Dec 17, 2012 at 13:11:57
“Thank you for writing this article, Mr. Wiens. Too many people in the comments are missing the point, which is that your employees need to know BASIC grammar. I don't know my grammar rules well enough to remember what a split infinitive even is, but a "See you their" jumps off the page. Typos are forgivable, but this isn't, and when communicating with customers, you want to appear that you know what you're doing.”
“I'm wondering if the adult selfishness displayed by this comment and also by the author are recent for our lower birthrate times. Sure, there's some choice in the matter, but having kids is still an accident in many cases, and it sure wasn't a choice not so many generations ago. Sounds like a lot of people here have been able to avoid kids, so they want to continue getting their way. I also think the selfishness of the "your choice, you get to suffer" comment is also a symptom of our political times. Good luck if you encounter any kind of calamity! ”
“I like the rest of your post, but I sure think society really doesn't revolve around kids at the moment. We're in an "everyone for themself" mentality right now. I'm going to pay for myself and none for anyone else! You might be in an age bracket where friends are having kids, so it might be more immediate for you, but statistics show that we're at a low point for households with kids.”
“The author's tone makes it hard for me to take seriously her somewhat reasonable option. She starts the article off with one comment from someone who the author perceives as having the world revolve around their children. (I'd like to see the actual transcript, because I suspect that's not quite how the parent put it, but it's what the author took away from it). Gathering from the tone of the comments here, the world clearly doesn't revolve around us and statistically, the number of households with children in them is at its' lowest point! Do the non-parents here have any idea what it costs to have kids? Like many costs, they are rising exponentially and income isn't keeping up. Do those with grown children realize that children pay full cost to fly now? That went away just when I started having kids. Great.
Next time you all fly with a kid who's out of control, I think you should confront the parents directly. Glares don't work because we're busy keeping the kids in line so we don't see them. Also, flying is finite. You'll be getting off the plane and never see them again. I had to sit next to someone who burped continuously. That made my flight unpleasant. I think it's just easier to target little people who stand out in the crowd. The comments here just seem to be wanting to vent about "kids today."”
Copernicus TheWinner on Feb 24, 2013 at 11:57:57
“Statistics on how many parents households are there don't matter. What matters in the argument that the world is child centered is that we have to deal with your choices and are forced to accept that burden on a regular basis. Everything should be acceptable to kids, kids should be able to go everywhere. I don't care how much you pay for being a parent, it was your choice, you get to suffer. This should be very simple”
“I thought of another way of looking at it, and yes, you can invite whoever you want to your party, but they just should understand that part of the guest list will be unhappy about it, and party of the guest list will be really happy about it!
I do think sometimes the 'adult only' option isn't thought all the way through, and this article plus the comments hopefully will help some people who might have been on the fence. I'm pretty sure my cousin who had the 'adults only' birthday party for my aunt didn't think about all these different angles, since she changed her mind part way through to make an exception!”
“Right - they are hosting a party so they should consider their guests.”
Peanut Santiago on Dec 13, 2012 at 22:18:22
“If you consider the guests.....you will often find you can NOT please everyone.
BTW, even some parents prefer to go to adult only night weddings.
Just as some young single people enjoy kids and don't mind them at a wedding.
The couple might as well please themselves in most cases.
NuttyCatLover on Dec 13, 2012 at 20:02:18
“I see both sides of this one. Sure, the reception is for families to socialize, and that includes children. The thing is, not all kids are well behaved - and not all parents have the sense or discipline to shut their kids up when they need to.
Several years ago, I saw two unruly brats topple a wedding cake because no one was watching them. I also heard a baby shriek through an entire ceremony because its mother didn't take it outside or to the crying room (she didn't want to "miss" anything). And, finally, I have also seen a group of eight-year-olds get into a food fight at the reception because they were left unsupervised and got really, really bored during the toasts.
My heart went out to the poor brides in these cases, whose weddings were ruined by these unsupervised little monsters.”
“Hm. The original comment I made doesn't seem to be here so I'll try to reconstruct:
1) If you do 'adults only', don't change your mind! I have another comment in here illustrating how that was not cool for our cousin to change a family party....
2) Have the wedding in the evening. If it's in the afternoon, from my parent perspective, I wouldn't see the point of having 'adults only'. I would see the point if it's in the evening, and especially if it's a sit-down dinner.
3) There will be people who can't come because of it. Maybe because it's a long distance, maybe they're tapped out with babysitting costs, or whatever. Yes, we might sulk because we don't get to participate as Tip #5 suggests, but we don't all hold it against you.
I can't remember what else I wrote in the vanished comment! It's interesting to see the perspectives in here. I find it selfish to have 'adults only', but I see other comments that think parents are selfish. It's all your perspective!”
“I've written some tips on how to do 'adults only' if you really want to, but now here's my case for why you shouldn't do this. (I'm echoing various comments already in this thread, too.)
1) You are hosting a party. Otherwise, elope. Be a good host. Think of your guests and all the various scenarios. Your guests will be spending the bulk of the time with each other and not you (because you'll be making your rounds to see every person if possible), so would your guests like to see other family members and their kids?
2) If you don't want to think about how this is a party, then elope. I know lots of people who happily eloped or had destination weddings.
3) Will there be a lot of relatives / old friends who never get to see each other except at weddings or funerals? This is a big family event for most people, so I'd like to see their kids. And if they can't come because they can't bring their kids, it's our loss as well as the parents'.”
MJLevesque on Dec 13, 2012 at 16:44:41
“1) You're right -- it's the bride and groom's party. There will probably be a video being made during the ceremony, which they will want to cherish and replay from time to time. If they don't want the sound of a crying baby on it, that's their prerogative. Respect that or don't come.
2) If you can't imagine having fun at a party without your children, then don't come.
3) If you want to have a family reunion where everyone brings their kids, then by all means HOST ONE. No one is stopping you.”
MJLevesque on Dec 13, 2012 at 16:41:47
“1) That's right -- THEY are hosting the party. If they don't want babies crying on their wedding video for ever, that's their prerogative.
2) If you don't want to think how it can be a party with only adults, don't come.
3) If you want to have a family reunion with all the kids, by all means HOST ONE.”
“Even though I'm against adults only weddings (and family parties - read on), please don't change it after the invitations go out. Here's why:
We declined a family birthday party because it was adults only (a cousin was hosting a milestone birthday for her mom our aunt), but we didn't tell them why we declined because we thought we were being polite. We just didn't want to offend the hosts or send a reply like "we can only come if we can bring the kids", so we just declined the invite.
We declined because we'd have to hire a sitter and this was right in the middle of a stretch where we'd had to hire sitters a lot (we are free-lance and have odd hours), and the event was over an hour away, so there was minimum four more hours of babysitting. We aren't well off so decided to skip it.
The aunt was disappointed we didn't come and we really wanted to go for her, but we didn't want to offend. Just said we had other plans.
Turns out just a few days before, another cousin who isn't as polite (I guess) said he had his daughter for the weekend (custody arrangement) so he had to bring her. So then we heard kids could come. Well by then we'd declined, and now we were kind of bummed that the cousin had made an exception, etc, etc.”
“It depends on what time your party is. If you have a lot of distant relatives coming, they might like to see each other and their kids since often it's only weddings when we see each other. You won't have time to meet with everyone anyway. You're hosting a party to which family members will be invited, so unless it's going to go late into the night, it's disappointing for some guests.”
pattio66 on Dec 14, 2012 at 08:07:44
“Fewer than a hundred people, the only person coming in from out of state is the above-mentioned honor attendant and he has no children. And no, I'm not inviting the family from the far-flung corners of the country.”
scared in the bible belt on Dec 13, 2012 at 21:46:49
“The wedding is about the bride and groom. If these two do not want children at their reception, that is perfectly acceptable. If the bride and groom do want children at their wedding, that is perfectly acceptable, too. If there are distant relatives who want to see other relatives and their children, I would suggest hosting a family reunion or an informal get together that is children-friendly. To suggest that a wedding be an event for relatives to get together and see each others' children, is missing the point of a wedding.”
“I disagree on the child-centric society comment. Maybe some parents are child-centric, but as far as society is concerned, I think we have the lowest number of households with kids right now. The cost to raise a child is always rising, but we don't know what the heck we're going to do if they want to go to college. A childless married couple might not get the child deductions on their taxes and have to pay more than us, but I guarantee that the money we have to spend on them (no, they don't have cell phones - yet, etc) leaves us with waaaay less then the childless couple.”
Goddess Athena on Dec 14, 2012 at 10:22:51
“What I meant by child-centric isn't the number of households with children, but the way many parents make their children the highest priority and their only reason for existence. I'm seeing more and more parents taking their children to places and events that are geared towards adults. For example, I was at a bar with friends and it was quite late. The band was loud, people were visably drunk, and the place was full. In walked a couple with a toddler, and they proceeded to sit down next to us and order drinks. My friends and I were having a rather "adult" conversation, and they actually asked us to watch our language. That bar was no place to bring a child of any age.
I was recently at a wedding reception where some of the people with children simpy went into a corner and changed their kids' diapers instead of going into the rest room, which had ample changing facilities. During dinner, and where people could see them.
My point is this - some parents seem to think that their children are the exceptions to every rule. Common courtesy is anything but common, and common sense is rarer.”
“No, a wedding isn't just about the bride and groom, though at the time, we all think it really is just about us! We grow up, go to lots of weddings, see lots of extended family members we never see, and realize that the only time we see these people now are at weddings and funerals.
If the bride and groom really wants it to be about them, then they should elope. If they have a wedding that they are inviting people too, then they need to be good hosts.”
scared in the bible belt on Dec 13, 2012 at 22:32:14
The people paying for the wedding, get to make the decision on who to invite. If you are viewing a wedding as a great reunion for the extended family to see each other and the kids, you need to stay home and plan a family reunion.”
Your mom also probably didn't let you in on all of these things she did behind the scenes. I'm pretty sure she didn't tell you about the hassle of getting herself ready, and you probably didn't notice that your siblings had to poop because we're all self-centered as kids. You also probably didn't need to be taken to the bathroom.
I thought this article was spot on! I, too, will bring a magazine only to find I've read about a paragraph.”
dav0001 on Jul 13, 2012 at 18:59:38
“I'm not buying anything you said. Not all kids are self centered. I do remember things that happened when I was young. I remember that there being six of us and only one bathroom we pretty much knew the routine. Maybe not all kids were observant but I saw what went on. I described how it went because I know that's how it was. Of course I didn't know every little detail but it always went down pretty simply. Sorry if my family wasn't as crazed as yours but not every family is exactly alike.”
“I want to express my support for Ms. Corneal. Thank you for speaking up for us. We don't all have the courage to express what you've said in such a public forum subject to such public comment. There are so many worse things that can happen on a plane (plane crash, stuck on the tarmac for HOURS, and Louis CK points out we should all just be freaking out that we are miraculously in a tube thousands of feet in the air - google: Louis CK flying) but kids on a plane brings out the worst. Don't glare at us from the moment you see us in the terminal.
Advice for you flying with no kids: Dig up that old smartphone you're not using, load it with games, and be ready to hand it to the 2 year old you might be stuck next to. I had a 2 year old next to me who was unbelievably tired and therefore couldn't sit still. I offered my smartphone because I had games on it, the mother refused and I could tell it was only because they wanted to limit technology. As a parent, I told her a few hours on a plane with a phone isn't going to do any damage. The kid had my phone and sat still, making for a peaceful flight that could have been otherwise.”
“If you look at any of these "you should do this" issues, it's really only that people are trying to justify the choices they made. So, if you want to work, or you want to bottle feed (choose your hot button issue) go ahead and do what you want, and when you opposing comments like Melton writes about, it's so much easier to understand that the writer is just trying to make themselves feel better about their choice, and it's not about YOU. I've done that now with my three kids and it's great.
By the way, now that I've had some kids and am around more diversity, this whole work vs. stay-at-home is just not a choice for so many people! The daycare I use is losing kids because people are out of work and so they HAVE to stay at home, and then there's so many people who don't like their jobs.
More men should think about this stuff, too, and I'm lucky to have a husband who does.”
“I'm a professor, and do not like the high cost of textbooks either. Just be very careful when buying from private parties. Students have failed my 100 level class because they didn't get the book for a long time and never caught up. They usually were burned trying to save money, and then ended up spending lots of money on a failed course.
If you can, try to keep some of the textbooks you think you might read later, such as those found in the humanities. I'm so glad that I did.”
Jan 28, 2011 at 04:03:45
“What about correlation rather than causation: those that can make breastfeeding work are from higher socioeconomic brackets? I thought this was a portion of the debate.
Do NOT feel guilty for not breastfeeding. In the "mommy wars", so many people argue for their side because they're justifying their own choices.
If only I could have taken a break from breastfeeding, I would have done it longer. If something happens to throw pumping/feeding off, it's a downhill slide. I blame nature.”
mkjsmomx2 on Feb 1, 2011 at 23:33:51
“Ummm false! I breast fed both of my boys for 6 months and 2 years respectively. I worked and I did not have a higher income, I just knew that it was the right thing to do. With careful planning it can be done!”