The Real Divide We Should Be Focused On...

Red states or blue states, superdelegates or pledged delegates, surrogates or campaign staff, these are the divides that are currently consuming the discussion in America. However, the events of the past two weeks should remind us of another divide with real implications for America's future security that we should be focused on: the divide between the United States and the Muslim world.

Al Qaeda reminded us in the past several days that despite our best efforts, they are continuing to communicate with the Muslim world. Just this week, Al Qaeda's #2, Ayman al-Zawahiri, released a tape calling for attacks on Jewish and American targets because of events in the Gaza Strip. And Bin Laden himself released two tapes last week exploiting event in Gaza, as well, and threatening attacks on the EU.

Nearly seven years after 9/11, Al Qaeda is continuing its conversation with the Muslim world. Are we engaging in a similar conversation? Unfortunately, and to the detriment of our national security, it appears that we are not. A far-reaching poll recently done by the Gallup organization shows that America is still failing to communicate with the Muslim world and failing to understand their true concerns. Unfavorable views of the United States are growing in strategically important countries like Jordan and Turkey [PDF].

The Muslim world has as much stake as the United States in defeating violent extremism, and we must bridge this communication gap. The 9/11 Commission talked about engaging the struggle of ideas [PDF] as a key part of the war on terror. We talked about the need to find common ground with the Muslim world, to talk about an agenda of opportunity, and to develop a common strategy for defeating terrorism.

Our communication gap with the Muslim world is one we cannot afford to let Al Qaeda fill as they have tried to do over that past few weeks. It is a divide we must address -- in the 2008 presidential election, which has piqued worldwide interest like never before, and beyond.

Comments

[bobo209]

The most wonderful thing of all is that the distinguished Lutheran and Calvinist theologians who belong to our order really believe that they see in it the true and genuine sense of Christian religion. O mortal man, is there nothing you cannot be made to believe."
He went on to write, "The true purpose of the order was to rule the world. To achieve this it was necessary for the order to destroy all religions, overthrow all governments and abolish private property . . . The strength of our order lies in its concealment, let it never appear in any place in its own name, but always covered by another name, and another occupation."

..Adam Weishaupt, the founder of the Illuminati, circa 1776

[rudiy]

I read many Arab and ME publications. Most are anti American and anti West. This is what most Muslims in the ME see and believe. Those who say it is our one sided approach in favor of Israel, ask themselves why is it alright for the Muslim countries have a one sided approach against Israel and if you read the publications, Jews in general. Like Hitler, to consoidate the leaders political power they need a so called common enemy. Have the Muslims explain why 850,000 Jews were expelled form Arab countries and most Christians have left. It has nothing to do only with the west, it is the religious intolerence and totally biased news. Reading the comments here you can see some writers think all problems in the Muslim world are caused by the west and anything they do is excusable.

[Durango]

How do we convince that small farmer in Upper Egypt that Osama Bin Ladin's view of Islam is incorrect?

How do we convince that engineering student in Damascus that the United States and the western world is not a threat?

How do we encourage a growing segment of the Iranian people that they should establish a more modern liberal democracy in their country?

By occupying a (mostly) Islamic country in the center of the Islamic world for 100 years? By engaging in colonialism, an idea that died sometime in the latter half of the 20th Century?

By fighting the idea of nationalism, the most powerful political doctrine of the past century and allowing the Islamic fundamentalist s the opportunity to use that nationalism to further their goals?

We didn't learn a damn thing in Viet Nam where, by engaging in Neo-Colonialism we reinforced the Vietnamese communists by sending an army of occupation into that country to fight communism. Thus giving the communists the opportunity claim to nationalism for their cause.

And here we go doing the exact same thing except in a Muslim nation

.For far too long stupidity has been the corner stone of US policy.

[Jabalpur]

There is no leadership in the sane Muslim world who is willing to confront the Islamist. There is no Muslim leader as popular as Bin Ladin. It is futile to talk to the current Muslim leadership of the world, when in their hearts and mind they admire Bin Ladin and his cohorts. As long as this attitude prevails there can be no real dialogue between the Muslims and rest of the world. The current attitude is that they are the downtrodden by the rest of the world ,and must fight and kill the rest of the world. They believe that their cause is right and the only solution is to eliminate the rest of the world or convert all of them to Muslims. They believe that their religious and political document the Shiara, written in the medivial ages, is the only true document ,and every law in the world should be superseeded by it. It is very difficult to hold conversation with anyone who has this attitude. Confrontation to the Islamist is the only solution.

[Durango]

Osama Bin Ladin was driven to the ends of the earth, because that is quite literally what Afghanistan was. He had NO SUPPORT from any government of the Islamic world, except for the Taliban.

He got thrown out of the Sudan, who offered to turn him over to the USA.

But the bigger point is: How do you propose to win a religious war being waged within Islam? By killing or subjugating all the Muslims of the world?

That was tried. It was called the Crusades. And we are still paying the price for that one.

[noamjunior]

your sweeping and bigoted generalizations of Islam and it's followers shows a close mindedness unswilling to deal with facts that contradict your limited and mistaken world view.
here's hoping you mature enough to see the hateful ignorance in the diatraibe you posted

[Berettasskeeter]

What was the bigoted generalization of Islam in his comment? I don't see it at all. Nor do I see the hateful ignorance you mention. Can you please point it out specifically?
Semper fi

[whimsicalpig]

If youwanta decent and realistic explanation about this communication gap I would refer you to an article in the WEd 03/26 NYT about Anthony Pagden's discourse on the 2500 year old difference between western and eastern cultures.

while it is very revealing, it is also depressing, because it literally says, we are 2 separate cultures with very little hope of finding commonality.

If theincompetent planners of bush's disaster had been even the most slightly aware of this cultural obyss, a war to being democracy to the east would have been rejected from the get-go.

to bad the guys in charge aren't truely well educated in anything beyond the acquisition of power and the mainenance of wealth.

[oracle99]

Muslim extremism might now be extinct if America would leave the Middle East and quit trying to steal things that don't belong to us ie the Iraqi oil reserves. Would we want another country coming here killing out citizens and destroying out country? It's lunacy that the Hawks can't see that is the reason for high oil prices.

[Berettasskeeter]

Oil prices are high because oil is sold in an auction-type environment. Bidders pump up the prices of oil based on their perceptions of world demand. OPEC doesn't have to set prices. Please be accurate.
Semper fi

[bobo209]

Crimes of christian and jewish world..

Number Of Iraqis Slaughtered In U.S. War On Iraq "1,193,480"




Cost of U.S. War and Occupation of Iraq

$505,547,518,807


If radical Islam, with which these experts tell us we should be at war, encompasses all those who are not enamoured of secular society, and who espouse a vision of their societies grounded in the values of Islam, then these experts are advocating a war with Islam - because Islam is the vision for their future favoured by many Muslims.

Mainstream Islamists are indeed challenging western secular and materialist values, and many do believe that western thinking is flawed - that the desires and appetites of man have been reified into representing man himself. It is time to re-establish values that go beyond "desires and wants", they argue.

Many Islamists also reject the western narrative of history and its projection of inevitable "progress" towards a secular modernity; they reject the western view of power-relationships within societies and between societies; they reject individualism as the litmus of progress in society; and, above all, they reject the west's assumption that its empirical approach lends unassailability and objective rationality to its thinking - and universality to its social models.

People may, or may not, agree, but the point is that this is a dispute about ideas, about the nature of society, and about equity in an emerging global order. If western discourse cannot step beyond the enemy that it has created, these ideas cannot be heard -

[hyjanks]

Having read many parts of the Bible and the Koran, I really don't understand the friction between Christians and Muslims. Both books are chock full of violence directed mainly at infidels but also at believers who stray from the flock (See! They both even have sheep mentioned on several pages!).
'Seems to me that since both religions have incredibly violent histories (with the Muslims currently holding the title of the most vicious religion in contemporary terms), they should combine forces to erradicate all atheists and other non-believers--you know, the ones who are REALLY the cause of all the world's problems, past and present.
Once Harris, Dawkins and their ilk are eliminated, then the world's two greatest religions can . . . wait a minute! . . . here we are back at square one dealing with this infidels stuff.
Forget it. Let's just keep on thinking that one day both religions will adhere to their "peace-loving" agenda as stipulated in their respective holy books and tomorrow we will go hand in hand toward a kind, considerate world of everlasting peace and tranquility.
Oh! And Hillary REALLY did dodge all of those bullets in Bosnia, John Mc"Cane" voted against his own anti-torture Senate bill because of a misplaced coma, and Dick Cheney really does care about the 4000 dead soldiers in Iraq.

[Berettasskeeter]

You're mixing oranges and apples, you know!? The Bible's Old Testament, which Jesus came to eliminate, did have the violence you mention. The New Testament talks to God's love for us and the love He wishes us to have for each other.
The Koran, on the other hand, is currently full of hatred, murder, mayhem, deceit, rapine, etc. You really need to get your facts straight.
Semper fi

[Guitarsandmore]

The divide we should be paying attention to:

Present policies, with continued construction of coal-fired power plants without CO2 capture, suggest that decision-makers do not appreciate the gravity of the situation. [Note to Hansen et al: That is the understatement of the year.] We must begin to move now toward the era beyond fossil fuels. Continued growth of greenhouse gas emissions, for just another decade, practically eliminates the possibility of near-term return of atmospheric composition beneath the tipping level for catastrophic effects.

[ww]

Tim,

You and the others on the 9.11 Commission completely failed the American people. Apparatchiks, one and all. As such, and though I agree with the general premise of your piece here, you should be roundly ignored and cast into the dustbin of history. Your work on the commission has undone any and all good works previously done by you, and rightfully earned you nothing but rebuke. Simply, you are not trustworthy.

[noamjunior]

Agreed- If you did your job on the 9-11 commision, Bush wouldn't have even been president to illegally invade Iraq- he would have been impeached for his obvious failure to "protect the US from enemeis, foriegn and domestic" as his oath requires.

[Rog49Thomas]

If one wants to solve a problem, the prerequisite is cold hard honesty.

Simply put, our foreign policy is the cause of the major part of our problem in the Middle East. It"s the policy, stupid, not that we are ineffective communicators.

We are perceived by large segments of the Arab world as pursuing policies fundamentally at odds with their national aspirations and dignity. There are three major complaints. First, what is seen as unconditional uncritical support for Israel. Second, that our secondary interest in the area is securing oil. And that to promote these first two priorities we (a) prop up the local oppression and corruption of various tinpot dictators and sheikhly kleptocrats and (b) launch or support unneeded wars.

Another issue is that the Arab side suffers from political immaturity save for some very rare exceptions. As well, for many of the governments there, the sole national security priority is the elite retaining power. Or maintaining its opportunities to loot the national patrimony. To paraphrase one very astute observer of the area: when it comes to a choice between taking care of the people or keeping the throne, the choice is always keeping the throne. There is also the impact of the psychological baggage of colonization.

[moderationsmuse]

Our support for Isreal serves our interests -- in terms of shared culture, in regard to Isreal's being a democracy, in terms of the debt owed to Jews on the part of the West after the Holocaust.
Oil is what the Middle East has to sell. It has caused enormous income disparities in the Middle East because of THEIR system.
Third, which you have not mentioned, but which deeply offends the Arab world is the role of women in Western society. Why this should have become so threatening to them now arises from the exportation of Western culture around the world: our movies, television, the internet in their faces. It is not accidental that women are covered up in Arab society and that they have no political rights. The two things are parts of the same larger religio-political system.
We cannot turn our backs on Isreal, our important American ally. We cannot just stop using oil (certainly not in the short term). And we are not going to stop being a pluralistic and democratic society. We have free speech, rule under law, the ideal of individual rights and liberties. And thus Western women don't wear scarves and have the right to vote (or to run for the highest leadership offices themselves) and cartoonists can portray the unfortunate Islamic prophet.
That Muslims are not likely to give up these differences is precisely what makes the "winning of hearts and minds" an almost impossible task.

[nohat]

The Muslim world has as much stake as the United States in defeating violent extremism, and we must bridge this communication gap.......We talked about the need to find common ground with the Muslim world, to talk about an agenda of opportunity, and to develop a common strategy for defeating terrorism.
***************************************************

Tim Roemer needs to go live in a country where the muslims have taken over, Holland would be a good one. Or the UK. It always starts with talking. Then they want more. And more and more...here in the UK, after 'talking 'to us, they want elements of Sharia Law introduced. The Muslim Council of Britain told Blair that being 'more accomodating to the muslims in Britain would prevent more British body parts ending up on the street.' Yes. And Tony fell for it and Gordon Brown has fallen for it. We are not even allowed to speak against muslims, not in public. Do it and you are accused of being 'islamaphobic', if you are lucky---you can be arrested if your remarks stir up 'racial hatred'. Of course, the muslims can march with signs that read 'Kill Britains', and they just get slapped on the hand. Roemer doesn't know what he's talking about. And they don't have as much interest in defeating violent extremism as we do, they just let it flourish and pretend it bothers them. It serves their interests just fine--see above in this post, what the m.council of Britain told Blair.

[POINT84]

The "Muslim world" ...7 years later and some of us still haven't learned shit

[indypete]

Talk to the muslims? Tain't the way we do things around here, pardner... we lets our six-guns do the talkin'!

[ChiGuy]

As long as Republicans - and those even farther right - continue "the politics of fear" as Kristol called it, the average American will never trust Muslims in this country or abroad.

The term, fear-mongering, might well be over used, but it's apropos.

[Berettasskeeter]

What nonsense. The fact that Barack Obama went to school in Indonesia for a few of his young years no more qualifies him to discuss Islam than that my son lived and went to school in Japan for 3 of his young years qualifies him to discuss Shinto, or the Asian problems. This is pure sophistry, and totally meaningless. Let's let the grownups manage this.
Semper fi

[Tane]

What it does is provide the Muslim leaders with a sense of familiarity and affiliation. They would likely believe that he might be more willing to listen openly to their point of view, and not harbor racist feelings towards them. It gives them common ground to begin from. It is visceral rather than political or intellectual. Remember, Barack Obama's mother was well loved in Indonesia and her support and understanding of their culture as an anthropologist was well respected. Her work in the country was a passion for her and she undoubtedly shared that with her son and exposed him to it.

[Berettasskeeter]

You know, there is a tiny portion of truth to what you say. All the years I spent in Japan got me in the door with taxi drivers, merchants, military folks, etc. But that's all it did. And we're talking here about the Presidency, not a fellow on the street.
That said, I think my point stands. I'm not sure why you think he, or they, may otherwise have racist feelings toward each other, or how his time there ameliorates that possibility. We are perceived by how we act and speak, not whether we spent a few years in a country.
By the way, I can't find anything about his mother being an anthropoligist, loved and respected in Indonesia. Do you have a thread for that?
Semper fi

[desthmoneses]

I think we here in the U.S. need to find new ways to bring peace and justice to our own counrty and then lead other countries by example. It wasn't so long ago when nations around the world were inspired by the U.S. and sought to emulate us. I think when we restore our own peace and happiness other nations will be more than willing to hear what we have to say, and on a side note maybe we need to begin listening to countries that have achieved peace and harmony.

[Berettasskeeter]

Which countries would that be? I can't think of a single one!
Semper fi

[dadw5boys]

RESPECT IS WHERE THE FOCUS SHOULD BE!!!!

Simple respect for any human being to worship as they please.

In the end we are all alone with our God dealing with our life spend here or not.

Respect for a persons right to believe as they want and live as they want if they do not harm others.

[BigSid]

What do you do when they do harm others?

[Yasmine]

THE best way to get the moslems world together is to do what OBAMA wants and call a regional summit with all countries surrounding Iraq and sit together with GOOD WILL to make others also share in the project IRAQ.

[shp]

How do you "make" others also share in the project? What kind of "good will" are we talking about? Giving them money? Shipping jobs to them? Don't you think if the other countries were really interested in their own region they would make the first move? Or is it better for them to just let this drag out ?

[Durango]

How could it possibly be good for Iran, Syria or Saudi Arabia to have that catstrofuck going on at their borders? How would we feel about anything similar happening in Mexico, or Canada?

On the other hand every country in the Middle East had a vested interest in seeing the Bush Doctrine fail. It is a threat to the national sovereignty of every other nation on earth.

Get rid of Bush/Cheney and their Neo-Colonialism and you see a remarkable willingness of other coutnries to talk.

[Berettasskeeter]

"Get rid of Bush/Cheney and their Neo-Colonialism and you see a remarkable willingness of other coutnries to talk."
Can you point to any modern examples of this?
Semper fi

[Yasmine]

I agree that all islamic governments/countries share the same dislike that America has to WIPE OUT Al-Qaeda..
Not only are they still alive and well , but worse yet
Al-QAEDA has already succeeded in CHANGING OUR LIVES for the worse. Anyone flying today can see the damage done to us as a people. let alone other matters.
This might have been prevented if we had not squandered the good will of the whole world ( WE ARE ALL AMERICANS ;le Monde) and stayed in AFGHANESTAN to make it into .......a SHOWCASE for DEMOCRACY or what America is capable of doing in Nation BUILDING.

[Plowboy]

Well, I think that both grendl and colleen2 have good points. But if we are to address any issue effectively, we need an intelligent leader who can make it happen. Barack understands both. He lived in Indonesia fow a few years as a grade school boy. He has a half Indonesian sister. He has familial connections in Indonesia. So he must have more understanding of Indonesian culture than most. And Indonesia is the countyry with the largest Muslim population. That gives him a leg up in diplomacy with the Islamic world.
He is a (half)Black man raised mainly by his white mother and her white parents. Hence he understands the White culture he was raised in. He understands the Black culture his wife and so many of his friends were raised in, and he has lived in. And being a good man he can bridge those divides --- if he gets the chance and the help he needs.

Of course, there are those with other agendas who will fight him tooth and nail. So far, however, in his campaign he has overcome them. So it seems that he is a good bet. Possibly as good as any we have and better than the others we are being offered.

[cognate]

The real issue is that most Americans are clueless about legitimate Muslim grievances against Western decades-long meddling --usually violent-- in the Middle East.

They don't hate us for our freedoms nor do they especially care to turn us into Muslims. They do hate us for our one-sided support of Israel, a country established by the Western powers on what Muslims consider to be their land. Their other grievances are about Western support for corrupt autocratic regimes such as Saudi Arabia now, Saddam Hussein (yes, that one!) in the 1980's and the shah of Iran in the 1950's through '70s.

[Berettasskeeter]

Would you accept, then, that the opposite view has the same credibility? The muslims violently overthrew the governments of every country that they could, including Egypt, Byzantium, Spain, the northern African countries, eastern Europe. Not to mention their support, both material and moral, of Hitler's Nazi regime! So, our grievances against them for their behavior on what we consider to be our land is equally valid? Your argument, and all the pro-Muslim arguments, are false unless they acknowledge these facts as well. Once that is accomplished, we can discuss the minutiae.
Semper fi