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The coverage from the LA Times on the CA Prop 8 debate is, well, like a debate. Take this, for example, inexplicably stuck in the Books section:
As of Friday, supporters of Proposition 8 had raised $27.5 million, with about 19% of the money coming from outside California. Opponents have raised $31.2 million, with 34% of the money coming from outside the state.Although many initiatives are largely funded by parties with an economic interest in them, Proposition 8 contributors by and large have nothing to gain financially from the measure's passage or defeat.
Many donors, like Havranek, cite religious beliefs, and Mormons have emerged as the largest source of money to the Yes-on-8 effort, contributing about 40% of its war chest, according to the campaign. Church leaders have urged members to contribute.
Primary contributors to the opposition have included celebrities, liberal groups including the American Civil Liberties Union of Northern California, public employee unions and gay philanthropists.
The Salt Lake Tribune does a much better job, delving into the dynamics of the Mormon Church and its deep investment into changing existing California law:
The LDS Church's campaign to pass Proposition 8 represents its most vigorous and widespread political involvement since the late 1970s, when it helped defeat the Equal Rights Amendment. It even departs from earlier efforts on behalf of traditional marriage, in which members felt more free to decide their level of involvement.
This time, LDS leaders have tapped every resource, including the church's built-in phone trees, e-mail lists and members' willingness to volunteer and donate money. Many California members consider it a directive from God and have pressured others to participate. Some leaders and members see it as a test of faith and loyalty.Those who disagree with the campaign say they feel unwelcome in wards that have divided along political lines. Some are avoiding services until after the election; others have reluctantly resigned. Even some who favor the ballot measure are troubled by their church's zeal in the matter.
. . . The LDS First Presidency announced its support for Proposition 8 in a letter read in every Mormon congregation. Since then, California LDS leaders have prompted members to sign up volunteers, raise money, pass out brochures produced by outsiders and distribute lawn signs and bumper stickers. Bishops have devoted whole Sunday school classes and the weekly Relief Society and priesthood meetings to outlining arguments against same-sex marriage. Some have pointedly asked members for hefty financial donations, based on tithing. Others have even asked members to stand or raise their hands to publicly indicate their support.
Gary Lawrence, writing in the online Meridian Magazine, compared opponents of Proposition 8 to those who sided with Lucifer against Jesus in the pre-mortal existence. Others have questioned such members' faith and religious commitment, accusing them of undermining the prophet.
. . . It's especially painful for Mormon gays.
"How is the church going to minister to them when such operations are guaranteed to alienate them and their families?" Thurston asked. "Most of the gay members were orthodox Latter-day Saints in their teens and many went on missions. But eventually they found there was no place in the church for them and they went elsewhere."
From his base in Tupelo, Miss., Tim Wildmon, president of the American Family Assn., said his group gave $500,000 to the Yes-on-8 campaign for moral reasons."We believe in the Bible, and the Bible teaches that marriage is between one man and one woman," he said. "That is how the human race continues."
Wildmon said he fears that if the initiative doesn't pass, children will be taught about same-sex marriage in schools. And he worries that other things might follow.
As a side note, Wildmon's organization, American Family Association or AFA, announced a boycott of Hallmark Cards for their decision to sell same-sex wedding cards, so this is nothing new for them.
The Wall Street Journal reports on the increasingly fervent Mormon campaign:
The top leadership of the Mormon Church, known as the First Presidency, issued a letter in June calling on Mormons to "do all you can" to support Proposition 8.
Mormon donors said they weren't coerced. "Nobody twisted my arm," said Richard Piquet, a Southern California accountant who gave $25,000 in support of Proposition 8. He said Mormon Church leaders called donating "a matter of personal conscience." Some Mormons who declined to donate said their local church leaders had made highly charged appeals, such as saying that their souls would be in jeopardy if they didn't give. Church spokesmen said any such incident wouldn't reflect Mormon Church policy.. . . The battle has drawn in money from around the country. The Knights of Columbus, a Roman Catholic group, has given more than $1.25 million to support Proposition 8. Focus on the Family, a nonprofit organization composed mainly of evangelical Protestants, has given more than $400,000. The Yes on 8 campaign has received "more proportionally from the Latter-day Saints Church than from any other faith," said Mr. Schubert, 35% to 40% of the total.
The Mormon Church encouraged its members to send their donations to a separate post-office box set up by a church member, said Messrs. Schubert and L. Whitney Clayton, a senior Mormon Church official involved in the campaign. Mr. Clayton said the church didn't keep track of how much individual Mormons donated, just the cumulative total. He said members bundled the donations and forwarded them to the campaign.
A Web site run by individual Mormons, Mormonsfor8.com, has tracked all donations to the Yes on 8 campaign of $1,000 or more listed on the California secretary of state's Web site. The site's founder, Nadine Hansen, said they have identified more than $5.3 million given by Mormons but believe that donations from church members may account for far more than 40% of the total raised.
Sometimes the enemy of my enemy isn't my friend. From the WSJ article:
The prominence of Mormon donors in the Proposition 8 fight has also led to alliances with evangelical Protestant groups and other Christian religions, some of which have deep theological differences with Mormons.Jim Garlow, pastor of the evangelical Protestant Skyline Church near San Diego and a leading supporter of Proposition 8, said, "I would not, in all candor, have been meeting them or talking with them had it not been for" the marriage campaign. Rev. Garlow said he had developed a "friendship" with the Mormons he met, although he feels the theological differences remain "unbridgeable."
But he noted how Roman Catholics and evangelical Protestants have formed tight bonds through their joint work against abortion, and he said a similar process might occur with Mormons.
Asked if working on Proposition 8 might improve the standing of Mormons in the eyes of evangelicals, Mr. Whitney said, "That's just not been on our radar."
And where is the traditional media in reporting this? The LATimes reports this like an ordinary bond initiative: Some say Yes, some Say No. Sad, that the newspaper of record in So. California doesn't seem to realize the importance of Prop. 8.
One thing they do point out is the presence of Erik Prince in this particular fight. Remember him? The odious CEO of Blackwater Worldwide, responsible for deaths and atrocities in Iraq:
Another major proponent is Elsa Prince, a contributor to Republican causes and candidates including McCain. Prince, of Holland, Mich., gave $450,000 to support Proposition 8. She's the mother of Erik Prince, founder of Blackwater Worldwide, the private firm that provides security in Iraq.Mother and son sit on the board of a family foundation that donated $8 million in 2006-07 to Christian groups involved in the Yes-on-8 effort, including $300,000 to Focus on the Family, on whose board she sits. Focus on the Family gave $450,000 to Proposition 8 and $1.35 million to the 22 same-sex marriage ban campaigns in 2004 and 2006.
Bastards.
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As a Mormon, it is, ironically, the views I was taught as a small child in the church that have led me to my opposition to Proposition 8. You're talking about a religion and a state that polls Republican by 2-1 and 3-1 margins over everyone else, and the largest faction of the remaining 1 is Libertarians. I was raised with respect for all races and with other children of all races. I was also raised with a respect for people's right to choose their actions. While it has oft been pointed out in my church that we can choose our actions, but not their consequences, how exactly would the consequences of choosing a poor mate differ between gay and straight couples? Messy divorces, enormous attorney fees, and custody battles. Tell me which partnership I'm talking about. Can't? Well, neither can I. In many states, even those who do not have same-sex marriage laws or court decisions, gay couples can adopt, and in the case of lesbians, one in the couple can give birth through artificial means. No child? Try telling that to someone whose pets are like children to them, said pets getting involved in the bitter divorce.
As far as polyamory, as long as no fraud, abuse, or coercion is involved, I'm not against it in a legal sense. I don't understand how one man can handle more than one woman, but look at spouses of both genders who cheat on their partners.
I think it's quite relevant to point out that Mormon church is the #1 funder behind supporting this Proposition. I mean, come on, that's a whole lot of money. If any church I belonged to chose to put money into legalizing discrimination rather than, I don't know, feeding people, I'd quit in a millisecond. And if I have kids, Pegasys9, they will learn that people of any sex can love people of any sex because I will teach them that myself, because they will be around my friends who have same-sex partners, and maybe even because it will taught in schools. It's just reality, whether you like it or not.
As far as cults go, I in no way intend to defend the Mormon church for raising money for discrimination, but some people would describe any religion as a cult:
From Dictionary.com
1: formal religious veneration : worship
2: a system of religious beliefs and ritual ; also : its body of adherents
3: a religion regarded as unorthodox or spurious ; also : its body of adherents...
I actually live across from a Church of the Latter Day Saints in a neighborhood with a rather large population of LGBQ people. I've always wondered what goes on in there and who goes there, but not so much that I've actually entered...
Of course "people of any sex can love people of any sex." That's not the issue. People of any sex can love dogs too, but that does not mean marriage should include that. BTW, I'm not trying to call homosexuals dogs, they are as much human as anyone. The issue is the definition of marriage. Some want to redefine the concept, the concept that has been around for centuries and has worked pretty well overall as the basic structure of society. The disintegration of the family is at the center of so many of the problems society faces today, and further dismantling it will only make things worse. Giving homosexual couples the same legal rights as married couples makes sense and seems fair, but redefining the basic family structure of society, and claiming that "it won't effect anyone else," is wildly dangerous, and could have huge, long lasting repercussions. We shouldn't gamble with the American society just to accommodate the preferences of a small group.
You say "We shoulndn't gamble with the American society just to accommodate the preferences of a small group." I wonder if you were to have said that to Abe Lincoln, or Susan B. Anthony, of Dr King how things would have turned out. We do not want better rights than you, all we want EQUALITY. You can say all you want to, it really does not matter. You can vote against us all if you wish, it is your right, but you will not stop, nor change us from who we are.
I SHALL STAND TALL AGAINST THE STORM, AND THOUGH IT MAY TAKE MY LIFE, I WILL LEAVE MY FOOTPRINTS BEHIND, TO LET THE STORM KNOW THAT I WAS HERE AND I STOOD AGAINST IT!
Discrimination
–noun 1. an act or instance of discriminating.
2. treatment or consideration of, or making a distinction in favor of or against, a person or thing based on the group, class, or category to which that person or thing belongs rather than on individual merit: racial and religious intolerance and discrimination.
3. the power of making fine distinctions; discriminating judgment: She chose the colors with great discrimination.
4. Archaic. something that serves to differentiate.
Gay rights activists have placed themselves in a position to feel discriminated. It has nothing to do with denying rights. It's about protecting the concept of marriage and family. If there is a right missing, ask for it and I'll vote for it. Marriage is a religious institution recognized and adopted by governments around the world who "have recognized and affirmed marriage as an essential institution in preserving social stability and perpetuating life itself.".
Gays have been allowed to believe and do as they please...and now with this redefining of marriage, churches will NOT be allowed to believe and do what they please.
The California Safe Schools Coalition asserts that children will be taught in class about homosexuality and gender identity (read confusion). Please note that many of the members of the California Safe Schools Coalition are also supporters of the "No on Prop. 8" campaign, including the California Teachers Association, the ACLU (which actually argued in the Massachusetts case that the court should require the teaching of same-sex marriage in schools) and numerous other gay and lesbian organizations.
Interestingly, according to the coalition's Web site, the Capistrano Unified School District, Escondido Union High School District, Monterey Unified Peninsula School District, Palm Springs Unified School District, San Francisco Unified School District and the Ventura County Office of Education are all members of this coalition.
According to the coalition's Question and Answer Guide on California's Parental Opt-out Statutes, the coalition asserts that parents do not have the right to notice about and to opt their children out of diversity education programs that include discussions of sexual orientation or other controversial topics.
Just to clarify, the Church itself hasn't given any cash to the campaign. In fact I just read that they made their first contribution the other day: $2000 worth of plane tickets. All this Mormon money comes from regular old members.
Why must the author use the Mormon church to attack this proposition? I see this as a last minute attempt to tear down this proposition by alligning it with the Mormon Church. Shall we dig into the personal lives of those who disagree with this propositon? Or would focusing on the gay lifestyle make people too uncomfortable?
Admittedly the Mormon church is out of the mainstream of Christianity, but instead of focusing on the differences, shouldn't we focus on the similarities? Shouldn't our belief in God and Jesus be the basis for what is and isn't a Christian? Instead we have articles like this that attempt to drive a wedge between people and away from this proposition at the eleventh hour.
I find this article a last minute attempt to smear the Proposition by connecting it with the LDS Church. The author should be ashamed. Who cares who donated what? If the proposition will protect our children from the gay agenda immersing itself in our schools, I'm for it.
It's funny, I NEVER see these kinds of articles that would connect the no campaign to it's less than stellar backers. Why don't you tell us about the personal lives of those who are trying to stop this measure? Or would that bring to light aspects of the gay culture you wish to remain hidden?
Of the two parties, I'll take the religious folks everytime. If this is America, shouldn't we have a say in what our children are and are not taught?
The family of Erik Prince has long been involved in the far-right culture wars business, although lately most attention lavished on the Princes has focused on Erik's mercenary paramilitary endeavors which have been so unhelpful and costly in every way overseas. Hardly surprising to see their ugliness pop up on this issue.
But I take exception to your faulting of Christian rightists for describing Mormons as 'cultists'. The Mormons incorporate the Bible into their own peculiar belief system, but add such details as: Jesus visiting the New World hundreds of years after His crucifixion, American Indians being the 'lost tribes' of Israelites, and the location of the Garden of Eden in the mid-West of the US. None of these beliefs are part of any other strain of Christianity of which I am aware, nor does the adoption of these beliefs appear to be on the agenda of any other denomination of Christians. As a status of 'heretic' is dispensed by Catholics only, I'm thinking 'cultist' is the nearest equivalent that other Christians can apply to folks who hold such beliefs. As an atheist, by the way, I have no dog or God in this fight.
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