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robroy777's Comments

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Bacon Harms Male Fertility? Link Found Between Processed Meat, Semen Quality

Bacon Harms Male Fertility? Link Found Between Processed Meat, Semen Quality

Commented Oct 18, 2013 at 12:25:35 in Healthy Living

“Study was tiny (only 156 people) and possibly confounded by other stuff (what else do heavy bacon consumers do that reduces fertility in modern day america?...smoke, lots of fast food, etc.) that may be associated with reduced fertility.

So bacon doesn't necessarily lead to lower fertility. Just an association in a small study.”

Franceen on Oct 22, 2013 at 19:20:17

“Good catch. With that small a number of study participants, it's hardly a "study". And you're right, it could be any of another number of factors.”
Exercise Intensity Matters More Than Duration In Keeping Weight Off: Study

Exercise Intensity Matters More Than Duration In Keeping Weight Off: Study

Commented Sep 5, 2013 at 09:35:23 in Healthy Living

“There is a huge flaw in this article and in the press's interpretation of this study --no causation can be inferred in this study, as this is a cross-sectional dataset, so you cannot say for certain whether the exercise lowered BMI (or prevented BMI increase) over time or if less obese subjects were simply more likely to exercise more or at a higher intensity than more obese subjects.

It's a chicken and egg problem that cannot be resolved by cross-sectional data, such as the data used by this study from NHANES.”
New Approach For Black Women's Battle Against Obesity: 'Maintain, Don't Gain' (STUDY)

New Approach For Black Women's Battle Against Obesity: 'Maintain, Don't Gain' (STUDY)

Commented Aug 29, 2013 at 12:34:50 in Black Voices

“How is it healthy for the 10% of AA women who are morbidly obese (BMI >=40) to maintain weight? That level of excess weight will cause premature disease and premature death.”
Drinking During Pregnancy: Emily Oster, Author of 'Expecting Better', Explains Why It Might Be OK (VIDEO)

Drinking During Pregnancy: Emily Oster, Author of 'Expecting Better', Explains Why It Might Be OK (VIDEO)

Commented Aug 23, 2013 at 07:49:23 in Parents

“How do you know that? Go to the original data source for clinical guidelines with training in interpreting research and you get the straight dope. It appears she may have done that.”
Drinking During Pregnancy: Emily Oster, Author of 'Expecting Better', Explains Why It Might Be OK (VIDEO)

Drinking During Pregnancy: Emily Oster, Author of 'Expecting Better', Explains Why It Might Be OK (VIDEO)

Commented Aug 22, 2013 at 20:56:45 in Parents

“you mean giving the straight dope on pregnancy data then yes, she's a dope.”

Ice Angel on Aug 22, 2013 at 22:39:45

“She doesn't know what the straight dope IS. ”
Vegetarian And Vegan Pet Peeves: What Not To Say To Someone Who Doesn't Eat Meat

Vegetarian And Vegan Pet Peeves: What Not To Say To Someone Who Doesn't Eat Meat

Commented Jun 25, 2013 at 15:00:15 in Healthy Living

“You are probably correct and I try to keep my meat intake moderate (”
Vegetarian And Vegan Pet Peeves: What Not To Say To Someone Who Doesn't Eat Meat

Vegetarian And Vegan Pet Peeves: What Not To Say To Someone Who Doesn't Eat Meat

Commented Jun 25, 2013 at 14:21:16 in Healthy Living

“Yeah. The author's claims are probably from biased Western observational studies. The happiness, stress, and longer life is probably just the healthy user bias at work, not veganism, per se, because the average American meat eater is not exactly a Paleo follower -- more like a McDonald's follower.”
Vegetarian And Vegan Pet Peeves: What Not To Say To Someone Who Doesn't Eat Meat

Vegetarian And Vegan Pet Peeves: What Not To Say To Someone Who Doesn't Eat Meat

Commented Jun 25, 2013 at 14:09:34 in Healthy Living

“I've got a response to this comment by the author:

Author: "No matter their reason for choosing to forgo meat,...despite noted benefits like increased happiness, reduced stress and even potentially longer lives."

My response: "Vegan self-delusion is funny."”

Debbie338 on Jun 25, 2013 at 14:54:41

“You may or may not be right about veganism, but there is overwhelming evidence that eating MUCH less meat than the average American is much better for us. Most nutritionists recommend meat 2-3 times a week, not a DAY.”

James Kling on Jun 25, 2013 at 14:11:34

“Substitute "purported" for "noted."”
Sugary Breakfasts: Morning Meals With More Sugar Than A Snickers Bar

Sugary Breakfasts: Morning Meals With More Sugar Than A Snickers Bar

Commented Jun 17, 2013 at 09:35:27 in Healthy Living

“The problem with figuring out how much added sugars foods have is that no nutrition labels list added sugars because the food industry won't let them.

So the lactose in yogurt, a natural milk sugar, is lumped in with high fructose corn syrup. Which is biologically stupid, health policy stupid, and leaves everybody in the dark.”
Do Vegetarians Live Longer?

Do Vegetarians Live Longer?

Commented Jun 4, 2013 at 11:09:36 in Healthy Living

“pesco-veg had as low a mort risk as vegans. and healthy user bias may be at work given author quote:

"We believe that perceived healthfulness of vegetarian diets may be a major motivator of Adventist vegetarians."”
Healthy Breakfast Ideas: What Pro Athletes Eat In The Morning

Healthy Breakfast Ideas: What Pro Athletes Eat In The Morning

Commented Jun 3, 2013 at 10:03:28 in Healthy Living

“What is this egg-white junk? Whole eggs much more nutrient-dense and likely much more useful for energy and tissue repair than egg-whites.”

mgme on Jun 4, 2013 at 09:54:21

“I agree. I love eggs, I can't imagine only eating the white all the time!”

GilHGarcia on Jun 4, 2013 at 07:52:52

“I totally agree. Also, you're throwing away half the protein and keeping a decent share of the cholesterol when you dump the yolks. AND even though the yolks have most of the nutrients, as far as variety goes they're limited. Diversify!”

bogey1 on Jun 3, 2013 at 10:42:04

“its a ruse”
Mark Bittman Talks 'Vegan Before 6'

Mark Bittman Talks 'Vegan Before 6'

Commented May 10, 2013 at 11:07:19 in Healthy Living

“That's a very strong comment. This data indicates that full-fat dairy from good sources might actually improve health -reduce obesity risk (if reverse causation is not totally explaining the effect).

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=guyenet+and+dairy

Jessica Stranaham on May 10, 2013 at 16:19:51

“its not a strong comment its a true one if you actually look into it. there are many many risks associated with dairy that has nothing to do with weight but health (which is more important here really)- osteoperosis, strong link to prostate cancer, higher risk of hip fractures and contains human growth factor one a cancer fueling hormone just to name a few. Not to mention the antibiotics in conventional dairy which is a whole different story. If you want to talk about health and not weight, yes dairy is one of the worst things you can eat and much worse than meat. I stand by that. There is no dietary necessity for dairy. I hope you research into it some more.-

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23256145
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22891897
http://whqlibdoc.who.int/monograph/WHO_MONO_48_%28p11%29.pdf
http://www.nutritionmd.org/nutrition_tips/nutrition_tips_understand_foods/dairy.html
Mark Bittman Talks 'Vegan Before 6'

Mark Bittman Talks 'Vegan Before 6'

Commented May 9, 2013 at 15:41:38 in Healthy Living

“They can control for them somewhat but likely not fully so there is probably residual confounding. I know this because I have a masters in epidemiology.”
Mark Bittman Talks 'Vegan Before 6'

Mark Bittman Talks 'Vegan Before 6'

Commented May 9, 2013 at 15:29:22 in Healthy Living

“Yes.

Observational studies with healthy user bias (Western obs. studies) = worthless.

Observational studies within populations where veg and omnivores are likely very similar except for diet (see India) = great.”

I-US on May 9, 2013 at 15:34:02

“Not all Indians are vegetarians. And some Indians have a gene that predisposes them to heart attacks.”
Mark Bittman Talks 'Vegan Before 6'

Mark Bittman Talks 'Vegan Before 6'

Commented May 9, 2013 at 15:07:58 in Healthy Living

“I'm not sure what your point is.

So far I've heard a lot of talk by vegetarians/vegans but seen little objective clear data. The studies linked above are pretty worthless as most are observational studies with a tremendous amount of healthy user bias (and/or hardly any vegans) or are very small, short-term trials which don't tell you much.

Again, in Western populations, veganism = no smoking, drinking, lots of exercise and high health consciousness while omnivorism = a low quality hamburger, french fries, a soda, and a fried apple pie for dessert (likely from McDonald's).

There may be some truth that heavy meat consumption is bad (iron, heterocyclic amines from charring meat, IGF-1, etc.) but this does not mean eating no meat is better than moderate, high quality meat consumption.

You're logic is: high meat is bad (or meat eaters are unhealthy in the Western world) so no meat is good.

I think you've taken it too far. Compare CHD incidence and CHD mortality between India and France? Nuff said.

I think many people can likely be healthy on a veg-based diet (vegetarian). A vegan diet seems too extreme to be healthy long-term for most people but I could be wrong.

Regardless, no one really seems to have any meaningful data so this is all just chit chat.”

Jessica Stranaham on May 9, 2013 at 17:09:33

“only difference between vegetarian and a vegan is dairy. Why would you think that eating dairy is more healthy long term than cutting it out ? just curious because dairy is far worse health-wise than meat regardless if you are a vegan or not.”

I-US on May 9, 2013 at 15:20:55

“Did you just complain about observational studies and then refer to a comparison between France and India?”
Mark Bittman Talks 'Vegan Before 6'

Mark Bittman Talks 'Vegan Before 6'

Commented May 9, 2013 at 14:21:52 in Healthy Living

“Okay. I think that is noble. I just think that the best way to save the most animals from a nasty death in an industrial meat plant is to persuade people to eat less meat, not no meat.

Telling people to go vegan likely backfires.

Also pushing pastured animals would likely give animals a better, longer life prior to slaughter, which is also an ethical consideration.

I guess my argument is concerned with practicality and is like arguing for hunting wild animals in national parks: kill 10% of a herd and use the income to grow the other 90% to keep them alive and not extinct.”
Mark Bittman Talks 'Vegan Before 6'

Mark Bittman Talks 'Vegan Before 6'

Commented May 9, 2013 at 13:41:36 in Healthy Living

“If you have to ask that question then you don't understand. Google "healthy user bias and vegetarianism"”

NKNK on May 9, 2013 at 18:52:40

“"They can control for them somewhat but likely not fully so there is probably residual confounding." - Large samples that utilize proper sampling methods (true random sampling) take care of the little bit of "residual confounding" that cannot be controlled because not all variables are known or controllable. This is EXACTLY why random sampling is the best sampling method, but sadly, many people don't understand this basic, fundamental concept. There are just as many health nut freaks who think protein only ever comes from meat, as we do vegans who are interested in health, so whatever is not controllable would likely cancel out, especially with a large enough samples. "I know this because I have a masters in epidemiology" - In my experience, a masters degree does not offer thorough training in research methods. I teach research methods to masters students, and they are far worse than students who go straight on the doctoral path. On a side note, you should ask yourself why you have to mention your degree already in your second sentence. Many people here have masters and more advanced degrees, but they rarely use that fact to make their case.”

I-US on May 9, 2013 at 15:31:01

“Your assumption is that they found a whole foods vegan runner who doesn't smoke or drink to excess and compared her to a whiskey-swigging, hamburger-eating smoker who never moves from the card table. Don't you think that the researchers are able to control for some things?”

I-US on May 9, 2013 at 13:47:04

“Oh, I understand that you're looking for excuses. Healthy user bias, SAD, CAFO vs. pastured, low-carb, and on and on. Here is an article about somebody who reduced his consumption of animal products but still "cheats" and his health improved.”
Mark Bittman Talks 'Vegan Before 6'

Mark Bittman Talks 'Vegan Before 6'

Commented May 9, 2013 at 13:16:00 in Healthy Living

“Why not simply tell people to eat better quality animal products a little less often and eat lots of fruits and veg?

Because most people are not ever going to go vegan anyway. Veganism, like low-carb or Paleo, is too extreme for most people.”

robroy777 on May 9, 2013 at 14:21:52

“Okay. I think that is noble. I just think that the best way to save the most animals from a nasty death in an industrial meat plant is to persuade people to eat less meat, not no meat.

Telling people to go vegan likely backfires.

Also pushing pastured animals would likely give animals a better, longer life prior to slaughter, which is also an ethical consideration.

I guess my argument is concerned with practicality and is like arguing for hunting wild animals in national parks: kill 10% of a herd and use the income to grow the other 90% to keep them alive and not extinct.”

Joseph Shmoseph on May 9, 2013 at 14:14:37

“Because my primary motivation for veganism is ethical, not health.”
Mark Bittman Talks 'Vegan Before 6'

Mark Bittman Talks 'Vegan Before 6'

Commented May 9, 2013 at 13:15:54 in Healthy Living

“That's great, Joseph, and it may be that a vegan diet is very healthy for some people long-term.

However, no culture I am aware of has been completely vegan all the time (seasonally, yes) and most, even vegetarian Indians, eat animal products (eggs, cheese, etc.).

I just think that the baseline for a "healthy" diet is logically the diet that most healthy, non-Western cultures eat. Which is an omnivore diet. I do agree that industrial meat is cruel and most Americans should cut back on animal product consumption and eat free-range, pastured, etc. if possible.

My only real point is that there have been no good, long-term studies of a vegan lifestyle and that the healthy user bias is so strong in most modern, Westernized nations that to apply causation to the lack of meat as the health-promoting factor in a vegan/vegetarian diet is simply not possible with the data we have.

It's not like a typical American omnivore is a Paleo-diet follower. The average omnivore considers a hamburger with fries and a soda a normal, everyday meal.

I am worried about applying a radical diet (veganism) as a proscription for health when we simply do not have knowledge of its long-term consequences in most people. You may be fine, but what if a million people switched from SAD to vegan and 90% did it incorrectly (eg., did not supplement B12) and had negative consequences?”

Paleo Nouveau on May 9, 2013 at 20:13:42

“Rob, There are no vegan cultures that we know of. India's increased incidence of heart disease is mostly attributable to Western eating habits being adopted and massive consumption of very cheap junk food.
There are plenty of studies that point to the benefits of a plant based diet, however they tend to compare them to the general population who eats way worse. With that being said, if we look at it from anecdotal evidence on the longest and healthiest lived cultures, such as the people from Crete and Okinawa, you will find they are mostly plant based with meat eaten on rare occasions. Although diet is but only A factor and certainly not the only one, we can make an educated guess that this confers a benefit.

If we approach it from the evolutionary perspective it is far easier to forage than to hunt. My personal view is we evolved on mostly a plant based diet with occasional "feasts" of meat. Even so, there is a very plausible argument that we can do best on mostly a plant based diet which seems to be the way the science is directing us.

http://paleonouveau.com

Joseph Shmoseph on May 9, 2013 at 14:18:45

“Eventually enough time will have passed for a thorough examination of veganism, but as others have noted, such an examination may already have occurred. I agree with you that becoming a vegetarian or vegan without proper preparation is ill-advised.  Consider, though, how poorly most people eat in general.  In my experience, vegans tend to be especially aware of nutrition and related subjects.  ”

aerojls85 on May 9, 2013 at 13:58:48

“Thanks for this! F & F”
Mark Bittman Talks 'Vegan Before 6'

Mark Bittman Talks 'Vegan Before 6'

Commented May 9, 2013 at 13:08:04 in Healthy Living

“7th day adventists do not drink or smoke.”

I-US on May 9, 2013 at 13:31:39

“So?”
Mark Bittman Talks 'Vegan Before 6'

Mark Bittman Talks 'Vegan Before 6'

Commented May 9, 2013 at 12:28:03 in Healthy Living

“If the data exist then give them to me.

I guarantee all data will be from Western nations (US, Canada, UK) which means that the healthy user bias will basically make the results useless because vegetarians in these nations (as opposed to India) are generally wealthier and more health-conscious then omnivores and heavy meat-eaters so we cannot that their vegetarianism is the factor improving their health (it could be their higher education, wealth, drinking less, smoking less, exercising more, less sugar and processed foods, yada yada...).”

Tigerboy on May 9, 2013 at 14:49:09

“Oh, I see what you're saying ... you want to see the facts, which you have already decided you will dismiss! And, because vegans are so much healthier, you have determined that one cannot use vegans to demonstrate the healthfulness of a vegan diet. Is that about it?”

Italian-in-NY on May 9, 2013 at 14:48:39

“India has one of the highest incidence of heart disease FYI.”

2Paco on May 9, 2013 at 14:47:37

“So what's to say these vegans weren't healthy before changing their diet to no animal products? That makes the most sense. Chances are they don't smoke, drink excessively, exercise and eat a ton of fruit and vegetables and maybe are eating meat a few times a week and then decide to drop it completely. That is most logical for vegans doing it for health reasons. It's gradual and as more health information comes out on the negative aspects of consuming meat we will see this happening more and more.”
Mark Bittman Talks 'Vegan Before 6'

Mark Bittman Talks 'Vegan Before 6'

Commented May 9, 2013 at 11:25:09 in Healthy Living

“I'm not aware of any long-term trials analyzing the health effects of living decades as a vegan. So it's worrisome that a MD would advocate a lifestyle that is scientifically-untested and likely radically different than every culture in human history.”

arrows on May 9, 2013 at 18:27:31

“Does common sense need to be tested?

Look at those teeth in your mouth. Do they look like a cat's or a horse's teeth. The answer is of course horses. And that's because you evolved by eating almost entirely non animal products (plants, seeds, fruit, etc).

I know it hurts to think about eating no meat, but its unquestionably healthier. I know, my cholesterol dropped a ton when I changed my diet.”

tortillaj on May 9, 2013 at 17:43:07

“They exist, and there are many such studies. Don't ask other people to research for you, there are boundless studies showing meatless and dairy-free diets are incredibly healthier.”

robroy777 on May 9, 2013 at 13:08:04

“7th day adventists do not drink or smoke.”

Joseph Shmoseph on May 9, 2013 at 13:02:30

“Rob, I've lived two decades as a vegan and am in excellent health, and I have several friends who've been vegan even longer.

Whether or not there are studies out there, I am convinced that our personal stories, along with the fact vegans can get all the nutrients they need from plant-based sources (with the exception of B-12, for which there are supplements) leads to the conclusion that veganism is a healthy diet.

Just in case you wish to argue about our taking B-12: when omnivores are willing to abandon all facets of modern life and revert to a pre-technological way of living, then I will entertain ideas about veganism not being a "natural" diet.”

plantbasedpunk on May 9, 2013 at 12:53:07

“There are plenty of studies to support the health benefits of plant-based diets and plenty more linking meat and dairy to illness (e.g. heart disease, certain types of cancer). For a long term study, there was a study of 7th Day Adventists vegetarians over the course of something like 30 or 40 years. The evidence was clear that the vegetarian 7DAs lived healthier lives than the omnivorous ones. You have google, I'm sure you could dig it up if you care to.”

robroy777 on May 9, 2013 at 12:28:03

“If the data exist then give them to me.

I guarantee all data will be from Western nations (US, Canada, UK) which means that the healthy user bias will basically make the results useless because vegetarians in these nations (as opposed to India) are generally wealthier and more health-conscious then omnivores and heavy meat-eaters so we cannot that their vegetarianism is the factor improving their health (it could be their higher education, wealth, drinking less, smoking less, exercising more, less sugar and processed foods, yada yada...).”

roscomac on May 9, 2013 at 12:09:15

“Just because you're aware doesn't mean they don't exist. (They do.)”
Weight Gain Tied To Personality Changes, Impulsivity: Study

Weight Gain Tied To Personality Changes, Impulsivity: Study

Commented May 7, 2013 at 13:24:17 in Healthy Living

“If obesity is a dysregulation of body fat (a disruption to the adipostat, the homeostatic regulation of bodyfat) or like a tumor, then obese people are likely going to be hungrier and more predisposed to eat processed junk food than lean people.

So it may be biology/biochemistry driving behavior.”

The Pooch on May 7, 2013 at 14:28:43

“Very good point! If obesity is the result of an underlying hormonal dysregulation, those same hormone(s) could be creating hunger/cravings in the brain.”
Weight Gain Tied To Personality Changes, Impulsivity: Study

Weight Gain Tied To Personality Changes, Impulsivity: Study

Commented May 7, 2013 at 13:22:24 in Healthy Living

“More (biased) evidence that obese people are "gluttons and sloths."

Tell that to my obese co-worker who works out 5 days a week, goes to the chiropractor to fix said workout injuries, and eats lean cuisines for lunch.

I'll be watching that conversation while eating my brie, salami, and bread with chocolate and playing videogames.

Which I do constantly yet remain lean.”
Mediterranean Diet Lowers Cholesterol Levels Even When No Weight Loss Is Achieved, Study Finds

Mediterranean Diet Lowers Cholesterol Levels Even When No Weight Loss Is Achieved, Study Finds

Commented May 6, 2013 at 09:58:59 in Healthy Living

“Tiny study with multiple shifts in diet = yawn.”
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