“I am sorry I got married. I married a narcissist who lied and yessed me on everything I thought was important, while living a double life. Instead of having children with the narcissist a surrogate/sperm bank would have been a better idea. No custody battle there.No child support. No financial exploitation for 1/2 of the "marital enterprise", with only my real contribution disclosed to the court for division along with the narcissist/borderline personality convincing lies of fabricated contribution.
Who wants a divorcee unwillingly enmeshed in the court system because the ex has insatiable demands abetted by expensive lawyers?
Marriage wasn't worth it. I don't blame anyone for passing on marriage - they were smarter than me.”
amymari on Aug 17, 2013 at 23:19:30
“Sounds like a bad choice of partner? Did you see the signs of the narcissism (there are identifiable actions) but hoped something would change later when you were married?”
isisreptiles on Jul 28, 2013 at 01:24:31
“My first marriage was a disaster, but I realized that it was so was because of my poor choice of a partner, not marriage itself. I chose better the second time and have been married for a lot of years now.”
postmarkedjersey on Jul 27, 2013 at 20:52:34
“Hey you learned a valuble lesson...Its ok, your doing JUST fine :-) CHIN UP and its ok, your NOT the first one to make that misteak! Im pulling for you, you will get there!!”
iccheap on Jul 27, 2013 at 18:00:07
“well, i'd say it's less about marriage than your partner in that marriage. sorry that was your experience.”
“kingpleasure - the lady professor does and did have options other than soaking the ex-husband. First of all, I have sat on recruiting committees - if the hospital wants to hire badly enough a head of pediatric surgery with a working wife - then the hospital will throw its muscle around to get the wife a job she likes, if she plans to work, as part of the recruiting package for the husband. That's the past.
For the present - she can teach high school and get herself a decent pension. Or she can relocate to somewhere her services are needed - such as a less prestigious college/university and get the faculty position she wants. Educators do get good pensions - and these pensions are weighted to favor older workers (they often calculate pension amount by age of employee and years of service)”
Kingpleasure on Jan 20, 2012 at 12:44:42
“You are wrongfully assuming this woman is not working nor never worked. Wow, stop going off half cocked, talking what you know about a situation you know nothing about. This professor does work, I never said in my post that she didn't work. Wow, while you all are running off at the mouth, you should stop and read what you see and stop jumping to conclusions, and making inaccurate assumptions. Nobody asked you what 'she could do for employment'. She's already working. Go back and read what you see. Something you should be able to do if you sit on recruiting committees and have to read resumes.”
“Part II - the only solution is a legislative solution
Alimony fights are much too lucrative for divorce lawyers to give up without a whimper. And the lawyers and judges fraternize at continuing legal education seminars, bar association diinners, retirement parties and other life cycle events. And tell me that a $400+/hr lawyer is NOT in a position to influence a $75/hr judge or a legislator.
Legislation by the people of the alimony reform movement is the ONLY way to give ordinary people back their lives. And the legislation needs to be shepherded every step of the way through the statehouse, so that the divorce lawyers do NOT "kill in committee" bills to give breadwinners back their freedom for life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness after divorce.
Longterm/lifetime alimony exists for the financial benefit of divorce lawyers and unproductive ex-spouses. There is an adequate safety net already built into the system for the truly dependent. There is NO legitimate reason for lifetime/longterm alimony to continue.
There is nothing so powerful as an idea whose time has come. The time is now for all of us to let the hard working and economically productive breadwinners of today and tomorrow know that they can reap and keep the fruits of their labors.
Only legislation can get us there.”
“The only solution is a legislative solution.
It is hard to find a blogging recipient defending lifetime alimony. In my line of work, over the decades, I have seen many cohabitating divorcees, none of whom has either 'fessed up to milking the ex for alimony or complained about economic hardship the way others I work with do. The cohabitating divorcees do tell me that they won't get married because they do NOT want to ruin a good thing. Lifetime/longterm alimony is a dirty little secret finally being exposed.
Most reasonable divorcing couple can divide real assets in half and move on, even if one did the lion's share of the breadwinning, the housework and the childcare. Divorce lawyers can only get all those expensive billable hours if there is a prolonged fight - such as should the breadwinner give up a 1/3 of their future income at the time of divorce for the rest of their natural life to the other. Dangling this lottery jackpot size award to the less economically successful ex-spouse is irresistible. And the when the couple fills out the financial forms - the divorce lawyers know exactly how much liquid money is available to dissipate over this cursed battle for a lifetime income guarrantee at the expense of the breadwinner's future financial health and peace of mind.
Corrupt and greedy divorce lawyers have created and encouraged this travesty on ordinary people's lives.”
“delay marriage - before you jump in - go attend probate court. It is open to the public. Just go to the courthouse and ask for divorce court. Any one can sit and listen in.
Watch what happens when the love is gone and only greed remains.
Or when your love has moved on to someone else and just wants all your money, past, present and future earnings.”
public information about you indicates that you are a personal trainer (as in possibly working under the table), have run volunteer organizations, and have worked as an account executive. Moreover, you appear to be working as a "buyer" or "shopping expert". You have skills that either are already being used to earn a living or could be used to learn a living.”
1. The alimony reform movement is fueled by the energy of women --- women paying alimony, second wives, family members of alimony payors. Alimony reform goes far, far beyond grumpy old men.
2. To say that some one is permanently unemployable after a stint at home is misleading and incorrect. Talk to head hunters, community college admission officers and career counselors, companies looking to hire and then get back to all of us with your findings.
3. Sez who alimony is modifiable except in fantasy. Remember - the court system gets 66 cents for each dollar collected to pay for the judges retirement. Why would the judge threaten his/her retirement stipend by lowering someones alimony? Can you provide real life examples of alimony that was modified?
4. The push for the Equal Rights Amendment dates back to 1972. Any one born after 1950 or younger than 63 years old would know that women can work outside the house and have equal rights. How old are you? Did you go to high school or college in the 1970s and know what options women at that time were presented with?
5. Homemakers are not disposable. Child support covers not only the cost of raising children, but the mortgage, utilities and upkeep of the house the children are in and the vehicle the children are driven in. How much is enough? Why does alimony need to be added to that?”
“adults should behave like adults and assume adult responsiblities
cohabitation - in my state, if you cohabitate in public housing for more than 3 weeks you are required to pay 30% of your salary to rent. An adult who moves in with an alimony recipient should pay his/her fair share of the rent/mortgage/utilities/cost of housing and the the alimony payor's responsiblity should be reduced by that same amount. Since when should an able-bodied adult lover of an alimony recipient get free housing???
Of course it is double dipping to have 2 men support you.
As for laws - just use the laws already on the books for residents of public housing. And by the way, enforcement agencies can look up and garnish the income of anyone, including the adult lover of an alimony recipient.”
“Most "agreed upon" divorce agreements were done under duress. The defendant in a divorce is like a captured prisoner of war, except the tenets of the Geneva Peace Convention for the humane treatment of prisoners of war does not apply to them.
Review military interrogation techniques, especially the "fear up harsh" one, about whether or not true cooperation has been obtained from a prisoner of war.
Most signed divorce agreements contain coercion by divorce lawyers NOT permitted by the military with captured POWs.”
“It is more than time to investigate how much the court system depends on matching funds from the Federal Government. Is this why judges are SO reluctant to lower alimony and child support? Will lowering support payments also make less money available to the judges' salaries and retirement benefits?
My understanding of judges' retirement benefits is that they get 80% of the average of their top 3 years of salary and health insurance paid for life. If they take the bench at an older age, they can retire with fewer years of service. (Readiness to retire is calculated by years of service plus age).
Child support enforcement agencies CAN access your tax return and bank accounts. They would know if you are telling the truth about your income and assets or lying. The judge should not disbelieve you when the judge can access your tax return and bank accounts independently of you.”
“Rosenfeld1 - I dunno about yer situation. Sounds like you worked until age 35 - did you put into an IRA or retirement plan and let that money grow for the last 20 years? How come at age 55, the two of you haven't nearly paid off your mortgage in the house you have raised your children in? You both have to sign to take the equity out of the house. Doesn't your ex have a job with a retirement plan - and shouldn't about 10% of his pay gone into it for the duration of the 30+ years he has likely worked? What about taking a community college course to get some employable skills? Community college career path courses normally finish with an externship that places you with a potential employer for the last part of the learning. If the employer does not hire you, they can be your reference. (my business participates in several community college externships - that is how they work) .And at 62 you can start collecting on half of his social security. Something does not quite add up here.”
“If the overwhelming consensus is against permanent/long term alimony - why does the legislation get hijacked and defanged along the way? It took Massachusetts 6 years to finally pass the bill and dogged efforts by the grassroots alimony reform movement to keep the bill from sudden death in each and every committee it had to pass through. Ths is hardly representation by the people and for the people.
Divorce lawyers must make their money from these alimony fights and be unwilling to give them up, and they don't care about the gross unfairness of unnecessary and punitive alimony. Divorce lawyers must be unduly influencing judges and legislators to their own selfish personal gain.
Only legislation proposed and pushed through by grassroots alimony reform and spotlighted by the media will give ordinary people back their lives.”
Alimony Needs to Stop on Jan 21, 2012 at 12:08:59
“Most Legislators were lawyers. Who do you think they are going to take care of when they write/revise laws?”
“Thanks for the pollyanna view - that the "taker" who wants to "cash out the marriage" has actually thought about how the "giver" is going to live. Are you kidding???
End of mid-life is just about the best time to be on the take. The ex's earning capacity has probably peaked - and the judge can condemn the giver into paying the taker at that rate for life without hope of modification. Ya know that people live into their 80's now. That's alot of payouts for a long time.
The giver may want to slow down, kick back, take early retirement, or just get out of the rat-race. The taker can torpedo the giver's hopes and dreams of the good life after work.
While a 50/50 split of all genuine assets may not fairly reflect actual contribution - most people can live with that and move on, even when they are the giver and not the taker.
But for most taker personalities (narcissists, especially) no amount is ever enough when there is an opportunity to take more and a lawyer to justify the thought process.
Once the giver's future income is attached, especially after the giver is "over the hill" and the career has peaked you have ruined the giver's quality of life, and often health and future.
Not everyone matures with age or has empathy, compassion or nurturing capacity.”
tchspirit6 on Jan 6, 2012 at 19:05:40
“and if the giver is a control freak? whole other ball game. know what is like to have someone in control of your life?”
Onwardigo on Jan 6, 2012 at 12:39:21
“So Sejsw, am I supposed to feel guilty that my soon to be x of 60 years old, didn't think before he decided to cater to his own needs without a thought for his wife of 19 years and son of 16 years...and had a marriage ending affair?. Shouldn't this man (who, incidientally ended his first marriage with another affair), have thought that this time around, his fantasy of retiring (at age 60...with a 15 year old son!)....might not be the glory he always thought it would be? Well, if he didn't think that one through and realize that pension would not be all his, he certainly must've been thinking with the wrong head.
You bet I'm NOT feeling guilty about taking a good chunk of that pension! Just like I have to give him half of what I personally contributed to in retirement accounts my entire 20 year marriage.
Whos the giver, and whos the taker in this case? For every case like yours, there's a flipside, like mine.
I understand alot of these mens' anger at having to pay out, but if they'de married the right type in the first place, (one who REALLY believes in equality) they wouldn't be paying out the nose to maintain the lifestyle of shallow and materialistic women.”
“Acceptance and Spirituality only go so far. The ex is out to take everything and everyone that matters to you, for the pure pleasure of spitefulness.
The first line of defense is both lawyers. Both lawyers should have a clearly defined and mandated responsibility to evaluate their client. Since the legal profession cannot effectively police itself, both in and out of the courtroom, this will need to be a legislative mandate from the people. The alimony reform grassroots movement is just the beginning of this tidal wave.
Enough divorced people are fed up with the status quo to change it.
Secondly - get the profit out of two people deciding not to be together anymore. Cap lawyer's fees to "usual, customary and reasonable" amounts. And divorces can be managed just like DiagnosisRelatedGroups (how medicare pays hospitals for the 467 different types of inpatient illnesses). That should cap the amount of money society spends on divorcing, and leave enough resources for the couple to start over and take care of their children.”
“whaddya mean - screen for those malignant personality types and actually use the information to minimize the emotional and financial damage of divorce upon the children and the ex-spouse??? If it weren't for personality disordered divorcing spouses then divorce lawyers wouldn't have half a chance to work all those billable hours or charge $400+/hr. D'ya think the divorce bar would ever put it's own greed to overcharge ahead of limiting the damage a personality disordered spouse can wreak??”
715W on Dec 30, 2011 at 23:32:23
“To the divorce industry
personality disordered spouse = profit center
personality disordered spouse + dependent children = maximized profits”
“sez who?!? Perhaps the ex just plain flat out refuses to work or works under the table so that there is no reportable income on the ex's side. And then dings you for long-term support during the best earning years of your life - and hitches you back to chain gang - just when you were thinking about kicking back, relaxing and pursuing your own dreams.”
WSAY on Dec 26, 2011 at 23:16:25
“So what? You married her! Why should you be allowed to escape your responsibilities? If you didn't like the terms, why did you get married?”
“mediation means that the other side can hide assets and lie without commiting perjury. Of course, in divorce court no one really cares if you lie or commit perjury anyhow. It's all testimony - true or false.”
“Commit!!! Are you kidding?? After a "no-fault" divorce to "cash out of the marriage" with a never ending financial commitment whether you can afford it or not? Not only does it hurt to be dumped and find out about all the secretive places the ex went for affection, instead of being a partner in the relationship. Then to have the cushy retirement wiped out just when you thought it would be a good time to slow down and enjoy life. Commit to what? Who would risk the emotional and financial devastation of a no-fault divorce when the breadwinner is guilty of earning a living again?”
Icecube on Dec 10, 2011 at 12:37:52
“Already bought one woman a 400k home. I am now recovered to what I had. You think I would jeopardize my possessions, sanity, money again for love?
My first requirement is equal status period! It's what they say they are after anyway. I agree.
Never again will a woman arrive with a suitcase and leave with the house that I have a vested interest in.”
“My family decided to be inclusive and polite. The ex and assorted in-laws are invited so "whose house and whose turn" is not an issue. They are all more than happy not to have to cook or clean for company. With everyone milling around, it is easy to avoid the ex and the ex usually sits away from me at the table. That way the children always get to see their extended family, and cousins and no one misses out.”
“Quite frankly, valuing a small business or sole proprietor for divorce is unAmerican, anti-growth, and terrible for the economy. Instead of letting the small business keep its profits to give the employees deserved raises or bonuses, buy more equipment, rent more office space, and expand, the lazy, greedy, do-nothing ex-spouse gets a windfall of undeserved money off the backs of the business owner and the employees. Valuing a small business for divorce and dividing it in half deprives the economy of future jobs and prosperity. Since the divorce lawyers won't fix this, the state legislatures should and outlaw unfair property division of small business and sole proprietors in divorce.”
“the third number your ex will manipulate is the "growth rate". By falsely alleging that your business will grow at some % until the cows come home, the value of your business is once again inflated beyond reality. Especially if you are the sole proprietor. Small, successful business can have temporary periods of growth. If your spouse ditches you at this point, your business will be valued much too high. But once a business gets big enough, or saturates its markets, or competitors get wind of profits to be made - your "growth rate" can tank or even go negative. Valuators normally make the growth rate number positive, which can be oh so false, and obligate you to payments, even if your business does not have profits to pay.”
“the next number your ex will manipulate will be the "capitalization rate". The business owner wants this number to take into account all possible business risks. After all, the business owner is gonna have to pay 1/2 the so-called value of this "property division" over time, whether the business has the profits to do so or not. Your ex will downplay your risks to keep the so called risk premium as close to zero as is believable to the judge. Here is where your ex will have any one associated with your business unwittingly be taken advantage under oath to spout positivity about you and your business. Your accountant, business manager, office manager, major customer or supplier may think they are saying something nice about you and not realize that their comments are being used against you to overvalue you business.”
“dividing your business is like cutting your own baby in half. You are giving real cash to an ex who usually did far less than half, if anything at all to give your business a value. Plus your soon to be ex-spouse's actions during divorce distract you and take your head away from the business.
The name of your ex-spouse's game is to jack-up as high as possible your so-called cash flow by adding in "adjustments" - such as your employee Christmas bonuses and dough you paid for employer sponsored health insurance and other allegedly "frivolous" employee benefits and paying your employees wages "in excess" of someone's invented "normal salary range for that position". This artificially inflates the value of your business and sticks real money in your ex's pocket. Plus you get to pay two lawyers and two business valuators $300+/hour to argue about this.”
“for goodness sake, buy yourself a kegelcisor. learn gyrotonics to loosen those tight hip flexors, get deep tissue release for those pelvic muscles that have sat in chairs too long and gotten stuck together. And then your man will think he is with a younger woman. A little hormone cream helps also.”