Sioen's Comments (149)

“No, I'm not. I'm an atheist, which means I don't "believe" at all. I reject anything we cannot know -- or at least make an informed, weighted estimate of the likelihood of -- as nonsense.

That isn't a belief. It's the absence of "belief," at least in the ordinary religious use of the word.

I'm not criticizing you personally, but I think agnosticism in general is a bit silly -- just cutting off argument about some things by saying they aren't knowable, they can't be knowable, so stop talking about it -- and has always seemed a bit intellectually shallow.

We can, in fact, group things into categories based on whether we can or cannot know or demonstrate them to be true (knowability is a range, of course, as some things have more or less demonstrable data behind them and so the final status of their knowability isn't determined).

You can make up random examples of things we *don't* know -- such as whether unicorns exist -- but those are different from whether we *can* know them. Inventing an unknowable category doesn't make its lack of truth less real. I can sit here all day and posit random made-up crap, but this doesn't affect truth in the only ways we have to our senses to judge and discuss truth.”

“I didn't read Hitchens' piece, because I am an atheist and I don't usually enjoy the way he goes about his arguments...

but Wilson's rambling bit of inanity was completely incomprehensible. He doesn't even have the decency to actually build for the reader the straw man that he continually refers to; instead he just blathers on and on about some unclear referent.

I came here because of the subtitle of the story -- invoking the idea of morals. Where do we get our morals from? Wilson doesn't even address the topic.

The answer is simple, though: All the morality you need can be found in simple, secular, human terms. Don't act in antisocial ways that you wouldn't want others acting like toward you.

More simply: Do nothing nonconsensual. Consensuality is the greatest force of morality in the world, and the only thing it derives from is a very basic "even a 2-year-old can understand" mechanism. When people do unpleasant things to you, you don't like it. So don't do unpleasant things to other people. That is morality. The god nonsense is just silly stories to make stupid people feel better about their lives.”

“Hurrah for the Janky Barge! Yes, yes, yes.. =)”

“LOL, you channeled the truth. Meets Star Wars, too, now -- a couple of years ago someone brought a huge Sandcrawler (the Jawas' vehicle) that roamed the playa.”

“An individual who is self-reliant and thinking things through can also go for the ticket price plus another $300, with gifts to bring and things to share. It can also cost thousands. I've done it both ways, I like the cheaper, more sustainable-living way a whole lot better. Depends on the choices you make.”

“It's also not exclusive of fun and games. And it may or may not take a lifetime -- depends on how fast you learn (and of course whether you have a belief system that dictates how long it will take) and where you were expecting to go to begin with.”

“You're mishearing the hype if you think anyone claimed it was free of rape or sexual assault -- or theft or vandalism or fights, for that matter. We do have a significantly lower crime rate than you'll find anywhere of equal size, though.

I'm not criticizing overall, though -- both you and xderloin make good points for folks to think about: Epiphany isn't confined to one place or time, and no group or "scene" has ever had a corner on the market.

What I find most cool -- as someone who didn't need to go to Burning Man to find my zen, but went anyway and found additional awesome revelation -- is that the insanely fun spectacle doesn't interfere with the spirit of grace, it actually enhances the whole thing. Makes me think the Dionysian followers might have been on to something.

it's also really cool to be able to expose folks who are only there for the revels to the deeper meaning tucked inside. But like you said, it's certainly not an either/or thing. Mindfulness and loving kindness don't have to be relegated to some dreary, quiet nook of seriousness.”

“For someone who's never gone, you have a really bad case of "It used to be so much better when-itus."

It hasn't lost the innocence (which actually wasn't there, really, but exists only in the addled minds of people trying to remember it), it's just gained many layers of complexity, nuance and confusing depth.”

“Thank you, all-knowing seer of possible theoretical situations! Please tell us more about what WILL ABSOLUTELY happen in some alternate future world! Do you have a Web site I can go to for daily updates?”

“The primal fury of the Burn, indeed. I am gladdened every time to know I am participating, again, in one of humanity's very oldest sacred rituals.”

“Temporary autonomous zones exist and have power specifically because they are inside a system, responding to that system and showing avenues of disruption.

No, of course, it does not happen in some alternate universe where no one ever had to buy anything in their lives, but it is a great place to show people that there are other ways of interacting with other human beings that aren't so crass and demeaning as most of the types of interaction that the default world provides.

It's an opportunity for creativity and imagining change. Those are remarkably resilient forces that have contributed lots of good to the world.”

“It is that to a few people. It's also lots of other things to lots of other people. It's a sustainable garden to many of us. It's a cool place to show off the latest enviro-gear for others.

Depends on what you choose to do. Should we not allow the yuppies to come in because you think what they do is crap? The point of the event is anyone can come and make it what they want.

And you have to realize the main market for this is Americans, who are schooled from birth in the art of wasting as much as possible in order to stay alive.

The task, then, for those of us who want to control waste, who want to build a better world, is to use the opportunity that the freedom of Burning Man offers us to show other people that there ARE cool solutions to our problems. We don't HAVE to be wasteful to party our asses off.

Fun and responsibility can go together and be a blast, if you're doing it right.”

“You don't know most of the people of whom you speak. All of your causes are well-represented and actively promoted at Burning Man. Many of us gather, borrow, make and share the things we use while at Burning Man.

Used bio-diesel-converted vehicles are more and more common. Solar panels are everywhere. The sustainable ethos is part of the fabric of the event. Real hippies, not the faux ones, are behind lots of the big projects at Burning Man.

One of the goals of the event is to get those kinds of messages into a cool art forum where they can be exposed to the people who ARE there just to party. It's a great place to change hearts and minds, my friend.”

“That come-down is common. I call it Recompression. After an enlightening experience that bends the rules of society, if you don't take special effort to fight it off, organized society will put you back in its box very quickly.

It can be hard to realize what instincts and impulses are your own and which are being fed into you from the constant messaging of the consumer world.”

“No, not anyone who doesn't have any interest -- just those people who belittle it or invalidate it without any direct knowledge.

Not wanting to go is totally fair. But putting it down -- specifically in the way many commenters are, as a bunch of nonsense hype about people partying -- is being shallow and shows you don't understand the subject you're talking about. Burning Man is more than that, whether it's "for you" or not.”

“My comment is: Our crime rate is substantially lower than anywhere else and our accident rate is substantially lower than anywhere else.

I don't know the case your citing so I can't address it specifically, but I can also say in general that a few people every year don't take proper responsibility for themselves.

So for any newbies or folks thinking about going next year: Don't be a Darkwad! That means, do not walk around the open playa at night with no illumination while paying no attention to what's going on around you! Darkwads get hurt! Wear a light stick, or a strand of EL wire, or a headlamp. And watch where you're going!

Stay safe!”

“Amen.”

“Perhaps you haven't had experiences that forced upon you deep self-examination and the resulting revelation that accompanies it, but THAT is one thing that happens when you are faced with the reality that you can find or have or do whatever you can think up.

Social freedom isn't just liberating, in a Spring Break way, it can be terrifically scary. It makes you dig down deep to figure out what you're about and how you work and what you want. I've seen unprepared newbies turn into broken crying babies in the first few days because they previously had lived unexamined lives.

This isn't everyone who goes to Burning Man, for sure. For a few, it's a big party. But for many, many of us, personal revelation has come right at us like a Mack truck.

You can poo-poo that or discount it as meaningless all you want, but it's still true for the people it happens to.”

“Authentic? Not sure what that means in this context. Rainbow Gathering folks bring loads of stuff with them, too, that are often purchased somewhere beforehand, and they have no less crime or fighting or politics or anything else than Burning Man does.

No vending is no vending. Pretty authentic. I dig on both events, but they are different.”

“LOL, I love the "evil twin sister" moniker!

I've been Fair Family since 1990, and the two events are worlds apart but together in spirit.

I remember my first year at Burning Man, I came back and told one of my Fair friends that it made the Fair look like a "sit down dinner with the family" in comparison. Later, I saw that wasn't so, of course -- the extremes just run in different veins.”

“Thanks for a totally true and well-worded description. I've been 11 times, and I changed my life significantly in response a few times. The first time, it brought me the focus to realize I needed to stop screwing around and go to college.

Years later, it gave me the unequivocal message: "Stop doing drugs or you will die." I became clean and sober and have never been happier.

The last time I realized that I needed to be living more like Burning Man than the default world. So I left my job, sold all my things and decided to spend the rest of my life traveling trying to reduce the suffering of others while bringing creativity and playfulness with me. I'm currently in Thailand teaching English. India is next. And I've never been more satisfied with life -- except that I had to miss the burn this year.

But I WAS one of the naked people running around on drugs. Really, it's about what you want. Whatever that is, you will either find it or make it be at Burning Man. I also had years where I worked at the paper, worked on the traffic flagging crew, and a couple of years cooking food for as many people as I could feed.

Like life, Burning Man simply asks you to be creative, decide what you want to see in the world, and then be it.”

“I don't think he was saying anyone who doesn't want to go "don't get it," but the people who condemn the whole event as nothing but a bunch of idiot hedonism. They're the ones who don't get it.

I'd also point out that the end of that graf says "None of us do." As a Burner since 1996, I feel that more every year. It is so many things to so many people that I "don't get it" half the time while I'm there. I look at some people and think -- "What on earth could THEY be getting out of this?" And then I laugh at myself for being silly.”

“Thank you for this -- incredibly interesting, and I can't wait for the book!”

“Actually, some of us -- many of us -- have, indeed, found real connection with real meaning in social networking tools.

The nice part about the new media revolution is that we the people are free to find and decide that value for ourselves. We don't have to wait for a few old white guys in editors' or producers' offices to tell us whether there's real meaning there or not (and so often, they're wrong about it anyway).

Value and meaning isn't up to you to determine, or anyone else. That's for the people who use the tools. I, for one, am quite thankful for them and the revolution in communication that they represent.”

“Absolutely -- Oregon still has under- and overvotes, but the system is SO much cleaner. The country needs to follow Oregon's lead.”