What Passes For Debate
Read more reactions from Huffington Post bloggers to ABC's Pennsylvania Democratic debate
Back in the days of our radio show, our standard name for the media was one taken from Jerry Lewis..."pimps and whores". After last night, it's obvious we were too kind.
Instead of sonorously intoning various articles of the Constitution when returning from an ad for bowel cleansing yogurt, perhaps Gibson and Stephanopoulos could have focused just one question on the administration that has been shredding it section by section.
Granted, that may be too much too ask when Charlie & Little George's capital gains taxes are in danger of rising and they need to ascertain just how much bomb-making knowledge the non flag-lapel-pin-wearing Obama may have acquired while listening to sermons. Ohh..and Senator Clinton would you like to add to that?...was your grandfather bitter when he kept a flask of Crown Royal inside the bible he carried on hunting trips?
But it was comforting to see the cutaways to all the Clinton supporters in the audience. And it was reassuring to hear Hillary imply that, with regards to the Bosnia tarmac, yes she may have lied but she won't ever lie again.
It's hard to go on because last night was beyond satire. We have a good friend who doesn't follow politics but watched the debate -- she found it "insulting". Living as we do in Pa., we've heard from more than a few people that Ed Rendell has been trundling across the state threatening any mayor who supports Obama with the loss of funds...that might be news.
But there is no news anymore. We defy anyone to watch the performance of Gibson and Stephanopoulos last night...and then, turn over to C-SPAN for coverage of Cheney at the Radio & Television Correspondents Dinner. Watch the press pissing themselves with laughter over inane quips from a blood-drenched torturer...and tell us this country isn't fucked.
Read more reactions from Huffington Post bloggers to ABC's Pennsylvania Democratic debate
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I disagree. This was the first debate that wasn't just about their campaign slogans.
Kudos to ABC.
Don't you know? The bloggers here know what the real job of ABC's journalists is - making democrats look good! Never mind that some of us aren't even sure whether he loves America or not. He put on a pin and we fly-overee's need to be happy with that and "cling" to him, the way we used to cling to guns and religions before true "hope" came our way!
Thanks you so much for your open-minded approach to the issues, but at least you are not elitist which I guess is the ultimate sin.
The best thing about this debate is at least HRC can't claim that the "boys" were ganging up on her- she certainly wasn't the "victim" last night. The ridiculous nature of the questions- to both HRC and Obama, but esp. Obama, shows that the MSM is not interested in fulfilling their role as impartial arbiters of the truth. Why is it ok to question Obama's patriotism and his past associations, but not a single question to HRC about her current associations with Penn and her husband about their support for the Columbia trade deal? The question about Wright wasn't even factually accurate- Wright NEVER criticized America after 9/11- watch the video again, in full, and listen to what he says several minutes before and leading up to his "Chickens coming home" comment- he was repeating a Bush official who said the same thing on Fox. Anyway, I have a prediction- PA voters shock the pollsters and Obama wins PA on the strength of young voters and AA's who are rarely included in polling data b/c they either use cell phones exclusively or didn't vote in the last election so aren't called. Either way, the "debate" was a sham, the questions for the first 50 minutes didn't serve to illuminate real issues and if McBush wins, then we'll have nobody to blame but ourselves.
I passed away during the debates last night, shortly after the lapel pin question.
I saw the tunnel, the light, and ALL that stuff you hear about, and suddenly I was surrounded by dead people that I recognized, but not my family, or friends. It was people like Reagan, Mao, Hitler, Stalin, McCarthy and Cohen, and ALL of them were wearing their respective flag lapel pins. Apparently, That's ALL their even looking at for admission these days.
So, obviously, I was quickly escorted out, and summarily sent to hell, where all my friends, family, and just about every great person I ever knew or knew of was as well. It's a great place, and I am having a blast.
So if Obama had been thrown the typical softballs, or if the moderators had shrucken away after his usual objections, then would it have somehow been insightful and revealing instead.....Sirs, you are both hypocrites.
I'm tired of this schtick; Hillary was also asked about some very embarrasing episodes.
If Senator Obama had ever been properly vetted, instead of swooned over, this would never have occurred. It is perfectly legitimate to investigate a candidates past. And, owing to his relatively sparse public exposure SENATOR OBAMA'S INNER BELIEFS AND MOTIVATIONS MUST BE INFERRED THROUGH HIS ASSOCIATIONS AS WELL AS HIS ACTIONS. We don't let klansmen, terrorists, or phonys, whether active or bystander, run for the presidency just because they seem to have developed some good ideas. The same is true for folks that hung with them; go back to the sordid Chicago machine.
Correction David Duke.
Hey rocketmanbob,
Regardless of whether you wish it to be true or not, the logical fallacy of "guilt by association" can NEVER, by definition, reveal or meaningfully modify the truth. It is a violation of the rules of basic logic, and is rejected out of hand by any educated person. This is not just my opinion, but rather, rates right up there with the earth being round and similar immutable truths.
RocketmanBob : "Hillary was also asked about some very embarrasing episodes" Some but not these:
Lies about Obama’s plagiarism
Lies about Obama being Ken Starr
Lies about the Hospital Horror Story
Lies and misleading supporters about Obama's record on choice in NH
Lies about Obama's statements re: Reagan in SC
Lies about NAFTA
Lies about Ireland
Lies about the “Unconstitutional” (Fed Judge finding) MI primary
Lies about position on Fl primary
Lies about release of tax records
Lies about redacted White House papers
Lies about White House telephone logs
Lies about phony questions planted in audiences
Lies about sleep deprivation causing - she said it multiple times
Lies about Sinbad... she called him the liar
Lies about Obama being elitist
Lies about Colombia - Among Penn's clients are Countrywide Financial, nation's largest
mortgage lender, Blackwater - under investigation deaths of civilians
Lies about delegates
Lies about staying off ballots
Lies about superdelegates
Lies about Texas
Lies about Senate Telecom immunity bill
Lies about Lyle/Lieberman Iran Resolution
Lies about supporting the war
Lies about ducks
"Zeifman fired Hillary from the committee staff and refused to give her a letter of
recommendation " one of only three people who earned that dubious distinction in Zeifman"s
17-year career.
Why?
'Because she was a liar,' Zeifman said in an interview last week. 'She was an unethical, dishonest
lawyer. She conspired to violate the Constitution, the rules of the House, the rules of the
committee and the rules of confidentiality.'"
You forgot to add that she lied about killing Vince Foster.
Zeifman has an agenda and his slant on what happened has been rebuked by MANY credible contemporaries.
Stop spotting Faux News/Rove/Gingrich talking points.
I wonder just how far down the evolutionary ladder you'd you'd have to go before you start bumping into citizens who thought 'Great debate! All the important issues covered!" For some yokels it is apparently all about the flag pin. I'm leaving pundit David Brooks out of the equation because I just *assume* his own 'thumbs up' was shamelessly disingenuous entirely for the benefit of his pocketbook. Another water-carrier for the RNC.
Where've you been? What amounts to covering important issues to you? Would that be, say, how Obama is going to address "high gas prices" with "alternative fuel research". Like that three word phrase satisfactorily addresses the price of Earth's most highly-demanded commodity. Hell, why doesn't Obama go all the way and waste our money on "alternative to water" research?
"important issues covered" - that's a good one. Let me know when that EVER happens in a televised presidential debate.
Yes, to say it is impossible to cover substantial issues in a presidential debate and them to applaud the trivial questions, as long at they serve the purpose of making Democrats look bad, is priceless.
You say, for some reason, substantial questions can not be asked at a presidential debate. Why? The words just can not tumble from the reporters mouths. God will strike each reporter with lightning who askes a non-trivial question.
It is possible to ask questions of import and substance. If the candidate gives a non-reply, it is possible to say: "I am sorry, but your reply does not answer the question."
Otherwise, all news becomes Fox News, which is probably what you desire anyway.
Hillary is on The Colbert Report tonight. I wish I had a crystal ball because I'd like to watch it but I'm afraid of seeing another "focus group approved" performance of hers. I just can't take anymore of her, will Stephen Colbert help?
Stephen won't show disrespect for a presidential candidate, though I suspect, from reading between the lines, that he's an Obama supporter. It won't do Obama any good to have Senator Clinton attacked on the Colbert show. The negative attacks for Senator Clinton and her campaign have only hurt her and will continue to do so; why turn them on her?
How can anyone show respect a pathological liar? Hillary has stabbed herself in the back too many times to mention and her credibility is lower than shark turds in the Mariannas Trench ( lowest know spot on earth) 6 miles deep underwater.
The debate was a dog and pony show for the elitist’s media. It was a load of “CRAP”. What the hell is the media AFRAID of!!!!
OH, they may report the TRUTH! The FCC has added that word to the list of NINE other words we cannot say out-loud.
To have idiotic journalists waste our precious energy and time on an issue discussing one patriotism over a “lapel pin” while we are in economic crisis and in an endless war really is nothing short of revolting, foolish and insulting beyond comprehension to us as a nation. People are loosing their homes, jobs and lives. The world is watching this.
What has happened to America? Is this really who we are?
I agree very strongly!
WELL where were you guys for all the other debates
(crickets)
ALL Hillary supporters know how awful and biased the media can be, but if you think we are going to jump on your band wagon you are wrong!!!! You guys sat back and watch this bias take place and said nothing because it was in favor of OBAMA and now that the tide has turned you are all like BOO-HOO!! lol lol we good luck make sure you do as much as you can now before your followers go back to playing guitar hero !!
I can say now that I feel your pain.
Hillary was never in danger of being vetted, everyone knows that for a fact. Hillary pre-trail never came up, the court case in California (Peter Paul) never came up, no vetting on NAFTA,, CAFTA, Walmart, Rose Law Firm, saudi arabia, dubai, giustra,monsanto, council of insurance, johnny chung, uranium, america's health insurance plan, richard branson, colonial life ins., etc., All those peopl and places help put this country in the position it is in today and all we can have conversation about vetting Senator Obama on answering for something that someone said, and what someone did 40 years ago or a lapel pin. What is wrong with having a real debate about issues that is causing the American people their homes, jobs health care, etc. 50 minutes of complete nonsense. Get real. Stop voting against what is best for this Country, Hillary supporters. Do what is right.
Hillary supporters will do what is right - they will vote for McCain.
hope you have dreams of all the dead soldiers that have died in Iraq as a result of the war that Hillary signed us on for... their blood and the tears of their loved ones are a stain on her and all who put our soldiers in harms way in an unjust war. As everyday passes and more soldiers continue to die to appease these corporate war mongers - may you know the tears and heartache of every soldier's family. You are complicit in their deaths when you choose to support a woman who from her own lips last night said she would attack Iran... our soldiers are fighting on two warfronts, and she wants to play chicken with the rest of the world. Let your sons and daughters go over there and die for a cause that has nothing to do with the American people.
You are hypocrite who criticize John McCain, but are one and the same, just the female version of him.
May you know what heartache means, and may you never find comfort or peace with every day that a soldier dies
The news media in the United States are a vile, filthy joke that is gradually destroying your country. Canada's public broadcaster has so far ensured that our standards are higher, but they're being gutting by our loathsome, Bush-loving Prime Minister.
People don't seem to realize that past attempts to control the populace failed primarily because no central government could keep track of so many people in detail. The the nearly-incomprehensible speed with which computers sort data and the unbelievable amount of it now routinely collected on individuals change that situation drastically.
If Joseph McCarthy came along now, his question would not be, "Are you or have you ever been a member of the Communist Party?" It would be, "Why did you withdraw $100 in the afternoon on April 17 if you didn't give it to Communist Party member John Doe, who deposited $100 into his account that evening? You withdrew another $100 on the 18th, and our records indicate that neither you nor your dependents bought anything in the intervening time".
The Press is supposed to alert us to the danger of our comfortable slide toward oligarchy. Instead, they're assisting it. When was the last time anybody can recall seeing a candidate really grilled on the issues instead of whether they wear a flag pin?
Counterglow, well said and very true.
Yes, and former government attorney John Yoo says we must employ such data mining practices for our "safety."
Unlike many on this website, I was happy to watch all the private mudslinging brought forward into a national free broadcast spectrum. What had been limited to campaign mailings and blogosphere pinging finally became open discussion whether it was Hillary's Bosnia embellishments or Obama's silence after claiming he hadn't personally engaged in some of the mudslinging when one of the commentators pointed out that his campaign clearly had.
My disappointment of the night was watching both candidates pussy-foot around Gibson's capital gains tax question. A lot of comments in the blogosphere I've read take a simplistic look at the question as Gibson's self-serving attempt to keep his stock portfolio from hemorrhaging too much. But the real disappointment was that neither candidate would rise to the challenge Gibson appeared to be presenting-the simple assertional that low capital gains tax translates to good economic growth.
Isn't it possible that the low capital gains tax contributed to an environment of uncontrolled growth in an areas that don't add enough real and lasting value underneath? Isn't this one of the real lessons of Enron and the mortgage crisis? Why could neither candidate tell Gibson that the 15% capital gains tax may have contributed to getting us in this place and therefore warrants a closer look.
So sad to see that we are being reduced to mudslinging so that we don't have the time to actually discuss what is wrong and how we can fix our economy, war in Iraq, our health care system, our educational system, our infra structure. Put can talk about a pin on a lapel. Yet we want to be a super power. How Ironic!
"...intoning various articles of the Constitution when returning from an ad..."
I know, that was weird. Complete dissonance between that and what was happening on stage. I would've been happy enough to have listened to just the Bill of Rights discussed. (I know, I'm weird.)
Who put this program together? Too bad "they" don't respect our intelligence enough to have asked just policy related questions. Shit, I'm smart enough to watch the debate rather than Amerikan Idol or some other inane show on TV, and yet the eggheads at ABC insult me with "Running Man," which would have been great fare for Idol fans, but of course they weren't tuned in.
I'm worried that the superdelegates will follow suit and not respect our intelligence come convention time. I hope I'm wrong, or we're f#%ked.
With some exceptions such as Keith Olbermann & yes Jon Stewart - the press are nothing less than street corner whores for their corporate pimps.
Charlie & LITTLE George you made Fox & your corporate pimps very proud last night.
i think olbermann's regular guests are also great, particularly rachel maddow and the gentleman from the washington post (cannot remember his name right now). dan abrams' "verdict" is also one of the good programs out there...
Great debate between Gibson and Obama.
Yea, too bad Gibson controlled the debate or Obama would have ate him alive. This Gibson cannot possibly be considered a journalist. He should be relegated to some job in Florida at one of Disney's fantasy rides. That kind of job however may still tax his mind even dealing in fantasy and make believe, what a dolt!
After watching the "debate" I'm left with one thought.......I can't wait to see The Daily Show tonight!
Or Real Time tomorrow night...
As far as the "jeering and heckling" the poor wittle moderators experienced (boo hoo!), I keep hoping to read that, additionally, they were "torn to shreds by the angry crowd." So far no luck.
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