“seriously? you're going to cherry pick rankings to single out a school? thats an awful way to go about it. Fact is, Berkeley is one of the best schools in the world and still is. And I'm not even going to that school (or from Cali). I'll bet you're upset because its mostly Asian. I understand.”
“Seriously, you're argument is a nonstarter. Something like 64% of federal aid goes to for profit colleges. Furthermore, more than half default on loans which means that the government does not recoup their investment. Worse, fewer than 30% of college students enroll in for profit organizations.
No one will argue that a for profit college education is inferior to an accredited college institution.
Grouping the abuses of nonprofits with the gross abuses of for profits is a poorly developed argument an inaccurate generalization. Whatever mistakes there maybe, no one will argue that students on average receive a far better degree than they would at a for profit.
Lets face it, students who enroll in these programs do so because they are grossly underqualified for nonprofit institutions. The fact remains, the education you receive at a for profit is not a real education. Its to get that degree initial so you can be qualified for some jobs. This is all fine, but almost no one would ever enroll in these courses unless they were paid for by the government because these low paying jobs will almost never cover the cost of tuition at these outlandish places. Many local state schools offer night time degrees, part time degrees at a fraction of the cost of for profit organizations. They are nothing but a scam, and for those arguing for their need its obvious they believe in them because they know without it they wouldnt have a degree.”
Demarcus Jackson on Jan 22, 2011 at 22:07:14
“"Lets face it, students who enroll in these programs do so because they are grossly underqualified for nonprofit institutions [sic]." You are one to talk about over-generalizations. As I stated in my original comment, I will put the education I received at the for-profit school I attended against anyone's education on this message board. I got accepted to 5 good traditional graduate schools, in fact, but decided to attend the school I eventually chose due to factors related to work and family. The same argument you used concerning the motivation of students to "get that degree initial so you can be qualified for some jobs" can be issued toward students at traditional colleges as well.
Your "fact" that the education one receives at a for-profit college is "not a real education" is an opinion because of the clear lack of sources that you cite to back up your prejudicial assertion.
I think there are some very good for-profit schools and some very good non-profit, traditional schools, but your entire argument, I assert is intellectually dishonest for the most part and demonstrates clear confirmation bias against for-profit colleges based on circumstantial evidence, at best. But you are entitled to your opinion on this matter.”
“Another ignorant post. Perhaps you dont understand that minoriteis face significant issues that they feel can be best addressed by fellow minorities. How about asian cultural organizations. Are you opposed to people celebrating their cultural background? DO you feel that somehow asians should only celebrate what White people do? How would Asians celebrate their lifestyle if not by congregating in organizations together? You make no sense.”
seheart on Dec 4, 2010 at 09:29:55
“Hi, I'm a minority. Please don't preach to me about facing significant issues. Just let people do what they want to do. You spend more time bitching about white people then improving yourself. Now who is the ignorant one?”
“Let me ask you this. Do you hang out with mostly guys or mostly girls? Do you hang out with mostly family members at home or random people off the street who are white/black/ whatever?
I bet you hang out with more guys than girls, and more family members at home than others. Is that wrong? absolutely not. People like to relate to others who face similar issues.
Blacks face numerous issues that they need solace over, whether it is racism, poverty, HIV, education whatever. Furthermore, blacks are a minority and this offers a unique time to get together and have some sort of opportunity to feel connected. Please stop your false sense of hurt.”
OkieIntellectual on Dec 3, 2010 at 19:56:08
“There is a vast difference between casual "hanging out" and coming together as an organized and racially exclusive student organization. Your logic here is deeply flawed.”
patriot 22 on Dec 3, 2010 at 19:33:26
“You are correct about who I hang out with. Most of my friends are guys but not all--the president of the College Republicans (of which I am the interim secretary) is a girl. I don't feel that the issues you mentioned justify having race based groups. Racism is a problem that negatively affects many people regardless of their skin color or the skin color of the racist. Poverty is not a race-related issue either. Nor is HIV or education. These are all independent issues of which separate support groups would be appropriate.”
“this from a guy who understands nothing about stimulus. The stiimulus program by Obama was poorly designed without putting money where it needs to be for actual jobs-instead it went into silly research and going ore green. he should have put more into actual job making like infrastructure-highways etc. That was the problem. you're like of financial intelligence is apparent.”
Susanmg on Nov 12, 2010 at 18:09:35
“We ARE gaining jobs...and all the money has not been spent yet. The, of course, you have a huge, needed project like the New Jersey/NYC Tunnel project, and Christie kills it. Heaven forbid that something Obama did is ever deemed a success. That would just terrify the right, whose one and only job is to make sure this country makes no progress for two more years so they can claim (they think) the WH. We'll see.
And by the way, hgd fgdf, your 7th grade English teacher would be appalled at your (lack of) grammar and spelling.”
“maybe you should do a bit more research instead of spewing out some half-cooked answer.
pandit was recruited to Citi by Rubin by buying out his fund...Pandit made nearly 500 million as a result. The guy is filthy rich, and this was before he chose to become CEO. He joined their alternative investments only after the buyout. But he largely had no role in Citi-he ran basically his investment group. After Citi went down and the CEO was ousted Pandit was asked to join in. This was well after the poor investments by Citi. Get your facts straight.”
“And I think all of you need common sense. "tearing down the system" is nothing short of communism. Look what it did to Russia. If you want to succeed work hard in school and succeed. I wasnt saying work hard tilling as a 9-5 car mechanic. My comments are not for the current generation. My comments are for your children and our future-invest in academics and stay focused. Instead of playing games study. Instead of thinking sports is the ticket out study. This goes to all Americans and our whole country-unless you're focused on academic success it will be tough. Common sense!”
oMeoMi on Sep 8, 2010 at 17:03:59
“I practiced your basic philosophy all my life and have several degrees and training certificates in multiple fields. I have started one corporation and sold it and have owned several businesses that I later sold. The fact is, the world is changing so rapidly that the education you get today may or may not be of value to you tomorrow. My wife, who has only a high school diploma, has been earning 6 to 8 times what I earn for the past 12 or so years. How could she do that? She is good at sales and has an intuitive understanding of the political nature of the workplace and I am weak in those areas, though well educated.
oMeoMi on Sep 7, 2010 at 21:07:35
“>"unless you're focused on academic success it will be tough. Common sense!"
Your limited personal experience(s) in life inform you without inhibition of the rightness of your conclusions. What I am saying is your emphatic opinions reflect those commonly expressed by younger people with little experience at life. I have experience this myself as when I was 16 - I knew everything. By the time I was 20 - I knew about 90% of everything. Now in my 60's - my opinions tend to be nuanced whereas yours in comparison are presented clearly and even boldly - without nuance.”
“What a weak argument. Again you miss a simple point, which shows how myopic your own views are. If we did not outsource other competing companies around the world would-look at Japan, Korea, and Europe. Because Europe has not allowed outsourcing for so long they are in an economic quagmire. The only reason Germany is doing well is because it manufactures goods no other country can. The US does not compete with Germany for high precision instrumentation which have huge margins (mainly because again our education infrastructure does not support it).
Finally look at Japan-they are an economic quagmire as well because they did not outsource. Now Korea has taken over with far better electronic goods which are manufactured in China etc.
Supppose we to dont outsource...then countries with better outsourcing rules will and competition will ramp up and they will reduce costs. This cost reduction will lead to American companies being unable to compete. Loss of competition-bankruptcy and loss of american supremacy. The only way to avoid this is to say we wont buy or sell to the rest of the world-yet for the past 30 years American growth has been due to consumption of foreign goods. Goods that are made cheaply because of outsourcing.
“This is a silly argument. Again, this is based on an assumption. The assumption that not everyone can become a doctor or that they are not smart enough. The financial means exist-succeeding in school means one can go to a local college with academic scholarship and do well enough to get accepted to the local medical school. Its certainly within anyone's means.
On top of that, if one were focused since childhood on academics there is no reason to not succeed.
Also, I did not say that success can only be for physicians and lawyers. A writer and artist can succceed as well. However, shame on you to place IT on the same level as those and then put words in my mouth. You are the one who claims that-which is false. Also, you falsely equate IT expert on the same level as a writer. If you are a good writer and spent a long time focusing on it you can succeed as well. Just look at John Grisham's rise to success (poor family, hard work ethic).
An IT degree is near worthless...true IT is having considerable knowledge in more useful degrees such as mathematics or engineering.”
“Then thats a problem you will have to face and there is no real short term solution. In terms of what the US government should be doing right now...an increased stimulus is the way to go. Unfortunately the republicans dont want to allow that. That being said I dont believe that some people cannot be engineers doctors etc. That is precisely what I'm arguing against. had people focused in schoolwork growing up, studying day in and day out they could succeed. Can you honestly say that as you were growing up that you're parents made every effort to get you a good education and helped you stay focus elementary school onwards so that you learned well? Regardless of how well you learn (unless you have down syndrome) anyone can work hard and succeed.”
beattitudes56 on Sep 7, 2010 at 17:25:06
“Everyone does not have the learning capacity to be a doctor, or engineer PERIOD. Everyone is not on the same level intellectually - I am guessing you have never spent any time in a classroom setting or working with children or you would know better than to put forward such a ridiculous statement. This is (low IQ's)why there are still misguided individuals that still believe the president is not a US citizen, that he is muslim..etc.
As to the second part of your statement I don't know whether it is true arrogance or you just have no idea what you are talking about. Not everyone has both parents in a household. Before you start spouting off about welfare queens and single parent households (by choice) my dad died when i was 14. I am sure I am not the only individual that has had that happen. This is my point People like you try to apply universal truths to things that do not fit under one answer or standards. Then taking these false ideas you wish to implement policy for the entire nation.....
“thank you for your clear assessment and understanding of what I have been trying to say. I am not name calling or pointing out other people's suffering as their own fault. All I'm trying to do is show that for our country to succeed we must understand that college alone is not enough...it is inevitable. Again, we are angry at this but dont seem to appreciate the success and rise of other countries. WE succeeded merely because of the oppression and poverty of other nations. Now they are catching up. It is merely a balancing of the gross imbalance of the past 100 years.”
“you're kidding me right? you're veiled racist comment naming a bunch of indians as if they live together in America is a joke. We don't live like that here...in India perhaps but that is more because of economic constraints. As a matter of fact in Europe it is common place for family members to live together. So instead of cruelly throwing our parents in nursing homes their children support them.
also...first of all, no one said pay for tuition on your own. no one said you had to go to the best colleges. Many students can go to state universities and work hard and take minimal loans that can be paid off. If you're really upset at how your brothers can't afford college tuition ask them this...was it absolutely impossible for them to graduate from high school? To do well? last I checked you dont need to pay for high school education. Whose fault is that?
and to the poster with health issues...I'm sorry for what you went through. My post was not in response to people like you. If read carefully people will see that I clearly meant my comments for our future generations. To be more academically oriented.”
“I agree with you. I guess I should have clarified. My point was that with education people would be able to make better decisions including with politics. That's the real issue. Ignornace is not a one time thing nor unique to politics. Many people who were easily swayed wrongly were like this because they were not well versed in the nuances of politics”
weekendpartier on Sep 7, 2010 at 03:58:22
“so, HGD, what if you're a poor black man in Newark making 8 dollars per hour as parking lot attendant, just how do you pay for your tuition, car insurance, car payment, rent, food, telephone, clothes, and so on - if you're only making 8 dollars per hour? 'Cause, I know some brothers in hood - I worked with them -
You haven't got a clue about American culture. My little brother and his wife would never move into my parents' house. Nimesh and his wife in one bed-room, Mihir and his wife in the other, mom and dad, and grandpa and grandma in the basement - that don't fly here man.”
“It's entry level crapola. Your blessed parchment isn't worth as much as you think it is when stacked up against experience and a record of success. The school you attend isn't nearly as critical as the critical thinking skills you possess and the proof you've delivered in the past. Once you're past that first job interview, it becomes less and less critical to employment.
Frankly, in a world where we're a tiny percentage of the population, most of the rest of whom are willing to work for peanuts, I'm not certain there is any job safe from outsourcing to someone in Sri Lanka, regardless of the fine university you, your parents, or the state ultimately paid for your attendance at.
“Why don't you get real weekendPARTIER. If you want to work with cars then that's a risk you need to take. But if you're serious about cars and your future why not work hard go to a good school for engineering on scholarship and do well as an automotive engineer or designer. Regardless of economy if you graduate from duke etc w engineering you'll be fine.
Finally you miss the point. I have no interest squandering my potential as a valet attendant. Perhaps I recognized this and that's why I graduated first in class in high school onwards by studying my butt off every day.
Finally you clearly chose not to read what I wrote-my success is not due to family wealth. I went to college on academic scholarship. My cousins did not come from wealthy preppy families. No one in my family drives ferraris or has summer homes.
Success is more than being rich. It's about hard work. Not being. Weekend partier-or aspiring for that. Perhaps you should reconsider your priorities to avoid unemployment.”
beattitudes56 on Sep 7, 2010 at 08:46:21
“What about those who can and will work hard but are not able to be physics majors or engineers? Not everyone has the same ability to learn at the same pace so those who cannot be engineers, doctors and cpa's - want to work but where is the work for them?”
Cain Lum on Sep 7, 2010 at 03:41:09
“Success in America is directly correlated with how hard you work. Which is why the country is run by Mexican roofing crews, with Salvadoran landscapers and Honduran drywall-hangers vying for a close second-place.”
“What does IT degree mean. Lol is that an actual degree?
Its not exactly poor and rich. Its educated and uneducated. And uneducated is not just lack of college. It's getting a weak college degree like accounting. You definitely need a solid degree in engineering etc and even then a good engineering degree -at a top school (top 15) and perform at a high level to maintain a high standard of living. Its just about competition were not competin just within this country but outside as well. Or at least get a phd or md and do well. The AND qualifier is critical. Ifs just how it is If you cant hack it why should you get paid. If someone else can do it cheaper why should u get paid.”
Brian F on Sep 7, 2010 at 22:38:16
“Um, yes, it is an actual degree. Information technology covers a pretty wide range of various technical subjects. Programming, network administration, project management, etc.
IT specialists CAN get paid very well with merely a bachelor's degree, when economic situations haven't created such a completely stagnant job market. It's not uncommon for one to make $60-$80k per year with nothing more than a bachelor's and a few certifications. Which is well above the national average.
Problem is, you currently have so many folks looking for work that the jobs that really shouldn't require a degree currently do, because degree holder's need jobs, and employers can take advantage of the situation. It's understandable from their perspective, but that doesn't mean it doesn't suck for everyone else.
In a perfect world, we would all have wonderful ivy league educations. Unfortunately, that's never going to happen. Not everyone WANTS to be an engineer, either.”
Kimiko Austin-Rijs on Sep 7, 2010 at 07:17:54
“Not everyone has the means to become a doctor or a lawyer. It does not mean that they are lazy with no ambition. According to your logic if you choose to be a writer, artist, IT expert anything besides what your narrow-minded concept of what is an acceptable education is; people seem to deserve what they get in life. You have NO clue of what you speak. Please stick to medical school and leave the economics to those that actually know what they hell they are talking about.”
“are you kidding me. Unions don't help us out as much. Yes they're important to prefer corporate abuse. But not to maintain unsustainable living standards. Demanding pensions and high wages and retirement benefits a la gmc and ford is more detrimental to the health of the country yes that worker has a better standard of living but at what cost? Promoting that kind of union behavior-which would be necessary to protect jobs during economic down turns is only going to speed our demise as a competitive country
If you want a good example look at Toyota and gm in the USA toyota has for a long time had nonunion workers gm hasn't. Nas a result many gm workers w their high pensions have close to nothing now and are laid off with gm shutting plants. I'm not all corporate gung ho. But burdening companies only burdens us in the long run. Now toyota has taken over and while its plants operate here its profits go to japan.”
groosemoose on Sep 7, 2010 at 05:01:44
“Unions would work if we did not allow companies that outsource to sell to customers in the USA.”
“Again. Worrying and chastising others for these miistakes won't help. To avoid these issues getting a good education is far more important”
themouseking on Sep 7, 2010 at 03:27:01
“"Worrying and chastising others for these miistakes won't help."
I'm not sure I agree. We have a critical mid-term election coming up and many are suggesting the Reptilians are going to regain control of 1 or both houses congress. Those same entities which tricked the average American voter to elect a party which doesn't represent them are now cranking-up the same PR slime machine to do it again. Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it. Or as George Dubious Bush would say "fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again."
"getting a good education"
Those jobs have to exist in the first place for someone to get them. And today getting a higher education isn't necessarily a guarantee for career success. Many graduates who are lucky enough to find jobs will spend much of their working life paying-off their student loans.
To diagnose and cure an illness you must first identify it. We have serious structural problems that need to be addressed on a national scale. Not only is it important to look back and understand how we arrived in our present condition, only by knowing how we got here could we conceive any plan for extricating our economy and country from the absolute mess the last party left it in.”
“The problem isn't that there won't be home buying. The issue is that when people do buy homes once unemployment reaches 5 -those formerly employed in the housing sector will be long gone by then. So yes people will buy homes and yes as a result housing sector employment will rise but it wont be fast enough to take back all the laid off employees quickly. Those people will need to have moved on. Right now there's been a massive housing correction and its not going back up to the prebubble levels ever.”
WarriorLemming on Sep 7, 2010 at 11:41:37
“Thanks, hgd fgdf, you've clarified that beautifully I appreciate your time. f&f :)”
Finally. The idea that a college degree is enough is a joke. 30 years ago yes. But not now. Not when so many from other countries do so. Becoming a CPA or a english major will not carry over as a legitimate Job. If you want to make real money or have a safe job you need to invest in the time for a good education.
This isn't for all those with families or have kids to support but a rationalized and realistic outlook at where things are. If we as a nation want to succeed we need to accept this reality and work hard in our academics and instill in our children this value. We also need a reappraisal of what is considered a good education. A mere college degree is not enough. Being a CPA or likewise is not a real intellectual pursuit. As a side note I'm a med student with cousins graduating from stanford and harvard as engineers and businessmen. That's real hard work . ”
Citycat on Sep 7, 2010 at 03:26:26
“I think hgd is right. A good education is very important especially now. Just look at some of the higher paying positions. Most require, up front, a college degree while still other job postings require a particular type or level of college degree. However, even that degree may not be enough when factoring in levels of experience or other skills an applicant may bring to the table. Heck, even the ability to type correctly and fast like I learned how to do on my own over the years could be considered a specialized skill. For others, who speak a second language may be just the specialized skill that will give them that additional consideration for one of those higher paying positions.”
weekendpartier on Sep 7, 2010 at 03:09:55
“So, are you complaining? What average guys like me who graduated from a third tier university like Montclair State in NJ, and not some fancy-pancy ivy-league school like your cousins? I paid for my college myself, not mommy or daddy, nor did I get to borrow daddy's Ferrari or BMW.
My sales career at a company once owned by Intel was a joke, and now I'm back in construction (when there's work) and making more than I ever made as a Technical Sales Rep. My question is: what about the guys in high school who never considered college? Is it possible that everyone in American can go to college to become an Accountant, or Pharmacist, or Doctor, or CPA?
You assume that everyone in America has the lily-white, upper-middle class, preppy up-bringing to go to college, that we're all cut out to take calculus, and you ignore that some guys like to work on cars.
Please, get real. You want reality? Go to your nearest airport and get a job with a car parking service for a few months and get some real life experience working as a lot attendant as I did so I wouldn't waste my unemployment.”
Yes its easy to blame companies and the rich v poor gap. Yes this gap could have been mitigated without the unnecessary wars etc. But reality is that the differences in wealth is also due to education and hard work. People need to stop whining. My parents are from India and came from very poor families-poorer than American standards-here through hard work and graduating first in class as an engineer and phd and then mba my father successd. Only in america can such success happen. But you need a good education. I'm tired of hearing people say not everyone is smart bla bla bla. With hard work anyone can succeed
In college. And you need not attend elite prep schools and universities for such a success. ”
oMeoMi on Sep 7, 2010 at 03:54:49
“I think you need the perspective of a career history...”
Cain Lum on Sep 7, 2010 at 03:42:35
“You are posting nothing but fluff and bootstraps garbage. This article states that horrible, low paying jobs will be the norm for most people. No amount of "gee golly!!!!" Puritan work ethic is going to change that. Instead of telling people to suck it up and live with it, tell them to tear down the whole horrible system that devalues human dignity and value.”
“Before everyone gripes about the economy I want to point out a few issues. All of these are not going to discuss how we got here etc. Its more about the reality of the workforce.
First. Quit whining. Is there a disparity between haves and have nots? Yes. Absolutely. But to worry that only high skilled workers will have jobs is absurd. Our country cannot afford to pay well for most people because of international competition. We just can't afford to pay well for cpas and other jobs that require a college degree because they can increasingly be done by other countries cheaply. If you think that's unfair then understand that for the past 30-40 years we've had the advantages over other nations because they were still developing. Once they began to catch up it was inevitable. The only way these jobs would be safe was if these countries did not develop. For all the liberalism I see here, it seems to end as soon as the benefits move to a vas number of people outside this country. Benefits long over due to them regardless competition necessitates that many of these jobs go to cheaper places. If we didn't. And if we did what the antiglobalists demand-keeping jobs here somehow then we end up not being able to compete on a global market. I”
patrickhenrypress on Sep 7, 2010 at 04:44:33
“Then we should get out of the global economy immediately. It's destroying our country. We can't live on Chinese wages on American land. It can't be done. The cost of living here is enormous compared with China, India and countless other places on the globe. You're selling 1970's Reagan rhetoric, which began the hellish slide into joblessness. You're repeating exactly the same line of baloney they did. Give it up. It's NOT REAL.
Get out of your ivory tower and get on the road. Drive to Detroit, get out your crystal soapbox and start telling those unemployed people there that the problem is they are ignorant savages, and they should work harder. Go ahead. In the meantime, please take this right-wing, globalist, corporate apologist speechifying and shove it.”