John Adams: God Damn America
As I alternate between reruns of Jeremiah Wrights "God Damn America" tirade and first-runs of the HBO's John Adams series, I see a surprising connection. Like many of the Revolutionary era, Adams believed that if we weren't careful, God would damn us or at least withdraw his support.
At some points during the war, Adams feared that the cause would fail because he saw too much greed and commercialism in the colonies. "I have seen all my life such selfishness and littleness even in New England, that I sometimes tremble to think that, although we are engaged in the best cause that ever employed the human heart, yet the prospect of success is doubtful not for want of power or wisdom but of virtue." During the revolution, Adams -- evoking the manner of his Puritan ancestors -- told his friend Benjamin Rush that the colonials would only have a chance of winning, "if we fear God and repent our sins." He even speculated that God might intend for America to be defeated so that its "vicious and luxurious and effeminate appetites, passion and habits" would be cleansed, laying the foundation for a more-deserved victory in the future.
Adams wasn't alone in seeing the events on the ground as a reflection -- positive and negative -- of God's assessment. One minister ascribed the Continental Army's difficulties to the presence of slavery. Noting the brutal winter, the poor crops, the loss of cattle, and the seemingly imminent collapse of the army, a Quaker farmer speculated that it was part of a divinely-ordained set of plagues. When on July 20, 1775 the Continental Congress called for a day of prayer, it was accompanied by a call for fasting, self-reflection and a unified effort to "unfeignedly confess and deplore our many sins."
I don't mean this as a defense of Jeremiah Wright (or John Adams). It's just a reminder that there's a long tradition among preachers and politicians of asserting that if God is to bless us when we're good, He may damn us when we're bad.
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Hey everyone! CNN's Roland Martin is starting a blog to have people look at Rev. Wright's sermon's in full context... What we need to do is get as many people to read this as possible..
http://ac3
this is the site... please go there and read it.
Better yet, turn off CNN! There's very little there that passes for anything like diligent journalism or thoughtful commentary. Remember that advice to TV news to "tart it up and dumb it down?" Well, CNN obviously took it to heart, along with most news organizations . Spend your time with the BBC and PBS and you'll be a lot better informed.
good... but rednecks don't give a shit. they've already made up their mind. and yes... they do all share one mind... it's all connected to rush limbaugh.
Who are these newscasters to question the patriotism of a US Senator? In doing so, they question the patriotism of an entire state. I say publicly crucify these arbiters of sedition and slander.
I think the biggest problem we have in this country is the incompetent, opinionated media - left and right! They are disrespectful to our President(s) (current and past) and our other elected officials. On the other hand, our elected officials are also disrespectful to each other. We all need to learn to disgree, respectful
http://www
HBO has done a sensational job with its John Adams series, based on the two episodes I have seen so far. Be sure to watch the "behind the scenes" segment where they describe how the amazing visual portrayal of 18th century America (and points abroad) was accomplished.
In terms of the actual content, one of the most striking things was to be reminded of the immense effort it took to bring together 13 disparate colonies into a union. Perhaps that union was not perfect, but it was still an incredible achievement. It is so sad that we seem to have descended into a people who are more captivated with the mundane - who slept with who, who is gay, whose religious organization is more pure - than the truly important issues of social justice, America's role in the world and so forth. Maybe the relevant phrase is neither "God Bless America "or "God Damn America," but "God Help America."
Here, here. God Help America! One other thing, the founders were just as afraid of the "mob" (all of us collectively or in groups) as they were of the king. Someone told me the other day, "If the majority want something from the government, that should be what government should do." Oh, really? What if one of these days the "mob" says (or votes) to disallow voting by women... or blacks... or gays... or ANYONE? We are not a pure DEMOCRACY.
The irony, of course, is that this viewpoint is what got us into Iraq, and will probably keep us there until cats evolve into sentient beings and take over the world.
But our Founders also built in a contingency for that as well; it's what impeachment is supposed to be about. Too bad that some of our representatives have taken that off the table too.
As a result, getting our representative democracy to heed the will of the people is becoming increasingly difficult.
from another liberal lady: I agree with you. May God help America. I understand what the reverend was saying. I believe we all do. We just want to shout loud to cover up the truth of his words. I agree with Michelle Obama also. I have traveled about the world extensively. I used to be soo proud of being an American. Lately....
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Mr Waldman: A thought-provoking post....!
This tendency to ascribe things to God's punishment is hardly an American trait. Throughout most of human history, I think most civilizations have had some variation on the theme "if we make the god or gods or goddesses happy, we have lots to eat and make lots of babies; if we displease them, we starve and die horrible deaths."
I do think there are degrees of difference. A Continental officer, watching his men struggle for survival in 1777, might wonder if this is God's punishment for breaking away from the mother country a year before. It's a logical leap. It's when we draw line of thought out over generations or across cultures that I think we run into problems. God did not smite New Orleans because there are gay people living in San Francisco; He did not allow people to fly planes into buildings in 2001 because we bombed Hiroshima in 1945. These are separate things, separate events, it's like comparing apples with....pe
As a country, we will always make mistakes, and those mistakes will often reverberate for decades. Iraq War -- huge mistake. Is it a sin? Should we all be held to account for the actions of a relatively small group of people? I think most of us would say no.
That, to me, this is the key question: how can you expiate a sin you didn't commit? I have personally never committed a single act of violence against another human being of any race or nationality; my family moved to America in 1630 and, as far as I can tell, never owned another human being or participated in genocide against Native Americans. To say that I am forever guilty of oppression because of the color of my skin or my ethnic background makes no more sense that to say that an a person of African descent is forever a victim of history. It's no way for any of us to move forward through life.
I realize that the snippets of Rev. Wright's sermons that have been broadcast over these past few days are not his whole message, and from what I have read of him, he is a good and decent man. But those clips, sadly, do open up wounds, because it describes an America I think a lot of us don't want live in....wher
Great post. Thank you!
there can be an expiration date. as soon as the "majority" (aka rednecks aka bush's base-types) stop gloating about this is "our" country... love it (and only and always speak english) or leave it.
that feat will require an amazing mass-shift in consciousness.
god doesnt give a shit about america either way. its what we do or dont do that makes america. the problem with wright and his words and attitude , that you miss, is that he uses words clearly to divide and uses the divide to prop his own standing in the community. that is what is disgusting.
I'm concerned that Obama even HAS a "religious advisory committee" What has happened to the separation of church and state here?
I know this country wasn't founded on "in god we trust". That was put on our money in the 50's. I believe in god, but not in god in politics.
Yahweh can go back to the desert for all I care. I hope HE does! If we didn't have this intolerance which came from Him and and his constantly revised little black book ( to suit the political elite) this conversation wouldn't have to happen and we could all breathe easier. I am more afraid, actually, of the American Imams than I was ever afraid of somebody else's.
Rev. Wright hurt Obama. Who is Wright to judge? "Judge Not, lest ye be judged". ring a bell? I'm of the opinion that I can't know what the god of my understanding is trying to teach me on my path to it. I can only be humble and accept the lessons and learn from them. That is ALL I can do as a mere human being. If I didn't believe that, I couldn't believe in god. Because there is too much suffering, and I MUST trust god. I figure most of MY troubles I've brought upon myself and until I change myself, I will be doomed to repeat them.
You know what they say: Religion is for people who are afraid of going to hell, spirituality is for people who've BEEN there! Perhaps we could get a little more spiritual and stop whipping out that little black, bronze age book to tell us how to live today. I suspect we're going to have to try.
Christianity obviously is not working.
Not just Christianity. Islam and other religions, too. We all need to bring out the best in our religions. Religion DOES do many good things, too, so just throwing religion away would not be the answer. Responsible religion can be part of the solution. Responsible behavior can be part of the solution. Responsible leaders can be part of the solution. We have to WORK AT THIS folks! I am ready to WORK... please join me.
I don't think religion has to be part of the answer. It mostly teaches us to go against our natural instincts and we wind up twisted all to hell and back.
Spirituality is the belief that ALL life is sacred. that we are all part of the life and it humbles us. What is wrong with that????
It isn't "religion" doing good things. It's the people who practice the religion doing the good things. I believe these people would do good things regardless of the specifics of their religion. The assertion that religion holds a monopoly on "goodness" is part of what makes religion corrupt and abusive. People go to church for the sense of belonging to a community. Yet they are told they must believe in illogical superstitions to belong.
It's not so much a need to throw away religion as it is a need to throw away the absurdity of the doctrine.
You can take religion out of government, but you can't take religion away from the person. Most people have some type of spirituality, whether they admit it or not. And their actions are rooted in that spirituality. Just because they may not make a public announcement, it's there. We need to judge a person for what they have presented to us--we can speculate and anticipate what we think they may do based on a preconceived notion that we have of what those "religious types" may do, but that would doom us to a paranoid existence. Possibly that is what we are witnessing right now--fear based paranoia that is overtaking common sense.
Of course, we could solve the majority of these discussions and questions by simply scaling down government. The people that we put in office should not have as much power as they currently have. Government should not have the amount of influence over our lives that it currently has. Problem solved...d
"I'm concerned that Obama even HAS a "religious advisory committee" What has happened to the separation of church and state here?"
The "conservatives" have made overt religious soapboxing necessary, with all their howling about "Morality" and "Family Values" and "Godliness". The camel's nose got under the tent with Jimmy Carter - a relatively "conservative" Democrat! - in 1976, and it's only gotten exponentially worse since as each party tried to play the "God card" faster than the other.
Please Huffington, find a place for this video on your blog! I think the people need to see this. It is sad that for the sole purpose of ratings the media will only give us half of the story. It is important that we watch the Pastor Wright in its entirety and understand the context inwhich he was preaching. If the MSM had done this in the first place, the man would not be going into retirement with negative light shining upon him. Please find a place to post this, he deserves that much.
http://you
Thanks and God bless!
Thank you for that link In the Bible God often sends his prophets to rail against Israel for Israels sins and shortcomings. The people would kill the prophets for their criticism. In this country we enshrined freedom of religion and freedom of speech. Now If one criticizes what America is doing one is vilified for blaming America. Apparently a connection to someone who criticizes some conduct by America disqualifies you from office. How can America ever correct a mistake or error if this is the situation. It is just like someone who refuses to consider the possibility that he or she is wrong and insists it must be someone else is in error. Jesus said look first at the beam in your own eye before you blame your brother for the speck in his. We and I mean in particular the "Right" wing insist on doing the opposite of what Jesus taught. We will lose our ability to self correct if we continue with this approach of refusing to ever consider that we may be wrong.
I'm glad, Steven, that you bring up the notion of God and the history of John Adams. It would seem like divine justice to have eight years of Bush be countered by eight years of Obama. And, having replayed the HBO John Adams film myself, I agree, he seems to have had a very moral concept of what could be potentially damaging for America.
I hope Obama can talk Al Gore to be his vice-presidential running mate. Then we could have possibly sixteen years to balance us back at least to the point where Bill Clinton promised us that "there isn't anything wrong with America that can't be cured by what's right with America."
Obama-Gore (Webb, Richardson, McKaskill, Nepolitano, Edwards) '08
Reality gets confused by ignorance sometimes.
The bible indicates to many that "stars falling from heaven" is a signal that Jesus is coming - so in 1833 - instead of Paul Revere riding around yelling, "the British are coming" (or maybe just breathing really hard?) the folks were screaming "Jesus is coming" (can't touch this).
Turns out it was just a spectacular Leonid meteor shower. A great event for astronomers - a bad day for the Armageddon crowd.
Why are we not talking about the 12 billion dollars a month our government is spending in Iraq?
Because we're putting it on a credit card. Raise taxes/impose taxes to cover the cost of the war and see how fast do we not only start talking about the 12 B, but start screaming about it!
good greif.
comparisons to JOHN ADAMS dont help.
the constant defense of wright by obama and supporters (like huffpo) are making it worse.
Well, here's some of the context of Wright's sermon:
“The government gives them the drugs, builds bigger prisons, passes a three-strike law and then wants us to sing ‘God Bless America.’ No, no, no, God damn America, that’s in the Bible for killing innocent people,” he said in a 2003 sermon. “God damn America for treating our citizens as less than human. God damn America for as long as she acts like she is God and she is supreme.”
In addition to damning America, he told his congregation on the Sunday after Sept. 11, 2001 that the United States had brought on al Qaeda’s attacks because of its own terrorism.
“We bombed Hiroshima, we bombed Nagasaki, and we nuked far more than the thousands in New York and the Pentagon, and we never batted an eye,” Rev. Wright said in a sermon on Sept. 16, 2001.
“We have supported state terrorism against the Palestinians and black South Africans, and now we are indignant because the stuff we have done overseas is now brought right back to our own front yards. America’s chickens are coming home to roost,” he told his congregation.
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For my $0.02, I think invoking Hiroshima and Nagasaki was wrong, had he been thinking, he would have invoked our misadventures in South and Central America, Iran, support for Middle East despots like the Saudis and saddam and the Shah and more would have been on the mark.
And I googled the drug thing and found a DOJ report denying involvement of the CIA, but admitting that perhaps there were a few suspicious events and persons that might give one the "wrong idea"
So I defend it in terms of this: we must hold the governement that acts in our name to account. That means pointing out when our government misbehaves in our name, condemning it, and, I suppose, if you're the preacher sort, asking God to damn it. But remember, condemning the actions of our government is clearly not the same as throwing our Constitution under the bus. Takes Republican "patriots" to do that.
Cheers
Amen
I have heard very few actually defend Wright. Even Obama stopped short of defending him, and distanced himself very well from the pastor's words.
I think the comparison to Adams, although I wouldn't have seen it without Mr. Waldman's post, is one of great perspective.
I fear we, liberals and conservatives alike, have become so sensitive about our country's place in the world; our moral standing, that we can't even have rational discussion or debate about how our actions define us.
What we believe, what we defend, what we stand up for, what we turn our backs on, what we tolerate and what we don't... it all adds up to who we are. The smallest things and the largest.
"Remember, democracy never last long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet that did not commit suicide."
- John Adams, Second President of the United States of America
The East India Company, the king's corporation, was chartered in 1600 to carry on the business of the throne, maintained its army, conducted its private wars, and eventually opened up the opium trade with China. By the time of our Constitution, there had already been one hundred years of corporate domination by the East Indian Company that forced cheap government subsidized tea on the colonists, leading inexorably to the explosion of the Boston Tea Party, the preface to the American Revolution.
"I hope we shall crush in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations which dare already challenge our government to a trial of strength, and bid defiance to the laws of this country," said, Thomas Jefferson but in McCulloch v. Maryland in 1819, Chief Justice John Marshall upheld the right of the federal government under its "implied powers" to form corporations for governmental or quasi-governmental purposes. And in 1886, as John Adams feared and had predicted, the American grand experiment in democracy suffered what would prove to be a fatal blow when in the now infamous case of Santa Clara v. Southern Pacific Railroad the United Sates Supreme Court ruled that the fictional person - the corporation - should have the same rights as a living person and was entitled to the same protections of the Fourteenth Amendment.
The purposes of dealing opium, raising armies, and creating a profit without having responsibility for crimes and murders allowed the corporations to own presidents and Congress itself without the duties of good citizenship imposed on regular persons.
We now see Blackwater as an "army of the king" and the other corporate activities of lobbying and oil exploration, security and investigation. Even the outside contractors in charge of Obama's passport.a
As a practical matter the fictional person has more rights than a natural one. Try deposing a corporation and see how many additional protections the corporation has that a real persons lacks.
Actually, the Supreme Court did NOT rule in "the now infamous Santa Clara case" that corporations had the same rights as living persons. They explicitly said in the preamble to the decision that they weren't going there even though it was the majority OPINION that it was so. (Weasel words, repeated out of context until everyone, including later members of the Supreme Court, just assumed that such a decision WAS made in 1886!)
The matter has never gotten the thorough revisiting that it urgently deserves.
I think Obama was much too harsh in his speech denouncing some of Reverend Wright's words. While there we factual errors in some cases, most of what Wright has said is the truth. It is just that many among us don't want to know or hear the truth.
Wright's words contradicted his own. He did the right thing.
Absolutely correct. However, for political expediency, he had to distance himself. Some people/many voters can't understand those words. Heck, the media doesn't even get it nor help with the understanding for the average/typical voter. Typical in the sense of not extraordinary, like Obama stated.
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You'll notice that this Rev. Wright controversy has squelched all speculation regarding whether or not Sen Obama's really a closet Muslim?
Yes, that was Fox's News favorite attack on Obama last week that he was a Muslim. Now they must limit themselves to saying he is unAmerican.
People who are bothered by the phrase are no different than the Muslims who protested the cartoons of their Prophet.
We have committed every resource on earth, and the life of every man, woman, and child who abides on the face of the earth, to the cause of Free Enterprise. Lees than two decades ago, we were set to destroy the world through a nuclear holocaust in order to preserve that religion. And upon little provocation, we are willing to do so today. Like other religious constructs, the principal goal of the national religion is to permit those in power to remain in power - to secure for those who are more able to take the opportunity to take more.
Although the ideal of free enterprise could, indeed, lend itself to the uplifting of the human condition, when it is practiced for profit alone, it becomes but a license for the powerful to further enslave the weak. 45 million Americans do not have health care, and the poverty rate for children is the highest among eighteen industrial nations. More than half of the children in poverty live in families in which one or both parents work. But the religion of Free Enterprise, as practiced, is intended not to produce freedom from poverty for its human supplicant
Freedom and free enterprise are not interchangeable terms. The American dream is vanishing.
Caan we see not see them - Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, and the others - waiving the Declaration of Independence in the face of King George III, crying that, as a self-evident truth, "all men are created equal"?
America was founded on slavery and prospered from the sweat and misery of black slaves for nearly two hundred years before the Civil War. And now do we think that we have purified the nation? What of the Tuskegee experiments where black people were intentionally injected with syphilis as an experiment? How about the black men who fought in WW II to return to segregated public facilities and where they had to sit in the back of the bus.
No, Rev. Wright is not so off base when it comes to the treatment of his own race, as stated by John Brown who echoed the sermons of the Puritans two centuries before.. Can we so soon forget the underground railroad begun in the 1780s under Quaker auspices
The past is done. The future is not.
Leave. Pack your bags and go. There are 6 and 1/2 billion people on this Earth and I guarantee you that at least 5 billion of them would trade places with you in a heartbeat. Go find your perfect country. Where should you start? The continent of Africa maybe. You want to talk about oppressing people and miserable lives? What's the child poverty rate there? How many people in Chad have medical coverage? How many people has the Dear Leader in North Korea executed for trying to escape his paradise? How many children are sold to perverts in the Philipines? We are not perfect, by any means, but, BUT, there's no place else on Earth I would rather have my children raised than here.
Child poverty in this country is caused 90% of the time by one factor. Poor, uneducated, unemployed, unmarried 15 and 16 year old dummies getting (intentionally) pregnant and giving birth to children that are born poor. Married couples who work, save and then have children, when they can better provide for their well-being are becoming a (very) small minority within the minority communities.
Poverty in Africa is directly related to the Triangle Slave Trade and European Colonialism. The slave trade removed talent and manpower from Africa and Colonialism squashed talent and manpower in Africa.
Black people weren't allowed to participate in Colonial government, then after liberation not enough black people had enough knowledge of the systems established by Colonial governments to keep them running correctly.
And your vast generalizations about "poor" people (intimating black people- it's obvious, althought you'll say "I didn't say black people") shows and proves there is obviously not enough dialog in theis country about race.
You know, "realwoman", the child poverty rate here, which was once the "richest country on earth", is 20%. And most of those children belong to the working poor. Learn your facts. And justifying our own neglect by pointing out the fact that others have it worse it inane. Others are serial killers, but it doesn't justify my killing one person.
Why should anyone leave when this country knows better and refuses to be true to its principles? Using the actions of other countries to justify the wrongs by "greatest country on earth" is hardly an excuse for asking citizens of the US to keep their mouths shut on where we are not doing our best. Are we going to bring ourselves down to the level of less progressive countries in the name of status quo? Or are we going to continue to strive for improving our country? I believe one of the poorest examples of American patriotism is to tell fellow American citizens to "love it or leave it".
"Child poverty in this country is caused 90% of the time by one factor. Poor, uneducated, unemployed, unmarried 15 and 16 year old dummies getting (intentionally) pregnant and giving birth to children that are born poor."
That is a gross misstatement; back Newt and his toadies were screaming about the young black welfare mothers, congress commision a study on this terrible scourge. As it turned out, the majority of children on welfare belong to middle-aged white women over 35, averaging three children per mother.
So, I have no idea if your satement is intentional misdirection or simply a matter of being misinformed, but that concept is a bunch of hooey.
Typical conservative response. It is sad these people can't engage in a critical argument about the behaviour of this country without claiming "we're not as bad as example X, Y or Z, so what's your beef? Leave if you don't like it." Just like our dear president, pride and hubris keep these people from ever admitting fault.
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