“No, I am for myself and others and you are an apologist for an emerging police state.
It is not human nature to have a giant state apparatus spy on everyone.
and realistic or unrealistic notions of privacy are to be determined by the people in a democratic nation, not the secret police.
I apologize for the lake comment. But you set me off with your willingness to accept this in any way.
It may be that we are stuck with this forever after. But why make it easy for "them"?
Probable cause and warrants and all that is still enabling spying on criminals. Spying on everyone is making everyone a suspect, Then what is a suspect?
If everything is probable cause, then what is a probable cause?
We are entering the twilight zone of logic and law and rights. It is more like a novel by Franz Kafka than the Constitution of the United States.
Again I apologize for the lake thing. Stay dry.”
ChasG on Dec 10, 2013 at 11:38:10
“Forget about the lake comment. I'm not perfect, either. We're only human.
I am no one's apologist; I do not advocate illegal spying. I completely oppose warrantless wiretapping within the US. That said, collection of metadata and other information about us in the public domain is not "spying" per se.
Spying is very much in our human nature. However, I have seen no evidence of our giant state apparatus that our government is "spying" on everyone, as you repeatedly aver. The collection of metadata (like phone company billing records), tracking location data of cell phones emitting GPS signals, following cars in traffic, are every day policing activities that do not require a warrant. Generally, our privacy ends when we tell someone something we normally keep quiet. When we sign the phone company or the credit card company usage agreements that when they keep track of our usage of their services, and we have agreed to let them use those parts of our personal data that do not enable identity theft, then we have surrendered any reasonable expectation of privacy to protection of that information by the Fourth Amendment.
How do you think police are able to establish probable cause to obtain a search and seizure warrant? They do so with preliminary investigation that does not require a warrant, by looking at information that is not protected by the Fourth Amendment.
There is no evidence that NSA is spying on anyone in the US without a warrant. That misconception comes from those who are not distinguishing between preliminary investigation by law enforcement, versus SUBSEQUENT investigation by search and seizure of our persons, houses, papers and effects (which do not include any information we have shared with third parties, with the possible exception of information specifically made private by law, such as medical records protected under HIPAA, subject to laws which even limit the privacy of HIPAA information in certain investigations (such as the eligibility of an individual for workers' compensation or disability benefits). If we are collecting disability benefits, we are subject to investigation to determine if we are eligible.
The Fourth Amendment does not protect us from being investigated without a warrant.”
“No I was a Florida poll worker. And up close to it one could see two things. Neither of these things were Ralph Nader.
1. Bill Clinton and his girl friend Monica and his behavior was the biggest factor. I did not agree that it should have been important.......but it was to the old people who go to church in Florida. Who are the ones who vote. Voting precincts here tend to be in church auditoriums. Mine was. These people can find the churches they go to anyway every Sunday. The hugs and kisses at the door of our precinct demonstrated that amply.
2. The challenged of the votes in Palm Beach county was a Democratic challenge in one county they thought they would "win". A total recount of the State would have seen AL Gore as victor. By challenging only one cherry picked county it allowed Catherine Harris (Florida Secretary of State) and the Courts to push this vote count issue aside.
I promise you Al gore won the Florida election really. In my county (Duval) there were 22 thousand contestable votes that were at issue. Many more than the margin of win for Bush. The Nader vote was irrelevant.
What should third party candidates do surrender automatically ahead of an election? People have a perfect right to run for office. America needs a third and forth party today to shake off the corrupt Republicans and Democrat strangle hold.”
Graay Matter on Dec 10, 2013 at 06:46:34
“Your post is legit. There are other facets of that debacle too. Suffice it say that the Democtatic Party leadership has refused to come to grips that it failed its party but not activating its sum total. Their focus groups and PR blitzes turn into empty promises as they try to out flank their opposition to the Right. I'd say that Obama right now is a Reagan Democrat: hawk on defense, status quo economy, cater to the upper crust while ignoring the vast majority in terms of policy that benefits the most.
It is a sad day in America when we see our first black President adopt all the policies of his Republican predessors. And nobody seems that concerned that is sctually the case. Nader said in 2000 "there isnt a dimes bit of difference between the two parties."
Set aside the dysfunction, So true now its startling.”
Dec 10, 2013 at 05:41:06
“I have Republican friends but it does make me pause. I do not like to let politics get in the way of things but sometimes it does anyway.
John Wayne the film actor was a right wing guy. I read where some more liberal actor disliked him before meeting him on some project. When they did meet he was just a super person to be around . I think it was a style in the past to be more normal when political.
I used to debate right wing folks publicly in the 1960s and after we would go out for beer and a snack. It is a different environment today.
But my right wing friends today and I know one anothers politics and do still have a good time together. But I think it is rare.”
alumcreek on Dec 10, 2013 at 06:45:06
“The difference in the RW then and now is amazing. The GOP had liberals and moderates in the past but they have all been purged from the party. Saint Ronnie would not be acceptable to the GOP today nor would Lincoln, Teddy Roosevelt, Ike Eisenhower or even Dick Nixon. Spiro Agnew would be because he was an unabashed thief and bribe taker and the current GOP appreciates people like that.”
“I know another good bike thing seldom used. At boating stores they have reflective tape. Put it all over you bike on every surface and you nearly glow in the dark. It makes your bike look like crap also, so people would not want to steal it so much.
Does not show turns ....but with lights it makes one super visible.
I have had people yell at me..."hey you glow in the dark mother"”
“Obama and Bush and the rest of Washington "deciders" do not come near the results of their work nor have much to do with the people who carry it out.
It is called having "no skin in the game". Modern American leaders have never seen combat at any time. They seldom come close to the people who fly drones or go into battle on their orders, or torture prisoners.
I doubt Obama would even go near the people who messed up the ACA website. Which is how all this unfortunate stuff happens.
Without "skin in the game" (being corporal) the incentive to do things correctly is removed.
It is made worse by modern American leaders having not even had any real experience in the past doing anything at all. Effectively they have no experience with doing things.
Our leaders pose and pretend on TV, that is about all we really get from them.
The NSA staffers are just one set of ignored "workers". It is an important and controversial program now. It is just possible that some NSA worker beside the administrator might have something relevant to tell a President.
James Clapper of the NSA lied to congress repeatedly. Maybe some other person there might be better for Obama to talk to privately.
Obama and Bush and the 'Deciders" in Washington operate it long distance. Everything they do is filtered through a fantasy of their handlers..
It is possible that no one is in charge really.”
DoctorGreeves on Dec 9, 2013 at 07:38:43
“Clapper should be prosecuted. He committed a felony when he lied to Congress. He knew better and should spend some quality time in the nearest stockade.”