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Tim Berry

Tim Berry

Posted March 5, 2009 | 05:12 PM (EST)

Bad Apples Get Loud in the Crowd


What a shame. The wisdom of crowds is a good idea. User reviews is another good idea. You click and then read. There's reassurance of good reviews. How many times have you been influenced by reviewers' stars for one product or another. And lately also for services (as in Google maps, linked to reviews for services like TV installation and plumbing).  It's nice, except for the bad apples in the crowd. Sour grapes. Sweet lemons.

Sour Grapes

If you use reviews at all, you recognize them. Using the review site for revenge. "You'll be sorry you treated me badly." The lurking competitors are bad; the extortionists are bad. Most of them inadvertently make it too obvious, but the worst of them do it too well. They pollute the review sites. 

  • One of my favorites was the local restaurant review that was all thumbs down. The reviewer shares that they refused to serve her because they said she was drunk and unruly. Hmmm ... do we see two sides to that story?
  • The gas dryer review spews venom about the product. Read closer: it was written the day the installer failed to show up. As in, before using the product.
  • The bad auto review hates the dealer; not the car.
  • QuickBooks (bookkeeping software) reviews are a good example. A lot of hatred there, far more than the software deserves. Everybody hates the accounting software they use, regardless of the brand. And no, I don't work for Intuit, and no, they don't pay me to say that. It's just a good example.
  • The worst of it: reviews by competitors. To stick with the QuickBooks example, people reviewing QuickBooks who are really plugging their own competing software. People reviewing one book to plug their own. People reviewing restaurants who own or work for competing restaurants.

Just in case it isn't obvious, think about this one: people who threaten other people with bad reviews. If you don't add that other service for free, I'm going to trash you on the web. It happens, believe me. The extortionists.

Sweet Lemons

You can usually spot them: reviews on review sites by employees, consultants, marketers of the product. For me, when there's only one or two reviews on a site, I'm suspicious.

Can't Touch That

Review sites can't deal with these bad apples. Earlier this week the New York Times published this piece about Yelp. Vendors want due process, error checking, protection against competitors and such. I've seen that before, about Amazon.com. Well, to be honest, my company has been victimized by competitors and extortionists on Amazon.com. 

Legally, practically, the review sites don't dare touch even the most obviously spurious and malicious reviews. It's one of those legal areas that are either black or white, with no in-between: as soon as you change a single review, then you're editing, and you become responsible for all of them. If you never touch a review, as a hosting site, then you're not responsible for any review's content. I'm not an attorney, so check me on this, but that's the way it was explained to me by somebody who should know. On the other hand, the New York Times story indicates Yelp uses some spam filtering, but it also lets advertisers put better reviews on top of the listings, which sounds a lot like editing to me.

Yelp's lack of transparency does not affect its relationship with businesses alone. It also risks eroding users' trust in the site. Eric Kingery, an engineer and frequent Yelp user in Chicago, discovered that a review he had written of a jeweler disappeared. "It just makes me suspicious of the impartiality," he said. "It is a very useful service, but this kind of harms the integrity of the site."

So it's damned if you do, damned if you don't, and in the meantime, those of us who would like to draw on wisdom of crowds have to go with so much caution that it's rarely worth it. These days I only look at reviews when there are a bunch of them, 25, 50 or more, so that the bad apples don't distort the broad picture.

But Could They, Should They, In the Future?

I was about to write "there ought to  be a law." However, on reflection, never mind. Bad idea. But is it perhaps too much to hope for a court case or ruling that eases up on the legal liability for weeding out some of the most obviously erroneous or self-serving reviews?

Maybe at least an honor code and ethics attempt, asking people to at least identify themselves confidentially to the hosting site, so they take responsibility somewhere. It's not a big identity theft or spammer email problem to do that; most blogs do it routinely. 

Commerce isn't Free Speech

Free speech is about politics, not printer drivers or restaurants. And we're not talking about government entities limiting speech, we're talking about review sites taking out the trash. I wish that the whole free speech thing weren't such a slippery slope.

However, the courts do say that free speech doesn't include shouting fire in a crowded theater (dangerous) or distributing commercial leaflets in a crowded theater (commerce). So maybe there's hope for review sites getting a little tiny bit of slack on this, some time in the future.

And, by the way, if you're reviewing this post, give it five stars. Please.

What a shame. The wisdom of crowds is a good idea. User reviews is another good idea. You click and then read. There's reassurance of good reviews. How many times have you been influenced by reviewers...
What a shame. The wisdom of crowds is a good idea. User reviews is another good idea. You click and then read. There's reassurance of good reviews. How many times have you been influenced by reviewers...
 
 
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07:14 PM on 03/06/2009
Perhaps the "Terms of Use" for posting reviews could include a paragraph about not falsifying information, or posting confabulations. That way, third party review sites could take down false reviews without opening themselves up to editorial liability because it would be a contract violation. (Burden of proof would be on the reviewee, but still...)

That would protect a vendor, at least from the inherently stupid posters (e.g. when the review can be proven to be logically inconsistent on its own merits, like complaining about the performance of a dryer that has not yet been installed). It would also protect the anonymity of those who worry about such things. One other commenter is correct that people are more civil when they attach their name to a complaint, but anonymity is important when an individual is posting a legitimate complaint against a large and powerful corporation.

Seriously, how many of us would feel safe using your real name to post a complaint to a user forum at say, IRS.gov, (or, for that matter, microsoft.com). ESPECIALLY if you are involved in an ongoing dispute that you think other consumers should be made aware of?
01:31 PM on 03/06/2009
A great example of this are the reviews on Amazon for business books advertised on the radio and on late night TV, like those by Robert Allen. One name after another gives a brief review of five stars, but the names of the reviewers turn out to be the same names as the characters in 1970's situation comedies. Coincidence? I think not.

Also, many bogus reviewers have first and last names with the same initials, like:
Allen Able, Bob Bonk, Charlie Cook, David Daniels, Ed Edwards, Frank Farley, George Gleason, Harry Haller, Ivy indiana, Jack Jones, Karyn Kellogg, Linda Larry, Michael Michaels, Neil Norman, Olive Oyl, Peter Pan, Quentin Quisp, Robert Reich, Sam Spade, Tommy Tune, Ursula Uggams, Vickie Viceroy, Xavier Xin, Yolanda Ying, and Zeke Zombroski.

I got carried away and figured I might as well do the whole alphabet.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
yodaveg
Ride si sapis
11:16 AM on 03/06/2009
The problem is anonymity. Hiding behind an alias, I can say anything I want about you. Thus does the Internet make cowards of us all.

The only solution is to put our names behind our words.

Dave Goldenberg
Ridgefield, CT
05:14 PM on 03/06/2009
Dave, you nailed it. Services like Facebook Connect allow folks to login to third party sites using their real, Facebook identity. Folks tend to tone it down when there real reputation is on the line.
10:51 AM on 03/06/2009
5 STARS! A++++++++++++++ GREAT WRITER! WILL DEFINITLY READ AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Uh, yeah.

In some ways, you get what you (don't) pay for. I read the free on-line reviews for products. I also use for fee resources like Consumer Reports and Angie's List.

Consumer Reports is helpful, but you have to read their testing methodology to understand what the ratings and reviews mean. Some time the CR reviewer will have a bug up their nose about something that is totally irrelevant to your situation.

Angie's List has been very useful, especially since vendors can respond to the reviews that people post. it's worth the $15 per month just to read the sometimes hilarious complaints and the responses from the vendors. Since Angie's is not free, and postings are tied to a paid account, it limits the number of sweet lemon reviews as well.

-*Zortag*-
10:41 AM on 03/06/2009
Tim certainly gets five stars from me! As an owner of a small lodging establishment, we have been the victim of extortioners who demanded over $500 to not write reviews on every travel site they could find. We refused to pay. Fortunately Trip Advisor has integrity and deleted the false review, but Yahoo Travel turned a deaf ear. Even though this incident happened months ago, we still spend a great deal of time checking review sites just to be sure the public doesn't see a review that has not a shred of truth in it. Hopefully internet users are becoming savvy enough to sort through the reviews and realize that when an establishment has 25 five star reviews and one that trashes the place, it is the reviewer who has a problem and not the business.
Thanks Tim!
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08:36 AM on 03/06/2009
Five Stars
02:23 AM on 03/06/2009
Beware of hotel reviews. You need to read them all to get an idea of what a hotel is like. I've read several reviews of very nice hotels with the subject line "Bedbugs" usually in all caps and with 5-10 exclamation points, and reading between the lines, it's clear these get submitted by, for example, hotel guests who were asked to pipe down when partying at 4 a.m. Like the person cited who dissed a dryer because the delivery was late, it's astomishing that anyone would actually try to ruin someone's business on a whim. I find it all pretty depressing, to be honest. It's the same with political sites--why would I, as a Democrat, want to waste my time spewing venom on rightwing sites? One of the problems with the internet is that it really does make people think it's all about "me." Oh, dear, I'm getting that "end of Western civilization" feeling....