jcause28's Comments (150)

“no kidding”

“"If you want to vaccinate go right ahead. If you want to stay away from me and my children because we choose not to vaccinate, and because you aren’t really sure if the vaccines you chose to put in your body to block disease are really effective, that is fine too."

You are setting up a strawman arguement here. I never said I wasn't sure of the effectiveness. I have a newborn. And until she is 2, she cannot get the vaccines. I am quite comfortable with their effectiveness. But the point is that children who do not get the vaccines are a possible risk for her and all other kids in her position. Or kids with cancer who cannot get the vaccines. Why do you think measels is becoming a problem agian, specifically in unvaccinated populations. That's not speculation, those are real kids who are suffering because of a false scare. Please, if you are going to make a point, don't use logical fallacies to make that point.”

“I'm quite sure Obama is aware of the dangers of smoking as well as the options. Most smokers are, and have tried them all at some point. It's cool that you are trying to help. But with all that Obama is doing, I'm buying that man a pack of Davidoffs and a single malt scotch when his work is done... well that's the option I'm offering.”

“I quit sometime ago. but when people whine about others smoking, it makes me want to light up just to spite them. just as the jehoviah witnesses make me want booze up and sin whenever they come by. is smoking good? of course not. but over sanitation of society and and nagging isn't that cool either.”

“Understanding that it's pretty pointless to argue this in the ground, I'm moving on. Before I do though, does anyone know of a group that helps promote scientific based outreach to parents, a group that encourages vaccines? If so, I would like to know so I can donate to it every I see an anti-vax article pop up. Sure it's a parents choice, even though I consider not vaccinating bordering on child abuse, but that being said, as a parent of an innocent child who can't get all the vaccines yet, I want to help any group working to at least get the right information out there.”

“You should really take the time to read Ellis' posts. Maybe you would see just how harmful your irrationality is.”

“Why the discount, because it's not peer reviewed. Science does not work on pre conceived notions, wishes, or hunches. It works on data and facts. Most journals are not run by the government or the pharma companies, but rather academic institutions. Why discount science? If you don't like the method or what it's brought, stop using your computer.”

“If parents decide not to get their children vaccinated, please do the rest of us a favor and keep your kids away from ours. Far away.”

“what area of the rather large autism spectrum are these recoveries taken place in? and to what extent?”

“Safeminds.org is a biased, agenda based website. The link to you provided is a study done by them. Any study worth looking at needs to be peer reviewed and neutral.”

“So you are saying you are completely knowledgeable of autism? What about the overwhelming majority of cases of autism that occur without or before vaccinations? No one is saying head injuries are a cause. It could be genetics, sensory maladjustment , and so forth. We need science to figure what's going on, and when something like the vaccine/autism link is counted out, we need to look elsewhere. That's how progress happens. When the questions of a vaccine linked were first raised, the scientific community put a lot of time and effort to investigate it. Note the term, investigate, not validate. If you go out to validate, you are not doing real science, and it serves no one.”

“There are always other variables to consider. What you are talking about is anecdotal evidence, which isn't the basis of a good scientific study. People claim a lot of things, but we need peer reviewed research in order to find out what is going on, not just somebody's belief. Beliefs are often wrong, and someone without the right training in science may make these assumptions. That's normally fine unless it causes harm, and in terms of the anti-vaxers, they have no credible scientific evidence to back up their claims and the claim itself is dangerous because people are not getting the vaccines their children need. No child should suffer because of someone's unfounded belief. That said, please address the points I made in the comment above if you wish to debate this further.”

“@ Dugmaze

We have debated this topic for sometime now. You have made your position quite clear. I will say I am rather confused by your SBM comment. Please elaborate. I'm talking about the scientific method and responding to these arguments as you and other like minded anti-vaxers present your arguments.

Exactly. How do you leap from advocating for vaccines to this?
It's not a leap at all. I don't want children dying of diseases that they should not because pseudo-scientific people are going around spreading unfounded fear about an autism/vaccine connection. I also want the research to be directed towards real solutions, not conspiracy theories that have been debunked, over and over and over again. People dealing with autism deserve as much.”

“No, it's not clear evidence of the effect. This is why people keep repeating, correlation does not equal causation. Just because vaccines are often given the same time for most children, and some children (not all) develop the symptoms roughly around the same time does not necessarily indicate a cause there. Here is a common example I pulled from wiki.

As ice cream sales increase, the rate of drowning deaths increases sharply.
Therefore, ice cream causes drowning.
The aforementioned example fails to recognize the importance of time in relationship to ice cream sales. Ice cream is sold during the summer months at a much greater rate, and it is during the summer months that people are more likely to engage in activities involving water, such as swimming. The increased drowning deaths are simply caused by more exposure to water based activities, not ice cream.

Japan, for example, banned their MMR vaccines and still saw a rise in Autism.
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn7076-autism-rises-despite-mmr-ban-in-japan.html

I'm not saying that parents are a bad source for info, There are plenty of parents and families, including my own family, who want answers, we are looking for those in the science and rational inquiry. We all want answers, but chasing shadows down rabbit holes is only going to delay that progress, and in terms of vaccines, cause a lot of harm to innocent children whose parents are too scared to get the much needed vaccines.”

“My advise is to let real science work. And to love the person without conditions, to help them get through life the best way you can, and learn from them as they depend on you. That's my advise. It's juvenile for you to call me obstructionist because the evidence does not agree with your postition. I wouldn't keep commenting on these threads but for the danger of scaring people away from life saving vaccines. To call me an obstructionist is to say I don't want results and progress. Just the opposite. I want NO child to go through what my brother has. To say my intentions are any less is just crass.”

“Watching someone you love deal with severe autism is hard. I know from 30 years of experience. So I do not wish to sound cold, but when I read statements like:
"For over a decade, I've relentlessly searched for answers to the connections I believe exist between my son's autism and vaccines he received."­, it disturbs me. That isn't how science works. If you go out looking for anwers, any bit of anecdotal evidence, pseudoscience, and nonsense will look more convincing. You talk about the "hardcore science", well the best researh does not show a link. I'm sorry for what you have dealt with, but there is harm when real science is needed to find out what's going on for our families. Chaising windmills does not help that progress, and feeding the vaccine scare is just dangerous to everyone else.”

“Rowzy who?”

“"It is time we realize - as he does - that change is a process and not an event."

That pretty much says it all. Well done.”

“It needed to be said. Kids don't know how cool vampires can be. But then again, my generation had the clove smoking goths, which were sort of annoying. I just wonder what the mormon/twilight connection is.”

“I have to say, I like the guy.”

“Very solid comment on the situation.”

“Your avatar fits.”

“Very true.”

“I believe there's more to this life because I've read Huxley, Hesse, Whitman. That's enough for me. Of course, many fine atheists, christians, and so forth have probably read the same books. and that's cool. But you'll rarely find me trying to push my views on others. When it comes to ghosts, I have no idea, but I find it interesting.”

“There are some theories that use the analogy of the brain as a transmitter. Sort of like a television. The TV breaks, but the signal is still there. Somewhat like what Aldous Huxley came to think. The analogy is still debatable with out current knowledge of mind. There are some interesting debaters regarding mind. I really like the book, Hidden Dimensions by B. ALan Wallace. Not making a claim myself, but it's interesting.”