“I am well versed in the personality of sociopaths and narcissists. If the goal is to educate regarding the personality traits, that is time well spent. However, if the goal is to spend time trying to figure out an ex-spouse's personality, I consider that time wasted. After divorce it is more healthy to move on and avoid obsessing over the past or the ex.”
“Just a brief answer. He was arrested and is now dealing with criminal charges. My point was that prior to this occurrence she had attempted to obtain a protective order but was unable to get one because there was no visible evidence.”
My divorce coaching is done via the phone and my clients come from all over the United States so where I live isn't really pertinent to your question. Different states have different requirements but what I see as the problem area is regarding the counties where the documents are filed.
Since there are different kinds of orders with different requirements, it is up to the individual who speaks with the complainant to try to seek the truth about the situation. In many cases, this process can and should take a few hours. During that time, the complainant should be questioned in depth. There are certain details that will factor in such as whether or not the abuser owns a gun, police reports and medical reports. Petitions should be denied if there are not sufficient details provided.
Assuming that the required details are presented, this person should present the form to the judge for his or her approval. As we all know, judges vary how strict they are with their decisions. In a perfect world, the complainant would give sufficient detail for the order, the person accepting the form would delve deeply into the situation and the judge would be thorough and fair with regard to the decision.
The issue becomes that like with anything subjective, opinions regarding the validity of complaints vary with each individual involved in the process.”
Zalkreb on Sep 28, 2011 at 18:24:59
“Six hundred women are killed by their husbands each year in the United States, according to the FBI. Of approximately 1.2 million female deaths each year in the U.S., this represents about 0.05 percent of the total.
There may be cases where frustrated applies but the cases I was referring to were and still are real and "terrified" is the appropriate word for how they feel.
I'll use the example of one of my clients who had her soon to be ex break into her apartment while she was at work. He had come in through a window so she had no clue that he was inside. He was sitting at her kitchen table so she didn't know he was there until she had changed out of her work clothes. When she walked into her kitchen and saw him sitting there, she screamed. He turned to her very calmly and pointed a gun at her. Basically his words were along the lines of "I told you that you could never escape from me. If I decide I want to kill you, I will. With that, he got up and walked out."
I have two questions for you.
What did she do to provoke him?
What word do you think applies here, frustrated or terrified?”
715W on Sep 28, 2011 at 11:41:01
“The word that applies to your example is "criminal".
I doubt your client would have any problem getting this miscreant thrown in jail -- IF what she claims to have happened actually happened.
The cops could visit the apartment and would be able to make an assessment of the state of things, the window, window sill, exterior of the house, etc. to see proof of entry through a window.
This is an apartment, not a cabin in the woods. So neighbors probably would have heard the screaming (though that is not in itself conclusive proof of any offense -- a person could start screaming out of frustration); someone may have witnessed the window entry. Or they may have seen his car or him nearby. It is difficult to be invisible.
If the guy did what your client says he did, he should be criminally charged.
If he didn't do it and your client tells the authorities that he did, she should be ticketed and fined.
I have no idea what she did or said to provoke the guy -- if anything -- but common sense suggests that she make a self-assessment of her own role in the situation and in improving it.
Whose gun was it? Has she ever threatened him? Did she invite him to the home? Who leaves windows open these days?
More common sense: Like attracts like. As they sometimes say in divorce court, "Mother Teresa doesn't marry Attila the Hun".”
Possibly you misunderstood my words. I said specifically that there were no black eyes or broken bones. There are many types of abuse that do not show visible evidence. I have had some of my clients who have been held at gunpoint or knife point and told they would be killed if they tried to leave or told anyone. Obviously, this kind of abuse has no visible evidence but it certainly is abuse as I hope you would agree.
I'm not sure where your information regarding a husband who was removed from his home without any belongings and kept away from his kids except for brief supervised visitation came from, certainly not from my comment.
I do agree with you that it appears we are living with an antiquated system that does not work. When the wrong people try cases or defend them or preside over them, there is injustice. Thus my previous question, "How do we change a system that is obviously not working?
“Mr. Cordell, I beg to differ with your post. Like with everything, there are exceptions to every scenario. I respect the fact that you are helping men with their divorce journeys, just like I am helping women. We both have our own reasons for doing what we do and we must both keep perspective about what we do.
Many of my clients have been abused physically and emotionally but have been unable to obtain protection from abuse orders in their states because there have been no black eyes or broken bones. These women are terrified because they can't prove that there is a real danger for them because there is no visible evidence. They are helpless in their states to obtain protection for what "might" happen. Husband's who make veiled threats tend to cause the most fear. These women can't obtain any support or help in many states until they actually end up in the ER which happens more often than not.
I can't tell you the numbers regarding how many of the PFAs are products of tactical divorce suggestions but I can tell you that most of my clients have not found that the orders are easy to obtain, quite the contrary.
Your post reinforces my opinion that our system needs a major overhaul.
I believe the question should be, "How do we change a system that is so obviously not working?"
Claudia Broome Divorce Coach”
Morrisfactor on Sep 28, 2011 at 00:52:27
I'm curious what state you live in which denies women TRO's so often?
I live in Washington state. (granted, a very feminist state). I personally know of about 25 divorces in which the women were granted TROs and EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM was dismissed as having no merit. But they did the trick at getting the men out of the homes and away from their kids for 10-14 days, thus giving the women "tactical advantage" in the divorces.
I talked to Kitsap County Domestic Violence Center and the lady there told me 80% To 90% of the TRO's were dismissed by the judges at the first hearing due to no probably cause. The DV Center was upset with women for filing so many nonsense TROs, because women who DID NEED THEM were being lost in the confusion of so many cases. She was actually quite mad when she told me this.
Perhaps your clients who actually need TROs can't get them because so many false ones are being applied for that the judges are starting to require more proof?
Anyway, I'd like to know which state this is where the judges are denying TRO's so often. Thanks.”
rabbitz on Sep 26, 2011 at 10:29:21
“If women want to play that sob story I would tell men to start recording your conversations with her and bring it to court. Women are much more verbally and emotional abusive to men than the other was around.”
craichead2011 on Sep 24, 2011 at 23:50:59
“"These women are terrified because they can't prove that there is a real danger for them because there is no visible evidence"
Wow so they need real evidence in order to have their husband removed from his home without any belongings and kept away from his kids except for brief supervised visitiation? What is this, the Dark Ages? Why should he have any right to due process?”
“No matter how abandoned you feel and how sad, you and your ex are doing the right thing by your son. We can't shield our kids from sadness when divorce happens but the issues between the parents shouldn't be heaped on the shoulders of the children. I commend both of you and must say that your post is beautifully written.”
“My pleasure. I think insightful posts are tremendous for opening the eyes of some who have had them closed. I relate to what you wrote because I was in the same place. So many of my clients find themselves in the same place. All we can do is share our stories and those of others and hopefully...we can help them to avoid some of the pain we experienced. The good news is that life is great once we allow ourselves to evolve so evolve we must! Great post and great clarity. Good for you!”
“I liked your post. You wrote about the broken love story that is so common with the women I coach through the divorce process. While I don't know about the man from Schenectady and his short pants, I do know about the woman from the states who whose hubby's on dates and she can't close the floodgates.
For some reason, we as women seem extremely capable of ignoring the obvious if it will keep our marriages intact. When infidelity is swept under the rug too many times, the bump under the rug grows big enough to trip the person overlooking the affairs.
As long as there is hope, there can be hurt. So often, the swamped at work turns into the quagmire of divorce. While I have never been an advocate of snooping, there are times that finding evidence can push the jilted spouse into action or reaction.”
Monica Medina on Sep 19, 2011 at 20:11:58
“Thank you. I love your point about the bump in the rug. Would make a great title for a book. Denial, denial. I spent 9 months in that state. I don't believe in snooping either, but if he wouldn't tell me, how else? I gave him a chance. I asked him. And it was clear to me he was not being forthcoming. I had no choice, as denial had by then, abandoned me, and it was full speed ahead. Thank you so much for stopping by and reading my post.”
“Great post! I hope you are right but I'm not so sure.
As I see it, the people who seem to be able to work through divorce issues without going to court fall into a few categories:
• The unhappy marriage has gone on for years status quo - so when divorce finally comes into the picture, both acquiesce to the, "we want this to be painless" attitude.
• The couple are actually good friends but just shouldn't be married.
• There are no complicated assets or incomes involved or there is so much money involved that the couple can be sensible.
• There are no children involved or they are grown.
• There are no narcissists involved.
• The marriage has been short term.
• There are pre-pups and post-nups that are current.
• There has been no unfaithfulness or other wrong doing.
• Both have been aware of their finances.
• They have a trusted financial adviser whom they have used for years as a couple.
• Neither of the individuals has connected with an unethical attorney who is out to create animosity and even hatred in order to press the tactic of going to court…ultimately lining his or her own pocket.
With my divorce coaching, I help clients keep perspective suggesting that they avoid divorce court if at all possible. It's too bad that in our society showing respect doesn't play a higher role than greed and vindictiveness.
upsidedownjustice on Sep 7, 2011 at 12:00:54
“The last sentence of your post is the best argument I have heard for changing divorce laws. As long as the law provides for unlimited entitlement (permanent alimony), greed and vindictiveness will be the rule, not the exception.”
“Thank you. I do all I can and I feel glad about what I am able to accomplish. The saddest part for me is that the "players" in the divorce "game" seem to follow scripts. From the outside it's so easy to see but for those living through the divorce "game," it's not so easy. Forewarned should be forearmed but often it's not the case. It breaks my heart when I witness individuals who are not open to the "what might happens." Instead, they are so sure that those events won't happen that they don't prepare. (Obviously, divorce is not a game and the people who are living through divorce are not players...well maybe some are but in the context of this post, it was meant as a metaphor.)
Good luck with your new book!”
There is no need for you to deal with the old baggage of women's failed marriages, quite the contrary. The simple answer is to connect with women who don't carry baggage. Those women would be the ones who never had a failed relationship or the ones who have become emotionally healthy enough to have sorted through the issues of their failed relationships. That would require an understanding of the mistakes that both partners made and the lessons learned from them.
When individuals reach that point, they can move on to new and healthier relationships with partners who don't carry excess baggage. In most cases, they would be the ones who carry briefcases which are much more appropriate.
Debra is using what she learned to make a difference for women by offering a "heads up." I am also working to that end. Thankfully, I do carry a briefcase instead of baggage and quite frankly, I enjoy a fulfilling life. It feels great to make a positive difference in this world of ours.
I coach divorcing women because I am a woman and I understand divorce and how it works for women. There is absolutely no difference from what Debra or I do and what the men who are passionate about helping men do. There are male divorce authors and male divorce coaches. I think that's a good thing.
I give you so much credit. Like the Phoenix, you rose from the ashes and used your experience to help women recognize and deal with similar situations. I understand the value of your efforts because I am passionate about helping women for many of the same reasons.
You made points that are amazingly poignant because of their accuracy. One of your statements regarding anger really made an impression on me. Men who have anger issues that are manifested early in relationships should send up red flags to women but they don't! I find that too often women do "spin" their own supposedly rational reasons for excusing unacceptable behavior in their men. And that is the beginning of the end.
I wish you the very best. I absolutely love the title of your book.
hp blogger Debra Weiner on Aug 24, 2011 at 23:45:56
“Claudia, thank you for your thoughtful response. You are clearly committed to helping women prevail and learn from their experience, and should be applauded for doing so!”
Dolphyn on Aug 24, 2011 at 13:25:15
“What did she endure publicly? (No relation to Anthony Weiner, as far as I can tell ...)”
smooth1955 on Aug 24, 2011 at 00:21:21
“And ALL of your observations apply to women as well........I get so tired of having to deal the old baggage of a womans failed relationships...Having to bear the brunt of their unresolved resentments when any thing triggers a blast from their past... Unfortunately "I AM PSYCHO" does not come on anyones forehead....”
“First of, I must commend you on your ability with words. You are extremely talented and your levity on this difficult subject is refreshing.
The gossips who find fault with a woman who gets divorced, whether she filed or he did are... and I abhor the word but it applies here...ignorant! How dare they sit on their pedestals and look down on people who have to face the fact that they have a failed marriage?
Mothers who work outside of the home are criticized. Mothers who stay at home with their kids are criticized by the same types. I coach women through various stages of the divorce process on a daily basis and I can tell you that without exception, each and every one of them is heartbroken and guilt ridden over the fact that their kids are suffering.
Would these gossips castigate Maria or Huma? What did they do that was wrong except love men that didn't deserve their loyalty? Sometimes people have to take a fall in order to understand and sympathize. God forbid that something would happen to tip over their pedestals. My guess is that before they even hit the ground, they would cry the loudest tell the world how unfair and painful divorce is.
Yes! Divorce is indeed "suckie" and then some... for all involved.”
formerlyhot on Jun 29, 2011 at 08:44:12
“Thank you for your kind words and your understanding--not what I generally expect here, although for the most part, people who criticize on this thread are thoughtful and simply disagree. I wonder if that's because of the moderators or because HuffPo attracts thoughtful readers.
I respect those who disagree--we all bring our life experience to our opinions--but in a few people the empathy chip is missing. For others, I think some people make choices they are unhappy with and need to find justification for their decisions in putting down the choices of others. They are stronger, smarter and have less messed up kids, or so they need to believe. That's fine, if that gives them comfort. We all look to have our own decisions validated, myself included.
In any event, I am very grateful for the understanding of those who understand, here and in my community, and there are far more of those than there are of those who don't. I consider myself lucky.”
rlaspari on Jun 21, 2011 at 06:45:50
“Ignorant means uninformed, and that seems to apply here, as you must be uninformed as to all the scientific studies that demonstrate how harmful divorce is to children.
Would you advocate for a woman who chooses to beat her child? That's essentially what yo are doing here, as divorce has just as many harmful, long-term implications. Except for high-conflict homes (which are homes with violence or threats of violence) where divorce might lessen the conflict (though it doesn't always -- a big problem with divorce is that it too often increases conflict), Divorce is a very bad thing for kids. It is a thing to be avoided. It is shameful to see anyone try to defend it as you are doing here.”
“What a great article. You hit the "nails" on the head. People don't realize that the things they are doing or not doing can make a such a huge difference in how well they handle the divorce process and how well they heal after a divorce is over. Good job.”
“I think the comment, “Marriage comes and goes but divorce is forever” is totally inappropriate. It gives credence to the belief that wedding vows mean nothing. Sure, things go wrong and divorce does happen about 50% of the time. Making a comment like this or using it as a subtitle demeans the ideology of marriage. I don’t agree with this kind of attitude when it comes to marriage and divorce.
I love the idea that you will offer parenting tips, financial information and dating advice.
Your suggestion that divorced people put an announcement telling of divorce in the divorce section because that might be a “good start” makes no sense to me. I don’t understand the purpose of this or why it would be good start. Maybe the idea is similar to divorce parties which I think make no sense either.
I do agree that a section for divorce is a good idea. The more divorce is talked about, the more help women will receive.