“So the executives that bankrupted a business and stole workers' benefits deserve income and bonuses, but the workers that produce and deliver the goods are having the executives' money redistributed to them? On what planet does that make sense?”
stuart100s on Dec 11, 2012 at 17:48:21
“There is a problem with your premise. The workers didn't produce and deliver the goods, and that is why the company is bankrupt. The workers (actually the workers union) demanded two people to do the job of one. That way the union got two union dues instead of one. The union officers got wealthy, the union rank and file got the shaft.”
Nov 28, 2012 at 14:23:47
“My great aunt was the same way. She never bought anything from the store without a coupon. She had boarderline hoarder herself. After her death, we learned she had over half a million. We all wish she would have spent it on herself a bit more and made her life a little easier.”
“I provided a few articles about how cats, both feral and non can negatively impact the environment. However, we are obviously not going to see eye to eye.
Domesticating an animal to let it run around as an invasive species does not make sense to me. If keeping cats inside is torture, perhaps they should not be pets at all, in my opinion.
I lived in an apartment complex where a lady fed the cats. So in addition to the thirty mean, feral cats constantly running around my complex, there was scat and dead animal carcasses. I'm a bit jaded on the subject. I did not take them in to the shelter, so I was being a bit hyperbolic, but I find it justified to anyone to do so.”
I am an ecologist. And I remembered reading a few peer-reviewed articles in graduate school about the impact of cats on the environment. I studied the impacts of invasive plants on wetlands, and would sometimes expand my search to read about the impacts of invasive species on other ecosystems. I do not have the time to re-read these papers and provide you with a summary, or a critique of the methodology. So instead, I googled a few summaries designed for lay-people and provided you with information so that you may read them for yourself.
My originial comment stated that I don't understand why people buy/adopt cats to let them run around outside, as they are bad for local ecosystems. Please, tell me, from where do feral cats orginiate? Do they originate from owners that keep their pets indoors? No. Feral cats, as well as "pet" cats that are allowed to hunt outside are damaging.
I have provided you with studies that back up my points. I am not your teacher or tutor, so you may read them if you wish. Or you can continue to believe that since you have no evidence of your cat killing birds, that it is not a problem on a larger scale. Can we review logical fallicies?
And do you always personally insult strangers when you have no evidence-based argument to back up your point?”
chaya on Nov 28, 2012 at 13:19:08
“I'm sorry, I had no intention to insult you. I was rather pointing out the fallacies in your arguments.
Congratulations on being an ecologist. I am a biologist. Now we have that out of the way.
Stuff you read in college and "summaries designed for lay people" that you've Googled in no way support your argument--especially when you can't be bothered to argue your point in any way other than "Go read this stuff!"
You didn't just say that letting cats outside was irresponsible, you said you would take them to the shelter.
My point is that you have not even begun to make enough of a point to me that justifies either tormenting cats by locking them up inside, tormenting cats by taking them to the shelter, or killing cats.
You want to do something for your little birdie friends? Live in an old neighborhood in an old house. Provide feeders and homes for birds. And refrain from having children.
I have done all of those. My impact on my environment is almost neutral. When you have done that, you can come to my house and talk to me about stealing away my cat and taking her to be killed.”
“You can google the studies and read more for yourself. Your sample size of one is not as convincing as peer reviewed journals.
Where is it that feral cats come from? Do they escape from people that keep their pets in their home? Or from people that leave their pets outside to run free and breed indiscriminately?”
chaya on Nov 26, 2012 at 15:07:43
“Oh, I see. You apparently read all those "peer-reviewed journals" yourself. So of course you don't have to defend your point to me.
As I have already said, the discussion was about house cats, not feral cats.
So far you've given me an argument from authority and a straw man argument.
Are you a rightwinger? Because usually I associate those kinds of logical fallacies with rightwingers.”
“I will ammend my statement. In some areas, they are the number one killer of native songbirds.
According to a paper published in the Journal of Ornithology in a Washington Suburb, nearly 80 percent of gray catbirds in their study were killed by predators, and cats were responsible for 47 percent of those deaths.
The American Bird Conservancy estimates that up to 500 million birds are killed each year by cats — about half by pets and half by feral felines.
According to ABC.org: Scientists now list invasive species, including cats, as the
second most serious threat to bird populations worldwide."
A study in East Bay Regional Park District, CA compared a park with no feral cats to one with. There were almost twice as many birds seen in the park with no cats as in the park with cats.
A study in Kansas found 83% of the 41 study cats killed birds.
There are MANY more examples about how roaming, invasive, cats wreak havoc on native ecosystems.
Cats ARE an invasive species. They are domesticated from African and European wild cats. So, I agree with you on that. I agree with you as well that people are the problem. People purchasing invasive predators and releasing them into the wild is another problem.
A cat that lives outside is not a house cat. Just because you don't want to belive it is a problem, doesn't mean that it isn't.”
chaya on Nov 26, 2012 at 11:47:42
“1. How many catbirds? Percentages are meaningless without numbers. And were the cats feral or house?
2. How did the Am. Bird. Cons. come up with that "estimate"?
3. The ABC.org study says "including cats." It doesn't say how much of a problem they are. Only that they are included: both feral and house. You could just as legitimately say, "including rats" or "including snakes."
4. The CA study concerned feral cats. Not house cats.
5. Kansas study: we all know cats kill birds. That's all the study says. Nothing about impact.
The discussion was about house cats that spend time outside--not feral cats.
My cat spends time outside. She stays in my yard. I keep a large bird feeding station. She doesn't kill birds now because there are so many birds that they provide warnings whenever she shows up.
Not everything is cut-and-dried. Not everything is black-and-white.”
“I will never understand why people adopt cats to let them run around outside. They're the number one killers of native songbirds. Very irresponsible, I would take them to the shelter, too.”
chaya on Nov 26, 2012 at 10:17:50
The number one killers of native songbirds are people: developers who raze natural areas, filling them with houses and the people who move into them.
The number two killers of native songbirds the are invasive species (birds) that have already pretty much taken over all their habitats. They not only compete unfairly for resources, they are aggressive and 1) eat the eggs, 2) push the baby birds out of the nest to use it for their own offspring, or 3) put their own larger, more aggressive offspring in nests to unfairly compete with native songbirds' chicks.
The number three killers of native songbirds are also people--who spray pesticides, killing the bugs that the insect-eating birds need to live, or bring in invasive species (bugs) that push out the bugs they need.
House cats and other predators are the tiniest possible blip against all that. In fact, predators actually serve to increase populations.”
Helgardh on Nov 26, 2012 at 09:57:01
“I don't let my cat outside because while I live very near a large city it's still pretty rural, and some of my friends when they were much younger have had cats killed by traps left out for foxes and racoons by neighbours.”
frozenlake on Nov 26, 2012 at 09:23:46
“It's dangerous for the cats too to roam outside.”
“You're right, it is a plea for attention. She is calling attention that the male, Ohio legistlatures consistently try to stomp on women's rights. She consistently stands up for the women of Ohio, which makes us all stronger. Insinuating that harm should fall upon her because she is a voice to her constituents is sick.”
“I am a Sherrod Brown supporter and not a big fan of Josh Mandel. However, this is making something out of nothing. Perhaps they should be sticking to Mandel's record as state Treasurer, and Brown's record as a senator.”
“Woah, did she really just criticize the fact that Gov. Romney "will let people die" and then criticize President Obama for pushing healthcare reform through in the same breath? How do these people walk without exploding from the contradictions in their head?”
“I have asked several people that are voting for Governor Romney what they like about him, policy-wise. All I've heard is that he's not President Obama, and he has a nice family and wife. Seriously, if you are voting for Mitt Romney, can you please tell me one real reason?”
bxmrm on Sep 12, 2012 at 08:50:26
“He's not Bush or Cheney - - "Mr. Coloring Book" and "Mr. War Criminal".”
Wayne Caswell on Sep 12, 2012 at 08:42:58
“"He's not black." That's the untold truth of their hatred of Obama.”
bummer07 on Sep 12, 2012 at 08:35:45
“I have been asking the same question for months without one answer that isn't racist. What have the people of this country become? They dont bother to see what will happen to this country just get the black man out of office.”
“She was initially supposed to speak at a congress panel on birth control. Her roommate was prescribed birth control to help treat cancer. She was going to present the argument that birth control pills have medicinal purposes.
Congress decided to not let her speak, and instead had a panel of men, many celibate, speak on the behalf of women's health issues.
THAT is her big issue. It is mine as well.
I have never heard that Walmart sells prescribed birth control pills to people whose insurance does not cover it for $10 a month.
Perhaps Nancy Pelosi can organize an all women panel discussing if Viagra and vasectomies should be covered or not.”
“"And it doesn't matter if I walk back my lies or not. I've already planted the lies into the minds of my base, and they wanted a reason to be angry anyway."”
Paul Davenport on Sep 4, 2012 at 11:03:02
bikerdude on Sep 4, 2012 at 10:42:25
“Now, that's the truth... These dispicable tactics are how the Republicans got George Bush elected/appointed twice, formulated a McCain/Palin ticket and now are foisting R&R on us.. They want people in power they can manipulate for their own greed satisfaction...
Obama/Biden in 2012”
CharlieMyBoy on Sep 4, 2012 at 10:41:44
“Exactly. It's like telling the jury "You will not consider the lawyer's comments in your deliberations." Please.”
“To me, the problem is not that the lower 50% don't pay federal income taxes. The tragedy is, the lower 50% does not make enough money to owe federal income taxes. The wealth gap is staggering in our country. The top 10% of our country controls 2/3s of our nations wealth. 31 million people control 66% of our wealth, leaving the other 33% behind for the other 280 million of us. A CEO makes 185 times more than their average worker. If you are an average worker, multiply your pay by 185. Then, decide, in this climate, who is more equipped to pay taxes.
While I agree that raising taxes on the rich is a bandaid. There is a much larger problem that nobody particularly wants to talk about. But, if we are so concerned about the deficit, the money is with the top earners. Considering the average annual income for the bottom 90% is $31,244. You can't get that much money from people that don't have money to begin with.”
“Shopping around for me is the crappy plan that my work offers, or the less crappy plan. There is already a bureaucrat deciding what my life is worth.
The difference is, the bureaucrat now is offering me healthcare and trying to make as much profit as money, at the expense of my health or not. In a non profit system, my health takes concern over how much money they can squeeze out of me.
Not to mention that a government run system is more business friendly, as my work would no longer have to subsidize my care.”