realpolitic's Comments (4002)

“"The polls have been pretty consistent all year -- most Americans agree that a cap-and-trade bill is a good idea."

"Fifty-two percent of Americans said they support the proposed system to limit emissions, while 41 percent are opposed, according to an Ipsos Public Affairs poll released Friday morning. Seven percent were unsure of their thoughts on the bill."

"The poll lends a bit of a boost to the controversial environmental legislation in the U.S. before a global climate change summit kicks in to full effect in Copenhagen, Denmark."

"But I'm still reluctant to count on this support lasting. For one thing, the public's understanding of the issue is limited, and the larger national debate over proposed legislation has barely started. Are the poll numbers sustainable? What happens when the coal industry, Fox News, and the Republican National Committee start telling Americans that a "market-based approach" to climate change will require child sacrifices and human cannibalism? How quickly will support fade after the Council on American Goodness runs ads saying that President Obama's energy policies will make it illegal for families to use the bathroom?"


http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2009_12/021414.php”

“"Here are a few FACTS you should keep in mind about the stolen CRU emails:"

* "There is no evidence that any climate data have been tampered with.
* There are at least three other independent institutions, including NASA and NOAA, whose temperature data show similar warming trends.
* Hundreds of independent scientists have been studying the physics of climate science for the last half century and have amassed an overwhelming amount of evidence that human-caused global warming pollution is warming the planet.
* 2000 - 2009 was the warmest decade on record, according to the World Meteorological Organization and NOAA.
* The concentration of carbon dioxide in the earth's atmosphere is the highest it's been in at least the last 800,000 years.
* Global carbon dioxide emissions from the burning of fossil fuels increased 20% from 2000 to 2006 and are now more than 8 billion tons of carbon per year."

We also know that every major national academy of sciences, including America's, as well as thousands of scientists involved with the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change and scores of other scientific institutions agree that global warming is a clear and present danger and that we must take action to cut emissions.

"Radical ideologues misrepresenting the contents of stolen emails do not change these basic facts."”

“"Here are a few FACTS you should keep in mind:"

* "There is no evidence that any climate data have been tampered with.
* There are at least three other independent institutions, including NASA and NOAA, whose temperature data show similar warming trends.
* Hundreds of independent scientists have been studying the physics of climate science for the last half century and have amassed an overwhelming amount of evidence that human-caused global warming pollution is warming the planet.
* 2000 - 2009 was the warmest decade on record, according to the World Meteorological Organization and NOAA.
* The concentration of carbon dioxide in the earth's atmosphere is the highest it's been in at least the last 800,000 years.
* Global carbon dioxide emissions from the burning of fossil fuels increased 20% from 2000 to 2006 and are now more than 8 billion tons of carbon per year."

"We also know that every major national academy of sciences, including America's, as well as thousands of scientists involved with the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change and scores of other scientific institutions agree that global warming is a clear and present danger and that we must take action to cut emissions."

"Radical ideologues misrepresenting the contents of stolen emails do not change these basic facts."”

“"In fact, original data is held by meteorological services."

CRU scientist: "We haven't destroyed anything. The data is still there."

"According to an October 14 Greenwire article, Phil Jones, director of the Climatic Research Unit, said, "We haven't destroyed anything. The data is still there -- you can still get these stations from the [NOAA] National Climatic Data Center." The article said that Jones' statement came after the Competitive Enterprise Institute (CEI) "blasted the research unit for the 'suspicious destruction of its original data.' " The article further noted that Jones "said that the vast majority of the station data was not altered at all" and that "[t]he research unit has deleted less than 5 percent of its original station data because the stations had several discontinuities or were affected by urbanization trends, Jones said.""

"NASA climate modeler: "The original data is curated at the met services where it originated." In response to a comment on his blog Real Climate asking whether it is true that the CRU lost the data, Gavin Schmidt, a climate scientist at NASA's Goddard Institute for Space Studies, replied: "No. The original data is curated at the met services where it originated.""

http://mediamatters.org/research/200912080053”

“Read it and weep, NL!”

“Yes, but you fail to mention that the natural cycle that releases so many gigatons of co2 into the atmosphere is balanced by our breathing out co2 and plants breathing in co2. There is little net gain or loss.

On the other hand, CO2 accounts for 85 percent of all greenhouse gas emissions. But after plants and the ocean have absorbed all they can absorb, the remaining CO2 remains in the atmosphere, for about 100 years. Since the start of the Industrial Revolution. co2 has increased in the atmosphere from approximately 260 ppm to today's 385 ppm.

So, because we know that CO2 is a radiatively active gas that allows the shortwave (visible) radiation from the sun into the climate system and slows that same energy down on its way out as longwave (infrared) radiation, we quite clearly expect that adding more CO2 will raise the average temperature of the earth's surface.”

“No, my argument is that it has gotten warmer over the last two centuries and therefore I accept the overwhelming consensus among climate scientists that man is responsible for the warming through the release of greenhouse gases particularly co2 emissions into the atmosphere. Now we know co2 can be a driver or a feedback. Also, we know it has gotten warmer in the past because the earth has come out of ice ages before, but in the past like today most of the warming occurred after co2 began to be released in the environment, although in the past it was released by natural processes and not the burning of fossil fuels.”

“R2, what happened to your claim that 200 physicists wanted to overturn the strong stand affirming anthropogenic warming of the American Physical Society. It turns out they all work for coal companies and Big Energy.

The APS went so far to say...

"Rather, the signature petition seems to have originated within a small network of people, not field experts, but with a long history of manufacturing such things, plausibly at the Heartland Institute‘s NYC climate conference March 8-10, 2009."

http://getenergysmartnow.com/2009/11/11/aps-says-in-your-face-deniers/

It was the usual claptrack of deniers and so are the stolen emails.”

“There has already been an investigation by the AP. The AP studied all the e-mails for context, with five reporters reading and rereading them — about 1 million words in total. As part of the AP review, summaries of the e-mails that raised issues from the potential manipulation of data to intensely personal attacks were sent to seven experts in research ethics, climate science and science policy. It found...

"E-mails stolen from climate scientists show they stonewalled skeptics and discussed hiding data — but the messages don't support claims that the science of global warming was faked, according to an exhaustive review by The Associated Press."

"None of the e-mails flagged by the AP and sent to three climate scientists viewed as moderates in the field changed their view that global warming is man-made and a threat. Nor did it alter their support of the conclusions of the IPCC, which some of the scientists helped write."

"My overall interpretation of the scientific basis for (man-made) global warming is unaltered by the contents of these e-mails," said Gabriel Vecchi, a National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration scientist.

"Gerald North, a climate scientist at Texas A&M University, headed a National Academy of Sciences study that looked at — and upheld as valid — Mann's earlier studies that found the 1990s were the hottest years in centuries."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091212/ap_on_sc/climate_e_mails”

“Blankley's book is advertised at the end of the article titled The West's Last Chance. He sounds like he is calling for a crusade between the West and the Muslim world- not someone I would want advice from.”

“Science is science and does not represent the environmental movement. Otherwise please explain why temperatures are rising, the Arctic is melting along with mountain top glaciers all over the world, and the seas are rising and warming. I guess the natural environment is talking sides with scientists.”

“Yes, perhpas policy makers should have held the summit in Greenland where they could see the deterioration of the glaciers first hand!”

“Republicans always use drastic measures like threatening to "blow up" the filibuster and always win legislature victories and impose their will on fackless Democrats who capitulate. Why don't Democrats use what Republicans used to refer to as the nuclear option. Republicans will then say they will not work with Democrats, but have they worked with Democrats to date? Conservatives work for a narrow, selfish agenda to appease Wall Street fat cats, while using populist rhetoric to fool Main Street. A 60 vote rule to overcome a filibuster should not be the pitfall to blocking all progressive change.”

“Yes, the entire Obama financial team of Geitner, Bernanke, and Summers are all Wall Street fat cats who have given billions and billions to banks, but have done little for the person who can no longer afford the mortgage payments on his home. Obama regulated independent-minded reformers like Volker to second-tier status who would have done much more to regulate derivatives and and help the little guy. In fact, there is an angry populist backlash about how much has been done for Wall Street and how little for Main Street, as the market surges and unemployment hovers at 10%. This backlash may be Obama's undoing. I knew Obama was a centrist, but I thought he would do much more to help the downtrodden than he has shown a tendency to do to date.”

“Besides paying money to poor countries to combat climate change rich countries must cut their emissions as well or else the whole process is a joke. There should be guarantees about supporting alternative energy technologies, etc.”

“Blankley says: "To have such momentous decisions made in the backroom by a half-dozen leaders (without the public's having a chance to comment) and then to have it rubber-stamped by obedient backbench representatives and senators who have not even asserted their prerogative to read the bills they are told to vote for -- if that were to happen, then our people's Congress would become like the lackey-filled old Soviet Parliament."

Speaking of the lackeys in the old Soviet Parliament when do Republican legislators ever vote their conscience. They vote in unison, as if they are following the orders of Rush Limbaugh or some other lackey. There is no spirit of debate, haggling, or dissent from the party line. The discipline is amazing, but leads to brain-dead policies and politicians.”

“I don't know what you mean by a supermajority. They have 60 Democratic votes in the senate, one of them being Lieberman who is not even a Democrat.”

“Wow, many of the Democrats would not even have been elected if it was not for Obama and his long coattails.”

“No, Lieberman killed the public option and not Obama.”

“President Obama is working with a razor thin majority, but he still should get out front and fight for what he wants. I think in his heart he wants some single payer system or an expansion of Medicare, which would make a lot of sense. Those nearing 65 must have a really tough time getting insurance if out of work. Obama should be willing to go to the mattresses to fight for what he wants and compromise later and not start out with one compromise after another, while asking nothing from opponents.”

“The professor is right to say the senate should be reduced to like an American equivalent of the House of Lords, a purely symbolic body. Let the rich fat cats take the side of corporate lobbists purely on symbolic votes. They will find themselves very alone and after fighting progress for so many years, they deserve such isolation.

The problem with the bill is that it expands coverage without reducing costs, therefore conservatives can always moan how expensive it is. Only they undermined a "public option" that would have substantially reduced costs. Well, perhaps President Obama could appoint Joe Lieberman to an ambassadorship in some small, faraway, really hot country.”

“We do have a third world-type underbelly to one of the richest countries on earth here in America, but I disagree with not making an investment to cut emissions.”

“If the southern hemisphere countries want more flexibility and sacrifice from the richer northern hemisphere countries they should remind them of the climate refuggees that may soon be at their borders. Peru is already experiencing a lack of drinking waters as the glaciers in the Andes melt. It will be the same for the Himalayan region. If we can not get a deal just ask each country the best they are willing to do in terms of cutting emissions and put it in writing. Brazil sounds like it is ready to substantially cut emissions and Amazon clearing. The world needs to follow.”

“Yes, they seem to idolize former president Bush who by any standards had to be one of our worst presidents of all time.”

“Another anti-science post by my friend, Fumes.”