“Of course they were. It's well known that Hitler, his government and the majority of Germans, Mussolini and most Italians, not forgetting the Pope and the rest of the Vatican, were all atheists.
Anyway, capitalism isn't an atheist ideology. Buddhism, however most certainly is an atheist religion... and look at all the problems they've caused the world.”
“Seems my comment was deleted almost immediately. So to recap without referring to Warsi's intelligence, it looks like the Baroness doesn't actually know what secularism is. From her reference to Islamophobia it would be fair to infer that she is accusing all secularists of being atheists or anti-theists. I wonder what secular Muslims, Jews and Christians would make of that.
What she and others like her don't want to acknowledge is that it is secularism that has made religious wars in Europe a pretty rare event.
Anti-secularists, such as the Baroness, take the view that discriminating against the oppression of State religion is itself oppressive.”
Craig Chance on Mar 30, 2014 at 05:27:52
“All major wars in the last century were caused by atheist ideologies and have killed more people than in the entire history of mankind. Capitalism being the major cause”
UKVisitor on Mar 30, 2014 at 03:25:00
“As Churchill said, if it wasn't for the benefits that Secular science brought to the West, in the teeth of religious opposition too, we'd all be under Shariah law now.
Surely the Baroness couldn't want that? She couldn't be a minister if we were an Islamic state ( so I guess NOTHING is all bad!)”
No he doesn't. There is no science here. Not an iota.”
SteveCampsOut on Sep 25, 2013 at 21:07:56
“Nigerian! That's all I needed to know to understand that this guy wasn't selling anything true! Next he'll be telling you you won the English Lottery if you'll just send him your bank account information!”
“Well, you'd cry a bit too if you were stomped on. Not nice at all and I'd think it hurts quite a lot.
As for the rest - I spy a good deal of anthropomorphism. I expect elephant counsellors and homeopaths will be queuing up to offer their "proven" remedies...”
Sep 4, 2013 at 05:22:33
“I made no claims for myself. You however claimed to have a background in science, which is totally contradicted by the arrant drivel you write. You transparently have no background in science - if you had it would be evident, and you wouldn't be writing the idiot tosh you do. Simple.
Whoever you'd like me to think you are, the more you write the more you demonstrate you don't have a clue. All you write about is your own unsubstantiated speculation. You still don't provide any data or shred of evidence to support any of your assertions.
Also you seem to be incapable of distinguishing between medical science and business practice - a tendency common among alternative reality medicine advocates.
You do know, I suppose, that scientists and doctors are actually real people? As are the members of the FDA and all the hundreds of thousands and more who work in the pharmaceutical industry. You can't give me a good reason why they should be killing themselves, can you?
The science is what it is despite whatever machinations go on in your silly head. I suggest you stop trolling and get out more. Get yourself educated, because you are pretty ignorant, and get yourself a life.”
Sep 3, 2013 at 17:38:40
“By the way, the reason you don't see doctors read that stuff is twofold.
1. You personally don't visit doctors so much, and when you do it's almost certainly the same doctor each time - and the purpose of your personal visit has nothing to do with vaccination.
2. Doctors only have to read the labels once. The same labels say the same things. So for sure doctors, once they've read a particular label, don't tend to re-read the same old stuff.
Do you read the labels on everything you buy every single time you buy them. Toothpaste, washing liquid, deodorant...? Every time? Don't be idiotic!
Also I'd say that if you personally read the ingredients on a vaccine label, you lack the education and knowledge to understand it and know what context in which to set it. Hence your hysterically ignorant rant.”
Sep 3, 2013 at 17:26:50
“They are ignorant and actually do not understand the subject.
Their ignorance leads to fear, and their fear makes them prey to unscrupulous, money grabbing medical frauds and incontrovertible liars (according to the judiciary and medical boards) like Andrew Wakefield, the Geiers, and celebrity "experts" like Jenny McCarthy.
These frauds and others present a nice, simple scenario that credulous, scientifically illiterate people can readily understand. They present the real medical profession as monsters, out to kill the public, and for various fees and donations these medical frauds and charlatans offer promises of salvation and eternal, pain-free life (like they had in the wonderful middle ages).
The difficulties and discipline of real academic study, the notions of evidence and intellectual integrity and honesty are alien ideas to the anti-vaccination hordes. For them it's all so much easier to appeal to the authority of medical fraudsters and judicially proven liars.”
Sep 3, 2013 at 17:06:35
“Of course you provide no evidence to support your diatribe. If auto-immune diseases are "skyrocketing" as you put it then perhaps you'd be so kind as to provide the data. It must be somewhere, obviously, if you are so insistent. But of course you can't provide the data because it only exists according to your imagination and the tosh you find on the )Internet to support your fantasy. Data please.
You write as if no-one ever got ill or died before the existence of vaccination. I beg you to learn the history of smallpox and polio, and some of the other diseases like diphtheria. It's certain you have never seen the death and misery these diseases can cause. Then devote your sad ignorant life to learning something about endocrinology and epidemiology.
You rant as you do because you, like other ant-vaccination fanatics, haven't the faintest idea what you're on about. You don't even know what endocrinology is, and even if you look it up (which I know you will) you will be none the wiser. Fortunately there are cleverer, les arrogant, people than you in the world - which isn't difficult.”
Sep 2, 2013 at 20:07:27
“No, the ignorant tripe you write says loud and clear that your background is most definitely not science - which is why you aren't going to say any more about yourself.
Even if your father were Albert Einstein you demonstrate you know precious little about anything to do with science. You don't get to practice medicine just because your dad was a doctor. And even if he was a doctor, so what? It doesn't mean he was a good doctor. It confers nothing on you, as the rubbish you write so clearly demonstrates.
What you write about communicable disease and vaccination is incontrovertible tosh. A right little Walter Mitty, eh!”
SHOCKEDAGAIN on Sep 3, 2013 at 20:12:10
“a new door of perception.”
SHOCKEDAGAIN on Sep 3, 2013 at 20:09:20
“It would be foolish to reveal so much of oneself in the internet, don't you think? You don't, do you?
What an arrogance you demonstrate. And I thought you could be a person who might perhaps at least have the scientific curiosity to ask then what other methods I thought could be more useful.
It seems your way is the only truth. OM! It is what I thought, it's a religion.
With that little curiosity, you obviously feel attacked and have to react so emotionally. I thought you too were in the scientific field. My mistake. Holding beliefs like that is what is called dogma. Can't advance in awareness or grow in knowledge of any kind.
Why you feel so threatened? Are you the head of a church or something?
You know the field of medicine is expanding, and you might have been missing a huge chunk of reality when you studied it. That's why so many patients are fed up with the do nothing, create more problems for all, slow sure killing of the mainstream medicine. Patients ultimately are the ones who know and live with the facts. But their problems just keep on growing anytime we give a medication.
Don't you think? ; )
How about the conflict of interests in the current 'scientific' environment. Have you seen which are the papers which do not get published? Why? What are the ones the newspaper put on the front page? Take a look it might open a”
Sep 2, 2013 at 19:53:19
“"...but if you lose a leg, you're on your own!"
Actually you're on one leg. ;)”
SHOCKEDAGAIN on Sep 3, 2013 at 20:54:05
“If we lose one leg, we still have the brain to think and make a leg out of some technology. Because whatever that is, Universe, god, intelligence, information, however you want to call it -- gave us the ability to question and to create.
Sep 2, 2013 at 19:50:58
“You are right that people should be investigated. You could go further and say they should be held accountable. But that's as far as the agreement goes.
God gives nothing because there is no god. The ancient Egyptians and Greeks didn't know your god. They had gods of their own, equally as imaginary and daft.
Man acquires knowledge by searching for it and testing it. Observation, experiment and analysis (and repeating the process, for science is always a work in progress), not wishful thinking and praying for it.”
SHOCKEDAGAIN on Sep 3, 2013 at 21:59:04
“If you live in Italy you probably are not aware of what is going on with the revolving door in Washington and the biotech companies. Nor how the FDA approves the drugs, how little they are tested, the briberies, the blackmailing, and the corruption that goes on. Did you know about the spying and stalking the FDA did to the physicians and scientists recently? It was in the NYTimes. This is Democracynow.org ( with Amy Goodman, one of the most objective and best investigative journalists we have in the US):
Investigate the process how the literature of the medications are included in the DSM, and how the FDA tests (if tests at all) the drugs it approves and how the approval process goes.
You know, you fell in the trap of the Kool-aid of this article. It is meant to see who is with vaccines, and to keep the reaction alive about the stupid religious people who won't vaccinate. It's called PR. Do you know who is Edward Bernays?
Some of us who are FOR science, and have background in science, have had to take a look at what's behind our biotech industry... out of what I call "forced experiences." Unfortunately. Open you eyes. But in Italy, you won't see much.”
Joyce Otway on Sep 3, 2013 at 10:14:29
“You had your say and it is appreciated though I disagree with some of your comments .”
Sep 2, 2013 at 19:41:59
“As I wrote earlier, you clearly don't understand any of this. You are way out of your depth. Your talk of "enhancing" and "increasing" the immune system speaks volumes for your ignorance. You appear to have no idea what the immune system is. In fact you knowledge of biology seems to be about zero.”
Sep 2, 2013 at 18:07:37
“Complications of measles may include:
Ear infection. One of the most common complications of measles is a bacterial ear infection.
Bronchitis, laryngitis or croup. Measles may lead to inflammation of your voice box (larynx) or inflammation of the inner walls that line the main air passageways of your lungs (bronchial tubes).
Pneumonia. Pneumonia is a common complication of measles. People with compromised immune systems can develop an especially dangerous variety of pneumonia that is sometimes fatal.
Encephalitis. About 1 in 1,000 people with measles develops encephalitis, an inflammation of the brain that may cause vomiting, convulsions and, rarely, coma or even death. Encephalitis can closely follow measles, or it can occur months later.
Pregnancy problems. Pregnant women need to take special care to avoid measles, because the disease can cause pregnancy loss, preterm labor or low birth weight.
Low platelet count (thrombocytopenia). Measles may lead to a decrease in platelets — the type of blood cells that are essential for blood clotting.
Did I say death?
Children with compromised immune systems are particularly at risk, and not to immunise wherever possible is antisocial, selfish and very cruel. The risk to life from the measles vaccine itself is vanishingly small. The risk from the disease simply isn't. Ans once again you proudly display your total ignorance of the subject.”
sprite on Sep 3, 2013 at 16:18:21
“Yes, we have created our own monster -- countless children with compromised immune systems. And these are the little ones who are the most ravaged by the toxic chemical fixatives, carcinogens and pathogens found in every vaccine. Hence, the skyrocketing instances of auto-immune diseases and neurological/mental problems. Does anyone read the package insert that comes with the product? Many doctors don't even read it -- it's long with small print -- includes anaphylactic shock and death. I would never willingly inject these substances directly into my healthy baby's bloodstream -- substances that we are instructed not to touch with our bare hands or throw into the regular trash can.”
JoeTroll on Sep 3, 2013 at 09:31:39
“I truly have to ponder the motives of people like Shocked who get so upset that other people vaccinate their children. What's in it for him when they don't?”
sammi 56 on Sep 2, 2013 at 19:15:46
“Are these people totally nuts..or what...??”
SHOCKEDAGAIN on Sep 2, 2013 at 18:33:43
“All of which are taken care of the same way you take care of the cold or a flu. Children with compromised immune systems are particularly at risk: you answered your own question.
Think of increasing the immune system instead and all all is taken care of easily. Not by vaccines -- you know that vaccines do not "enhance" the immune system.
You seem to be carrying a fundamentalist religion in your own indoctrination there. Not scientific. You are not thinking. You are just repeating a belief. That is NOT science.”
Sep 2, 2013 at 17:58:20
“Sorry but you really don't have a clue. You say you aren't anti-science, but you demonstrate in your comments that you don't know what science is.
As far as human biology is concerned you clearly don't know what the immune system is, and you haven't the foggiest idea about the history of illness, mortality rates, vaccination or anything. A monument to ignorance.”
SHOCKEDAGAIN on Sep 2, 2013 at 19:25:50
“My background is science precisely. But your science is a stalled science. I am not going to tell you more about me but your are mistaken.
Yours is a very well funded religion dressed as science. You can take care of those common diseases by enhancing the immune system. Period. With science.
If you study from your patients and think more about immunology, cell biology, you will find the answer. I know you are required to follow a certain set of rules and beliefs and you are not allowed to think for yourself. But it can be done. Many are doing it in the medical profession but it takes thinking outside the box - with science. Pure science and lots of observation. Observation is the key here, not dogmatic learning.
There hasn't been a real progress in medicine since 1935. It's time to rethink what we are doing.
I know it sounds crazy. ”
“Sometimes a spirit doesn't even seem to know its own initials, never mind its name.
But the fundamental point remains, if there were such thing as a psychic he or she wouldn't need to ask any questions at all.
And think how intolerable it would be to have those voices in your head day in day out. Like a form of madness. Frankly it's shameful, if not surprising, that there are still people in the 21st century who fall for such obvious cynical nonsense.
If self-confessed psychics (because there is no other kind) actually believe in their abilities then they are probably in need of psychiatric care. But my guess is that most entertain no such belief. Cold reading is deliberate, cynical process and the people who do this sort of thing, if they are exploiting the bereaved and otherwise desperate or vulnerable, should imo be in prison.”
“I'm not accusing anyone of hypocrisy. I perfectly accept that people who pray (certainly those who pray regularly rather than hedging bets when in a spot of bother) are sincere. I have no doubt about it.
But even so I do take issue with the reasons people pray and what they pray for. Indeed I do insist that they aren't in fact doing anything useful for anyone except themselves when they pray. I certainly wouldn't say I hold people in contempt for praying, but you would be correct if you said I didn't respect the act of praying or the reasons people give for doing it. The reason I don't like prayer is that it harms reason and understanding. And more immediately it seeks to give credit where none is due and diverts it from where it undoubtedly is due.
I live in Italy and I have very many friends who claim to de devoutly Catholic. For me there is a great distinction between the belief or faith, on the one hand, and the person who holds that belief or faith. As long as the belief doesn't impinge on my life I couldn't care less what people believe in. But I don't have to respect the belief in order to respect my friends or anyone else. And those who are my friends obviously know that.
I hope this makes my position a little clearer. And thank you too for the civilised conversation. :)”
SHOCKEDAGAIN on Sep 3, 2013 at 21:38:10
“You live in Italy? For how long? You must eat a lot healthy food then! do you? Interesting.”
“They may well be therapeutic, but they are for the benefit of the person doing them. They can have no other benefit.
It might also be even more therapeutically beneficial to actually physically help other people - acts of unconditional kindness, altruism. That would really be the righteous thing to do, rather than petitioning the ether in the desperate hope being rewarded in the unevidenced and unlikely hereafter with eternal salvation (notwithstanding that "eternity" sounds like a ghastly idea).
Apart from its total implausibility, it's not endearing that prayer is an act, first and foremost, of utter selfishness and self-centredness.”
redcup1 on Apr 20, 2013 at 13:50:30
“People of 'faith' do not agree their prayers aren't helping anyone, so therefore they aren't being hypocritical. I have a feeling your comments are not out of concern for the well being of the 'faithful', but rather your contempt for them. I'm not a bible thumper, so you have no need to convince me of anything. Still they aren't hurting anyone, so i don't get your concern is all i'm saying. I do appreciate the respectful conversation, by the way. Enjoy your day :)”
“Praying = the delusion of chatting to yourself and thinking you are doing something useful. It's as useful as talking to the dog, or chatting with the plants in your garden.
Why do people pray? I think mostly, ultimately for their own self-esteem - to make themselves feel better (if not superior).
A more cynical person might say it's the lazy persons alternative to actually getting out and physically making the world a better place for us all. It takes no effort and is the equivalent of doing nothing.
Praying is the ultimate exercise in confirmation bias and self-deception. Whatever the outcome it will in some way vindicate your prayer.”
libr045 on Apr 20, 2013 at 17:49:48
“"Whatever the outcome it will in some way vindicate your prayer. " So you do admit prayers are answered!”
simon Bar on Apr 20, 2013 at 13:46:08
redcup1 on Apr 20, 2013 at 12:44:56
“Praying, talking to the dog and chatting with the plants in your garden aren't hurting anyone so why do you care. Some people find those activities therapeutic.”
“You are wrong. Berlusconi has written to voters (including me) promising to refund their IMU tax - the local tax equivalent to Britain's council tax. Nothing to do with the EU at all. Secondly the word is "poll", not "pole". FFS!”