Clinton Protest Voters for McCain

I was the first to warn this was coming. Clinton supporters are ticked. I've been getting emails for months. Yesterday, NARAL made it worse.

There is something else that I've been thinking about for quite a while, which came into the forefront with the Edwards endorsement. Immediately upon this event people started talking about Edwards as a vice presidential choice. Talking heads on cable began their projectile analysis that we were now witnessing the political Butch-Sundance team that would lead the working class voters to Democrats and the Party to victory in November.

There's only one problem.

It's huge.

No, gigantic, in fact.

What would an Edwards vice presidency say to all of Hillary's millions and millions of women? I won't print the answer on this blog, but it begins with "f" and ends with you.

Oh, and for the record, Claire McCaskill, Kathleen Sebelius nor Janet Napolitano will do. Ask a Clinton supporter ready to cast a protest vote for McCain. She'll tell you.

As I've said many times recently, I will work hard to defeat John McCain if Obama is the nominee. If Clinton pulls it out, I will work tirelessly for her. I hope everyone is clear about the distinction. The ideals and principles of the Democratic Party mean too much to me, even if the Party elite are acting like thugs.

However, make no mistake about it, the Democratic Party has sent a signal to women that Hillary's candidacy isn't historic. They're nonchalance over her fight about Michigan and Florida, as well as the undemocratic nature of caucuses, not to mention their breezy attitude about pushing her out before this race is through has wounded a lot of people. Ted Kennedy took his fight to the floor with far less of a case than Hillary Clinton has today, yet she's being screamed at to get out. The Democratic elite seem to be saying that the little women got their play in the political pond, but let's get serious, shall we? With the proclamation that Obama was the "presumptive nominee" ready to declare "victory" on May 20th, the women of the Democratic Party were once again proclaimed invisible and expected to fall in line for The One.

Try winning in November without them.

But taking this further, what does this Butch-Sundance storyline say about the traditional media and the Obamabot world, which obviously doesn't get that if Clinton and her female supporters are not respected, they have the power and could stand up and walk out on the Democratic Party to send a message that will reverberate for months and years to come. That message will result in a McCain presidency.

For anyone who doubts this could happen please start reading the comment sections on the Hillary Clinton blogs. Some are over the top, but most people are coming from thoughtful political perspectives from activists who are very serious about what's now unfolding in the Democratic Party. These Clinton supporters who are threatening a protest vote for John McCain are large in number, many of whom are regulars on my blog and in the comment section, with hundreds of emails from lurkers to me every day saying they will not vote for Obama if he's the nominee. The disrespect for Hillary Clinton has been too wide and too deep in the Democratic Party, and they're not going to support it anymore.

Memo to the Democratic leadership elite: Consider yourselves on notice. Hell hath no fury. Believe it.

Taylor Marsh LIVE! can be heard from 3-4 pm eastern - 12-1 p.m pacific, Mon.-Thurs, with podcasts available.

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Comments

[aofh]

Wow. The Cult of Hillary. There is no argument here, no way to a satisfactory resoulution. If this were a marriage, the only healthy solution would be divorce. The children are f****d.

[meileen]

Right on!

I won't vote for McCain, but I will write in Hillary. My state is one of the few that is Obama safe, so it won't effect the outcome, but it will send a signal that the Democrats did lose a large portion of hard working people. No more calls/letters or any other footwork for the party from me. This year taught me a lot about the underbelly of the Democratic Party and where they don't stand.

[Zanti]

The pity of it is that the arrogant twits--all of whom think they own the party and that anyone who disagrees can go to hell--aren't going to learn from this. They'll go on thinking that we did something wrong by holding different values and going for someone other than their MSNBC-chosen tall, mixed-race male.

I knew that the anti-populist trend in our party would royally screw us over at some point, but I never though it would happen this soon. Maybe I need to become more cynical.

Oh, and count on some dick asking you if "hard working people" means white.

[SteveClements]

I am trying but I don't understand. I want a woman as President. I have three daughters and 4 granddaughters and I do think it is time. But that doesn't mean I am for Hillary. She is not and never has been a populist. Look at all her ties with special intersets and union busting, Mark Penn, Wal-Mart etc. Unless you mean a populist like the old Huey Long who talked the populist talk while selling out the people to all the special interests.I also think it is time for an African American, a Latino, etc. There are many women who are offended by the implication that Hillary speaks for all women.
Women have every right to be proud of the great women leaders out there, many with much more real executive experience than Hillary has. And I do think women should insist that a woman be on the ticket, but of course it should be a woman with executive experience and one with whom Obama would fell comfortable. It would be just as absurd to insist that Hillary be Obama's VP as it would be to insist that Obama be hers if the situation was reversed.

[SayonaraSnot]

Never surrender, bb.

LOL

[maritabox]

You people are setting back women's progress for 40 years. You are jealous, spitefull and hysterical. What do you think to accomplish with this, I do not know. This will not bring you glory or satifaction.
You are confirming all the negitive things that stereotype women. Thanks a lot. All you will do is secure your place in the dust bin of history.

"The weak can never forgive. Forgivenes is the atribute of the strong."

-------- Mahatma Gandhi

[onelovecandy]

Another name for your group could be bitter voters for McCain. The ones who cling to emotions and hurt internet feelings. The religion of girls rule! The ones who when they are disillusioned vote against their party in order to be mean spirited. I for one am glad McCain has finally found his core group of supporters. And win or lose the world will continue to turn without you ladies. Take your vote and go home and don't come out to play with us ever again.

[allonfla]

The Democratic party is suddenly responsible for the sexism in this country? That is a stretch. The only thing the DNC is guilty of is standing by the winner CHOSEN by individual voters.

The media, DNC have given Hillary Clinton the benefit of the doubt even when she did not deserve it. Everytime she moves the goal post or claims she is making a come back, they stepped aside and played by her ever changing rules. Even as she was losing big time, some were still asking, Can she still get the nomination? Why do you think there hasn't been a massive movement of superdelegates to Obama. They are coming little by little everyday, but many are still holding back. If Clinton was the front runner and won 11 contests in a row, the supers would have jumped in her boat and this would have been a done deal months ago and we wouldn't even remember who Obama was.

There is no one, NO ONE, who could have gotten away with all these comebacks for so long!

[altohone]

Feminists for McCain again!

Instead of feeding the beast, shouldn't you be convincing these people how foolish such protest votes would be?

Whose side are you on?

[Zanti]

Women's. Women make up a little more than half the population. They count.

Or should. Our allegedy progressive party needs to formally recognize their gender. And you can be sure that the vile gender-bashing happening all over this thread (and this site) has been endorsed by the tone coming out the pathetic Boys' Club that runs our once-proud party.

Maybe we can replace those boys with men. Men who will, in turn, be happy to work with women. If the first step involves a mass protest, let it be. Sometimes that's what it takes.

[jvarga]

So the best way to be on the side of women is to support their voting for the candidate who will do them the most harm?

[SayonaraSnot]

Oh please, do not for a MINUTE try to argue that "women" feel this way. There are a few loud, shortsighted, petulant women who are pissed off on the internet. OH NOES. However, they are a small minority. So don't say TM is on the sire of women. I can tell you right now she's not on my side!

[altohone]

You do realize that Democrats made a woman Speaker of the House?

Who is saying women don't count?
Your allegedly progressive candidate who voted for the Bush agenda?
Those the alleged progressives you're referring to?

[JavaCityGal]

This is not "women" that have an issue with the DNC, please don't stereotype me in with you. I am an Obama supporter and I do not have a problem with the Democratic party. Actually, watching the Dem party stand up to Bush lately as made me very proud of them.

I also don't see sexism everywhere as some seem to do. Does sexism exist? Sure. But if you're constantly crying wolf over everything all the time, people tend to not listen.

[allonfla]

Why she lost!!!!

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/5/16/82955/4594/852/516803

I am an Obama supporter, but Hillary's supporters are making her look bad. I will repeat to her supporters what Hillary said to Obama after that ABC debate

"IF YOU CAN'T STAND THE HEAT........" you know the rest.

[SayonaraSnot]

It speaks the truth. But the truth hurts, and blaming NARAL, Obama, the DNC, the Sexist Media, etc is so much easier.

[Dachozen1]

How can u blame these senseless fools. They were manipulated by their master who played the whoa is me card. Poor Hillary and all the guys are trying to push me out. They have been doing this since i was a child. The problem is people become fanatics and lose the ability to think for themselves. Every issue that has been raised is due to Hillary not being truthful. The whole Michigan/Florida thing that she agreed to that wasnt an issue until she fell behind. The whole everybody is picking on me thing. She played the victim and her supporters are under the illusion their fearless leader is being treated unfairly. The opposite is true. We were ready to hand her the nominee until she loss her integrity on a lot of issues. Hillary id my girl but she showed a side of her i never knew. The pandering and the politics of separation were things i didnt expect from her and her supporters.

[SayonaraSnot]

She thought she's have the nomination wrapped up by Super Tuesday, which would have made the Mighigan and Florida issues irrelevant. So yup, she didn't care about the "disenfran­chisement" of voters there at ALL. She said "everyone knows the results there won't count".

[4wehttam]

How dare Clinton supporters threaten me and my family out of spite? As a woman, as a mother and a wife I am absolutely appalled at the lack of coherent thinking on the part of these so called "feminists." I have volunteered & dedicated my time and money for the advancement and education of all women regardless of race, religion or sexual orientation. I started out supporting Clinton, but she let me down by her exploitation of issues & divisions. She lost, but not because of foul play. Her campaign made crucial errors, gaffes and discounted alot of things, but most of all they discounted the American people's desire for a new kind of leadership which consisted of honesty, integrity & a vision of unity.

To be told by an angry mob of my own gender that they will vote for someone who goes against the very fabric of feminist beliefs, someone who does NOT believe in equal pay for women, someone who insists women do not have the right to choose even in the case of RAPE or INCEST, someone who wants to overturn Roe v Wade, someone who favors abstinence-only sex ed. Beyond that McCain goes against the will of over 70% of Americans who are not happy with the way our country is run under the Bush administration. For these women to blatantly use their votes or lack thereof to punish not only the DNC but all hard working Americans is a travesty of the worst kind.

[onelovecandy]

wehttam I am with you. It is unbelievable that angst and enmity could be so far reaching.

Out of spite. Out of spite you say. Are you f***ing kidding me!!!! If the presidency is not bigger than the women's movement then I don't know what is. I feel these reactions show why women are not ready. And I am one!!!

The day we women understand that EMOTIONS do not belong in most public dealings and certainly not in the picking of a president, that is the day we are ready.

All this over the top behavior is only serving to set us back hundreds of years. Oh yeah ladies I hear you loud and clear. You have spite and devisiveness and you are prepared to use it. In the words of Howard Dean...yyy­eeeehhhhaa­ahhh!!!

[Zanti]

"All this over the top behavior is only serving to set us back hundreds of years."

First, I hear that the votes in question don't matter for anything. Then I hear that the proposed protest is going to hurt the party.

Decide on a charge and stick to it. Good grief.

[jvarga]

Very good post.

[prdamericanmom]

I've said it before and I'll say it again:

If they want to vote Mc Cain, that's fine. If he gets elected, they should get ready to replace our troops in Iraq since he wants to keep them there as long as possible. Three and four tours in a bloody warzone are more than enough when one tour wasn't even freaking necessary. Since nobody wants to even join the military now (and who can blame them?) you can consider it the biggest humanitarian deed of your life.

If they or any of their female relatives are of childbearing age, please make sure they don't get pregnant unless they really want to. They will no longer have a choice if the pregnancy is unwanted, or (God forbid) they are raped or victims of incest. Yes folks, Roe v. Wade is in grave danger if John Mc Cain is elected into the Oval Office.

Can you imagine how much higher the cost of gasoline could go, too? It's a good thing you would be in Iraq earning that hazard pay, isn't it? Maybe your loved ones back here at home might be able to afford a happy meal or something once they've paid the bills and gassed up the vehicles.

After the spite vote threats, more threats to take back donations in Mi. and Fl., and bullying superdelegates, it's truly a sad state of affairs.

[lawchic]

Preach on it.

[sytgrl]

Hillary Clinton supporters:

Please explain this to me. I really want to understand and have some dialogue around this. What's the deal?

1) What has the Obama campaign (not any blogs) ever said that has been disrespectful or not within the fairness of the campaign? Obama has never called for Hillary to get out of the race, nor has he talked about making Edwards VP.

2) Why won't another woman candidate do as VP? Why Hillary or no one at all. How can you be upset if a woman candidate is chosen?

3) Why all the hate towards NARAL? I looked at the comments on their blog, and everyone is upset about them endorsing early. Groups have been endorsing throughout this campaign. Why should they be different? And how does voting for a pro-life candidate do anyone any good, if you care about pro-choice issues?

Look, I get it. I am an black woman who works on anti-oppression issues. I've seen racist, sexist, and ageist comments on many on the blogs. However, nothing that any dumbass says on any blog is going to affect the way I vote. That is a precious thing. And personally, I would consider not voting for Hillary if she were to be the nominee, but I base that on things that SHE has said and done, not her surrogates or the media, or anyone else. But I would think very hard about that one. That is my right, as it is yours.

[sytgrl]

(con't)

However, I don't get this "you'd better apologize and understand that we are upset" thing. If you don't want to vote for Obama, and you are a democrat (which I am not), fine. But where does this idea come from that anybody owes you something? That additional layer has me perplexed. Should Hillary become the nominee, I don't expect anyone to issue an apology on her behalf, only she can begin to heal her own actions. Please explain.

And lastly, how can you stand up for injustice against your candidate, and yet fail to hold Hillary accountable for the injustices she has done?

I would appreciate some thoughtful comments on this...

[CommittedDem]

Obama misrepresented Hillary's comment about MLK and LBJ. Obama continuously trashes the 90s to the point that you'd think he were a Republican. He was incredibly dishonest about his association with Jeremiah Wright. He sat in a church of a anti-American racist for 20 years. Obama has no record to run on, and has invented one built on rhetoric. I have no use for a duplicitous, race-hustling, opportunist. Whatsmore his supporters are the most hate-filled bunch that I have ever met.

[savagetiger]

Even if you do believe this, do you fail to see similar, if not worse characteristics from your own candidate? Try to be genuine.

[Zanti]

That's about it.

But THEY'LL tell you there's no hate in their veins. And that only a tiny minority of "rethug" spies are typing all these bad things, and yada, yada.

They are so far in denial, I doubt they can still make toast.

[sytgrl]

"Obama misrepresented Hillary's comment about MLK and LBJ. Obama continuously trashes the 90s to the point that you'd think he were a Republican­."--That's not true. His only comment was that her words were "unfortunate."

"Obama continuously trashes the 90s to the point that you'd think he were a Republican." He talked about Hillary's support of NAFTA, and her views in the 90s. You may not like it, but how is this outside the realm of political discourse? Am I missing something?

As far as the rest of your comments, it seems that you just don't care for Obama, which is fair. But you have yet to give me any specific facts as to what Obama has done to be disrespectful of Clinton. And, as I said, I am trying to look past posters on blogs for this conversation, as there is no way to legitimize anything that is posted. I look forward to hearing more from you.

[lawchic]

HRC made a factual but unfortunate comment about MLK and LBJ. I wish people would stop trying to blame everyone else but her for it. Did LBJ sign the civil rights legislation into law, absolutely. That is 100% correct. But unless you are ignorant of history, any person would realize that it was through the grass roots efforts of MLK and hundreds and thousands of supporters that put that legislation in front of LBJ. It was through their blood, sweat and tears that change came from the bottom up.

HRC said "it takes a President to get it done." While that might be factually accurate, I believe it reveals a) she views the presidency in singular "I" terms; and b) she is willing to fudge history in order to try to make a cheap shot at her opponent. You probably view it differently.

And as far as Obama talking about the 90s thing, I find it interesting that people (like WJC) get offended about him putting down the 90s, but HRC supporters don't seem to mind that she takes credit for her husband's presidency. Was she an extremely active and competent first lady? no doubt. But I am not of the belief that you can gain executive experience through osmosis. But that's just me.

As for your other comments, you are entitled to your opinions, but if that's what your left with, so be it.

[mindact]

You see the problem with Hillary is that in her lust for the presidency, she's been willing to say anything to win. Case in point, the LBJ MLK stuff. When Barack said if anyone had told MLK he couldn't hope, we won't have had civil rights. Hillary responded that MLK had a dream and it took a president to get it done. Obama's camp did not need to tell anyone hoe innapropriate it was to make a statement like that. It was obvious to a lot of people that it sounded like she was trying to disparage MLKs effort. It's the same trying to get one-up attitude that caused her to make the statement about obliterating Iran and creating a blanket of protection in the middle east. She spoke those statements and it cost her the election

[donkat]

I'm an Obama supporter and dislike her as much as her supporters dislike him. Were the situation reversed, I would vote for neither Clinton or McCain. Why anyone who believes in democratic principles would actually cast a vote for McCain is beyond me. That, I could not do. I think the Hillary folk are a much angrier and more vindicative group than the Obama supporters. Much as I dislike her, I'm not that angry or hateful. The Clinton people seem more like Repubs so I guess it might make sense that they would vote McCain.

[kira181]

Thank you, Taylor.

[CommittedDem]

You're very brave to post here still Taylor. I admire you a ton, and agree with yo 100%. You speak for so many people. More people than Obama supporters want to realize. They hate the fact that Hillary has gotten the support of 48% of the party, and as a result they want to pretend that we don't exist and don't matter.

[onelovecandy]

What do you want an award that says you matter... YOU MATTER!!! ok..you feel better now. Everyone matters. There has to be a winner as a result there also has to be a loser. You can be a graceful loser, regardless of provocation or a sore loser... you decide. You can take you little vote and go home with it and not speak to the election every again. You know what... the world will continue to rotate on its axis.

[Zanti]

"the world will continue to rotate on its axis."

Great! Then why don't you folks shut up for a while. Otherwise, you're leading me to think that you DO care about our votes, in spite of what you insist.

If you think we're a bunch of deluded losers, then IGNORE us. Be my guest!!!

[Zanti]

Actually, they started out with the notion that only THEY exist. And only THEIR point of view. This is their "everyone who disagrees can leave the party" mentality coming back to bite them.

Our party's mistake was letting such looneys gain so much control. They're analogous to the neocon fanatics who've killed the Republican party. The only reason they haven't been able to do as much harm is because voters, in general, find conservative zealots less scary than progressive ones. They vote for the former far more willingly.

[chriss0114]

Why is it that so many believe the rules must be rewritten so HRC comes out on top?

It has ALWAYS been about delegates and that is how HRC planned her campaign with her winning enough delegates on super Tuesday to wrap it up. What kind of case can be made to alter the results?

HRC signed onto and knew the consequences of FL and MI moving their primaries up (as well as the states). Her campaign is what has held up seating the MI delegates thus far because they want more than the net 10 delegates they would get under the compromise proposed by MI and accepted by Obama.

Now, we have HRC supporters saying they will either not vote or will vote for McCain regardless of the consequences. Maybe resulting in reversal of legalized abortion with no exceptions - maybe forcing a 10 year old rape victim to carry a child to term.

Maybe resulting in more loss of life and limb in the mind numbing war mongering that has been going on just to "get back at" the Obamabots.

Use your heads and search your hearts.

[bookerone]

I worked my butt off for reproductive rights when Abortion was illegal as did many women my age. For NARAL to do what they have done is an outright insult. NARAL will never get a red cent from me again and when abortion is again outlawed thanks to Obama and McCain well let all those young women figure out how to find a back alley.

[jvarga]

Do you have any idea how ridiculous you sound? "I worked hard for abortion rights so now I'm going to help piss them away and then it will be everyone's fault but my own".

[Zanti]

In which thread did she say that? Link, please.

[allonfla]

Why Hillary Lost !

http://www.tnr.com/politics/story.html?id=f7a4a380-c4a4-4f84-b653-f252e8569915te:

Obama "shoved" in? That's funny. He had a well planned strategy that made his wins look easy. Hillary came off as the "fighter" because she was desperate and losing.

How can you say McCain is the next best thing? Have you read the articles on this website. I know this site is pro-Democrat but at least the articles are TRUE.