jade7243's Comments (805)
How to Pay for Health Care Reform: Let the American People (Acting Like a Commission) Decide
Commented Jan 07, 2010 at 11:51:35 in Politics
“A really dumb idea.
Americans show a remarkable knack for wanting everything without wanting to pay for it. Sure, we'll shell out money in the wake of a tragedy to help our fellow citizens, here or around the world. But American's have a "me first" attitude. If you thought the tea partiers were motivated before, just wait...
"We want cheap affordable power, BUT don't put that power plant in MY backyard."
"Yep, we want our kids to have better schools, BUT don't let "those kids" into MY kid's classroom. "
"Sure, we want better roads, BUT why should I have to pay for it?"
"Of course we want quality affordable healthcare and cheaper health insurance, BUT I'll be GD'd if I'm going to pay for it. Why it might be used for abortions or illegal immigrants or lazy poor people who just go to the emergency room when they get sick."
"I've got great health care. Why should I have to subsidize anyone else? They should just get a job."”
Americans show a remarkable knack for wanting everything without wanting to pay for it. Sure, we'll shell out money in the wake of a tragedy to help our fellow citizens, here or around the world. But American's have a "me first" attitude. If you thought the tea partiers were motivated before, just wait...
"We want cheap affordable power, BUT don't put that power plant in MY backyard."
"Yep, we want our kids to have better schools, BUT don't let "those kids" into MY kid's classroom.
"Sure, we want better roads, BUT why should I have to pay for it?"
"Of course we want quality affordable healthcare and cheaper health insurance, BUT I'll be GD'd if I'm going to pay for it. Why it might be used for abortions or illegal immigrants or lazy poor people who just go to the emergency room when they get sick."
"I've got great health care. Why should I have to subsidize anyone else? They should just get a job."”
Move Your Money: Arianna And Rob Johnson Explain How Moving Your Money Can Change The System
Commented Jan 06, 2010 at 22:02:22 in Business
“Additional evidence that what you state is true:
http://www .mutualfun dsmag.us/2 009/12/22/ news/econo my/banks.f ortune/ind ex.htm
"The New Year is shaping up to be a rough one for community lenders.
Dozens if not hundreds of small banks figure to disappear in 2010, as a weak economy and regulatory pressure lead to more failures and mergers. "
See also http://www .nytimes.c om/2009/10 /11/busine ss/economy /11banks.h tml”
http://www
"The New Year is shaping up to be a rough one for community lenders.
Dozens if not hundreds of small banks figure to disappear in 2010, as a weak economy and regulatory pressure lead to more failures and mergers. "
See also http://www
SpiralDenial replied on Jan 06, 2010 at 22:08:08
“Repeat: Of absolutely no concern unless you have more than $250K in one bank.
The FDIC has been in existence since the 1930s and not one depositor has ever lost a dime since then. Quit fanning the flames of unfounded fears.”
The FDIC has been in existence since the 1930s and not one depositor has ever lost a dime since then. Quit fanning the flames of unfounded fears.”
Move Your Money: Arianna And Rob Johnson Explain How Moving Your Money Can Change The System
Commented Jan 06, 2010 at 21:58:44 in Business
“"...the smallest banks have been dropping like flies for years, as they labor to master expensive new technologies and regulatory changes -- at a time when giant banks spawned in a rash of megamergers are expanding their reach.
"The consolidation trend should only strengthen in the coming year. Dozens of banks will fail as their customers retrench in a weak economy. Meanwhile, regulators will keep pressuring bankers to lend cautiously -- prompting weaker banks to merge into stronger ones as growth remains elusive.
"A lot of the regional and community banks are going to struggle to remain independent," said Terry Moore, a managing director at Accenture. "We're going to see those numbers shrinking. "
They have shrunk a lot already. The number of commercial banks with assets of $50 million or less has dropped by more than 3,600 since 1994, to 1,198, according to recent Federal Deposit Insurance Corp. data."
From http://www .mutualfun dsmag.us/2 009/12/22/ news/econo my/banks.f ortune/ind ex.htm
Free Words of Wisdom: Look Before You Leap.”
"The consolidation trend should only strengthen in the coming year. Dozens of banks will fail as their customers retrench in a weak economy. Meanwhile, regulators will keep pressuring bankers to lend cautiously -- prompting weaker banks to merge into stronger ones as growth remains elusive.
"A lot of the regional and community banks are going to struggle to remain independent," said Terry Moore, a managing director at Accenture. "We're going to see those numbers shrinking.
They have shrunk a lot already. The number of commercial banks with assets of $50 million or less has dropped by more than 3,600 since 1994, to 1,198, according to recent Federal Deposit Insurance Corp. data."
From http://www
Free Words of Wisdom: Look Before You Leap.”
ResearchtheFacts replied on Jan 06, 2010 at 22:39:07
“I like the prompting weaker banks to merge to stronger ones...wou ldn't it be funny if B of A was so weakened it had to merge or break off branches to local banks?
Also, credit unions...g o credit union if you feel weary about your local bank possibly folding. But don't let the nay-sayers stop you from making your banking move.”
Also, credit unions...g
tapeatsbill replied on Jan 06, 2010 at 22:31:16
“Yeah and Washington Mutual was on of the biggest banks ever. They failed. Largest bank failure in history. The good news is that not one depositor lost $$$.
Moving your money strengthens the local community banks.”
Moving your money strengthens the local community banks.”
Obama's Secret Weapon: OFA
Commented Jan 05, 2010 at 17:23:59 in Politics
“You can tell by the negative comments here not only what the President is up against, but people who are working hard in OFA. The progressives are quick to complain, but painfully slow to act. They'll poke fun at Republicans and snicker at fellow Democrats who are working with the administration. Like the "too cool for school" high school clique, they find fun in sitting on the sidelines while the rest of the class does the heavy lifting.
Progressives will make fun of tea partiers, but do next to nothing to combat their impact on political discourse. They don't show up to town halls. They malign Blue Dog Democrats, who are Democrats after all. They'll giggle that Republicans have a purity test and subject their fellow Democrats to the same d*mn thing. Their only concern is so-called "progressive" issues, which, if not packaged exactly as they'd like they drop like a hot potato. They'll protest that they'd kill healthcare with their 60 votes in the House, but cannot put forward any alternative plan that can reach the only number that counts in the House -- 218.
OFA has a lot more to offer, and would benefit if some of the progressives would quit grousing and get going.”
Progressives will make fun of tea partiers, but do next to nothing to combat their impact on political discourse. They don't show up to town halls. They malign Blue Dog Democrats, who are Democrats after all. They'll giggle that Republicans have a purity test and subject their fellow Democrats to the same d*mn thing. Their only concern is so-called "progressive" issues, which, if not packaged exactly as they'd like they drop like a hot potato. They'll protest that they'd kill healthcare with their 60 votes in the House, but cannot put forward any alternative plan that can reach the only number that counts in the House -- 218.
OFA has a lot more to offer, and would benefit if some of the progressives would quit grousing and get going.”
steveshs replied on Jan 05, 2010 at 19:15:26
“I am a progressive. I show up to town halls. I malign people who run on a people plank then hop onto a corporate plank because it is dis-ingenuous for them to do so.
It is not a purity test, it is called keeping your campaign promises, or at least fighting for the things you ran on.
My 'only' progressive concerns are food, medicine, education and a roof to go over the head of my children and their children. I do not care how they package it as long as it is real and helpful to someone besides those who already have so much. (The top 1% have 47 % of the money. Pesky progressive factoid... ).
Had this president desired so he could have decided to scorn those who paid for his campaign in favor of those who need his help. He did not make that choice. This disaster of a first year is the result.”
It is not a purity test, it is called keeping your campaign promises, or at least fighting for the things you ran on.
My 'only' progressive concerns are food, medicine, education and a roof to go over the head of my children and their children. I do not care how they package it as long as it is real and helpful to someone besides those who already have so much. (The top 1% have 47 % of the money. Pesky progressive factoid...
Had this president desired so he could have decided to scorn those who paid for his campaign in favor of those who need his help. He did not make that choice. This disaster of a first year is the result.”
Dnietz replied on Jan 05, 2010 at 18:34:14
“absolute total nonsense
you are just making up whatever you want to create a story to support what you wish was true”
you are just making up whatever you want to create a story to support what you wish was true”
Raul Garcia replied on Jan 05, 2010 at 17:35:48
“Total nonsense.
I attended a Move On health care rally, and the key organizer basically didn't give a shit whether Obama's plan wasn't calling for a robust public option or not and that Obama's plan was promoting mandated health insurance, a platform which Obama campaigned against.
As far as I'm concerned the OFA and Move On are fronts for Obama and his cronies.
In the mean time I'm teaming up with these groups:
http://npa -us.org
http://sho wdowniname rica.org”
I attended a Move On health care rally, and the key organizer basically didn't give a shit whether Obama's plan wasn't calling for a robust public option or not and that Obama's plan was promoting mandated health insurance, a platform which Obama campaigned against.
As far as I'm concerned the OFA and Move On are fronts for Obama and his cronies.
In the mean time I'm teaming up with these groups:
http://npa
http://sho
Do You Want To Be Right, or Do You Want To Be Healthy?
Commented Jan 05, 2010 at 14:35:24 in Politics
“"All I know is __________ __________ _____ (fill in the blank)..." seems to be at the root of the problem.”
Do You Want To Be Right, or Do You Want To Be Healthy?
Commented Jan 05, 2010 at 14:32:56 in Politics
“What exactly is "your neighborhood quack shack" -- a legitimate medical clinic?
How did you pay "co-pay" or "discount" prices for Prednisone and Zovirax? Or list retail price?Your Costco cost for prescriptions would still be based off of having some kind of prescription drug coverage (or you would pay retail.) For example 15 grams of Zovirax ointment is $165.50. And 30 tablets of 20mg (low dose) prednisone is $6.20. Prices from Costco.com
What is the Kaiser Permanente premium you would have paid and in what state do you live? (so we can compare what you would have paid with what you paid according to your "$119 less") Individual or family plan? Pre-existing conditions?
Do you qualify for Medicare? Medicaid? VA benefits?
Did you use any other "discount" medical card or service to reduce your costs?
None of this discusses hospitalization, surgical, long-term chronic or castastrophic care.”
How did you pay "co-pay" or "discount" prices for Prednisone and Zovirax? Or list retail price?Your Costco cost for prescriptions would still be based off of having some kind of prescription drug coverage (or you would pay retail.) For example 15 grams of Zovirax ointment is $165.50. And 30 tablets of 20mg (low dose) prednisone is $6.20. Prices from Costco.com
What is the Kaiser Permanente premium you would have paid and in what state do you live? (so we can compare what you would have paid with what you paid according to your "$119 less") Individual or family plan? Pre-existing conditions?
Do you qualify for Medicare? Medicaid? VA benefits?
Did you use any other "discount" medical card or service to reduce your costs?
None of this discusses hospitalization, surgical, long-term chronic or castastrophic care.”
Qunamngdogs replied on Jan 05, 2010 at 21:19:09
“"What is the Kaiser Permanente premium you would have paid and in what state do you live? (so we can compare what you would have paid with what you paid according to your "$119 less") Individual or family plan?"
"(so we can compare"
So we can compare? We? LOL”
"(so we can compare"
So we can compare? We? LOL”
Do You Want To Be Right, or Do You Want To Be Healthy?
Commented Jan 05, 2010 at 13:56:01 in Politics
“Newsflash: your premiums would have -- and in past years DID -- go up and those increases had nothing to do with healthcare reform.
It has to do with the whims of the insurance industry and the inability of your employer to continue to foot the bill for the premium increases without passing part of that cost on to you. In return for higher prices, your coverage did not improve at the same rate. You got fewer benefits, more red tape and higher costs.
Healthcare reform, I repeat, had nothing to do with that.
An empty complaint.”
It has to do with the whims of the insurance industry and the inability of your employer to continue to foot the bill for the premium increases without passing part of that cost on to you. In return for higher prices, your coverage did not improve at the same rate. You got fewer benefits, more red tape and higher costs.
Healthcare reform, I repeat, had nothing to do with that.
An empty complaint.”
Do You Want To Be Right, or Do You Want To Be Healthy?
Commented Jan 05, 2010 at 13:50:26 in Politics
“You're right, Aaron.. far too many people understand the art of negotiation. Maybe they would get it if you had referenced Donald Trump's "The Art of the Deal," after all it's all about the negotiation. Or maybe referenced some Eastern or Middle Eastern philosophy like "The Art of War" or Machiavelli, another master negotiator.
This has become an ego-driven exercise especially for progressives who became so wedded to the public option, they couldn't see straight. That entrenched position is damaging. In the House, blindsided by the Stupak amendment, it darn near derailed the bill. The Senate crafted a work-around of insuring abortion coverage availability with necessitating purchasers to write two checks to make certain the funds are separated.
For many progressives, they are so locked into their positions, that they can only see "being right" as their only option. This President has understood how to "get to yes" and that has been infuriating to progressives.”
This has become an ego-driven exercise especially for progressives who became so wedded to the public option, they couldn't see straight. That entrenched position is damaging. In the House, blindsided by the Stupak amendment, it darn near derailed the bill. The Senate crafted a work-around of insuring abortion coverage availability with necessitating purchasers to write two checks to make certain the funds are separated.
For many progressives, they are so locked into their positions, that they can only see "being right" as their only option. This President has understood how to "get to yes" and that has been infuriating to progressives.”
meko replied on Jan 05, 2010 at 14:08:24
“The mandates put consumers in a weak, subservient position. The federal government forces us to buy insurance plans, but it doesn't make sure that the plans deliver actual care (enforcement of regulation is left up to existing ineffectual state insurance boards).”
Why It's Bad News That the Health Care Conference Committee Will Be Held in Secret
Commented Jan 05, 2010 at 13:34:51 in Politics
“You're very welcome.
All of us at the White House invite you to stop by sometime. The tours are terrific. While you're visiting remind us to get you seating in the House or Senate visitors' gallery. We know some people over there.
Joe Biden says "Hey! Just don't bring those crazy Salahis with you." That Joe cracks me up!
In your spare time, check out Whitehouse .gov! Before you go, don't forget press the "Donate" button, brother (or sister). And support your local Democrat in the 2010 elections.
Have an great Obama Day! Remember, kids: Everyday is an Obama Day!”
All of us at the White House invite you to stop by sometime. The tours are terrific. While you're visiting remind us to get you seating in the House or Senate visitors' gallery. We know some people over there.
Joe Biden says "Hey! Just don't bring those crazy Salahis with you." That Joe cracks me up!
In your spare time, check out Whitehouse
Have an great Obama Day! Remember, kids: Everyday is an Obama Day!”
Why It's Bad News That the Health Care Conference Committee Will Be Held in Secret
Commented Jan 05, 2010 at 13:24:48 in Politics
“Are you really that naive?
I guess so.
I had.. have ... no problem with the amount of transparency regarding this White House or frankly this session of Congress.
Without the President's "back room deal" (that everybody seems to know all the details of) Big Pharma, AARP, even AHIP would have shut this bill down in its tracks. What you (and Sirota) don't get is that the President cleared the field enough for Congress to have some running room to get the thing done.
I think the President has upheld his promise. You're probably still mad at your parents for telling you about the tooth fairy.
Time to stop the willful naivete and start participating in the real world, not the progressive pipe dream.”
I guess so.
I had.. have ... no problem with the amount of transparency regarding this White House or frankly this session of Congress.
Without the President's "back room deal" (that everybody seems to know all the details of) Big Pharma, AARP, even AHIP would have shut this bill down in its tracks. What you (and Sirota) don't get is that the President cleared the field enough for Congress to have some running room to get the thing done.
I think the President has upheld his promise. You're probably still mad at your parents for telling you about the tooth fairy.
Time to stop the willful naivete and start participating in the real world, not the progressive pipe dream.”
Estreet1964 replied on Jan 05, 2010 at 14:37:53
“Yes, I guess I'm naive. I actually took Obama at his word when he said he was going to be different and CHANGE the way things were done in Washington. (You remember the "C" word don't you? It was on ALL his signs.)
How silly of me to think that when Obama said during the campaign that he favored drug re-importation to bring down the cost of prescription drugs for working Americans, that he would actually work to make it happen. If he wasn't up to the task of taking on the corporations and the special interests, he should have told us during the campaign.
I'm so glad that there are folks like you around who don't seem to care if you are lied to or make any effort to hold your leaders to a higher standard. Just make excuses for them and keep merrily marching on behind.
You're going to grow up to be a great Republican someday.”
How silly of me to think that when Obama said during the campaign that he favored drug re-importation to bring down the cost of prescription drugs for working Americans, that he would actually work to make it happen. If he wasn't up to the task of taking on the corporations and the special interests, he should have told us during the campaign.
I'm so glad that there are folks like you around who don't seem to care if you are lied to or make any effort to hold your leaders to a higher standard. Just make excuses for them and keep merrily marching on behind.
You're going to grow up to be a great Republican someday.”
Why It's Bad News That the Health Care Conference Committee Will Be Held in Secret
Commented Jan 05, 2010 at 13:18:42 in Politics
“218 in the House
60 to invoke cloture in the Senate.
A "Progressive Party" is lovely dream. But that's about as far as it goes. All of these multiple parties lead to more gridlock and less progress. (Look at coalition governments elsewhere). The truth is you'd have still have to form a coalition with Democrats to get anything done.
So the reality is:
1) you'd have to get enough people running on a "progressive party ticket" to get elected.
2) then you'd need a legislative majority 218/60) in both bodies to craft wholly progressive legislation,
3) failing those numbers, you'd have to form a coalition and
4) compromise with your coalition partners.
5) Without that you have no power and no influence.”
60 to invoke cloture in the Senate.
A "Progressive Party" is lovely dream. But that's about as far as it goes. All of these multiple parties lead to more gridlock and less progress. (Look at coalition governments elsewhere). The truth is you'd have still have to form a coalition with Democrats to get anything done.
So the reality is:
1) you'd have to get enough people running on a "progressive party ticket" to get elected.
2) then you'd need a legislative majority 218/60) in both bodies to craft wholly progressive legislation,
3) failing those numbers, you'd have to form a coalition and
4) compromise with your coalition partners.
5) Without that you have no power and no influence.”
PATina replied on Jan 05, 2010 at 13:33:06
“Reality check... w/ out progressives The Democratic party will have no power nor influence either.
Just ask Al Gore after November 2000.”
Just ask Al Gore after November 2000.”
Why It's Bad News That the Health Care Conference Committee Will Be Held in Secret
Commented Jan 05, 2010 at 13:09:47 in Politics
“House and Senate committees, hearings, debates and votes all on C-SPAN and its sister channels plus on its website.
I downloaded the all of the bills and amendments coming from both the House and Senate. Why didn't you? I watched the coverage and all available video of meetings between the White House and key players. Why didn't you? I watched all of the committee hearings and committee debates in House and Senate on healthcare. Why didn't you?
The problem is not that the information isn't there. The problem is you're too lazy to get it. The problem isn't that the President is blocking your access. The problem is you'd rather complain it wasn't delivered to you on a silver platter with a sprig of parsley. The problem isn't that it's a "bad" bill, the problem is that progressives think their ideas are the only ones that count. The problem isn't that compromise is part of the process, the problem is you all have no fundamental understanding of how legislation is really crafted.
The problem isn't President Obama. The problem is YOU.”
I downloaded the all of the bills and amendments coming from both the House and Senate. Why didn't you? I watched the coverage and all available video of meetings between the White House and key players. Why didn't you? I watched all of the committee hearings and committee debates in House and Senate on healthcare. Why didn't you?
The problem is not that the information isn't there. The problem is you're too lazy to get it. The problem isn't that the President is blocking your access. The problem is you'd rather complain it wasn't delivered to you on a silver platter with a sprig of parsley. The problem isn't that it's a "bad" bill, the problem is that progressives think their ideas are the only ones that count. The problem isn't that compromise is part of the process, the problem is you all have no fundamental understanding of how legislation is really crafted.
The problem isn't President Obama. The problem is YOU.”
tangerinesong replied on Jan 06, 2010 at 10:22:54
“Excuse me 43?
Why would you defer a direct quote and promise from our President 43? Healthcare and the way Obama explained how this would work was one of the reasons I voted for the man. True transparency coupled with an open forum with C-Span covering negotiation and debate. This was the change I longed for after 8 long miserable years of W. This was Obama's promise not mine 43. I wasn’t promised partial coverage, I was promised total transparency including total coverage by our now President so you can acknowledge this or not. A promise that went unfulfilled that generated my vote.
No, the problem is folks like you who don’t hold government accountable but no worries in your world huh?
Tina”
Why would you defer a direct quote and promise from our President 43? Healthcare and the way Obama explained how this would work was one of the reasons I voted for the man. True transparency coupled with an open forum with C-Span covering negotiation and debate. This was the change I longed for after 8 long miserable years of W. This was Obama's promise not mine 43. I wasn’t promised partial coverage, I was promised total transparency including total coverage by our now President so you can acknowledge this or not. A promise that went unfulfilled that generated my vote.
No, the problem is folks like you who don’t hold government accountable but no worries in your world huh?
Tina”
WritusMaximus replied on Jan 06, 2010 at 07:13:45
“Nah, won't work. But nice try, WH trooper!”
ErnestineBass replied on Jan 05, 2010 at 14:15:28
“Hmmm...if you found any video of the secret negotiations that took place between the President and representatives of Big Pharma and Health Insurance PRIOR to HCR being introduced and debated in Congress, would you please post a link...I'd like to see them.”
ThePeacemakers replied on Jan 05, 2010 at 14:12:01
“The problem is that the health insurance industry crafted this bill. Remember them? The ones who'd put their profits above your life any day of the week?”
Why It's Bad News That the Health Care Conference Committee Will Be Held in Secret
Commented Jan 05, 2010 at 12:57:20 in Politics
“House "progressives" cannot muster the 218 votes needed to pass the bill with the items they want in it. They can only block it. Fat lot of good that does.
In the Senate, all 60 Democratic or Dem-leaning votes are needed to invoke cloture (end debate). The bill itself needs only a simple majority to pass. But again, the "progressives" do not have the votes to invoke cloture or stave off a filibuster without the moderate and conservative Democrats.
So, the political reality is progressives must be part of the compromise process or be mere obstructionists like the Republicans.
So you can whine about "corruption" and "collusion" but that is all talk. And how you can get to "Dems colluding with Reps to pass it" is an Alice in Wonderland moment when not a single Republican vote for final passage in the Senate and only one in the House.
But hey, keep making stuff up... just remember the two magic numbers progressives DON'T have: 218 and 60.”
In the Senate, all 60 Democratic or Dem-leaning votes are needed to invoke cloture (end debate). The bill itself needs only a simple majority to pass. But again, the "progressives" do not have the votes to invoke cloture or stave off a filibuster without the moderate and conservative Democrats.
So, the political reality is progressives must be part of the compromise process or be mere obstructionists like the Republicans.
So you can whine about "corruption" and "collusion" but that is all talk. And how you can get to "Dems colluding with Reps to pass it" is an Alice in Wonderland moment when not a single Republican vote for final passage in the Senate and only one in the House.
But hey, keep making stuff up... just remember the two magic numbers progressives DON'T have: 218 and 60.”
WritusMaximus replied on Jan 06, 2010 at 07:00:37
“Yup, progressives don't have the votes, thanks to the corporate dems. But since all dems wear the dem label, it's all good! Yup, you are right! We live in Alice's Wonderland!”
PATina replied on Jan 05, 2010 at 13:29:49
“Sorry... but Progressives have been the ONLY ones that are a part of the compromise process. Please... someone explain to me what any other group has had to give up in this "compromis e".... just one thing will do.
Standing up for your principles against a bad bill is not being "mere obstructionists". What's sad is that you (and many others) don't know the difference.
And one more thing... conservative dems don't have the magic numbers either. So why don't they have to become a part of the "compromise process" or fear being labeled "mere obstructionists"???”
Standing up for your principles against a bad bill is not being "mere obstructionists". What's sad is that you (and many others) don't know the difference.
And one more thing... conservative dems don't have the magic numbers either. So why don't they have to become a part of the "compromise process" or fear being labeled "mere obstructionists"???”
Awake-and-Sing replied on Jan 05, 2010 at 13:18:47
“Progressives may not have 218 votes in the House nor 60 votes in the Senate.
But don't kid yourself. "Corruption" and "collusion" isn't just talk. That's stone cold real.”
But don't kid yourself. "Corruption" and "collusion" isn't just talk. That's stone cold real.”
Why It's Bad News That the Health Care Conference Committee Will Be Held in Secret
Commented Jan 05, 2010 at 12:49:47 in Politics
“Your TV must not get C-SPAN or C-SPAN2 or C-SPAN3. Your computer probably blocks access to C-SPAN.org.
You must not know to go to House.gov or Senate.gov to download copies of bills under consideration.
Because this process has been as open as it can get. All the committee meetings, hearings, floor debate, votes, and more.
These complaints about "open to public scrutiny" fail when put to the test.
Find something else to whine about.”
You must not know to go to House.gov or Senate.gov to download copies of bills under consideration.
Because this process has been as open as it can get. All the committee meetings, hearings, floor debate, votes, and more.
These complaints about "open to public scrutiny" fail when put to the test.
Find something else to whine about.”
theguyfromchesapeake replied on Jan 05, 2010 at 16:35:41
“Look, I get that the likes of you and yours guzzle the Kool-aid by the keg full. But your comments about this process don't measure up to the reality. Certainly, SOME things have been open to public scrutiny, but other, critical things have not. Your beloved Dems have made no bones about their intentions and how they will go about achieving them. In fact, C-SPAN is challenging the Dems to be open about this process.
The below link is from Fox News.
http://www .foxnews.c om/politic s/2010/01/ 05/c-span- challenges -congress- open-healt h-care-tal ks-tv-cove rage/
But just in case you ant to condemn the messenger instead of the message, then try this link. It's from the actual C-SPAN site.
http://www .c-span.or g/pdf/C-SP AN%20Healt h%20Care%2 0Letter.pd f
No need to thank me. I'm glad to do this for you....”
The below link is from Fox News.
http://www
But just in case you ant to condemn the messenger instead of the message, then try this link. It's from the actual C-SPAN site.
http://www
No need to thank me. I'm glad to do this for you....”
Why It's Bad News That the Health Care Conference Committee Will Be Held in Secret
Commented Jan 05, 2010 at 12:43:43 in Politics
“"ping-pong"”
Why It's Bad News That the Health Care Conference Committee Will Be Held in Secret
Commented Jan 05, 2010 at 11:41:39 in Politics
“"We" are not screwed. "You" are screwing yourself with the "I won't for for _______" claim.
What is it called when you screw yourself.. . The Old Master Bait and Switch Parties Game. Guess what? You lose.
But keeping playing with -- and kidding -- yourself that threats of a third party candidate will lead victory.”
What is it called when you screw yourself..
But keeping playing with -- and kidding -- yourself that threats of a third party candidate will lead victory.”
WritusMaximus replied on Jan 06, 2010 at 07:33:01
“I agree with your thinking. For you see, keeps us entrenched in the "two party system", the lesser of the two evils, for with our votes we are preventing other choices.”
RPLinNYC replied on Jan 05, 2010 at 12:12:33
“How do you propose holding our elected officials accountable? there should be consequences when they choose to represent corporate interests
rather than citizens.”
rather than citizens.”
Why It's Bad News That the Health Care Conference Committee Will Be Held in Secret
Commented Jan 05, 2010 at 11:36:03 in Politics
“Actually, this is great news. It means the Democrats will skip Republican obstructionism and will put together a final bill on their own. It means many of the delays and other stall tactics which dragged the Senate bill out to a Christmas Eve passage will be avoided. It means HP and other news outlets, who have dealt with the details of this bill by repeating Republcan talking points, repeating progressive whining, and attempting to stop the bill through wedge issues will be marginalized, if not totally sidelined.
Those of you who complain that there is no transparency clearly didn't watch the progress of either bill through the House and Senate.
I find it odd that you constantly compare the passage of Medicare to this legislation. Medicare was not done in the glare of TV klieg lights. It was done in the Senate cloak rooms, the steam rooms, basement private offices, over steakhouse dinners. It was back room deals that got it done. Politics 1960's style.
The "pong-pong" strategy is the best news for the bill. In order for the two bodies to work out their different and get a bill with can get the 60 Senate cloture votes and a 218 majority in House, it's time to give just a little privacy to those involved so we can get this thing done.”
Those of you who complain that there is no transparency clearly didn't watch the progress of either bill through the House and Senate.
I find it odd that you constantly compare the passage of Medicare to this legislation. Medicare was not done in the glare of TV klieg lights. It was done in the Senate cloak rooms, the steam rooms, basement private offices, over steakhouse dinners. It was back room deals that got it done. Politics 1960's style.
The "pong-pong" strategy is the best news for the bill. In order for the two bodies to work out their different and get a bill with can get the 60 Senate cloture votes and a 218 majority in House, it's time to give just a little privacy to those involved so we can get this thing done.”
WritusMaximus replied on Jan 06, 2010 at 07:17:13
“Well, the article argues against you. Read it, my friend!”
jade7243 replied on Jan 05, 2010 at 12:43:43
“"ping-pong"”
Estreet1964 replied on Jan 05, 2010 at 12:36:09
“Quote: "Those of you who complain that there is no transparency clearly didn't watch the progress of either bill through the House and Senate."
Well we certainly didn't see it on C-Span LIKE THE PRESIDENT SAID HE WOULD DO.
And Obama certainly didn't include single payer advocates when he sat with all the parties to talk about the bill LIKE HE SAID HE WOULD.
And when he sat down in secret with Big Pharma to cut a back room deal with them before the whole process got started, he wasn't changing the way business was done in Washington LIKE HE SAID HE WOULD.
So please, tell this progressive why you consider it whining when we are merely insisting that President Obama DO WHAT HE SAID HE WOULD DO if we elected him?
Should he not be held accountable for standing behind what he promised?”
Well we certainly didn't see it on C-Span LIKE THE PRESIDENT SAID HE WOULD DO.
And Obama certainly didn't include single payer advocates when he sat with all the parties to talk about the bill LIKE HE SAID HE WOULD.
And when he sat down in secret with Big Pharma to cut a back room deal with them before the whole process got started, he wasn't changing the way business was done in Washington LIKE HE SAID HE WOULD.
So please, tell this progressive why you consider it whining when we are merely insisting that President Obama DO WHAT HE SAID HE WOULD DO if we elected him?
Should he not be held accountable for standing behind what he promised?”
Chazet2 replied on Jan 05, 2010 at 11:44:38
“Thank you David Axelrod!”
CEO Obama
Commented Jan 03, 2010 at 12:56:08 in Politics
“Actually, "liberals" are not trying to hijack the "progressive" label.
Progressives have assumed they make up a greater component of the Democratic party than they actually do, and that their ideals and ideology are "perfect."
Progressives are becoming the tea partiers of the left, demanding unrealistic ideological purity, making unfulfillable demands. For example the Progressive Caucus in the House has 60 votes, enough to derail healthcare if they wanted. However, they do not have 218 votes needed to pass a bill with the vaunted public option. (The only reason the House bill passed was enough of the moderate and conservative Democrats were willing to support the Stupak amendment. Progressives didn't have enough votes to overcome that either.)
Progressives are big talkers but lack the political wherewithal or pragmatism to get anything done.
Not mention progressives assumed that President Obama was one of "them," when clearly he wasn't and never claimed to be.
President Kucinich, much?”
Progressives have assumed they make up a greater component of the Democratic party than they actually do, and that their ideals and ideology are "perfect."
Progressives are becoming the tea partiers of the left, demanding unrealistic ideological purity, making unfulfillable demands. For example the Progressive Caucus in the House has 60 votes, enough to derail healthcare if they wanted. However, they do not have 218 votes needed to pass a bill with the vaunted public option. (The only reason the House bill passed was enough of the moderate and conservative Democrats were willing to support the Stupak amendment. Progressives didn't have enough votes to overcome that either.)
Progressives are big talkers but lack the political wherewithal or pragmatism to get anything done.
Not mention progressives assumed that President Obama was one of "them," when clearly he wasn't and never claimed to be.
President Kucinich, much?”
Time to Rethink Afghanistan
Commented Jan 03, 2010 at 12:35:35 in World
“I've been trying to post similar thoughts where this "building goodwill" BS is being spread. It's stunningly naive and superficial to compare China's involvement in with mining in Afghanistan to that of the US. It is even more moronic to willingly overlook China's active and obstructive involvement in other countries like Sudan, where China protects the Arabic, Muslim government's treatment -- ethnic cleansing and genocide -- of the sub-Saharan ("black") Darfurians. The Sudanese point to the "goodwill" and economic assistance China provides by building roads and power plants. Meanwhile, China, as a permanent member of the UN Security Council exercises its veto power to prevent the UN from taking more meaningful actions in the region to stop the genocide.
It's guilt-free because exploitation is more important to China than anything else.
And it's not just in Sudan. China -- needing more and more natural resources -- is planting itself and its workers in far-flung outposts to lay claim to the natural resources of these under developed countries, especially in Africa. To protect its new-found "strategic interests" China is re-colonizing these countries almost identically to what the UK and European nations did during the last two centuries.
China builds "Chinese towns" in these places for the Chinese workers they import to extract the natural resources and send them back to China.”
It's guilt-free because exploitation is more important to China than anything else.
And it's not just in Sudan. China -- needing more and more natural resources -- is planting itself and its workers in far-flung outposts to lay claim to the natural resources of these under developed countries, especially in Africa. To protect its new-found "strategic interests" China is re-colonizing these countries almost identically to what the UK and European nations did during the last two centuries.
China builds "Chinese towns" in these places for the Chinese workers they import to extract the natural resources and send them back to China.”
Time to Rethink Afghanistan
Commented Jan 03, 2010 at 12:30:37 in World
“I'm sure the people of Tibet would highly recommend the Chinese as "wonderful" lords and masters over an indigenous people. Look how great that has worked for them. And the Darfurians would say life has been just great since China decided to invest in Sudan. Well, great if you don't mind genocide, famine and refuge camp living.
Wonder no more, but do think harder.”
Wonder no more, but do think harder.”
Time to Rethink Afghanistan
Commented Jan 03, 2010 at 12:26:51 in World
“Only for China.
China only does what is in its self interest. Not for the nations where they have set up outposts. Not for human rights, not for environmental protection, not for economic development of the host nation, not for the health and welfare of the host nation's people.”
China only does what is in its self interest. Not for the nations where they have set up outposts. Not for human rights, not for environmental protection, not for economic development of the host nation, not for the health and welfare of the host nation's people.”
Time to Rethink Afghanistan
Commented Jan 03, 2010 at 12:24:05 in World
“Actually, they're not interested in peace or stability there. China is not "rebuilding" Afghanistan, China is creating its own towns, importing its own workers, building roads to its own factories or mines or power plants that support its interests not the countries its in as a whole. In Iraq, China is drilling for oil with oil boom town filled with Chinese workers who eat at Chinese restaurants and shop at a Chinese company store all inside a secure Chinese compound. There are no Iraqi workers there. None in Afghanistan, None in Sudan, where China supports the Sudanese government's ethnic cleansing and genocide of the Darfurians. It's China that has blocked any meaningful UN involvement towards ending the genocide, by exercising its UN veto to send troops.
Greenwald and Huffington and Wines are stunningly wrong on this. Shame on them for trying to conflate the war in Afghanistan (and any actions against Al Qaeda) with China's "peaceful conquest" of under-developed nations by essentially robbing them of their natural resources and giving next to nothing in return.”
Greenwald and Huffington and Wines are stunningly wrong on this. Shame on them for trying to conflate the war in Afghanistan (and any actions against Al Qaeda) with China's "peaceful conquest" of under-developed nations by essentially robbing them of their natural resources and giving next to nothing in return.”
dsws replied on Jan 03, 2010 at 19:58:10
“You don't get much mining done in the middle of a war zone. You don't get much ore hauled out of there if people are blowing up the railroad tracks three times a week. As for no Afghan workers in Chinese projects in Afghanistan, take it up with the New York Times. They say straight out that China is hiring Afghans for the project that the article is about.
Yes, it's underdevelopment, likely to contribute little to the prosperity of Afghanistan after the initial 3.4 billion dollars makes its way to the Swiss bank accounts of various government officials and warlords. Yes, they don't care about democracy or human rights. But compared to the "economy" that Afghanistan has had since the US/USSR proxy war started there almost a generation ago, consisting almost entirely of poppy growing, arms trading, soldiering, and corruption -- compared to that, underdevelopment is a step up.
More to the point, once it's their problem, it's not ours.”
Yes, it's underdevelopment, likely to contribute little to the prosperity of Afghanistan after the initial 3.4 billion dollars makes its way to the Swiss bank accounts of various government officials and warlords. Yes, they don't care about democracy or human rights. But compared to the "economy" that Afghanistan has had since the US/USSR proxy war started there almost a generation ago, consisting almost entirely of poppy growing, arms trading, soldiering, and corruption -- compared to that, underdevelopment is a step up.
More to the point, once it's their problem, it's not ours.”
2009: The Things I Want to Forget (Part Two)
Commented Jan 01, 2010 at 11:58:07 in Home
“Heavens to Murgatroid! And to Detroit, even! Or should I say "th-thufferring thyncophants!" E-ven! Everywhere I look burnt offerings and glib typings from the masses for banal, simplistic, sophmoric, "stunningly naive and superficial" pronouncements from the celebrity political blogger.
I want to forget all of the "eninissa" (strike that, reverse it) blogs I have by her about the current administration. For the new year, I resolve to read them in my best "Christopher Walken doing William Shatner doing Truman Capote doing the comedy stylings of political satirist Bill Russell" voice in order to wring from them every last drop of comedic value. I resolve to get my serious political discourse from people with serious political insight, and not the "dollar a page click crowd."
I also resolve to vigorously push back against the rising tide of monolithic "progressive" groupthink that pervades these pages. Someone has to say the "Look, the Empress has no clothes!"”
I want to forget all of the "eninissa" (strike that, reverse it) blogs I have by her about the current administration. For the new year, I resolve to read them in my best "Christopher Walken doing William Shatner doing Truman Capote doing the comedy stylings of political satirist Bill Russell" voice in order to wring from them every last drop of comedic value. I resolve to get my serious political discourse from people with serious political insight, and not the "dollar a page click crowd."
I also resolve to vigorously push back against the rising tide of monolithic "progressive" groupthink that pervades these pages. Someone has to say the "Look, the Empress has no clothes!"”
THINKB4USPEAK replied on Jan 01, 2010 at 18:58:55
“How do you propose we get serious discourse on an artificial subject ("politics") which should never been taken seriously in the first place? Deeds, not words, will rule the day.”
2009: The Things I Want to Forget (Part Two)
Commented Jan 01, 2010 at 11:18:38 in Home
“Heidi Montag and Spencer Pratt?
Really? Important?”
Really? Important?”
bwalsh1 replied on Jan 01, 2010 at 17:26:42
“No, making them go away is really important :).”


