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iridium53's Comments

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Haider Al-Abadi: Bomb Isis Or We'll Ask Iran To Do It, Top Iraqi Politician Warns United States

Haider Al-Abadi: Bomb Isis Or We'll Ask Iran To Do It, Top Iraqi Politician Warns United States

Commented Jun 30, 2014 at 15:04:04 in UK Politics

“Great! Get Iran to do it!

Sunnis and Shiites have been in a continual internecine religious war of dominance since 632 A.D.

It is not an American problem.

America's ONLY strategic interest is the continued flow of oil.
Shiite kleptocrats want money and power just as much as do Sunni kleptocrats.”
NRA: Gun Activists 'Crossed The Line' With 'Weird' And 'Scary' Protests

NRA: Gun Activists 'Crossed The Line' With 'Weird' And 'Scary' Protests

Commented Jun 2, 2014 at 22:47:25 in Politics

“When and if fascism comes to America it will not be labeled "made in Germany"; it will not be marked with a swastika; it will not even be called fascism; it will be called, of course, "Americanism."
- Luccock 1938

Armed by NRA, their Congressional stooges and the SCOTUS.

"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power."
- Benito Mussolini.

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article4113.htm
NRA: Gun Activists 'Crossed The Line' With 'Weird' And 'Scary' Protests

NRA: Gun Activists 'Crossed The Line' With 'Weird' And 'Scary' Protests

Commented Jun 2, 2014 at 20:09:17 in Politics

“The NRA will have us returning to boomtown justice of the 1870's.
They just proved it by invading restaurants with rifles and automatic weapons.

If they're not stopped, it will be "shoot 'em up" Cowboy time - again.

Wyatt Earp had it right in Wichita and Dodge City. Take all the guns.”
11 Bizarre Church Laws That Could Send You To Jail

11 Bizarre Church Laws That Could Send You To Jail

Commented Jun 2, 2014 at 19:56:18 in Religion

“Many states and the federal government experimented with Alcohol Prohibition.
Amendment 18 - Liquor Abolished. Ratified 1/16/1919.
Repealed by Amendment 21, 12/5/1933.

Alcohol prohibition was a failure
http://www.cato.org/publications/policy-analysis/alcohol-prohibition-was-failure

The effects of alcohol prohibition, and other prohibitions, now widely understood.
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/unreasonablefaith/2009/03/12-bad-effects-of-prohibition-you-should-know/

There are many parts of the country that still do not allow sales or public consumption of alcohol on Sundays.

Prostitution is illegal in most of the U.S. except for a few counties in Nevada.
The effects of prohibition of alcohol are, also, applicable to prostitution.
Prostitution is legal in many, perhaps most, other countries.

Drugs are illegal everywhere in U.S. - federal law. Some states have "legalized" medical applications of some drugs. Colorado has "legalized" cannabis - but citizens are still harassed and jailed by federal government.

I live in the U.S. Was a Marine officer - fought, and killed, in combat on four continents. Shot twice, broken back.

I stopped counting the number of countries I've visited at around 60.
Lived and worked and taught in England, France, Germany, UAE, etc.
Run a consulting business of, roughly, 250 - roughly 60% of our business is outside the U.S.”
11 Bizarre Church Laws That Could Send You To Jail

11 Bizarre Church Laws That Could Send You To Jail

Commented Jun 2, 2014 at 16:15:19 in Religion

“Oh.

So, just some extremist, authoritarian, Christian-tyranny defense Red herring?

Red Herring: This logical fallacy is committed when irrelevant material is introduced to the issue being discussed, so that everyone's attention is diverted away from the points being made, towards a different conclusion.”
11 Bizarre Church Laws That Could Send You To Jail

11 Bizarre Church Laws That Could Send You To Jail

Commented Jun 2, 2014 at 15:38:30 in Religion

“I see.

So you believe that, in the United States, Sharia laws are a major influence?

Thanks very much for your input.”

Michael Hobart on Jun 2, 2014 at 15:55:54

“No, I never said that. Note that I said "around the world." Please pay attention.”
11 Bizarre Church Laws That Could Send You To Jail

11 Bizarre Church Laws That Could Send You To Jail

Commented Jun 2, 2014 at 11:59:26 in Religion

“History is replete with examples of the damage of religion mixed with government.

“Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprise.... During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What have been its fruits? More or less, in all places, pride and indolence in the clergy; ignorance and servility in laity; in both, superstition, bigotry, and persecution.”
― James Madison, A Memorial and Remonstrance, on the Religious Rights of Man: Written in 1784-85

The settled opinion here is, that religion is essentially distinct from civil Government, and exempt from its cognizance; that a connection between them is injurious to both;
- James Madison; Letter to Edward Everett, March 18, 1823

"History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of ignorance of which their civil as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their own purposes."
-- President Thomas Jefferson: in letter to Alexander von Humboldt, December 6, 1813

A mere 75 years ago, the combination of Lutheran religion as the basis, Catholic collaboration and government devastated a large portion of Europe.
It is never a respectable argument to include religion as a force for liberty or freedom.”
Prosecutor Tells Black Congressmembers The War On Drugs Isn't Racist

Prosecutor Tells Black Congressmembers The War On Drugs Isn't Racist

Commented Jun 2, 2014 at 11:12:54 in Politics

“The criminal law should focus exclusively on interpersonal morality, that is, behavior which directly affects other citizens.

What do you see as the underlying crime to which you refer?
Possession and selling drugs?
That seems, does it not, to be an act that is a "crime" not based upon any sort of involuntary act.

Basing criminal strictures on intra-personal morality of a particular religious sect essentially puts government into the business of soul-molding for that particular sect, a task for which governments have demonstrated no aptitude.

Actual criminal acts - like homicide - are separate from the possession and sale of drugs. Just as they are separate from the possession and sale of alcohol.

We already have laws, based upon interpersonal behaviors, against acts like assault, homicide, etc.

“Of liberty I would say that, in the whole plenitude of its extent, it is unobstructed action according to our will. But rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add 'within the limits of the law,' because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the right of an individual.”
- Thomas Jefferson”

darthconservatus on Jun 2, 2014 at 12:56:29

“I think that maybe I was obtuse - but I wrote that I support ending drug prohibition. I do not buy the racism thing except for the powder vs crack cocaine penalty discrepancy. The AA community is gripped by a subculture in which violence is integral and my point was that the disproportionately high black on black homicide rate is indicative of more dealing by the AA community. Other than that we are in full agreement and the Volstead act is proof”
11 Bizarre Church Laws That Could Send You To Jail

11 Bizarre Church Laws That Could Send You To Jail

Commented Jun 2, 2014 at 10:59:09 in Religion

“Some people may, reasonably, abhor abortion as a matter of personal moral principle.

We should encourage them to persuade others in the “marketplace of ideas.”

Using government police state powers is an abhorrent religion-based limitation on liberty.

The criminal law should focus exclusively on interpersonal morality, that is, behavior which directly affects other citizens.

Basing criminal strictures on intra-personal morality of a particular religious sect essentially puts government into the business of soul-molding for that particular sect, a task for which governments have demonstrated no aptitude.

A "baby" is a born individual, a citizen entitled to equal protection under the 14th Amendment.

An embryo or fetus is not a "person born..." Not entitled, therefore, to equal protection under the law.

Particularly rights superseding those of a citizen, a "person born" to privacy, self-determination of their own body.

Any restrictions on a "born citizen" that result in state actions may not "abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."

Decisions that pit the religious beliefs of a particular religious sect's view of a ball of cells against the equal protection rights of a demonstrably "person born" are an impermissible establishment of a state religion that uses police powers to supersede the individual's privacy rights and guaranteed liberty of free exercise of religion.”

JoeFoonman on Jun 2, 2014 at 12:08:50

“I did not mention moral or religious rationale for what abortion undermines the ultimate right of an individual. Medical science has shown that a new unique living human being is present and ending that life seem to invade more than that individula human being privacy but it's essential right to continue living. I do agree that we should have freedom to act in our best interests but the line drawn has always been once it infringes upon the rights of another. This seems like the ulitmate case of that. Is there a part of that you disagree with?”
Democrats On Benghazi Panel See Role As Defensive

Democrats On Benghazi Panel See Role As Defensive

Commented Jun 2, 2014 at 10:41:48 in Politics

“Democrats are not "playing defense."
Democrats are not opposition.

They are "playing along."

They legitimize the "Big Lie" propaganda that will result.

Democrats just don't get the basic concepts:

“Think of the press as a great keyboard on which the government can play.”
- Joseph Goebbels

Democrats legitimize the platform from which Republicans will build their lies.

We'll hear hundreds of "it has been reported" comments....

“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.”
- Joseph Goebbels

Democrats have been, it now seems purposefully, caving to Republicans since the early '80's.
http://thefifteensteps.com/

Marsia on Jun 2, 2014 at 13:05:50

marinemomof3 on Jun 2, 2014 at 11:32:30

“They don't have a cojones between them all!!!”
Fellow Soldiers Call Bowe Bergdahl A Deserter, Not A Hero - CNN.com

Fellow Soldiers Call Bowe Bergdahl A Deserter, Not A Hero - CNN.com

Commented Jun 2, 2014 at 10:29:33 in Politics

“Well, "bad soldier" or not, best to under our control; he's one of ours.

If, indeed, there is adequate evidence to allegations of him being a deserter, then he must be treated as all subject to UCMJ.

If found guilty, then appropriate consequences applied at that time.”
11 Bizarre Church Laws That Could Send You To Jail

11 Bizarre Church Laws That Could Send You To Jail

Commented Jun 2, 2014 at 09:51:56 in Religion

“Really?

Hindus have been successful at getting their religious beliefs incorporated into the police powers of the state in the U.S. have they?

The point is the 1st Amendment establishment and free exercise clauses have been, increasingly, ignored by American legislators and courts.

"The settled opinion here is, that religion is essentially distinct from civil Government, and exempt from its cognizance; that a connection between them is injurious to both;"
- James Madison; Letter to Edward Everett, March 18, 1823”

Michael Hobart on Jun 2, 2014 at 15:14:13

“You miss my point, one should not attempt to blame just Christians for oppressive laws. Just look at how sharia laws are present around the world. Religious oppressive laws are also not something new. As the article points out, many of these are old laws which could not be enforced due to their age and the fact that they have not been enforced for a long time - a good tradition within English common aw.

As can be easily seen, I made no comment about Hindu beliefs and practices.”
11 Bizarre Church Laws That Could Send You To Jail

11 Bizarre Church Laws That Could Send You To Jail

Commented Jun 2, 2014 at 09:48:06 in Religion

“Christmas is a holiday because of the power of the masses to overcome the 1st Amendment.

A holiday is different from criminal laws based upon the dominant Christian beliefs.
Taking liberty away from citizens, through the use of the police powers of the state, is considerably different from a mass season of mercantilism.

“Wherever the real power in a Government lies, there is the danger of oppression. In our Governments, the real power lies in the majority of the Community, and the invasion of private rights is chiefly to be apprehended, not from the acts of Government contrary to the sense of its constituents, but from acts in which the Government is the mere instrument of the major number of the constituents.”
― James Madison, Letters and Other Writings of James Madison Volume 3”

Hugo Rabson on Jun 2, 2014 at 13:36:45

“"Christmas is a holiday because of the power of the masses to overcome the 1st Amendment."

Aww, shucks. :) Well, that's a debate for another time.

"A holiday is different from criminal laws based upon the dominant Christian beliefs."

I'm confused. It sounds as if you're agreeing with me.”
Mike Rogers: Detainee Swap For American POW In Afghanistan Is 'Dangerous'

Mike Rogers: Detainee Swap For American POW In Afghanistan Is 'Dangerous'

Commented Jun 2, 2014 at 00:53:14 in Politics

“Weiler’s Law: “Nothing is impossible for the man who doesn’t have to do it himself.”

No risk of life, limb, blood or freedom is too great - as the Congressman does not have to make it himself.”
11 Bizarre Church Laws That Could Send You To Jail

11 Bizarre Church Laws That Could Send You To Jail

Commented Jun 2, 2014 at 00:08:44 in Religion

“Not based upon common "philosophies."
Based upon extremist, authoritarian Christian religion.

That makes our laws quite similar to the tyranny of extremist Muslims.

The point is to create defined lines for liberty.
That limit being interpersonal morality, not intra-personal morality.

Comparisons to Yom Kippur is red herring.”

Hugo Rabson on Jun 2, 2014 at 04:56:01

“If you don't like the laws, change them. Don't complain that the laws are made by the majority, for the majority. That's how democratic countries tend to function.

By the way, I don't think it's a red herring at all. Yom Kippur is the most important day of the year, but it isn't a federal holiday. You don't hear me complaining about it, because I'm aware that I live in a predominantly Christian country. I don't know a single Jew who is butt-hurt that Jewish days of import – high holy days, in particular – aren't federal holidays. As a People, we tend to suck it up and drive on. It's a shame you can't do the same.”
11 Bizarre Church Laws That Could Send You To Jail

11 Bizarre Church Laws That Could Send You To Jail

Commented Jun 1, 2014 at 20:16:22 in Religion

“All real Americans support and defend your right to choose and freely exercise your religion.

All real Americans also support the right to be left alone by religionists.
No establishment of state religion. No tyrannical use of police powers of the state to force others to a particular religious sects views. That would be, of course - leaving everyone else along.

So, why do religionists work government so hard?

Nothing irrational about hating others forcing their religious beliefs upon us.

"History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of ignorance of which their civil as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their own purposes."
-- President Thomas Jefferson: in letter to Alexander von Humboldt, December 6, 1813”

Al Clerc on Jun 2, 2014 at 08:37:55

“No one is trying to force its beliefs on anyone except the govt through the HHS mandate. Anyone who goes to work for a Catholic or other religious institution should know in advance what that institutions beliefs are. The HHS mandate attempts to force such institutions to provide contraceptives & abortion coverage free, when those are freely available to anyone. It thereby attempts to redefine freedom of religion as freedom to worship only denying to hospitals, orphanages and schools run by the church, freedom to not pay for procedures which it considers morally wrong. If I go to a Jewish deli, I do not have the right to force them to serve ham because I like ham when I can get ham at another restaurant and when I know in advance that it is against Jewish moral law to eat or serve ham. The effect of the HHS mandate is to restrict freedom of religion only to freedom of worship. But the Church was the original founder of hospitals, universities and orphanages and the state should have no right to force its immoral beliefs on the Church.”
Prosecutor Tells Black Congressmembers The War On Drugs Isn't Racist

Prosecutor Tells Black Congressmembers The War On Drugs Isn't Racist

Commented Jun 1, 2014 at 20:03:55 in Politics

“Do they?
Source of information?”
11 Bizarre Church Laws That Could Send You To Jail

11 Bizarre Church Laws That Could Send You To Jail

Commented Jun 1, 2014 at 17:08:07 in Religion

“Homicide - murder - is the perfect example of a behavior which directly affects others.

Drug laws, like all prohibitions, are based upon Christian religious moral ideals.

I did not suggest that all Christians demonstrate prejudice personally.
I do suggest that all prejudice is excused by circulus in demonstrando - Christian Bible excuses. That was the basis, of course, for slavery, Jim Crow, etc.

Circulus in demonstrando

This fallacy occurs when one assumes as a premise the conclusion which one wishes to reach.

Often, the proposition will be rephrased so that the fallacy appears to be a valid argument.

For example:

"Homosexuals must not be allowed to hold government office. Hence any government official who is revealed to be a homosexual will lose his job. Therefore homosexuals will do anything to hide their secret, and will be open to blackmail. Therefore homosexuals cannot be allowed to hold government office."

Note that the argument is entirely circular; the premise is the same as the conclusion.

An argument like the above has actually been cited as the reason for the British Secret Services' official ban on homosexual employees.

Another example is the classic:

"We know that God exists because the Bible tells us so. And we know that the Bible is true because it is the word of God."”

Mathias Troubadour on Jun 1, 2014 at 17:55:20

“i just did an internet search on "refer madness". it had nothing to do with the morality of the church. it was Hearst, and the threat to his timber holdings. i've also read about a certain company overseas (that i shall refrain from mentioning) that wanted to sell a certain product to the American public (and still does). if any of these used so-called christian morality as their basis in thought, it was still a ruse. a false justification does not validate blame on the church. some nut-job can use the church for their justification for atrocity, it doesn't mean their logic has any basis whatsoever. clearly, those who sought to gain from slavery would have used anything at their disposal to do so. if they used the bible, it only adds to their misuse of power. "all oppressive prohibition laws are based upon authoritarian christian religious beliefs." i think they were based on the misuse of power, some from the church, some from business, some from politics. there's plenty of blame to go around. why focus just on the church?”
Bernie Sanders: 'Everybody Can Bear Some Of The Responsibility' For VA Troubles

Bernie Sanders: 'Everybody Can Bear Some Of The Responsibility' For VA Troubles

rascalcat on Jun 1, 2014 at 19:20:08

“Your saying it in a previous post, doesn't make it so.  This congress has given the President 10 billion less for VA than requested since he's been in office.  That hires a lot of doctors.  Regardless, I will wait and accept whatever the full IG report says when it comes out.  ”
Bernie Sanders: 'Everybody Can Bear Some Of The Responsibility' For VA Troubles

Bernie Sanders: 'Everybody Can Bear Some Of The Responsibility' For VA Troubles

Commented Jun 1, 2014 at 15:44:52 in Politics

“Obama and his Executive Branch- DoD and VA are in exclusive control of the actions and negligent inactions, of the bureaucracy.
Res Ipsa Loquitur.

The 535 venal, corrupt, corporatist kleptocrats of Congress are, jointly and severally, liable for the damage they have done to veterans by persistently underfunding.

Top-to-bottom failure of leadership and management and governance.”

Suzanne Klump on Jun 2, 2014 at 08:13:51

“have you graduated from law school yet?”

rascalcat on Jun 1, 2014 at 15:51:34

“Not really.  Changing the VA and providing oversight and sufficient funding are congressional responsibilities.  The President and Shenseki should have been hammering them, though.”
11 Bizarre Church Laws That Could Send You To Jail

11 Bizarre Church Laws That Could Send You To Jail

Commented Jun 1, 2014 at 15:38:35 in Religion

“You demonstrate nothing.
Only ask a series of questions.

Catholics are Christians. So are Mormons.

Perhaps you could share an instance where, on these subjects, they do not all agree and support prohibition?”

Thesalius on Jun 1, 2014 at 17:45:44

“Your premise appears to be that 1) there is a set of laws whose purpose is to take away liberty of the individual (the set of laws which do not limit individual liberty is no doubt tiny....). 2) Each of those laws is based upon Christian religious morality. Those two assertions are demonstrably false. The Prohibition movement grew from women's groups, many Protestant churches, and the KKK all concluding (for various reasons) that alcohol caused too many problems (economic, moral, spiritual), and thus should be banned. The Catholic Church (and the Episcopalians, and the Lutherans) were (and are) against Prohibition, yet these Churches, as you note, are Christian. Therefore, Christian religious morality does not speak as one voice on the subject of Prohibition (or on most any other subject). Mormons (I am told) believe that they should not drink alcohol, as a matter primarily concerned with health. I suspect the LDS Church does not have a specific position on Prohibition, but in most things they seem to be quite Libertarian. Utah did in fact vote to repeal Prohibition, but we cannot infer the official Church position from an indirect event. What historical evidence is there that allows us to conclude that when a secular law and a religious belief are congruent, that MUST be because the law flows from the religious belief (see Dawkins and the Pope...)?”

Mathias Troubadour on Jun 1, 2014 at 16:49:55

“he makes a good point. not that you are far off base. are our laws against murder not also based on religious morality? would they be any more sound if they were based on something else? "ideology over facts" - sound concern. the drug laws were not brought about because of any religious morality. it was a commercial motivation, primarily that of the pharmeceutical industry. racial equality and religious equality are items on your list that exist in some areas, but certainly not all religious communities demonstrate prejudice.”
John Kitzhaber Seeks Lawsuit Over Health Exchange Debacle

John Kitzhaber Seeks Lawsuit Over Health Exchange Debacle

Commented Jun 1, 2014 at 15:36:03 in Politics

“Oracle is way bigger than the State of Oregon.”

J LaRue on Jun 1, 2014 at 15:39:16

“I guess they're not doomed then? (you're losing my interest)”
11 Bizarre Church Laws That Could Send You To Jail

11 Bizarre Church Laws That Could Send You To Jail

Commented Jun 1, 2014 at 14:04:14 in Religion

“Mandatory health insurance is not based upon Christian morality.
It is based upon rational allocation of resources. No soul-molding.

Speed limits - not so. Pragmatic joint interest. No soul-molding.

Child pornography? Perhaps. Not an exhaustive list. So, allow child pornography. But, lop off the offending parts of those that create it.

Gun control. Not a bit of soul-molding. Simple self-preservation.”

Thesalius on Jun 1, 2014 at 15:17:02

“Sir, read your post. You asserted that "Every single law we have whose purpose is to take away liberty of the individual is based upon Christian religious morality." I am demonstrating that your assertion is demonstrably false. Ideology over facts seems like a road to ruin.....and what happens if Richard Dawkins says the sky is blue, and the Pope concurs? Is that a religious conclusion, or a secular one? If the Protestants favor Prohibition, and the Catholics decry it, does it demonstrate a religious morality, or an anti-religious morality? Your statement is far too encompassing to have a basis in reality. Perhaps "some laws that deprive the liberty of the individual are based in some part on Christian morality" would be defensible.”
Mike Rogers: Detainee Swap For American POW In Afghanistan Is 'Dangerous'

Mike Rogers: Detainee Swap For American POW In Afghanistan Is 'Dangerous'

Commented Jun 1, 2014 at 13:55:29 in Politics

“Republicans are now claiming that America should have left McCain and others in Hanoi Hilton?

Odd sort of support for our military.”

donquijoterocket on Jun 1, 2014 at 14:38:34

“To answer the first part of your question. I know any number of guys who humped a rifle and pack through the paddies into the triple canopy who'd have traded places with jetjock Johnny in a flash.GIven that choice I'd bet JJ Johnny might have elected to stay where he was, it was safer.”
Mike Rogers: Detainee Swap For American POW In Afghanistan Is 'Dangerous'

Mike Rogers: Detainee Swap For American POW In Afghanistan Is 'Dangerous'

Commented Jun 1, 2014 at 13:52:21 in Politics

“Rogers served in Army from '85 to '89.
Nowhere near combat.

Nothing is impossible for the chick'in-hawk that doesn't have to sit in prison himself. No risk is too great, no sacrifice is too great - as long as he doesn't have to make it.”
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