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Islamic Sufism and Jewish Kabbalah: Shining a Light on Their Hidden History

Posted: 10/ 5/2011 10:14 pm

The world's Muslim believers and the Jewish people have significant aspects common to their traditions -- notwithstanding the persistence of conflict in the Middle East. Jews and Arabs both trace their lineage to the monotheistic prophet Abraham (Ibrahim in Arabic). Jews affirm their descent from Isaac, the son of Abraham and his wife Sarah, and Arabs from Ishmael (Ismail), the child of Abraham's Egyptian slave Hagar.

The posterity of Ismail extends, through affiliation with Islam, to many other ethnicities aside from the Arabs, across the globe. Yet, the Quran, the sacred text of Islam, repeatedly praises Moses (Musa), and Muslims, like Jews, believe that Moses alone, among the prophets, spoke directly to God. In addition, Jews and Muslims both circumcise their male offspring, the former at birth and the latter at or approaching puberty. And finally, the two religions share some dietary and other restrictions, such as a ban on consumption of pork.

Muslims and Jews further possess mystical customs -- Islamic Sufism and Jewish Kabbalah -- that are so close to one another that the presumption of mutual influence is inescapable. Yet the transmission of these spiritual doctrines and practices between them is still historically mysterious. At certain points, there is evidence for direct influence of Sufism on Jewish spirituality. Elsewhere, the path between the two is challenging to discern.

Sufism and Kabbalah alike fall into two general streams: the "theosophical," concerned with explaining the mystical content of the universe and humanity's relationship to God's creation, and the "ecstatic." Both Sufis and Kabbalists ascribe an external and a hidden meaning to their scriptures. But for the "theosophical" mystic, Muslim or Jewish, the mind is concentrated on performance of religious commandments according to their supernatural understanding. By contrast, the "ecstatic" seeks more than a refinement of the soul, and intimacy with God.

A leading Jewish author influenced by Sufism, Bahya ibn Pakuda, served as a Hebraic jurist in the Spanish city of Zaragoza during its Islamic period, before its reconquest by the Christians. Toward the end of the 11th century, he wrote a classic of Jewish ethics that is widely read today, "The Book of the Direction of the Duties of the Heart." Originally composed in Arabic, the common Jewish language in the period the great historian of Islam Bernard Lewis has called "the Judeo-Islamic" era, Bahya's work drew extensively on the writings of the early Arab Sufis, such as Dhunnun of Cairo, who died c.859. Bahya shared with the Sufis the belief that adherence to religious law would not, alone, secure the perfection of the soul, but that the believer must commit to God in the heart. He was not, however, an ecstatic -- he believed in loving God from a respectful distance.

The means employed by the ecstatic Sufis and ecstatic Kabbalists are often identical: absorption in repetition of the Names of God, accompanied by music and physical exertions. The Israeli scholar Moshe Idel, in his 1988 volume "The Mystical Experience in Abraham Abulafia," analyzed the biography of a Kabbalist born in Zaragoza in 1240, after it had been retaken by the Christians. Abulafia travelled through the Muslim and Eastern Christian countries before returning to Barcelona, where he began his Kabbalistic studies. His encounter with Kabbalah stimulated him to new and original ways of studying Jewish law that brought condemnation from the Jewish authorities of his time, although he was later acclaimed as a Jewish thinker.

Abulafia's methods for attaining ecstatic union with the divine had parallels in Sufism, Eastern Orthodox Christianity and yoga. These included reciting the names of God in combination with "a complex technique involving such components as breathing, singing, and movements of the head, which have nothing whatsoever to do with the traditional commandments of Judaism," in Idel's words.

Yet these procedures are widely known in Sufism. Idel notes one element in Abulafia's ecstatic Kabbalah -- a requirement for pronunciation of the divine names while breathing out, rather than taking in air -- and finds a parallel between this and Sufi discipline. In another of his works, "Studies in Ecstatic Kabbalah," Idel wrote on "the hypothesis that Jewish-Sufic tradition existed in the East, and likely also in Palestine." Abulafia's ecstatic Kabbalah, according to Idel, fused with "an unbroken chain of [Jewish] authors ... who developed a mystical trend under Sufic inspiration." This trend was "transmitted" from East to West in "a fascinating 'migration' of Kabbalistic theory." The ecstatic Kabbalah that originated in Barcelona came back to Christian-ruled Spain enriched by its encounter with Sufism. Idel concludes, "Palestine made a great contribution" to Kabbalah. "This contribution, ironically, was nurtured by Muslim mysticism."

So far Muslims have been less fortunate than Jews in that Sufis continue to be subjected to violent attack by Muslim fundamentalists, while Kabbalah has been assimilated into Orthodox Jewish observance. The religious consciousness shared in dialogue between the Muslim Sufis and the Jewish Kabbalists provides a positive example for the believers in each of the two religions today. We need not idealize this relationship; it may not solve the political problems of Israel and the contemporary Palestinian Arabs. But the links between Islamic Sufism and Jewish Kabbalah deserve to be studied and celebrated, and efforts should be made to resolve the enigmatic history of their parallel and common pathways. Jewish scholars have pioneered in fulfillment of this task; it is time for Muslim scholars to emulate them, from the other direction.

 
 
 
The world's Muslim believers and the Jewish people have significant aspects common to their traditions -- notwithstanding the persistence of conflict in the Middle East. Jews and Arabs both trace thei...
The world's Muslim believers and the Jewish people have significant aspects common to their traditions -- notwithstanding the persistence of conflict in the Middle East. Jews and Arabs both trace thei...
 
 
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Stacy Ann Tucker
Liberal with a capital "L"
09:10 PM on 11/27/2011
It's quite a stretch to presume that mainstream Muslims will accept Sufism as Kabbalah has been accepted by the Jewish community. First of all, Sufism itself has many different sects, at least one of which is more of a personality cult (Naqshbandis). Secondly, there is no central authority in Islam to affect such a change within the larger Muslim community. Third, the Sufis themselves are rather secretive about their beliefs because they know that they deviate far enough from the norm of Islamic thought that they are likely to be subjected to discrimination from the larger majority. Fourth, and more importantly, deviation from mainstream Islamic thought is considered a sin against God Himself (shirk) and is tantamount to apostasy.

The problem with the idea that "everyone is the same" is that it leads people to assume that everyone will respond the same way in similar situations. For example: the Japanese and the Germans thrived after they were conquered after WWII, therefore the Iraqis will, too.
11:27 PM on 11/14/2011
The Catholic and Eastern Orthodox tradition of mysticism is, oddly, very much like that of Tibetan Buddhism in particular. An excellent book on the links and parallels between Christ and Buddha was written some years back and is still a best-seller in its genre, I forget the name though.

The Monastic prayer and rhythm of Thomas Merton had such strong parallels with Buddhist monastic tradition that he and the Dalai lama became very close friends shortly before Merton's tragic death.

I'd recommend Seven Storey Mountain by Merton to anyone wishing to look into this world. But perhaps above all else comes Julian of Norwich's Cloud of Unknowing; a life-changing book still a best-seller several centuries after it was written. What binds all mystic prayer in the monotheistic traditions is the putting aside of internal dialogue and simply lifting the mind and soul to the still presence of God. Like Moses on the mountain, we find there that God is not in the fire nor the storm but in the whisper hanging on the breeze; in that quiet hush within us all.

It is, of course, the source of wisdom.

What binds us is far stronger than what separates us.

Pax vobiscum in aeternam.
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09:12 PM on 11/11/2011
JESUS said"Beware my children, for Satan and his demons have the ability to disguise themselves as angels of the light. Therefore do not be surprised when his ministers can do likewise"
From a jewish disciple of Jesus Christ, the Alpha and the Omega
03:38 PM on 10/27/2011
'I am now considerin­g going to India to investigat­e Indian Islamic history'

You could try investigating this while you're there: http://seanrobsville.blogspot.com/2009/12/destruction-of-buddhism-in-india.html
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Stephen Schwartz
08:31 AM on 10/20/2011
A humble request for clarification, since this discussion has gone on for two weeks now. I admit this is unrelated to events in medieval Islam and Judaism, but much has been said here about India. I am informed by my fellow "classic monotheists" in the group International Christian Concern about incidents on August 25-28, 2008 in Kandhamal, a Hindu-majority region in India’s eastern coastal state of Orissa. There, Christian settlements were torched, 25,000 Christians fled, and at least 28 people were slain. My Sufi colleagues in India have protested against this and against Christians being obstructed bureaucratically from erecting churches, as well as against “illegal occupation” of Christian properties. In May 2011, International Christian Concern reported that a 17-year old Christian female, Nirupama Pradhan, had been raped and murdered by Hindu militants in Kandhamal, and charged that “serial murders against Christians” were ongoing there. Comments?

I am now considering going to India to investigate Indian Islamic history and the relations of Sufism and Hinduism. I do note that somewhere in this thread I was asked if anything in Sufism was derived from sources older than Hinduism. I believe that Zoroastrianism is at least as old as Hinduism, though I may be wrong. Zoroastrian angelology -- the "science of lights" -- was introduced into Sufism by Shahab-ud-din Suhrawardi, who was accused of heresy and executed. Suhrawardian illuminationism also appears to have parallels in Kabbalah and, of course, Greek philosophy.
11:32 PM on 11/14/2011
As a former Roman Catholic seminarian I wanted to thank you for being a light in the wilderness. Sadly, violence plagues the lives of all those who do not understand themselves, and it doesn't limit itself to any one religion - as history has proved.

We're all on this spinning rock together, and it pleases me greatly to know Sufism is now finally on the rise again as a source of religious study among intelligent Muslims the world over.

The parallels between Catholic and Orthodox monasticism and Tibetan Buddhist monasticism are remarkable and I would recommend you to read up on the works of Thomas Merton and his engaging of Zen Buddhism prior to his death.

The older I get, the more I realise that what binds us all together is the silence; it is in the silence that we must face God and face ourselves.

Pax tecum, friend of the light!

"Peace to you from our Lord Jesus", as St Paul said to the Greeks.
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rocksage7
sustainability rocks
09:25 PM on 10/16/2011
SUFI is a name for Jesus......it means wooly one
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MrBlueBoyBlitz
02:26 PM on 10/13/2011
For the one thing we should be most humble about "God" - We are most arrogant, in past centuries we slaughtered each other in this or that ideology, now we fight with words (mostly, unless we are more medieval minded, btw I mean for all sides of the fences).
This ideological fighting, disrespect of each other, views, ideas, and basic humanity has nothing to do with God, imo I would put it in the camp of it's traditional enemy.
Stop fight, stop defending/attacking with this side of the fence is slightly better/righter/more true than that side of the fence, come on, we are human, we do not need to defend truth, truth defended is not true, let truth defend itself.

I am talking about real care for each others humanity, whatever label you need to put on this, just look at your sisters and brothers and open up to each other.
05:16 PM on 10/12/2011
Mr. Schwartz I am taking a look at your website that you recommended. I am sure there are many interesting things there.

I am looking at your website and I see ( Obey your country's laws, Marje Sistani urges Muslims in West http://www.islamicpluralism.org/1362/obey-country-laws-marje-ali-sistani)

It interesting to note that Al Sistani has a fatwa prohibiting muslims from assimilating in the West. You know why... he claims the west opposes and fights Islam. Is this the new promised thought you are leading us to?

http://www.islamopediaonline.org/fatwa/muslims-assimilation-behavior-and-cultural-norms-non-muslims

A Muslim's Assimilation [in behavior and cultural norms] to Non-Muslims:
Fatwa, posted 4.22.2010, from Iran, in: Fashion and Mode Islamic Dress Code Muslims in the West - GENERAL
Religious Authority: Yusuf Saanei
Website URL: http://saanei.org/
Fatwa Question or Essay Title: A Muslim's Assimilation [in behavior and cultural norms] to Non-Muslims:
[Question: Recently, some of the youth are using the fashion and hairstyles that are inspired from European and [other] non-Muslim countries. In your view, what is the status of using such outfit, noting that this is an example for "assimilation to non-Muslims*"?]

Answer: This is prohibited if it is equivalent to promoting the culture of those who oppose and fight Islam. * Assimilation to non-Muslims is considered prohibited in Islam.
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Stephen Schwartz
06:36 PM on 10/14/2011
The fatwa you cited is not by Ayatollah Ali Sistani, who is Iraqi. It is by Grand Ayatollah Yusuf Saanei, who is Iranian. Saanei is the leading cleric supporting the Iranian opposition against Ahmadinejad and Khamenei. He has issued fatwas against Iran developing a nuclear bomb, against suicide terrorism, for the equality of women, for recognizing that People of the Book will be rewarded in heaven and are not to be considered "najis" or "unclean," and has called for discussion of dismantling of the clerical state. The fatwa you cite is very narrow and seems to apply only to the promotion of cultural phenomena specifically opposed to Islam. I don't what that would comprise; perhaps playing video games that depict the killing of Muslims. My group supports the traditional Islamic guidance, dating to the time of Muhammad, that Muslims living in non-Muslim countries must obey the laws of the countries to which they emigrate. Loyal integration -- obedience to law -- is not the same as cultural assimilation. In the UK, as well as in the U.S., we see Muslim youth "assimilating" gangsta rap and similar social pathologies. The U.S. has always recognized the right of minorities to maintain their own cultural and religious identities, e.g. the Amish, certain Orthodox Jews, etc. do not "assimilate." That is what we stand for: the right of Muslims to maintain their own cultural habits so long as they do not violate American law.
11:38 PM on 11/14/2011
Have you had a chance to look at the videos on YouTube of Koroubi debating with Ahmadinejad on national TV in Iran? It's excellent stuff and it blows away these neo-con assertions of Iranian religion being nothing but lunatics and liars. To see Koroubi literally call Ahmadinejad a "smart a**" is quite something!

I have to say though, when I saw a video of Khamenei reciting the Ashura recollect of the death of Ali I was moved to see how similar it all was to the Good Friday service we Catholics have. Shia-ism does hold a great many parallels with Catholicism with regard to penance and memorialisation and to see Khamenei in tears just allowed me to peek behind the viciousness of his public, political life. I grew up with members of the Shah's court among my family and so I have enough Persian to follow what he was saying.

The human in me looked past Khamenei's crimes for that moment.
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Stephen Schwartz
01:11 AM on 10/15/2011
I tried to submit this comment earlier. The fatwa you note is not by Ali Sistani, who is Iraqi, but by Grand Ayatollah Yusuf Saanei. Saanei is considered in the forefront of the reformists in Iran. He has denounced the creation of an Iranian nuclear weapon, called for equality of men and women, argued that People of the Book are rewarded in paradise, and proposed a dialogue on dismantling of the Iranian clerical state. He is the leading clerical authority supporting the opposition to Ahmadinejad and Khamenei. I do not know what his fatwa was intended to prohibit but suspect he had in mind a very narrow list of pop culture items, such as video games in which Muslims are "killed." Nevertheless, the U.S. has always recognized the right of such religious minorities as the Amish to live their lives in separation from others, so long as they obey American laws. If assimilation into the culture of non-Muslims were prohibited in Islam it would be impossible to explain why Iranian Islam and Turkish Islam are different from Arab Islam.
03:29 PM on 10/11/2011
I pray for the day when it is common knowledge that our God is the same God, by whatever name, the Great Spirit-Parent of all.

There is an appropriate song relevant to that wish, from which I use the term: "Great Spirit-Parent." It is called Why Fight Over a Name? And you can hear it at http://soundclick.com/share.cfm?id=9687461

I invite you to join The Coalition of Jews, Christians and Muslims for Peace, Freedom and Justice, at http://cjcmp.org
11:43 PM on 11/14/2011
Peace to you from the intellectual and ecumenical world of the Catholics!

The greatest element of Catholicism is its vast varieties of faith - Franciscan poverty, Dominican preachers, Jesuit scientists, Salvatorian journalists, and even the Opus Dei with their sense of "Divine Filiation". It's a colossal religion with a thousand angles and its mystics stretch back to the writing of the scriptures themselves.

I, like you, pray that (as Jesus said) "they may all be One".

I believe we're heading for that day regardless of the signs we see all around us. Anyone who loves peace is a Son of God, as Christ said at the Sermon on the Mount.

Pax tecum,

David.
01:12 PM on 10/11/2011
Dr Tahir-Ul-Qadri is the famous Sufi cleric who issued the fatwa about jihad. To know more about this Imam and the contributions of Sufism in Pakistan please read the links below.

Shaykh-ul-Islam’s Historical Contributions in the Field of Law

http://209.85.62.24/394/36/0/p352478/Shaykh_ul_Islam___s_Historical_Contributions_in_the_Field_of_Law___Minhaj_ul_Quran_International.htm

* Forced the Federal Sharia Court to reverse its decision and uphold Rajm as Hadd.

* Ahmadiyya were disallowed to use for them Islamic terminology and call their worship places as mosques.

* The Blasphemy Law protecting the esteemed station and reverence of the Holy Prophet was also passed for the first time in the history of Pakistan after Shaykh-ul-Islam presented his arguments to the court.

* presented his arguments to determine the quantum of punishment to be awarded to a person guilty of contempt of the finality of the Holy Prophet, He established, on evidence from the Quran and Sunna, that a person guilty of contempt of the finality of the Holy Prophet deserved death sentence and the punishment will be imposed as Hadd.

* Hundreds of un-Islamic clauses from the old civil and criminal laws of Pakistan, which had existed since the period of colonial rule, were amended according to Islamic principles upon the juristic recommendations of Shaykh-ul-Islam.
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Stephen Schwartz
01:33 PM on 10/11/2011
I am well aware of Minhaj ul-Quran and its retrograde activities in Pakistan and the UK. I and my group are totally opposed to them and combat their influence. The topic has nothing to do with that of my text, i.e. Sufism and Kabbalah. The comment is irrelevant and reveals the Islamophobic agenda of a tiny clique that considers itself in possession of a sole truth about Islam and abuses discussion groups like this. Some years ago I stopped writing to such groups because of these habits. I had the impression that the contributors to Huff Po operated to a higher standard. The idea that all Muslims and Sufis bear the burden for every fanatical excess in Islamic history or every deviant interpretation in current Islam is prejudicial. There is no other term for it, in my view. This latest experience has taught me that the situation in the West is much worse than even I imagined. You should take some time away from firing back polemics on line to examine my work and that of the Center for Islamic Pluralism. We are far, far ahead of you on these issues.
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sandalwood
songs of the shamans...
07:06 PM on 10/11/2011
The situation in the West?

I think its worthwhile to interject that the Barelvis in Pakistan have joined the Deoband in showering rose petals (literally) on Salman Taseer's killer, Qadri. Barelvis are of course the Sufis of Pakistan, and who are now rabid enough to demand that whatever they perceive as blasphemy should indeed result in the killing of the accused, extra-judicial or not.
06:00 AM on 10/12/2011
There are many religions each with many religious sects and as you know all sects claim to reflect the perfect spirit of religion. The US is under attack by radical Islam for having had bases on Islamic countries and supporting Israel.
The West is currently being changed by other type of Islamic sects ranging from Salafis to Sunnis to Shia and Sufis all claiming love and peace and trying to spread as much as possible. Among them is the Sufi Imam who issued the fatwa against violent Jihad whom when we check his background appears to be a strict radical himself with a total different attitude back in Pakistan. He is responsible for some of the strictest interpretations of scriptures.
The Funny part is that all sects condemn each other’s with different accusations. Take for example the Salafis attacking Sufis, Ahmadiyya and Bahaais. Not to mention Sunni Shia conflicts. We are also seeing Saudi money used to plant mosques all across the west.
Whom should we believe and trust? I am afraid none.
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Gurg
What goes around, comes around!
09:21 AM on 10/11/2011
Incredible! Mr. Schwartz writes something positive about two beautiful religions and their commonalities and he is being attacked by Islamophobes. The most amazing part is that most of the attackers are hindus. Why is there so much interested being paid to this article by the hindus?
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Damn Damien
Naturally!
07:24 PM on 10/11/2011
Probably because the Hindus were one of the worst victims of Islamic aggression in history. There are no Islamophobes here; stop being paranoid. Most are well informed debaters on a topic beyond your grasp. If you want to know why the comments went in this direction, read the initial comments by the author of the article and you'll see where it started.
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Stephen Schwartz
11:28 PM on 10/11/2011
A person who turns a discussion of Sufism and Kabbalah into a series of diatribes over Indian Islamic history is an Islamophobe. A person who turns a discussion of Sufism and Kabbalah into a rant against Jewish bankers is no different. I defended my beliefs. I made clear that I consider all the mainstream faiths today to be fundamentally monotheistic. I condemned Pharaonic, Carthaginian, Mesoamerican, and other human-sacrifice religions. That was all I did. You should stop twisting and squirming around things.
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Stephen Schwartz
12:21 AM on 10/12/2011
Also, the theory that all the mainstream religions today are essentially monotheist, including Hinduism, Buddhism, and Taoism, is based on extremely serious and respectable epigraphical research (i.e. using ancient inscriptions) by scholars who know languages I did not even know exist, but who are not cranks or "perennialists." Why else would Djaus-Piter in Sanskrit have a name so close to "Jupiter" in Latin, and why else would the latter be so easily assimilated into Christianity as "God the Father"? You are holding out for the view that certain major religions are polytheistic. I see recognition of a common monotheism as important for the conciliation of Islam and the other faiths.
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Goutham Vishy
10:50 AM on 10/12/2011
Nonsense, the author makes some blatantly false statements such 'without monotheism, the world would have been full of violence and vice' and you want the non-monotheists to just ignore this statement. The monothiesms make absurd claims such as ,having a direct line to GOD, calls idol-worship a sin, one religion proclaims itself to be the final religion,and that their GOD will judge everyone, including me, on some absurd 'judgment day' and you want to me fawn over these 'beautiful' religions???
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Stephen Schwartz
07:15 PM on 10/14/2011
My statement about monotheism was an opinion. Whether I am right or wrong is an opinion. I consider Hinduism to be a monotheistic religion, as do Hindus of my acquaintance. There was nothing in my article asking anybody to fawn over anything; only to consider elements common to Islam and Judaism. Your views are also opinions. Nobody said you had to "fawn over" anything but it is prejudicial to turn a discussion of Jews and Muslims into a series of rants about Indian Islamic history.
11:49 PM on 11/14/2011
I think you could do with reading some mystic writings yourself. The entire benefit of mysticism (of any form) is that it teaches you to move beyond tribe and race and personal envy and simply look into the eternal mirror and ask, "Am I loved by God for what I have become?"

No person of any religious faith can possibly claim to "know God" or even "be spiritual" if they do not have a basic sense of compassion and kindness. As a Catholic, my faith and my Church teach me and the other 1.4 Billion Catholics that "That which is true in any faith comes from God", in other words we seek to see God in all that breeds kindness or brotherhood in truth.

Ask yourself if it is necessary for you to feel angry all the time.
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season555
Allaah knows best
06:56 AM on 10/11/2011
Wow so much HATRED for Islam, and yet it is fastest growing religion in the world. GO FIGURE

Even here in the US were one can't turn on the TV without hearing some Islamophobe ( it is now even a word) putting in his 2 cents.

Always wondered why if Hinduism is the oldest religion, how come it has stayed in South Asia, even now with information traveling so fast around the world it is the still Indians and people of Indian ancestry who mostly follow it?
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Damn Damien
Naturally!
07:36 AM on 10/11/2011
How can this be difficult to understand? How many of these converts understand Islamic theology, jurisprudence and history? How many have actually read the Qur'an, let alone studied it? Islam welcomes everyone with open arms without informing them that if they changed their mind, they would lose their head.

Hindus don't go around trying to convert others. A Hindu, by definition, is someone with ancestry among South Asian peoples, and who has not converted to another religion.
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season555
Allaah knows best
08:46 AM on 10/11/2011
DD anyone who has ever read you comments knows you hate Islam. As I have mentioned before habibi (my beloved) I will ask Allah to open you heart .

as for Hindus not converting people to the religion does the caste system have something to do with it? Like the Jews, those in Hindu upper class think people are not good enough to be Hindus.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iCvuU6hoCdM
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Stephen Schwartz
01:58 PM on 10/11/2011
I have read Quran cover-to-cover in three languages 13 times -- each Ramadan since I became Muslim. I published a 250 page monograph on shariah agitation in Europe and the invention in the last 15 years of a form of "parallel shariah" as a bogus institution of Muslim rights in the West. I published two major books with a respectable publishing house on these topics. I am considered an enemy of radical Islam and am proud to be one. There are many examples in Islamic history of people who came from the People of the Book to Islam and then went back to their original faiths without "losing their heads." That may have been the case with Maimonides. The argument that those who come to Islam need to be threatened with death to keep them in the faith is a modern one, enunciated by Mawdudi, who died in the U.S. in 1979. Quran says abandoning Islam will be judged in the afterlife, not by people alive today. You are dealing in second-hand cliches.
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12:34 PM on 10/11/2011
Wow so much HATRED for Islam,
========

It depends on how one defines hatred of Islam.

As I understand the mainstream Sharia definition*, once an unbeliever has received dawa the unbeliever either converts, accepts dhimmi status if living in a Sharia society, or self identifies as a hater of Islam who must eventually be subdued by force.

*Koran 9:29

*o9.0 in http://www.shafiifiqh.com/maktabah/relianceoftraveller.pdf

What Sharia defines as hatred of Islam, others think of as a simple rejection of the invitation to join the religion. What Sharia defines as vilification of Islam, others consider to be ordinary criticism to which any ideology is subject. This aggressive and intolerant mindset, which you typify, is very unattractive.
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Stephen Schwartz
03:24 PM on 10/11/2011
Shafi'i fiqh is not "mainstream." It is one of four Sunni schools, by no means the most influential, mainly limited to Arab countries, Kurdistan, and the Indian Ocean and Southeast Asia. Generalizing from it is a mistake. No Muslim ever defined rejection of the invitation to join Islam as hatred of Islam. If that were true Quran would not refer to Jews and Christians as People of the Book. That should be obvious to anybody. Numerous Muslims criticize aggressive dawa because they recognize that people do not want to be preached to.
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wakeupyouall
12:24 AM on 10/11/2011
if you go back to Rumi and his beloved many of his teaching are also very buddhist. And in fact Rumi lived is afganistan which was a Buddhist center before islam came in and wiped it out. HIS BELOVED just appears out nowhere and give him these incredable beautiful poetic teachings.
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Stephen Schwartz
06:16 AM on 10/11/2011
I recall mentioning on this thread that I had visited a mausoleum in Central Asia with the world ALLAH in Arabic over one door and the Buddhist swastika over the other door. I was told this was because adherents of both religions visited the shrine. There is a Kazakh dhikr referring to "Thousands of saints of Turkestan" that Sufis there say refers to Zoroastrians, Nestorian Christians, and Buddhists as well as Muslims. The same dhikr refers to the "thirty saints of Otrar." Otrar is the place where the Muslim philosopher Al-Farabi was born and the ruler Emir Timur died. I have been there and it has been a desert ghost town since the visit of the Lamaist Dzhungars in the 17th century.

Obviously, the Khorasani Sufi tradition that produced Molavi was influenced by Buddhism and probably also by Taoism.
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Gurg
What goes around, comes around!
09:09 AM on 10/11/2011
He was actually born in Bactria, modern day Balkh. This is also where Zoroaster was born and in the old days, it was "a noble city and a great seat of learning." as explained by Marco Polo.
01:13 PM on 10/10/2011
Part 2, response to Schwartz' query about forced conversions:

Amir Subuktigin's Second Invasion of Hind

“The Sultan therefore sharpened the sword of intention [to remove] impurity and rejection of Islam. Relying upon the one God...he arrived with his troops in the country of Hind, and killed everyone who, on the part of Jaipal, came out to oppose him.

"The Amir marched out towards Lamghan, which is a city celebrated for its great strength and abounding in wealth. He conquered it and set fire to the places in its vicinity which were inhabited by infidels, and demolishing [p. 19] the idol-temples, he established Islam in them. He marched and captured other cities and killed the polluted wretches, destroying the idolatrous and gratifying the Musulmans. After wounding and killing beyond all measure, his hands and those of his friends became cold in counting the value of the plundered property..."

Tarikh Yamini, or Kitabu-l Yamini of Abu Nasr Muhammad ibn Muhammad al Jabbaru-l 'Utbi, scribes for the Muslim invaders into Central Asia and India.


In The History of India as Told by its own Historians.

http://www.infinityfoundation.com/mandala/h_es/h_es_futuhu_frameset.htm
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Goutham Vishy
02:49 PM on 10/10/2011
but they were doing the right thing, cant you see?? They were bringing all the idol-worshiping sinners onto the right and best path of Islam, and instead of showing gratitude you are complaining?? They have God's personally dictated words in their book, what did the idol-worshipers have??
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HUFFPOST BLOGGER
Stephen Schwartz
03:43 PM on 10/10/2011
Note 1:

I wrote a text about Jews and Muslims and I object to the discussion of it having been hijacked by people obsessed with unsettled historical issues in India as a pretext for Islamophobic agitation.

I object to people with pretensions to what seem New Age enlightenment lending themselves to Islamophobia.

I note that kodimirpal, another poster on this site, has commented further down:

"As you point out wrongs have been committed by the followers of all religions. However such wrongs are not approved by the laws of God Almighty.

"What do people say about the following

"The Brahmins performed a great Puja and earnestly prayed Lord Shiva to stop the progress of Jainism. Accordingl­­­y Adi Shankarach­­­arya was born.

"He was the arch foe of Buddhism and the principal architect of its downfall in India (Author: Pande: He is a Hindu of Hindus: 1994: p. 255).

"Adi Shankara, along with Madhva and Ramanuja violently revived Hinduism.

"The historians like Vincent Smith suggested that it was due to Adi Sankaracha­­­rya there was decline of Buddhism in India.

"Nalanda was routed and the library there was burned and thousands of Buddha viharas were destroyed subsequent­­­ly by the Hindus.

"Shashanka was the Shaivite Brahmin king of Bengal.

"He was manipulate­­­d by the Brahmins to become a ferocious oppressor of the Buddhists.

"He had destroyed the Bodhi tree of Bodh Gaya and ordered the mass destructio­­­n of all Buddhist images and monasterie­­­s in his kingdom.

[Continued in next note]
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HUFFPOST BLOGGER
Stephen Schwartz
03:48 PM on 10/10/2011
Note 2:

Continuing from kodimirpal:

"Are these lies or part of Hindu history of persecutio­­n of rebellious Buddha against the apartheid Caste system that has scriptural approval and the dalits of India even today can not drink coffee in shops from the same cups as used by the upper caste."

I brought up the caste system and its injustices several times and none of the Hinduphiles in these threads responded.

I therefore conclude that further participation by me in this thread is wasted. I will add three further comments and then have other matters to attend to, involving neo-fundamentalism in Turkey and its complicity in the persecution of Sufis.

First, it is absurd and dissonant to, as so many do, that Sufism was derived from Hinduism and, at the same time, that Hindus were forcibly converted en masse to Islam. Either the Muslims respected Hindu wisdom or they didn't, but the question cannot be posed in a linear, ahistorical fashion.

Second, Hindu intellectuals tell me that there is a whole genre of Islamophobic pseudo-history in India today that is considered disreputable. I will find this out for myself.

Third to come and then selams to all of good heart.
12:59 PM on 10/10/2011
Stephen Schwartz responded to Sandalwood:
"What history is there of millions of forced conversion­s In Islam? Compulsion in religion is barred by Quran. And I mean history, not mythified, malicious gossip."

part 1

http://www.infinityfoundation.com/mandala/h_es/h_es_futuhu_frameset.htm

Written by the scribes that accompanied Arab invasions eastwards -
Tarikh Yamini, or Kitabu-l Yamini of Abu Nasr Muhammad ibn Muhammad al Jabbaru-l 'Utbi. 
In The History of India as Told by its own Historians. The Posthumous Papers of the Late Sir H. M. Elliot. 1st ed. 1867. 2nd ed.,1956, vol. 1, pp. 12-47.

Excerpts deal with the numerous raids of Amir Subuktigin of Ghazni (in modern Afghanistan) and his son and successor, Sultan Mahmud. Amir Subuktigin made his first of many raids into India in 376 H. (986-87 CE), and his son Mahmud, After succeeding his father to throne of Ghaznî, in 997 CE, [Mahmud] continued his father's policy, conduct[ing] many more raids until his death in 1030 CE. His numerous incursions into India were to capture spoil in material wealth, slaves and livestock.

He is portrayed as a zealous Muslim eager to destroy "idol temples" [as] justification for pillage, [which] contravened the earlier Arab policy of granting Hindus and Buddhists dhimmi status... His incessant raiding over the course of almost thirty years, however, clearly destabilized Northern India and paved the way for the Muhammad Ghûrî's invasion of northern India in 1175 CE...
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HUFFPOST BLOGGER
Stephen Schwartz
01:45 PM on 10/10/2011
I am well aware of the argument about the supposed destruction of Hindu India by the Muslims. Strangely enough, Hinduism survived quite well and remains the dominant religion in the country. I therefore conclude empirically that the historical narrative is grossly exaggerated. But I will investigate it for myself and make up my own mind. It reminds me a bit of the Serbian argument that their "great" culture was devastated by the Muslims, ignoring that they -- like the Greeks, Romanians, and Bulgarians -- never became Muslims in their majority, and that Christian Orthodoxy remains the dominant religion in their country today. History and chauvinist fairy tales are two different things.
02:09 PM on 10/10/2011
History and chauvinist fairy tales are two different things.
=======

In this case, the references I have provided are historical documents translated from Arabic and Persian, written by scribes in the employ of Muslim invaders, at the time of, or shortly after specific events.

Buddhism, a then-widely extant cousin of Hinduism, did not survive the Islamic onslaught, due perhaps to its highly visible monkhood and monastaries. In Hinduism, individual families and yes, caste and the village system of governance, carried the lineage.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
sandalwood
songs of the shamans...
04:40 PM on 10/10/2011
You yourself review history books etc. being used in Muslim majority countries, and have admitted their chauvinist, fairy tale nature. So it is the case that lot of history is not taught. I am glad that you will yourself look into the sources brought out here on this blog and see for yourself. I am satisfied with your statement that you will do that.

You have made some statements which have been challenged, which is different than your blog being 'hijacked'. This portion of the comments now has to do with you calling historical sources, references, information as fairy tales. You have moved from 'cliche' to 'fairy tales' now. Please have a study of the materials yourself and write a blog on that, if you wish. I will look forward to that.

Its fine to bring up caste based discrimination, and which has been and still is an issue in Hindu society. No one here is calling that 'fairy tales', that's one big difference between what your approach has been to unsavory aspects of history being brought up and the various commenters here.
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HUFFPOST BLOGGER
Stephen Schwartz
02:16 AM on 10/15/2011
You yourself state here that the Ghaznawi invasions "contravened the earlier Arab policy." It was not an Arab policy, but a Persian policy. The Arabs had little contact with Hindus or Buddhists except through the chronicles of travellers.