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David Simon On Health Care Bill: "Only One Thing Can Make People This Stupid, And That's Money"
Commented Dec 29, 2009 at 13:55:41 in Media
“bwalsh1 you said
"Liberals will argue that if the government takes over, overall costs will be lower and so the paychecks of the pysicians and nurses and other health care workers won't suffer. I really don't see how that is possible, since they can't even balance their own budget."
1. Please re-read my post. I think that I explained WHY and HOW the government can reduce costs and what is involved in processing claims.
2. I practiced medicine for over 30 years and I got an MBA in 2004.
3. With all due respect, I think that you have a bias against anything that you have identified as Liberal. Otherwise, you would not feel the need to mention the fact that it is Liberals who say what you disagree with.”
"Liberals will argue that if the government takes over, overall costs will be lower and so the paychecks of the pysicians and nurses and other health care workers won't suffer. I really don't see how that is possible, since they can't even balance their own budget."
1. Please re-read my post. I think that I explained WHY and HOW the government can reduce costs and what is involved in processing claims.
2. I practiced medicine for over 30 years and I got an MBA in 2004.
3. With all due respect, I think that you have a bias against anything that you have identified as Liberal. Otherwise, you would not feel the need to mention the fact that it is Liberals who say what you disagree with.”
David Simon On Health Care Bill: "Only One Thing Can Make People This Stupid, And That's Money"
Commented Dec 28, 2009 at 16:32:09 in Media
“If Reagan could fire the air traffic controlers in 1981 and Bush/Cheney could invade a tiny oil rich Arab country that did not attack us and was no danger to us in 2003, why can't the private, for profit, health insurance companies be nationalized????”
Skygazer replied on Dec 28, 2009 at 17:40:39
“Good question.
Patco was under fed. discretion, and in a declared national emergency they could be broken up. It was extreme, harsh, anti-union, and set back air traffic control in this country, but lawful. They were politically pwerless.
Bush/Cheney were and are war criminals whose malfeasance is of a sickening magnitude who took us on a wild goose chase that broke the bank and killed 4000 American servicemen and tens of thousands of Iraqi's for oil and Haliburton and Blackwater. The Iraqi's were politically powerless and this country was in shock, terrified of WMD's and decided to trust Bush and Cheney.
Health insurance companies have shown themselves to be a completely different animal. One that controls dems as much as the GOP, and a dangerous political enemy. The best chance was to legislate a public option or expaned medicare, but I think now the idea is to take the long range view and amend the bill somewhere down the line. Although, maybe if they did something egregious like screw people over right and left (which I'm sure they will attempt, as they've certainly been given enough rope) , maybe the government will step in at some point.
Obama's got a lot of irons in the fire, but another six months or a year of this conservative-lite bending over backwards corporatism and I'll want him impeached. I still have faith though, for now.”
Patco was under fed. discretion, and in a declared national emergency they could be broken up. It was extreme, harsh, anti-union, and set back air traffic control in this country, but lawful. They were politically pwerless.
Bush/Cheney were and are war criminals whose malfeasance is of a sickening magnitude who took us on a wild goose chase that broke the bank and killed 4000 American servicemen and tens of thousands of Iraqi's for oil and Haliburton and Blackwater. The Iraqi's were politically powerless and this country was in shock, terrified of WMD's and decided to trust Bush and Cheney.
Health insurance companies have shown themselves to be a completely different animal. One that controls dems as much as the GOP, and a dangerous political enemy. The best chance was to legislate a public option or expaned medicare, but I think now the idea is to take the long range view and amend the bill somewhere down the line. Although, maybe if they did something egregious like screw people over right and left (which I'm sure they will attempt, as they've certainly been given enough rope) , maybe the government will step in at some point.
Obama's got a lot of irons in the fire, but another six months or a year of this conservative-lite bending over backwards corporatism and I'll want him impeached. I still have faith though, for now.”
David Simon On Health Care Bill: "Only One Thing Can Make People This Stupid, And That's Money"
Commented Dec 28, 2009 at 15:53:25 in Media
“Indiana should be a model for the whole country. There is a patient's compensation fund, that physician and a physician panel that reviews all cases.”
David Simon On Health Care Bill: "Only One Thing Can Make People This Stupid, And That's Money"
Commented Dec 28, 2009 at 15:48:04 in Media
“Keep on believing that our brand of Fascist Medicine is better than Socialized Medicine and the private , for profit, health care insurance companies will laugh all the way to the bank as they flip us all the finger.”
David Simon On Health Care Bill: "Only One Thing Can Make People This Stupid, And That's Money"
Commented Dec 28, 2009 at 15:45:12 in Media
“Corporations own this country. They ARE this country. They make the decisions.
As a result we have FASCIST MEDICINE in the USA. At least socialized medicine works in Scandanavia and Continental Europe.”
As a result we have FASCIST MEDICINE in the USA. At least socialized medicine works in Scandanavia and Continental Europe.”
David Simon On Health Care Bill: "Only One Thing Can Make People This Stupid, And That's Money"
Commented Dec 28, 2009 at 15:41:40 in Media
“Competition between private companies cannot improve anything.
“If the rule is that free enterprise generally results in producing a better product for more people, private for profit, health care insurance companies are the exception that proves that rule.
Apart from humanitarian considerations, cold blooded economics principles argue that private for profit health care insurance companies are basically very different from, say, companies that manufacture and market cars in the following ways.
1. Demand for health care is INELASTIC meaning you will pay any price to get it particularly when your life is at stake, therefore the law of supply and demand CANNOT work.
That is why pricing is regulated in civilized countries and profiting from basic care is outlawed.”
2. Competition apparently does not work for private health care insurance companies in the same way that it does for others marketing other goods and services. Health care spending is mostly non-discretional and therefore the law of supply and demand in the marketplace really does not function.
3. If the insurance is paid for by the employer but used by the employee, that also changes things.
4. Finally the insurance company has financial incentive of denying claims thus marketing an inferior product.”
I was a physician for over 30 years and I got an MBA in 2004.”””
“If the rule is that free enterprise generally results in producing a better product for more people, private for profit, health care insurance companies are the exception that proves that rule.
Apart from humanitarian considerations, cold blooded economics principles argue that private for profit health care insurance companies are basically very different from, say, companies that manufacture and market cars in the following ways.
1. Demand for health care is INELASTIC meaning you will pay any price to get it particularly when your life is at stake, therefore the law of supply and demand CANNOT work.
That is why pricing is regulated in civilized countries and profiting from basic care is outlawed.”
2. Competition apparently does not work for private health care insurance companies in the same way that it does for others marketing other goods and services. Health care spending is mostly non-discretional and therefore the law of supply and demand in the marketplace really does not function.
3. If the insurance is paid for by the employer but used by the employee, that also changes things.
4. Finally the insurance company has financial incentive of denying claims thus marketing an inferior product.”
I was a physician for over 30 years and I got an MBA in 2004.”””
David Simon On Health Care Bill: "Only One Thing Can Make People This Stupid, And That's Money"
Commented Dec 28, 2009 at 15:16:39 in Media
“As long as our government continues to sanction private, for profit, health care insurance companies, we will continue to have fascist medicine in the USA. Some degree of "socialized medicine might be worth consideration. It works well in Scandinavia and Continental Europe but not as well in Britain.”
mtracy9 replied on Dec 28, 2009 at 16:01:32
“In this country, if you become disgruntled about the private insurance industry, you have no where to turn -- you have no public option, unless you are over 65 years old.”
bwalsh1 replied on Dec 28, 2009 at 15:27:49
“It works well, but the governments in socialist countries have extreme limits on the private sector. Basically, this means that if you become disgruntled with the way the government run system is handling your care, there are few alternatives for you to turn to.
Medicaid and Medicare are socialized medicine, so we already have a government run system in place. Many people, such as myself, simply want to ensure that the government run system does not become the only system. I've been on medicaid, and I prefer private insurance.
I agree reform is needed. More competition between insurance companies and tort reform could help lower prices, but obviously Congress has no interest in monopoly busting.”
Medicaid and Medicare are socialized medicine, so we already have a government run system in place. Many people, such as myself, simply want to ensure that the government run system does not become the only system. I've been on medicaid, and I prefer private insurance.
I agree reform is needed. More competition between insurance companies and tort reform could help lower prices, but obviously Congress has no interest in monopoly busting.”
David Simon On Health Care Bill: "Only One Thing Can Make People This Stupid, And That's Money"
Commented Dec 28, 2009 at 15:09:40 in Media
“Therefore private, for profit health care insurance companies should be nationalized and run like Medicare or should be made to be not for profit.”
Skygazer replied on Dec 28, 2009 at 15:23:48
“I think everyone understands this on a certain level, although it needs to be repeated over and over. But the health care insurance companies are too wealthy, too powerful and they own too many lawmakers, lock, stock and barrel, it would seem. Their very own dysfunction and greed seems to make them more powerful and more intransigent and deaf to the needs of the country. It's such a messed up cycle. It's like they're a different class of business not constrained by the law that governs others. In other words they're a spreading cancer that needs massive and decisive life-saving action intervention.”
David Simon On Health Care Bill: "Only One Thing Can Make People This Stupid, And That's Money"
Commented Dec 28, 2009 at 15:07:24 in Media
“I agree with that!”
David Simon On Health Care Bill: "Only One Thing Can Make People This Stupid, And That's Money"
Commented Dec 28, 2009 at 15:06:31 in Media
“Products can be goods or services. For profit, private health care insurance companies market a product but it is an inferior one. The product of Medicare is better and cheaper.”
jayraye replied on Dec 28, 2009 at 23:11:37
“For profit Insurance is niether a good nor a service. It is the Promise of $ for a service (healthcare), a promise made to be broken by the scam artists who write the fine print in the contract.”
David Simon On Health Care Bill: "Only One Thing Can Make People This Stupid, And That's Money"
Commented Dec 28, 2009 at 15:03:16 in Media
“GHW Bush (The Elder) was a one term President. GW Bush (The Lesser) was a two term President. I submit that the legacy of the former will be better than the latter.”
David Simon On Health Care Bill: "Only One Thing Can Make People This Stupid, And That's Money"
Commented Dec 28, 2009 at 15:00:33 in Media
“Administrative expenses for medicare are 2%. adminstrative expenses for private for profit health care insurance companies is 20-25% .
What does Medicare and Private for profit health care insurance companies have in common.
It is necessary to have personnel and systems that can navigate through DRGs (diagnosis related groups) and CPTs (current procedure terminology), billing codes, etc. Overhead for Medicare is about 2% and private insurance companies have an overhead of 20-25%. The difference between the two is the function in private insurance companies of NOT providing funds for healthcare for the purpose of generating profit for CEOs, top management and stockholders. We can continue to have free enterprise as defined by those who are pimping off of health care professionals or we can have health care in the USA as inexpensively and as good as 36 or so other industrialized nations. BUT WE CANNOT HAVE BOTH WE NEED TO NATIONALIZE THE HEALTHCARE INSURANCE COMPANIES OR MAKE THEM NOT FOR PROFIT””””””
What does Medicare and Private for profit health care insurance companies have in common.
It is necessary to have personnel and systems that can navigate through DRGs (diagnosis related groups) and CPTs (current procedure terminology), billing codes, etc. Overhead for Medicare is about 2% and private insurance companies have an overhead of 20-25%. The difference between the two is the function in private insurance companies of NOT providing funds for healthcare for the purpose of generating profit for CEOs, top management and stockholders. We can continue to have free enterprise as defined by those who are pimping off of health care professionals or we can have health care in the USA as inexpensively and as good as 36 or so other industrialized nations. BUT WE CANNOT HAVE BOTH WE NEED TO NATIONALIZE THE HEALTHCARE INSURANCE COMPANIES OR MAKE THEM NOT FOR PROFIT””””””
bwalsh1 replied on Dec 28, 2009 at 15:38:09
“I've been on Medicaid, and I have relatives who work in various aspects of the medical profession, including a mother who is an RN in the military.
Medicaid is only viable because they set the prices. They will only reimburse physicians, hospitals, and clinics a certain amount for services, even if those services cost more than the set amount. Medicaid patients do not pay the difference for these costs, they are not allowed to be billed for the services medicaid covers, and so the doctors and hospitals and clinics are basically doing pro bono work. Those with insurance or who pay out of pocket pay more to compensate for those who don't. That is why it is so hard to find dentists who take new medicaid patients, they will only take on a small amount of these patients at a time. Liberals will argue that if the government takes over, overall costs will be lower and so the paychecks of the pysicians and nurses and other health care workers won't suffer. I really don't see how that is possible, since they can't even balance their own budget. Canadians have spent billions trying to fix their system, all the while limiting the amount of private health care available by law.”
Medicaid is only viable because they set the prices. They will only reimburse physicians, hospitals, and clinics a certain amount for services, even if those services cost more than the set amount. Medicaid patients do not pay the difference for these costs, they are not allowed to be billed for the services medicaid covers, and so the doctors and hospitals and clinics are basically doing pro bono work. Those with insurance or who pay out of pocket pay more to compensate for those who don't. That is why it is so hard to find dentists who take new medicaid patients, they will only take on a small amount of these patients at a time. Liberals will argue that if the government takes over, overall costs will be lower and so the paychecks of the pysicians and nurses and other health care workers won't suffer. I really don't see how that is possible, since they can't even balance their own budget. Canadians have spent billions trying to fix their system, all the while limiting the amount of private health care available by law.”
David Simon On Health Care Bill: "Only One Thing Can Make People This Stupid, And That's Money"
Commented Dec 28, 2009 at 14:57:55 in Media
“““We can continue pussyfooting around with the private for profit health care insurance companies for the next 100 years and things will be no better.. It is like talking to Osama Bin Laden. They need to be either made to be not for profit or they need to be nationalized and run like Medicare. That might sound like socialized Medicine (which works very well in Scandanavia and on the European continent but what we have here is fascist medicine.
From an economics point of view, as far as free enterprise producing a better product, they are the exception that proves the rule.
From a moral point of view they are pimping off of health care professionals.
From an ethical point of view, the insurance lobby and campaign contributions have brought out the worst in our elected officials.
From an economics point of view, as far as free enterprise producing a better product, they are the exception that proves the rule.
From a moral point of view they are pimping off of health care professionals.
From an ethical point of view, the insurance lobby and campaign contributions have brought out the worst in our elected officials.
bwalsh1 replied on Dec 28, 2009 at 15:40:57
“Or, you could bust up the monopolies that they currently hold, making room for smaller insurance companies to sprout up. The added competition would force them to lower their prices to gain customers.
Capitalism will work, if you have a set of fair rules and the govt enforces them. Monopolies stifle true competition, without competition captialism becomes fascism.
This reform bill only makes the insurance monopolies stronger, as all Americans will be mandated to give them even more business.”
Capitalism will work, if you have a set of fair rules and the govt enforces them. Monopolies stifle true competition, without competition captialism becomes fascism.
This reform bill only makes the insurance monopolies stronger, as all Americans will be mandated to give them even more business.”
ibsteve2u replied on Dec 28, 2009 at 14:59:56
“Oh, how unfair - to bin Laden.
Our health insurance corporations have killed many, many more Americans than he did.”
Our health insurance corporations have killed many, many more Americans than he did.”
David Simon On Health Care Bill: "Only One Thing Can Make People This Stupid, And That's Money"
Commented Dec 28, 2009 at 14:56:25 in Media
““Unless our electorate starts becoming more like the socialized European countries, we will continue to spend twice as much as they on health care that is not as good as theirs. Obama has tried to work with the other side and now it is time to become "No more Mr. Nice Guy"
Private for profit health care insurance should not exist. There are basic differences between them and other business enterprises that produce and market goods and services. Unlike the latter where the profit motive, usually produces BETTER goods and services, when health care insurance companies are run for profit the result is a WORSE product.”
People may dispare of "socialized medicine" but what we have here in the USA is fascist medicine”
Private for profit health care insurance should not exist. There are basic differences between them and other business enterprises that produce and market goods and services. Unlike the latter where the profit motive, usually produces BETTER goods and services, when health care insurance companies are run for profit the result is a WORSE product.”
People may dispare of "socialized medicine" but what we have here in the USA is fascist medicine”
bwalsh1 replied on Dec 28, 2009 at 15:48:44
“Our health care may be overpriced, but it is still better than the care in other countries. If it wasn't, liberal politicians from socialist coutries would not travel to the US to have surgery:
http://www
There is a difference between availability and quality. Socialist countries have wider access which can help save more lives, but the US system still produces the greatest advancements in treatment, technology, and care as well as the most highly skilled surgeons and specialists. The availability of this type of quality care may be very limited, but it is still the best care in the world.”
http://www
There is a difference between availability and quality. Socialist countries have wider access which can help save more lives, but the US system still produces the greatest advancements in treatment, technology, and care as well as the most highly skilled surgeons and specialists. The availability of this type of quality care may be very limited, but it is still the best care in the world.”
David Simon On Health Care Bill: "Only One Thing Can Make People This Stupid, And That's Money"
Commented Dec 28, 2009 at 14:52:53 in Media
“We can have private, for profit, health care insurance companies OR we can have health care that costs 1/2 as much as it does now and of a quality as good or better than in somewhere between 20 and 40 other countries in the world BUT WE CANNOT HAVE BOTH. Take your choice boys and girls.””
David Simon On Health Care Bill: "Only One Thing Can Make People This Stupid, And That's Money"
Commented Dec 28, 2009 at 14:52:04 in Media
“If the rule is that free enterprise generally results in producing a better product for more people, private for profit, health care insurance companies are the exception that proves that rule.
Apart from humanitarian considerations, cold blooded economics principles argue that private for profit health care insurance companies are basically very different from, say, companies that manufacture and market cars in the following ways.
1. Demand for health care is INELASTIC meaning you will pay any price to get it particularly when your life is at stake, therefore the law of supply and demand CANNOT work.
That is why pricing is regulated in civilized countries and profiting from basic care is outlawed.”
2. Competition apparently does not work for private health care insurance companies in the same way that it does for others marketing other goods and services. Health care spending is mostly non-discretional and therefore the law of supply and demand in the marketplace really does not function.
3. If the insurance is paid for by the employer but used by the employee, that also changes things.
4. Finally the insurance company has financial incentive of denying claims thus marketing an inferior product.”
I was a physician for over 30 years and I got an MBA in 2004.””
Apart from humanitarian considerations, cold blooded economics principles argue that private for profit health care insurance companies are basically very different from, say, companies that manufacture and market cars in the following ways.
1. Demand for health care is INELASTIC meaning you will pay any price to get it particularly when your life is at stake, therefore the law of supply and demand CANNOT work.
That is why pricing is regulated in civilized countries and profiting from basic care is outlawed.”
2. Competition apparently does not work for private health care insurance companies in the same way that it does for others marketing other goods and services. Health care spending is mostly non-discretional and therefore the law of supply and demand in the marketplace really does not function.
3. If the insurance is paid for by the employer but used by the employee, that also changes things.
4. Finally the insurance company has financial incentive of denying claims thus marketing an inferior product.”
I was a physician for over 30 years and I got an MBA in 2004.””
bbarnezz replied on Dec 28, 2009 at 15:03:54
“Quite true. Supply and demand only work as a way to regulate competition when there are multiple choices freely available and reliable information is clearly provided.
1) There are very few options available to the average health care buyer.
2) The providers make the system as complicated and unintelligible as possible.
3) The provider makes more money by providing less product.”
1) There are very few options available to the average health care buyer.
2) The providers make the system as complicated and unintelligible as possible.
3) The provider makes more money by providing less product.”
jayraye replied on Dec 28, 2009 at 14:59:19
“Insurance Companies do not produce any product. They are a bunch of scam artists, parasites, and racketerrs, who are now codified by law as the Overlords of American HealthCare.”
Bloomberg On Health Care: You Have To Question The Govt. We Have
Commented Dec 28, 2009 at 14:36:21 in Politics
““We can continue pussyfooting around with the private for profit health care insurance companies for the next 100 years and things will be no better.. It is like talking to Osama Bin Laden. They need to be either made to be not for profit or they need to be nationalized and run like Medicare. That might sound like socialized Medicine (which works very well BTW in Scandanavia and on the European continent but what we have here is fascist medicine.
From an economics point of view, as far as free enterprise producing a better product, they are the exception that proves the rule.
From a moral point of view for profit health care insurance are pimping off of health care professionals.
From an ethical point of view, the insurance lobby and campaign contributions have brought out the worst in our elected officials.
From an economics point of view, as far as free enterprise producing a better product, they are the exception that proves the rule.
From a moral point of view for profit health care insurance are pimping off of health care professionals.
From an ethical point of view, the insurance lobby and campaign contributions have brought out the worst in our elected officials.
Ivana Trump Gets Belligerent, Is ESCORTED Off Plane
Commented Dec 28, 2009 at 11:07:37 in Entertainment
“Is'nt her name Ivanka?”
mileetx replied on Dec 28, 2009 at 11:15:53
“No, Ivanka is her daughter and since you brought her up I would like to comment on something. We can say what we like about the Trumps but one thing is for sure, we don't see anything in the press that is bad about their children. In this day and age where we see Lindsey, Paris, Brittney etc. in the press all the time for their bad behavior the Trump children seem to have been raised with much class and manners. Just an observation I made some time back.”
domingueza replied on Dec 28, 2009 at 11:13:35
“Ivanka is their daughter.”
Lieberman: The United States Must Pre-Emptively Act In Yemen
Commented Dec 28, 2009 at 11:00:37 in Politics
“Droopy Joe is the ultimate chickenhawk. Maybe he was never in the military but he regrets it now that he is too old to serve. At least Rumsfeld was in the peacetime Navy.”
Lieberman: The United States Must Pre-Emptively Act In Yemen
Commented Dec 27, 2009 at 17:19:57 in Politics
“Preemptied, lol well said!”
Lieberman: The United States Must Pre-Emptively Act In Yemen
Commented Dec 27, 2009 at 17:18:46 in Politics
“Why does Joe not surprise me?”
A Very Obama Christmas (PHOTOS)
Commented Dec 26, 2009 at 08:41:41 in Style
“Hey! Lay off Foxrocks ! He actually said something fairly astute the other day.
He might be smarter than he often sounds.”
He might be smarter than he often sounds.”
Senate Passes Health Care Bill, 60-39
Commented Dec 25, 2009 at 11:21:35 in Politics
“Compare a car company to a for profit health care insurance company. Can the car company say after the car has been paid for that it is not going to give it to you? Would there be financial incentive for the car company to do that? Would it be possible for it to do so. Can you be told by your employer what car to buy. Does the downsloping demand curve for cars have elasticity? Or is it vertical and inelastic like the demand for health care? Does the law of supply and demand, ever, apply at all in health care demand?”
Senate Passes Health Care Bill, 60-39
Commented Dec 25, 2009 at 10:50:15 in Politics
“Private, for profit, health care insurance companies, their lobby, Democrats and Republicans in Congress all created this mess.”
Senate Passes Health Care Bill, 60-39
Commented Dec 25, 2009 at 10:17:10 in Politics
“Yep.... Health insurance is so heavily regulated that that they have Congress and the President over a barrel and are laughing all the way to the bank as they flip all of us the bird.”
Servility replied on Dec 25, 2009 at 10:21:10
“and who created that mess?”
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