mbbythesea's Comments (42)

“I think conservatives rightly fear that there will be insufficient cost controls and that this will be a giveaway to the insurers. That's why I am strongly in favor of NO MANDATES as per the Obama promise on the campaign trail--the only significant distinction from Hillary's proposal.

Look if you don't have insurance and you use the emergency room have an after-care option. Sign up persons for emergency care at one standard rate that is not such a colassal rip-off. Estimate the size of this group and have rates that have minimal penalites--but are not ridiculous--if they end up utilizing emergency care.

But really, look at the influence this healthcare lobby has on congress. 77% of all people want a public option and reform and still they can't overcome the corporate sponsors. I don't blame townhall-ers for screaming about no mandates---lots of people can barely afford to insure themselves and their own families--they don't want to take on the cost of insuring the rest of the population. They need to give assurances of cost savings--which is very hard to believe given the corporate greed involved. Citizens are already so screwed with War Debt and Bailouts that are taking or will take over1/3 of their taxes. Money taken with no benefit to citizens whatsoever. It hurts.”

“hi don! ...as part of election reform I am in favor of lie detector tests prior to big votes to assure that pols are not being 1.) bribed 2.) black-mailed.

We saw Karl Rove ask a Rep operative to follow the governor of AL to get pictures of him cheating on his wife. Do you think this is a first for Rove? These guys are all egomaniacs vulnerable to the most obvious forms of blackmail, esp given the predatory and indiscreet nature of modern media.

Things like you describe--anti-revolving door bribes must be anticipated and legislated iout of true election reform if we are to have a hope of getting the will of the electorate accomplished.”

“Izzy thank you. I hope you will talk to your group about the root problem here. This action is you're taking is necessary for this issue, now. In future do you really want to be fighting corporate power on every issue of public interest? Global Warming, out of control education costs, unfair tax systems? Please consider talking to your group about demanding publicly funded, clean elections where corporations are not permitted to sponsor political campaigns. They have elections like this in Europe. No paid political adverts, CSPAN only. We need strong corporations, but we also need things like jobs that are not outsourced. Leaders should be deciding based on the will of the people. Not on the will of Exxon and Aetna. We should organize our groups to demand this, make candidates sign pledges to support this cause, contact the media. This has to come from people, poliiticans will never suggest it.”

“Brothers, Sisters, Countrymen...let us not bullshit one another
If it is a question of threatening big business profits--there is no right way
they will criticize you if you formulate a plan (i.e. Hillary Care)
they will criticize you if you say "hey kids, let me know how you want to do this" (i.e. Obama-care)
they will criticize you if Jesus, Moses and Muhammed deliver unto you the best healthcare system you can imagine on golden parchment scrolls with choirs of angels singing in the background.

Yes we need to break the "stranglehold" that the healthcare industry has over the costs of medical coverage. But first we need to break the stranglehold that ALL corporations have over ALL political decisions. that way we can get affordable education...a planet that will not overheat and implode...a system of justice that is not imprisoning more non-violent offenders than any other country on earth... a tax system that is not giving our money away to corporations...a tax system where the rich are not skating by with minimal taxes while the middle class disappears before our eyes...etc. etc.

We NEED ELECTION REFORM so that corporations cannot buy politicians. Don't ya think?”

“yeah I think it's pretty obvious there's some disagreements going on and lots of confusion being generated...but the last poll I saw said that 77% of Americans (on both sides) want affordable healthcare--they want reform--and some surprising conservative groups want single payer.
It is really the people vs. the healthcare industry & their phony political representatives. except there are some pols (mostly dems) who realize that the critical mass of public demand is growing against them...and they are either trying to get it through or making a show of trying to get it through, depending on how you see it.”

“p.s. vanmungo I did not say that CEO salary accounted for 30% of admin costs...why don't you read what I wrote instead of busying yourself with passing out reading assignments?”

“my such a smug attitude. Yes indeed won't it be great to save 30% because of no CEO and no shareholders?? Yes I think we agree there. So sorry about those HCI stocks of yours, yes I hear the sound of them just tumbling.

Really you think this slice of the market will be just a llitte tiny sliver? I beg to differ. You think anyone is gonna sign on to pay high costs for shareholders?? Oh you do overestimate the extravagance of the American consumer, I assure you.
I love how you are trying to broadly sweep this big, chunk of savings under the rug. Like an incidental. Keep waving your arms around and shaking that highlighted bill in our faces...make that HUGE SAVINGS just dissipate like an insignificant incidential.... sure go for it....”

“seriously, Marco when will you desist from this High School musical mentality that we are all at a football game and the loveable hometeam Dems are on one side and those snobby, preppy cruel Republicans are on the other? I mean, yes I voted Dem because it was a better choice and yes your arguments have some insight... But please step 10,000 feet back and go big picture and you will see that both sides of this game have not served the people. And that is the problem. As intelligent citizens we should be brainstorming about how to take back our government. How to contact our groups and media outlets to demand that we have a system where we do not have corporations blatantly purchasing political power. We assume that it was always this way, but it does not have to be this way.

Did they come over on the May Flower so that we could stop being bossed around by the King of England and replace him with the guy who owns the Gun Powder Mill ? Or the Dry Goods Store Owner? Or the Healthcare conglomerate? Or Halliburton???”

“Actually that's not true...in Maryland they will arrest you if you do not have car insurance.

I believe Obama wants reform. And citizens want reform. There was a promise of no mandate from Obama. that was the only clear distinction between his idea of healthcare and Hillary's so really I wouldn't get all histrionic about the government chasing you down to pay your bills, BJ. What's next are ya gonna tell us about the death panels??”

“marco..hey I'm with you, the Republicans are like the party of greed. but really Dems don't have clean hands in all these things either.. they are just perhaps "contrast gainers" when compared to these other losers. True is our prosperity has been ransacked by the current system, because the artificsial people (legal def. for corporations is "an artifiscial person") they have been buying all the policy decisions for years on all sides. There went our environment. Affordable education. Worker's Rights. Other countries don't allow paid political advertising or for corporations to buy politicians. Like England for example (although they do have lobbyists) I don't know I just want citizens to control who their leaders are... IS THAT ASKING SO MUCH?”

“well gee, I am assuming that the new bill will not be paying a CEO 24.3 million like the Aetna guy and we will not be paying bilions to shareholders...so that's where the 30% savings is derived from...

and no discrimination for pre-existing conditons---was that really a fantasy trip of mine? Oh, my bad, I'll have them adjust my meds

just because I do not have my anxious nose up the latest healthcare comapny shareholder prospectus does not make me mis-informed but thanks so much for the link.”

“you know I'm no huge fan of Kerry but all he said was that Kennedy would have gone for what improvements he could get.

Maybe some little changes so that there is no discrim against pre-existing conditions and some limits on skyrocketing premiums...however...

The problem with Kerry is that he is sad-sack thinking like its the old days when Republicans ruled the roost. Dems are in the majority and must act decisively and stop this kind of begger-to-the-table mentality. (again the real underlying issue is that all these guys are being sponsored by the healthcare industry and this whole Kabuki-theater of one group sayiing "I vote NO because it's not pure enough" and another saying "I vote NO because it's too costly" just picture who is pulling the strings on this Punch and Judy act. PLEASE. They are voting NO because the multi-billion multi-national said to vote NO. C'mon people. Put down your blue and red pennant flags and THINK.”

“well said Eve ! exactly right”

“stupid arguments...

..where oh where is this magical state where they have such cheap health insurance. If only we could all go there! such an easy, simple solution only John McCain & United Healthcare could have thought of it

and these whining, selfish seniors who only care about their own asses. NO ONE IS TAKING YOUR HEALTH INSURANCE AWAY GRANNY! they are talking about getting rid of the waste, abuse & corporate giveaways. so go sell your healthcare stock and start remembering there are others who need these benefits also.”

“this sounds like defeatist talk to me

you know what ?? I think I'll take the public option as long as the following is true:
it's non-profit.....right there we will save 30% in admin costs
it does not discriminate for pre-existing conditions...big improvement
it will use it's large pool to collectively bargain for cheaper meds & supplies..that's a plus
it does not have corporate give aways like medicare...
it improves billing systems to reduce fraud claims
it standardizes and improves medical records to reduce waste & duplication & increase efficiency
there is sliding scale premium assistance for those who cannot afford it...
no over paid CEOs or executives
by defintion no shareholders

sounds good to me!! I don't want Dems to cut off their noses to spite their faces or get into majority pissing contests with Republicans If the bill contains these things, then it should be a go. It is simply going to be a bloody fight with the healthcare industry because I do think this option, if it is not a watered down scam, will put them out of business. Esp in a few years once start up costs decrease,”

“my point was both parties voted for the war under a fake pretext largely because the corporate sponsors wanted it. I am not making it an R/D issue. it is an issue of lobbyists that need to get un-entrenched. Now.ASAP.

I would say public funds for elections and no paid advertising--just CSPAN. pols can gather support via public venues like University auditoriums prior to hitting the airwaves. there have been many systems suggested for a more democratic voting system. I don't want to see IOWA or NH prioritized over other states--because why should they be? Incidentally, who was screaming on Meet the Press in March 2004 that the Iraq War had nothing to do with 911 ? Ted Kennedy. Since he was a known entity, his seat was pretty secure, and it can be implied from his body of work--that prioritzed the 'have-nots' that he did not have as fixed a corporate agenda as most pols.

really there's 2 things, (1) given the media's lack of discretion and the nature of our times: pols should get liar detector tests prior to big votes to assure they are not being blackmailed. (2) If we can get the money out and the threat of blackmail out, we will hopefully have public servants voting in the public's interest.

Until then you have the gentleman from United Healthcare and the gentlelady from Exxon cutting deals and making decisions about the lives of every citizen in this country.”

“If they cannot get meaningful healthcare now, they will lose momentum. The legislation will backslide rather than get built upon. It is indeed time for Democrats to pass a bill that defeats the corporate interests in favor of the public's greater interest. As we can see this is a Herculean task. It was easier for Bush to start a war, because the military/industrial lobby wanted it. So now Americans can see exactly how entrenched these lobbyists and corporate interests are--how they stir up the rabble and idiots for their purposes. How they have Dems saying "OH I WON'T PASS IT BECAUSE IT'S NOT GOOD ENOUGH" & Republicans & blue dogs saying "OH I WON'T PASS IT BECAUSE IT IS NOT FISCALLY CONSERVATIVE." Both are full of crap.

They don't want to pass it because the lobbyists who buy them don't want it. I think Obama and public opinion may finally carry the day in the end of this battle--but it's hard to say. My constant mantra is for publicly funded, clean elections, so we can have more un-purchased pols like Ted Kennedy and so every issue is not a fight with the corporate sponsors.”

“the need for the healthcare industry to reap billions of dollars of pure profit off of the pain and misery (and politiical non-representation because we don't have the money to purchase campaigns and politicians like they do) is simply bankrupting the country Jane. They are bankrupting medicare with their overly expensive services. They are bankrupting employers and individuals wiith premiums that are too high and offer too little value. We cannot afford to skip and delay and go back to the drawing board and indulge in all these little delaying tactics Republicans are so fond of. Was it Keynes that said "in the long run we are all dead" ? Well, we have experts who have drafted this legislation. It's been 40 f--ing years Jane. We know the issues. Sorry that you need to make money on your healthcare investments, guess you will have to move over to some other e-trade. WE CANNOT AFFORD TO KEEP GOING AS IS--GET IT? And that's putting the pure humanitarian issues aside--which Republicans are so fond of doing. We certainly cannot afford to extend medicaid or medicare as suggested Jane--until we stop the corporate giveaways and improve the systems that are--OOPs!--alls putting money in the pockets of greed. Like duplication, like the Bush prescription bill giveaways.”

“If they cannot get meaningful healthcare now, they will lose momentum. The legislation will backslide rather than get built upon. It is indeed time for Democrats to pay a bill that defeats the corporate interests in favor of the public's greater interest. As we can see this is a Herculean task. It was easier for Bush to start a war, because the military/industrial lobby wanted it. So now Americans can see exactly how entrenched these lobbyists and corporate interests are--how they stir up the rabble and idiots for their purposes. How they have Dems saying "OH I WON'T PASS IT BECAUSE IT'S NOT GOOD ENOUGH" & Republicans & blue dogs saying "OH I WON'T PASS IT BECAUSE IT IS NOT FISCALLY CONSERVATIVE." Both are full of crap. They don't want to pass it because the lobbyists who buy them don't want it. I think Obama and public opinion may finally carry the day in the end of this battle--but it's hard to say. My constant mantra is for publicly funded, clean elections, so we can have more un-purchased pols like Ted Kennedy and so every issue is not a fight with the corporate sponsors.”

“the public option IS the compromise from the single payer system--which did not make it to the table at all. John McCain and the rest are full it when they say "oh, we would have a health care bill if Ted Kennedy was negotiating it." Like the guy wasn't trying to do this for 40 years. It's time people realize affordable healthcare is not a fight between Democrats and Republicans, it is a fight between the American public and the corporate interests. period. We simply cannot afford to pour billions of public and private monies into the coffers of the heathcare industry---and they are fighting legislation reform tooth and nail. I do not believe Ted Kennedy would have put through useless and meaningless legislation just for the sake of saying they got a bill done. In the past, in a Republican landscape, he may have put through something that he could build on. However, Democrats currently have majorities in the House, the Senate and they hold the presidency.”

“Brian please consider blogging about the need for publicly funded clean elections.”

“WAKE UP MONTANA! Baccus betrayed the Democratic party and voters everywhere. Americans voted for a Democratic majority--which should be reflected on all committees. This disgusting pig Baccus decided to override that voter mandate by forming a 50/50 sub-committee that is trying to kill the reform of healthcare. He surrendered the Democratic majority in order to appease his healthcare campaign sponsors.

PLEASE We need publicly funded clean elections--elections where corporations are no longer in the driver's seat of political decisions. How did Bush manage to get a war so easily? Because the military/industrial lobby wanted it. Why can't we get affordable heathcare?-because it is the 2nd most powerful lobby in the country. We will never get affordable education, effective environmental initiatives, workers rights or any kind of consumer protections until our election process is reformed. Other countries have voting systems where business interests are barred from buying influence---why can't we? Additionally, we need to require lie detector tests to assure that politician's votes are not being bribed and/or blackmailed. These idiots all have their little looming sex scandals going on aside from their greed & ambition---the public's interest must be protected from these kind of motivations. If you imagine this is hyperbole, ask yourself why Karl Rove was hiring republican operatives to follow the Alabama Governor and get pictures of him cheating on his wife. Do you think this was the first time Rove employed this tactic?”

“It's understandable there is a concern that such prosecutions would incite partisan wars that would interfere with solving the huge problems we face and it's likely there would be some implicated on the democratic side of the aisle which would be damaging--the admin wants to get things done, not appear to be punishing their opponents--like an Argentinian hit squad (anyone see Evita?) however, the scope and seriousness of these crimes cannot be ignored. My question is this---we saw an administration orchestrate an un-necessary war with illegal lies that tanked the American economy and caused many needless deaths----can the culprits be sued civilly as well as criminally? Because the Bush fortune and the fortunes of criminals at Blackwater et al. should be attached with HUGE civil judgments on behalf of the American people. That would help our financial problems. In the same vein, the Wall Street Robber Barons--particularly Goldman Sachs--who defrauded their clients and ran up the costs of gas and food via improper interference in the commodities market should be sued and fined--HUGE FINES-- in order to regain the prosperity that was stolen from Americans. Otherwise we will see generations suffer for our failure to prosecute wrongdoing. I am a great fan of the Obama administration, I hope they find the courage to act on these imperatives.”

“yes well, even if you don't value your worth with having a job, a home, the ability to pay for meals...others do. what choice are people left with? being supported by relatives? not such a great option for many.

If we were Denmark. Canada, Switzerland, the Netherland or many other countries that provide support until we got back on our feet, perhaps people wouldn't feel so desperate. We should look at our cultural lapses in compassion and safety nets before we start blaming individuals that need assistance.

I hope people will hang in there, surely better days are coming. in the meantime, you are not alone and many of us understand how horrible a position so many have been put in and how devastating it is.”

“WHAT A BUNCH OF UNIMAGINABLE BASTARDS REPUBLICANS ARE
THEY ARE SETTING THE STAGE FOR BIG JOHN MCCAIN TO COME IN AND SAVE THE BILL
WAIT AND SEE
IT'S POLITICAL GRAND-STANDING
BECAUSE MCCAIN IS SINKING IN THE POLLS
THEY WANT TO USE THIS GLOBAL MARKET CRISIS TO PLAY POLITICS

OTHERWISE IT IS LIKELY
THE REPUBLICAN POLICIES WILL BE RESPONSIBLE FOR GREAT DEPRESSION, THE SEQUEL”