Obama and McCain Unlikely to Woo Hardcore Pa. Gun Rights Voters
**By Kristina Peterson**
HAZLETON, Pa. --- Hazle Township resident Anne Marie Shelby is blind in her right eye, so she shoots using her left. But the Pennsylvania gun owner will rely on her right hand to pull the lever for Democratic presidential nominee Barack Obama next week.
"He supports the Second Amendment. He just doesn't believe guns should be given to known criminals," said Shelby, an Obama volunteer in Hazleton, a city located in Pennsylvania's 11th Congressional district and home to just over 23,000 residents, according to the 2000 U.S. Census.
Shelby, whose family collects guns as an investment, is somewhat of an outlier among the 580,000 state residents with a current license to carry a gun, according to the Pennsylvania Sheriffs' Association. Within the state of 12.4 million residents, owning a gun is slightly more common than carpooling to work -- just over 577,000 Pennsylvanians shared a commute, the U.S. Census Bureau reported in 2000. But despite the millions of campaign dollars the Democratic and Republican parties have poured into Pennsylvania, gun owners often have little good to say about either candidate.
Chambersburg resident Greg Rotz tends the grill
at a picnic of the Pennsylvania Firearm Owners
Association online members.
Perhaps the most concerned about Second Amendment politics are the online members of the Pennsylvania Firearm Owners' Association, most of whom chose to openly carry their guns when they gathered for a regional picnic at Hazle Township Community Park on Oct. 25. The majority of picnickers said they would likely vote neither for Obama nor Republican candidate John McCain, but Libertarian candidate Bob Barr or another fringe candidate who hews more closely to their pro-gun, government-wary point of view.
Few local gun owners support Obama, who so far has largely tailored his gun stance to hunters, whom he has promised will be able to buy and transport firearms, though he supports control of assault weapons and stricter gun licensing laws. McCain, meanwhile, opposes banning assault weapons or confiscating citizens' guns after an emergency. But neither candidate goes as far as Barr, who rejects "any law requiring registration of, or restricting the ownership, manufacture, or transfer or sale of firearms or ammunition to law-abiding citizens," according to his Web site.
Tom Young, a Campbelltown trucker who drives a 1,640-mile route to deliver supplies to the U.S. Army's 101st Airborne Division, based at Fort Campbell in Kentucky each week, said he had planned to vote for McCain until the senator approved the Congressional bailout plan. The problem with government, he said, is that it doesn't know when to stop asking for money.
"If you give a kid a cookie, he's going to want a glass of milk," said Young, who lives with his girlfriend's three children. "The government's like kids -- they always want more."
On the cold, rainy Saturday, picnic organizer and Chambersburg resident Greg Rotz flipped burgers and hot dogs, his coat rising above the gun tucked into his jeans. Under the wooden picnic shelter strung with makeshift blue tarps, Pittston resident Norman Vincent, his own Kimber .45 strapped to his hip, divulged the secret ingredients in his famous baked beans: habanero chiles, molasses and "a little bit of this, a little bit of that." While the picnickers agreed that the Republican Party better supported their rights as gun owners, most said that was not enough to make them vote for McCain.
"The Republican party as a whole has shifted to the left," said Rotz, who thought the government had become too involved in health care and the economy. Out of all four presidential and vice presidential candidates, he thought Alaska Governor Sarah Palin was the most appealing, but still planned to vote for a third-party candidate.
"She seems the most like a regular person, but that's not enough for me to go pull the lever for John," said Rotz.
Nearly every one of the roughly 15 picnickers had supported the officially Republican but libertarian-leaning candidate from Texas, Rep. Ron Paul, in the primary and some are still struggling with where to transfer allegiance in the general election.
"If the Democrats would get off their Second Amendment stance, I would probably vote for them," said Lancaster resident Matt Garner, a cook with a catering company. Like many of the event's attendees, Garner said he had done his homework, researching who supported gun rights. He also had visited a non-partisan Web site and calculated which nominee would tax his income more heavily. Under a McCain administration Garner would pay $700 more in taxes, but he said he would still likely vote for the Republican.
"That's really nothing, that's two weeks' pay," Garner said. "I wouldn't give up my Second Amendment rights for $700 any day."
For many picnickers, gun control was the single issue that determined their voting patterns. A candidate without the endorsement of the National Rifle Association had little chance of winning over Hazleton resident Craig Budde, a former telecommunications worker who is now disabled.
Budde had researched Obama's voting record in the Illinois state senate. "He's voted for more anti-gun legislation than any other politician," he said.
But Shelby, the Obama volunteer, said the NRA holds too much sway over its roughly 4 million members.
"You don't have a conscience or mind of your own?" she asked an invisible gun owner. "Obama is a constitutional lawyer! He has to know more about the Constitution than John McCain!"
In fact, the NRA's endorsements have at times sent Pennsylvanians to vote for Democratic politicians. Truck driver Tom Young said he has voted for and continues to support Democratic U.S. Rep. Tim Holden.
"He agrees with most of the stuff I think is right," said Young, who is pro-choice. "I met him a few times and he takes the time to listen to you, which is important."
Obama's endorsement from the American Hunters and Shooters Association held little sway at the picnic. Few of the attendees even enjoyed hunting.
"I tried hunting. I didn't care for it," said Vincent, who wore a baseball cap emblazoned with the logo from gun manufacturer Kahr. Picnickers said they carried guns for protection and in Pennsylvania it is legal to openly carry a firearm almost anywhere other than a public school.
"It's for the same reason you wear a seat belt or have a fire extinguisher," said Rotz. "You hope you never need it, but in certain situations it might be invaluable." Rotz said he only conceals his gun when visiting a new church and those weddings where the bride and groom are not wearing camouflage, so as to not "shine the spotlight on myself."
Younger voters were largely absent from the picnic, but their parents knew how they stood. York resident Dottie Wright believes in her right to carry a gun and thinks McCain agrees. But Wright's daughter, a senior at Rutgers University, plans to vote for Obama.
"That's her opinion and she's entitled," Wright said.
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In your article you write:
"580,000 state residents with a current license to carry a gun, according to the Pennsylvania Sheriffs' Association. Within the state of 12.4 million residents, owning a gun is slightly more common than carpooling to work -- just over 577,000 Pennsylvanians shared a commute"
You confuse the number of people with a "license to carry a gun" with "owning a gun". Actually, more than 60% of all Pennsylvania housholds have at least one or more firearms, so the actual number of "gun owners", or people with access to guns, is probably north of 7 million in Pennsylvania alone. The 580,000 licensed concealed carry holders are just the tip of the iceburg, so to speak.
The exact same standards should apply to those seeking to exercise the privilege of voting as to those seeking to exercise the right to keep and bear arms. In other words, if you don't qualify to buy, own and carry a gun in your jurisdiction, then you shouldn't be allowed to vote there (or anywhere else) either.
I have no problem with citizens owning guns. My mom, who is voting for Obama, is a member of the NRA and keeps a .38 under her pillow. I do think that gun ownership should require proper training in the safe handling of them. Too many children are killed and injured due to idiot gun-happy parents.
I also believe that one should have to pass a basic background check in order to purchase a firearm.
In some cases, a basic intelligence test.
I understand the sentiment, but have one issue with this: once you require training, licenses, etc, the government has a list of who is armed. This notion is the antithesis to the 2nd Amendment philosophy.
But, I really do understand the sentiment. I just think that the government should have nothing to do with it. This is one instance where it needs to absolutely be a citizen-based group, with strong privacy ethics. Or something like that.
That said, every accidental and some intentional gun deaths are tragic. US citizens are, in a sense, the 4th branch of government and we need to keep it in our hands, privately policed or we lose the spirit of the amendment.
I am glad to see so many Democrats who have no problem with the 2nd Amendment. Makes me more comfortable with inching my way over to your side.
Why does she need to keep a gun under her pillow?
The way this system of things is going Emlyn, why would you ask? If I had a gun I would do the same thing. It's scary out there.
I am a DEMOCRAT and an OBAMA supporter. I also grew up with guns and owned and shot and hunted from a young age. People seem to think that Democrat automatically means anti-gun. Not so !
I was at a rally for a local democratic candidate and, in talking to many of the groups, most owned guns and some of the "white haired ladies" there were packing with a concealed weapon permit!
You do see concern in inner city areas where crime is a major problem but D's & R's alike are politicians first and rights advocates second. Both sides will feel the direction of the wind and talk that line when it is to their political advantage.
Recent years have seen civil and constitutional erosion created by politicians under a republican president. ALL of our rights are or should be sacred but some less so according to the current congress. "We the People" have to keep our voices heard. The next batch to hit DC will be "gun shy" after the upset that is about to happen.
Hippies:)
Obama has not indicated he will take their guns!
Biden clearly is for them!
So if we lose them it is for other reasons like R0B0 Calls!
our country has all these HUGE problems facing us and PA gun-totlers are concerned about their sacred guns and won't vote for Obama ... no matter what other issues there are... where he will fight for each and every middle class person? So all those rednecks like is their cud, their chew and their guns. Wow!
Yeah! I stay pack in case BUSH, CHAINY & McCAIN drop by. Hell they're not invited.
The weather will be nice in the Atlanta metro area Tuesday. My kids and I will be at the polls with folding chairs and bottles of water. If you voted early, I BEG you to take the day off (or the two hours allowed by most states) and do the same!!! Please bring whatever you need to get you through the wait, i.e. books, ipod, snack, meds, etc.. No matter what...STAY IN LINE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Nov 4 - Partly Cloudy - 67°/49° (Go to www.weather.com and enter your zip code to check for the weather in you location. Do a 10-day outlook.)
GA early voters, check here to make sure your vote was counted!! http://www.sos.georgia.gov/elections/polllocator/PollLocator.aspx
Yes, I'm always packing' heat when I grill those dogs. Never know when a terrorist may show up at the cookout!!! OMG
Terrorists do love them dogs!
Mock all you want, the 2nd Amendment is not about terrorism, hunting or being a gangsta. The 2nd Amendment was not included by our forefathers lightly.
This is where so many of us disillusioned GOP people have a problem with the Democratic party. An unarmed population is a powerless population. What if Bush/Cheney decided to declare martial law and stay in power? (Unlikely scenario, I know, but work with me, it's happened in other countries.) Do you really think your mighty blogging prowess would stave off governmental tyranny? Probably not.
This is where that trite saying "My 2nd Amendment rights protect your 1st" comes from. There's a lot of truth to it.
Haven't you noticed the increasing violations on our civil liberties? One of your own, Amy something or other, was arrested at the RNC for nothing. Does she really pose a threat? Now we have the stage set: The Patriot Act, FISA, increased executive power, etc.
Disarming a population puts too much power into the hands of tyrants and criminals and does not promote self-reliance. This is not a good thing. I'm a single female, and I want to be able to defend myself. Just like I have a right to decide when it comes to my body, I want the right to defend myself against those who would choose to violate it.
I suspect this just might get deleted, but I hope not.
I completely agree. I am very worried about the present administration not giving up all the power it has amassed during the past 8 years. I don't own a gun but if I wanted to go out and buy one tomorrow (in case of a picnic LOL) I want to have the right to do so. I am tired of our government chipping away at our freedoms. I am especially unhappy about the Army now being able to deploy troops on our own soil. I don't agree that we need automatic weapons and I hate the sway that the NRA has over some, but I will stand for the rights of gun owners.
I have to agree with gbrooks on this one. I'm a true-blue democrat, borderline vegan, pro-choice, non-religious supporter of animal rights and everything else you can imagine under the liberal label. However, I am an strict constitutionalist at the same. (Yes, sometimes I have difficulty controlling both of my personalities =). There is a reason the authors of the Constitution saw fit to include the right to bear arms. They understood that government can turn on its people without hesitation. All the proof you need is to review how the Bush administration has slowly, but surely chipped away at our liberties.
That being said, I have never owned a gun, much less ever fired one. But I would never presume to curtail the right of an American citizen to carry any type of gun. The problem is what do we do to stem the numbers of accidental deaths and gun-related homicides in our cities. I don't think the solution lies in changing or creating stricter laws. It lies in addressing the underlying issues that acerbate crime in large cities and education in proper handling of guns to prevent accidental deaths. But moving forward, the Constitution needs to be protected at all costs and it comforts me that my choice for President is man who understand the Constitution inside and out.
Obama '08/'12
I'm right there with gbrooks on this one. We have lost more of the spirit of the Constitution, more of what we proclaim to hold dear - our freedom - during the Bush/Cheney years, than most people seem to realize. An Obama win is an important, no, a crucial first step in repairing the Constitution, but it will not be healed overnight. Furthermore, we can rest uneasily for the next four years while the hard right brings Sarah to a nice, shiny, better-informed gloss and trots her out as the Great White Hope in 2012. We are at a perilous juncture. An armed citizenry may someday be the only thing that stands between freedom and the tyranny of the extreme right's fascist vision of a perfect America. I don't own a gun, and I imagine I can handle one with the precision of Barney Fife, but I sure as heck don't want any government getting between me and my right to buy one. Our forefathers knew what they were doing.
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