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Thomas de Zengotita

Thomas de Zengotita

Posted: March 28, 2010 05:31 PM

Health Insurance Compared to Auto Insurance; Why the Republican Argument is Bogus

What's Your Reaction:

The positive comparison says, yes, it's OK to require people to buy health insurance--we require them to buy auto insurance, don't we?

Republican Attorneys General planning lawsuits are featuring this response: you aren't required to buy a car, that's a choice. So, if you choose to buy a car you can be required to have insurance, to protect others from the cost of accidents you may cause. But with health care, they say, the government is directly requiring that people purchase a product and that's what makes it different.

Leave it to the experts to decide how this plays out legally--state vs. federal jurisdiction, interstate commerce, whatever the technical issues are. But as a matter of sheer logic there's this:

Someday you will get sick or injured. That's not an option. It will happen. And if you are not insured other people will have to pay for your care. So the real analogy with auto insurance is this: you are driving a car from the day you are born.


 
 
 
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HUFFPOST PUNDIT
Puller58
Man of Mystery
05:53 AM on 05/25/2010
Amazing how the unpopular points are avoided by shills for the healthcare reform law. Once again, the idea that illegal aliens are allowed to stay and be subsidized either by default or by this reform is absurd.
03:28 PM on 03/29/2010
To stay with this logic, next to getting sick, everyone is guaranteed to pay taxes and to die.

Therefore, the government will establish the rate Accountants can charge and all who files taxes in the U.S. must hire the Accountant at the rate the government has set. In addition, to save money, all tax forms must be filed electronically, which requires a computer, online access, etc. Therefore, the government wll establish the cost of a computer and online access and everyone must purchase the computer and pay the rate for access.
Therefore, the government must set the hourly rate attorneys can charge, and all people living in the U.S. must go to an Attorney to set up a Will/Trust, and on an annual basis will go to the Attorney to review the Will/Trust.
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timm0
It's impossible to have too many malasadas.
09:25 AM on 03/29/2010
Amen.
10:29 PM on 03/28/2010
It is clear that the time is right for oversight of the health insurance industry. In this case, the overseers (Republican state attroney generals appear to be doing the industry's bidding.

http://www.cjr.org/the_audit/reuters_is_excellent_in_diggin.php
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carljr
10:06 PM on 03/28/2010
Actually, the analogy is even better than you've stated it. In jurisdictions that require auto insurance you can opt out provided you write a check to your state which is, in effect, a fine for not having insurance. So the "rules of the road" are exactly the same as what we'll eventually see in the healthcare bill.
09:43 PM on 03/28/2010
All arguments by analogy share in common the central feature which is the lack of sufficient information and logic by which to make a b etter argument. We learned that in high school debate.
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02:03 AM on 03/29/2010
That's a good point. All I remember in my Social Studies class (where we had to debate) is that we had us take on the role of a Congress member. I had some funny teachers and when they told me I was Barney Frank, they were kind of giggling because he was the only openly gay individual who was well known at the time. Considering how well he debates, I would take that as an honor now!
09:50 AM on 03/29/2010
Well deserved! The courage to be yourself is greatly to be praised!
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LMPE
I connect the most dissimilar things
08:12 PM on 03/28/2010
The right wing can't make a coherent argument.
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07:40 PM on 03/28/2010
The question I have is this: Those that do not purchase health insurance and pay the fine; what happens to them if they get sick and show up at a hospital for treatment? They scream "Socialism" but aren't they the one who expect the insured to cover them once insurance is available to all? I think that if they decline insurance and need treatment there should be increasing penalties or their hospital bills should be added to their taxes and they should not be able to file bankruptcy. Just sayin.
iridium53
Semper Fi
07:09 PM on 03/28/2010
You mean except for the fact that driving is considered a privilege?

and, that you can post a bond instead of getting auto insurance?
So, paying the insurance, and their profit, is a convenience rather than an absolute requirement?

and, that if you don't get auto insurance you just have to stop driving? It's optional. Unlike living?

and, that, unlike auto insurance, with healthcare insurance the IRS will fine you, the FBI will pursue you, and the federal courts will jail you if you don't pay?

And, if this paying insurance companies is such a great idea, why didn't the bill either allow competition by removing the exemption from anti-trust legislation? Or, since they've allowed them to maintain an effective monopoly with guaranteed customers (unlike auto insurance companies) regulate them like we do public utilities?

Instead, it just looks like a forced transfer of money from the average taxpayer to the obscene salaries of big healthcare insurance company executives with no real controls over their behavior ($100m for CEO of Cigna?) enforced by the IRS, FBI and Federal Courts.

This bill extends the personal wealth and political power of government officials and part of the ruling class (healthcare insurance executives), via the forced taking of individual funds by the government at the expense of the wider population without even the pretense of honest service for the 20% - 30% profits they are allowed (compared to 15% required rate of return on utilities).
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07:50 PM on 03/28/2010
you are right! we need to work for the public option etc. to cut the insurers out. as it is, it is mafia protection w aetna, bcbs, et al "wetting their beaks"...

but in the meantime we all will consume health care, we need to plan for the this fact. not planning is not a plan and there are those who simply say "no" to everything except angry teabaggery.

d
08:30 PM on 03/28/2010
Your were making valid and coherent differentiations, and then you got to this:

"and, that, unlike auto insurance, with health care insurance the IRS will fine you, the FBI will pursue you, and the federal courts will jail you if you don't pay?"

May I suggest you download the bill? It's about 3 meg of PDF. Go to around page 335. There, in the law as passed, you find that yes, there is a penalty, assessed by the IRS. Thereafter, however, there is, by explicit language, not only a prohibition against assessing criminal penalties, there is a prohibition against liens or levies.

That is another difference, then. Driving without insurance is a criminal matter. Not having health insurance, under this bill, is not.
06:29 PM on 03/28/2010
When will progressives finally come to understand that the tea-partiers and their Republican enablers are immune to the force of rational argument? Better to think of them as cranky three year-olds and either send them to their rooms while the adults try to get their work done or, barring that, distract them with something sparkly. And, yes...I'm talkin' about you, Sarah.
05:52 PM on 03/28/2010
That is the operative principal. The legal point is that the congress has levyed a tax to help cover the expense of publicly provided health care. Anyone who wants to avoid paying that tax can arange to have private health insurance.
The point is there is no mandate to buy private insurance. It is a choice between publicly funded minimal care and privately funded comprehensive care. Nothing unconstitutional about it.
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timm0
It's impossible to have too many malasadas.
07:36 PM on 03/28/2010
I understand that there is more access to CHIP and medicaid. I understand there are some subsidies for employers to pay for health care plans.

But what publicly funded minimal care has been introduced in the legislation? It sounds sort of like a "public option," which I thought Obama said the other day "couldn't get it through Congress."

Maybe you can tell, I've been wanting a strong public option. And if we get one, your logic is right and all the challenges are moot.... but I thought I was paying close attention and haven't heard any breakthrough public option miracles.
11:46 PM on 03/28/2010
We need to get Alan Grayson's medicare buy in passed. HR 4789