47%ers".
Be the first on your block to . . . . . . . .
jsgaetano on Dec 1, 2013 at 13:26:27
“Classism was around far longer than racism.
In fact, racism is a creation by those at the top of classism- it's how the wealthy get the lower classes to fight each other, rather than band together and demand meaningful improvements to civilization.”
“I agree with the argument that questions Chomsky's credentials to opine on this issue as an expert. I don't think that was real news.
I still question the Conspirators' argument regarding the "pancaking" affect such tall structures show as they collapse in a controlled demolition. That such an uncontrolled collapse would teeter and tilt those buildings so as to make them topple over rather than pancake.
Even the popular video clips of deliberate demolitions of old, antique, famous structures sometimes go arye (sp); one side blows before the other side. Even then, gravity takes over INSTANTLY and all that dense mass stories high tends plummet straight down to the ground as fast as it can. I have never seen a clip of a really tall structure tipping over, except, now that I think of it . . a fourteen story pink apartment building in Chile DID fall in that manner during the recent earthquakes down there.
“I believe Pope Francis is dealing with an Addiction to Money (power), rather than "an idolatry of money". Same parts of the brain light up when greed is experienced as does when cocaine is anticipated.
Pope Francis has taken away the expensive toys of one cardinal already, walks the St Francis walk, lives in humbler dwellings, rides in modest vehicles, speaks TO the people, etc.
For those criticizing the extravagant wealth of his church, give him time, he's new.
If he does catch on with the world's youth, watch out Money Addicts, you'll have a problem selling your expensive stuff made by impoverished peoples to empowered and enlightened young consumers.
“I understand and appreciate the need for either gender to appear physically attractive so as to attract a possible mate for reproductive reasons. We're hard-wired to do that, though we may deny it. No escape there.
But we human beings appear to have so much more to offer each other than merely appreciating orgasms and the various courting tensions leading up to them.
I think it is much easier to commercialize the "improvement" of one's physical attraction than it is to commercialize the more lasting cognitive rewards of pursuing deeper friendship or companionship.
It's hard to find the latter in media commercials or in films. Novels and writings do a better job of this, I think.
Very fascinating is the observation that feminine beauty has been morphed from a woman's natural physical offerings . . . to an unattainable "fantasy".
egoldenb on Nov 25, 2013 at 14:12:00
“I agree with what you are saying, but want to add that because humans are more than just physical appearance and the orgasms we can achieve from each other, reproduction is also a lot more complicated. People say personality doesn't matter in the equation, but unless you are super shallow, it does. I mean, have you ever seen a beautiful person who was extremely rude or crazy? I lose any physical attraction I had towards them when that happens.”
“Just so I understand your position correctly . . . you propose that kids be taught the earth is 6-10,000 years old until they're about 18. And that an omniscient, omnipresent and omnipotent being created it all.
Then, poof! IF . . .IF . . .IF they DO enter college . . . "oh, by the way kids, the earth is really 4 billion years old. Also, here in college, you'll have to provide evidence that this Super Being does exist if you want your thesis to pass peer review. Here in college we don't recognize that stuff you were taught in college ?"
“I guess my response to you last question is . . . no matter how heinous or evil are the deeds I've done . . . I am still alive and as long as I'm alive, society has guaranteed me certain rights. The Old Testament pushes the "Eye for an eye" argument which, for me, is too black and white.
I don't know what was going on in the mind of the BART cop when he shot that kid (I haven't really kept up on that story). But we ALL know what's going on in the minds of attorneys in the courtroom, win at all costs, no mitigation, no excuses, no grayness. That goes for defense attorneys as well as prosecutors.
I am generally conservative in my views of capital punishment. I don't think the government, any level of our government, should be taking our lives. There are other ways of either punishing or rehabilitating or isolating the truly and unmistakably guilty.
Chunkylover54 on Nov 21, 2013 at 15:44:09
“I would argue, that the isolation units can be worse than death for some... I understand your arguments but I would disagree with some of it.
“If "there's nothing political about this law", then why promote the law ? There is sparse evidence that "voter fraud" even exists in North Carolina (or for that matter, anywhere else in the nation). How many actual convictions . . . . three ???
Or . . . is there another, more sinister motive at play here? . . . to "mandate government issued IDs . . " smacks of Big Brotherism to me, coupled with the drones overhead, the evangelical militias springing up, the rich getting more powerful . . .
Changing the system would require both prosecutors and defense counselors to try to seek that illusive "truth" (all evidence indicating what really happened).
That's not what happens in courts today (felony or misdemeanor). The two sides compete, omit, delete, throw out and enhance the evidence they discover. That costs money. Ergo, he/she who has more money is more likely to be more happy with the trial verdict.
(hard for me to equate the Death Penalty with "the baby". . . . unless you are referring to abortion.”
“problem with the death penalty is it can't be undone
That is, should procedural errors have been made or unethical/ilegal prosecution been committed. Every time a convicted "murderer" is found innocent and released due to DNA findings or whatever, the prosecutors who put him/her on death row should take their cell space for a time.
Kevin Walters on Nov 21, 2013 at 17:07:35
“Agreed, if prosecutorial mis-conduct is indicated there should be sanctions. It would also cut down on Death Penalty cases. As far as I am concerned, the only cause for appeal should be, if there is even the shadow of a doubt that the convicted did in fact commit the crime, if so, carry out the penalty.”
Dr Drew on Nov 20, 2013 at 14:57:29
“Undone and can't be re-done.”
Kevin Walters on Nov 20, 2013 at 14:14:20
“Don't throw the baby out with the bath water, change the system to eliminate "mistakes."”
Chunkylover54 on Nov 20, 2013 at 13:37:58
“I don't disagree, that would be murder too, just like when a BART cop shoots an unarmed handcuffed black kid, he should be put to death.. that's murder, murders, rapists, child offenders, in my humble opinion are wasting space... Hard labor or death, when you take away the rights of someone, by unjustifiably murdering them, why should you be afforded rights?”
“I don't understand this argument at all that the Dems worry about loosing the Senate and then, at least, they'll have the filibuster to use when they don't get their minority way.
The Republicans have shown they would have no qualms at all about eliminating the filibuster if the Dems over used it. This is no argument.
The filibuster should be eliminated ONLY because it is not an adult device to solve adult problems. There is no reasonable, rational link that authenticates speaking for hours about things not germaine to the content of a bill.
Which makes me crazy about another issue . . . putting unrelated "riders" on a bill to either sneak something thru a vote or use as a poison bill.
. . . but, I digress, thank you.”
dgoffnspector on Nov 19, 2013 at 12:19:01
“It should be eliminated for the simple fact that it was never intended to exist in the first place.”
“Thanks for the reply. I mentioned corporations and families only in that some of us do ask why our economy and government can't be run similarly to either of the two.
"The filibuster gives the minority party a way of not approving Obama's nominees", and yet that's not what the filibuster was originally intended for. Sometimes the minority party has to admit they ARE THE MINORITY PARTY and that their will carries less cache unless they can convince the populace that their way is the right way . . . that takes patience, skill and articulation. Simply depending on endless and irrelevant talking is hardly a reasonable means to block the majority's will.
"It is a means to equalize the majority and minority" . . . but the two are not equal. The electorate has spoken . . . it was Dick Cheney who, after listening to Dems whine about one of their amendments not getting included in a bill, said, "What part of 51 don't you get ?"
I honestly don't care who is or will be in the White House. . a childish rule is a childish rule and has no place in a governing body of elected adults.
“Can anyone out there give us a practical, historical or organizational explanation (as opposed to "political" reason) as to why the Senate Democrats (and a few Republicans) have not ALREADY either eliminated the filibuster or changed the debate rules regarding stalling tactics in the Senate ??
This seemingly senseless and "do nothing" activity seems another waste of precious time and money.
There's lots of national issues to argue and reach closure on. Americans suffer.
Would a "corporation" allow this type of stalling?
Would a family ?
("Corporations" and "Families" are favorite analogies for how to run government.)”
7245677 on Nov 19, 2013 at 04:46:49
“Corporations and Families are entirely different entities. The Senate and House are elected officials - they are appointed by Boards of Directors or the Head of a family. They are elected to represent their states. States are made up of a group of people who all have different ideas and wants. It is their representatives responsibility to vote in Congress according to what is wanted or needed by their States. Thus you have a lot of different wants and needs representated in Congress. The Republicans are normally more conservitive, the Democrats are a lot more liberal. The Republicans do not like the nominees presented by Obama because his nominees are extremely liberal. Should Obama select more conservative nominees, there would be no problem. A lot of bills in the Senate can be passed on a majority vote - 51 Senators. However these type of nominations need more than a majority to pass, they need 60 Senators voting yes. The filibuster gives the minority party a way of not approving Obama's nominees. If you change those rules and the Republicans become the majority party, they would out vote the Democrats with a 51 vote count. In other words what is good for the goose is good for the gander. Once the rules are changed, it will apply equally to both parties not just now with Obama in the White House. President Bush had the same problem when he was in office. It is a means to equalize the majority and minority”
Kyle Bowen on Nov 19, 2013 at 04:42:37
“I think it basically comes down to the Democrats wanting to have filibuster privileges at their disposal in the event they become the minority party. They could be shooting themselves in the foot, potentially.”
1stfrag on Nov 19, 2013 at 04:29:37
“The last time the Dems threatened was to eliminate the filibuster for presidential agency appointments. Guess what, it worked!”
“Remember the cod pieces of yore . . .? Me thinks this is less about chastity and more about creating yee olde artificial bulge to impress the "lesser sex" (who must be laughing herself silly at this reading).
PLUS . . . unless filled with Vaseline or other lubricant, wouldn't any of these "penal" devices chaffe and rub and chap such a tender member. . . . or perhaps they are lined with artificial furs and finest silks. . . ?”
BacSi on Nov 17, 2013 at 07:15:22
“It's about control.
The Dom controls the sub when this device is used.
Protecting of their property as it were.”
sweetgreensnowpea on Nov 17, 2013 at 06:53:04
“a hands off approach to masturbation, no doubt.
another way to jack off into an artificial device while maintaining one's moral superiority.”
“I suggest that you confuse "pandering" with "inclusion" into the American scene.
Rant all you wish about the motives of the left . . . if the Republican Party does not begin to include ALL Americans in their dialogs and legislation . . . they will be no more.
And for the record, I DO desparately want a strong, rational, FEARLESS Republican Party that puts local constituents before corporate constituents.