Don't Make Me Check IDs
Thanks to Melissa Lafsky for Case for Open Immigration today on the Freakonomics blog on The New York Times. She interviews Philippe Legrain, author of Immigrants: Your Country Needs Them. He has a very healthy perspective:
I think freedom of movement is one of the most basic human rights, as anyone who is denied it can confirm. It is abhorrent that the rich and the educated are allowed to circulate around the world more or less freely, while the poor are not -- causing, in effect, a form of global apartheid.
Yes, thank you, this moves the discussion up a few notches to where it really belongs. Just as water seeks to level its surface, so, too, humans, moving en masse, seek to level their opportunity. Let's at least recognize, as we discuss immigration, what's at stake.
This has been bothering me since last spring when I first saw the proposal that, as a business owner, I'm supposed to enforce INS law -- catching fake social security numbers. I don't want to do that and I don't want anybody in my employ to do that. Won't that point first at ethnic Hispanics? Won't they feel that they've been assumed guilty until proven innocent? Is that what we want for any ethnic group in this country? What about the vast majority of Hispanics who aren't illegal? Is this what we want to do for them?
You can't pull this apart from ethnic discrimination. I don't mean that all efforts to regulate immigration are racist, but rather that some people are using the discussion to disguise prejudice in code. When they say illegal aliens they mean Mexicans. They use that code to reinforce negative stereotypes. For example, would trash in the desert be news without "illegal aliens?" Why do we suppose the Minutemen promote that story? Or how about the example of the recently-publicized crime wave in Arizona; would that have been news if it hadn't involved "illegal aliens?"
So I hope this is really about economics and policy, not xenophobia, and not prejudice. But Legrain, in the interview posted today in Freakonomics, has something to say about the economic side too:
The economic case for open borders is as compelling as the moral one. No government, except perhaps North Korea's, would dream of trying to ban the movement of goods and services across borders; trying to ban the movement of most people who produce goods and services is equally self-defeating. When it comes to the domestic economy, politicians and policymakers are forever urging people to be more mobile, and to move to where the jobs are. But if it is a good thing for people to move from Kentucky to California in search of a better job, why is it so terrible for people to move from Mexico to the U.S. to work?
Does that mean he's right? I don't know, and neither do you. At least it's a real discussion. Ultimately, I think Mexican immigration has a lot more to do with inequality of opportunity than protecting jobs. It's not about the crimes committed by losers who happen to be illegal aliens and it's not about trash left in the desert. I have two suggestions: 1.) that we separate real discussion from collective racial slurs hidden in code. And 2.) that we don't make businesses check IDs.
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Really! Dont' make the business owner who's too busy making money with illegal alien workers have to check ID's. What's this country come to when we give up the opportunity (and right, I'd argue) to exploit the most poor and desperate among us, in order to enrich oneself. We're rightful citizens, afterall. If we can't forget about the millions of low-paid, albeit tax-paying Americans in our midst, and not choose to pay even less to illegals (quite the tidy bonus for me, I don't have to enroll them in a health plan, they just go to the emergency room for whatever ails them) this country has truly lost its sense of direction. Harumph!
you want cheap labor for your business. pay a decent wage and you will get american workers.
we are becomming an elitist nation like mexico. they send their uneducated here so they can keep their elitist status.
it is all due to greed.
the business owners like you want cheap labor.
the repubs want to satisfy the chamber of commerce and corporations.
the demos want the votes.
the catholics want to fill their pews.
the poor souls from mexico only want a job.
they deserve a medal for wanting to work for such greedy americans.
america will become a nation of haves and have nots like mexico. but how did we do with our wealth and power? misused it. karma time.
Great article, Tim.
Our 'immigration' policy has been pretty
screwed up for oh, say, about a quarter-century,
and it's been pushed and pulled and manipulation
for the betterment and benefit of, you guessed
it, companies and corporations that need workers. No wonder it's all so jacked up, if
anyone with a Large Suitcase Full Of Money can
waltz right in, and order up some pro-profit
legislation to go....
I have been in resturants where I could NOT order because NOBODY spoke English for heavens sake. I've had co-workers who have such heavy accents it's difficult to understand WHAT they are saying. Illegals??? You bet!
Business only want illegals here so they can pay low wages. Dont give me that crap that about what a hardship it is to check IDs. You have to give that information to buy travelers checks now so what's the big deal about getting it hire somebody?
This authors states that the vast majority of Hispanics are legal. According to the US Census there were 42.7M Hispanics in 2005. Estimates of illegal immigrants (who are overwhelmingly Hispanic) range from a low of 7M to up to 20M. I think it is fair to say the real numbers are at least close to 15M. That would mean around 35% of Hispanics in the country are illegals or about 1 in 3. Those numbers are definitely high enough to throw that "vast majority are legal" opinion out the window.
1500 ILLEGALS COME INTO THE USA DAILY.
130 ARE CAUGHT AT OR NEAR THE BORDER.
THOUSANDS WARNDERING AROUND USING WELFARE AND SERVICES.
MEANWHILE THE MEXICAN GOVERNMENT REAPS THE BENIFITS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS SENT TO MEXICO WEEKLY.
THE MEXICAN GOVERNMENT ALLOWS AMERICAN BUSINESSES TO BRING IN WORKERS FROM EL SALVADOR, NICARUAGA, GUATAMAULA, AND PANAMA SAYING MEXICANS WON'T DO THIS WORK.
You're assuming that the person with the fake SSN is an illegal alien who is just trying to earn an honest living. They very well might be an identity thief who is illegally using another person'r SSN and ruining their credit. It might be too much of a burden for some small businesses to check the SSN but that doesn't mean that checking is racist. If a person uses another person's SSN illegally they should be imprisoned and if they are an illegal alien they should be deported.
Excellent point, and very true.
I find it hard to believe that the reason we should let millions of illegals into our country is so we don't have to pay alittle more for a head of lettuce. This is about the respect for our laws. I was raised on a farm and have worked hard all my life. Picking lettuce, bailing hay, cutting wood to stay warm, cleaning up after pigs, cows, and chickens was part of everyday life. Hard work is part of some americans life and has been for many years. The american people are not lazy and are willing to pick our own lettuce for a living wage.
All kinds of businesses check IDs to comply with the law. Airlines check IDs. Bartenders check IDs. Convenience store clerks check IDs. Companies doing classified work check IDs. Firearm sellers check IDs.
Businesses don't want to check IDs because they want to be able to claim they were unaware that they were employing illegal immigrants and breaking the law. It's just that simple.
Should a country control its own borders? Yes, of course it should. But how do we answer that question? Do we ask ourselves what is in the best interest of the people of Mexico? No. Americans, and our politicians who make and enforce laws, should ask only one question: what is in the best interest of the working people of the U.S. Anyone who wants to represent the people of Mexico should move to Mexico.
Does it help working people in this country to have an unrestricted flow of labor into the country? No it does not. Does it help businesses? Yes, it does. The effect of this unrestricted flow of labor is to force down wages and eliminate the benefits of employment.
Bill Gates hired Ralph Reed, bff of Jack Abramoff, to "lobby" Congress on behalf of Microsoft to change the laws on immigration so that Microsoft, and all the silicon valley businesses, could bring in all their employees from Pakistan and India, pay them 1/3 what they would pay an American, then throw them out after 5 years and bring in someone new.
If the country is to be run by and on behalf of working people, we need to make it impossible for any illegal immigrant to work, we need to deport illegals, we need to assess significant fines on businesses that hire illegals, we need to impose a strict liability on businesses so that if they don't confirm the employee is legal, the business is fined.
Too bad if the author doesn't want to check papers. It's a minor inconvenience, at most. Most people have to fill out forms, present information, for employment, for health care, for drivers' licenses and registrations. This is no different. The only reason businesses oppose checking papers is because they want to continue hiring illegal workers.
Actually, no, as I wrote above, I object to checking IDs not because I have illegal immigrants among the 39 employees of my company -- I don't -- but because I don't want ours to be a society that singles out certain ethic groups for special treatment, because it leads towards the kind of society that (for example) rationalizes racism. I'm told that when the Nazis made Jews wear that yellow star they had whitewash rhetoric to rationalize it. Sure we can rationalize too, but is it worth it?
Tim Berry.
I've heard other people use this yellow star, Nazi death train argument in connection with illegal immigration, and I think it's a really false argument designed to stir up emotion rather than look at the facts of the situation. The Jewish people in Europe were citizens of their countries. They were rounded up and put on trains to be sent to death camps.
It's just so ridiculous to compare that to finding people who are here in the U.S. without papers and are working, and putting them on a greyhound back to their own country.
The bottom line is economics. Millions of Mexicans have come across the border illegally and taken jobs in the U.S. Americans, at the same time, have seen their own wages, benefits, job security, and working conditions decline. Corporations also bring in engineers, medical workers, software workers, from other countries, and pay them less than they would pay Americans. More labor chasing fewer jobs means lower wages.
If Mexicans were coming across the border for 2 weeks to vacation and spend their money here, then go back home, I don't think you'd be hearing any objections. I don't think this is mostly a racist issue, although it certainly may be with some. But for most Americans I think it's economic.
The communities that have had a large influx of Mexicans find their public resources being exhausted: police, fire, emergency rooms (hospitals closing because of the financial burden of providing services for uninsured illegal immigrants who use emergency rooms as a primary care facility), schools.
People who are working full-time but making less, with everything costing more, who have no job security, and see their communities' resources being overrun by illegal immigrants, have a legitimate right to complain.
My first question for the open borders crowd would be if 20 millions American Citizens wanted to immigrat to Mexico would we be welcome? I know thier immigration laws are enforced. We would be put in jail and then deported.
My second question would be who pays the bill for the illegals coming into the US? The American tax payer does. Big Business gets cheap labor and we pick up the tab for the bills they refuse to pay.
My third question would be about the Rule of Law. Do we say come to our Country break our laws, steal our SS numbers, lower our wages and we forgive you and make you a citizen. We then have sent the message we no longer have respect for the rule of law.
I believe this Country has always been welcoming to LEGAL IMMIGRATION and that should continue, but don't ask the American Citizens to let someone brake down the door, steal our things, spend our money and then open our arms to welcome crimals. It's just not fair.
What is fair?
Is it fair for the child in Baghdad to be repeatedly terrified with constant bombings?
Further, I doubt that it is the immigration of "illegal" workers that's the problem with employment in the U.S. I would think it is the outsourcing of manufacturing and service sector jobs to India and China that is causing more grief.
We pay so much in taxes to support illegals? How much would that produce cost without them?
Why are you being so stingy?
I can't help thinking about the end of the movie "the Day After Tomorrow".
When 20 million Americans are moving to Mexico, there will be no stopping them either.
If capital is going to flow freely, then labor must too. And vice versa. So, the cheap Chinese products that litter our lives and the Mexican picking lettuce are two sides of the same coin.
And really, you and I benefit from both. More than we pay.
I also think that we haven't ever welcomed legal immigratio
Walls won't make us free. Being afraid won't make us free. Living a selfish life, won't make us free. And
I want to be free.
And I am willing to work, change, listen and evolve to ensure freedom for everyone.
All ILLEGALS should be deported! I don't care which country they came from. All ILLEGALS had a chance to come to our country LEGALLY and they chose not to. Along with deportation and securing the border we also need to HEAVILY fine those who hire ILLEGALS and return to the original intent of the 14th amendment and do away with anchor babies. We spend BILLIONS to educate and provide health care for ILLEGALS. We need to use this money on our own citizens! Mr. Berry why don't you and Ms. Lafsky spend your time and effort on making changes in the countries that are sending their poor to our country? Why don't you do something about that? We have problems in our own country that we need to take care of. Instead of spending BILLIONS to provide health care for citizens of other nations we neeed to spend these BILLIONS on our own citizens. Let's hold those other countries accountable for their citizens.
Three questions:
What color are you?
How many strawberries, lettuce or almonds have you picked professionally in your life?
What should be done with the 1 million Iraqi illegal aliens in Jordan and Syria?
I bet the answer is: 1) white, 2) none and 3) why should I care, the U.S. isn't responsible for their migration either.
Well, the humanitarian crisis in the middle east parallels the situation here in the U.S., vis-a-vis, human migration. Central America and Mexico have been controlled by oligarchies propped up by U.S. corporations. The inequity in wealth, opportunity and quality of life for people "south of the border" is related to the Iraq War refugee population.
Our consumption of bananas, fruits and now ethanol drives the corporate control of Central America. The same with oil.
I have one more question: What lengths would you go to to feed your children?
Would you walk across countries, risk death to cross a border and then work in back-breaking jobs to earn a meager living, which you would have to sacrifice to send to your children back home? Would you live with 10 others in a room to save your kids?
Because that's what many of the "illegals" are doing.
Frankly, they are exactly what the Statue of Liberty calls to: "Give us your poor, your tired, your huddled masses longing to be free..."
Do we need to change that text?
How about: "Give us your monied, your privileged, yearning to shop in NYC..."*
*requires exorbitant filing and attorney's fees.
Our immigrant history is one of the things that makes us strong: the Irish, the Chinese, the Africans..
And now, so are the Hispanics.
We should welcome these people. If you can get as far as the Texas border, having walked across Mexico, you are pretty determined, strong and creative.
Just the people we need to rebuild this country today.
Did your people apply to come here? No, they just came. Built a life. Forged a nation.
It's the same today.
How about
(1) They work to change their own country
(2) Exhibit some drive and start their own business in their own country
(3) Don't breed 'em if they can't feed 'em
I don't have a problem with anyone who comes here LEGALLY. The ILLEGALS are the ones that need to go!
webweaver - Though seemingly every other comment here has sprung from a foamy-mouthed authoritarian racist nutjob without the slightest concern for the human factors you're talking about...I DO understand and absolutely agree with what you've said.
And even putting those human factors, the matter of empathy and of common humanity, aside (because the nativists & closet white supremacists are little moved by that kind of thing): Just look closely at the economics. People are so busy sucking up nonsense from tabloids & garbage tee-vee (Lou Dobbs), and mouthing the racist, cynical propaganda of the likes of political operators like Lee Atwater & Karl Rove, and worst of all cuddling up to their pet anecdotal "evidence" of immigrants bleeding our system, that the actual economic data doesn't register.
Working class whites - the shills of the corporate, super-rich GOP - have been stroked so effectively along their prejudices and irrational fears of "foreigners" that they can't even remember how to count: How much does it cost you, and our country, when Wal-Mart strongarms manufacturers to produce goods in China, and then keeps down import fees at U.S. ports? How much does it cost us when Haliburton charges our government (using your tax dollars!) a premium to feed our troops stale food, and to wash laundry at $100/bag? Trillions of dollars are bled away through corruption & fraud, and these same corporations escape paying their proper tax burden.
Keep blaming the poor, the "Mexicans" or "illegals" (call 'em whatever, because you don't know them, and know nothing about them that hasn't been spoon-fed to your lazy ass by rich TV anchors/"p
As an HR manager I had to check ID's. Lots of ID's. Then I had to decide if they passed scrutiny and if another reasonable person would believe they were legit. My definition of reasonable and another person's definition of reasonable might be very different. It was a weird paranoia for someone who once celebrated the fact that Americans didn't have to carry papers like those who lived under the horror of communist Russia.
Currently, I do not have a legitimate ID. I'm not working and probably won't be in the forseeable future. Health issues are keeping me home. But, that isn't going to keep the necessity of state issued papers away for much longer. I am afraid that soon one will have to have papers in order to receive most any kind of goods or services. It's going to be great for the underground economy. Which may be a good thing. Get it well established now so that when Rome gets around to falling there will be a way for some of us to survive.
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