iPhone app iPad app Android phone app Android tablet app More

Featuring fresh takes and real-time analysis from HuffPost's signature lineup of contributors
Timothy D. Slekar

GET UPDATES FROM Timothy D. Slekar
 

Deforming the Graduate Degree

Posted: 06/25/11 12:51 PM ET

"I actually don't want qualified teachers [ones with graduate degrees] in the classroom. I want highly effective teachers [test score manipulators] in the classroom." -- John Deasy, LAUSD Superintendent
The Los Angeles Unified School District (LAUSD) should stop compensating teachers for completing graduate-level coursework, according to a new report released by the National Council on Teacher Quality (NCTQ)... While many industries award bigger salaries to workers who have completed higher levels of education, there is no proven correlation between completing graduate classes and being a highly effective teacher. -- Huffington Post


Who knew that when teachers earn graduate degrees there is no guarantee that their students' test scores will go up? And according to NCTQ, this is an "evidence based" finding. In other words, public schools should not use taxpayers' money to reimburse teachers for pursuing a graduate degree. It's just not worth the money when the correlation coefficient is so low. Gerald Bracey we need you now!

For those that forgot stat 101, correlation does not mean causation. Example: If you take a sample of people involved in automobile accidents on their way to work and ask the sample if they had breakfast and then checked the correlation between eating breakfast and automobile accidents -- it would be through the roof. But what does this mean? Nothing from a cause and effect stand point. Eating breakfast does not cause car accidents -- period. Remember, correlation does not mean causation. However, this simple statistical rule doesn't seem to matter to the reformers. Remember, the reformers actually want to degrade the profession of teaching and dismantle public schools.

How about a small dose of reality? Graduate degrees were not designed to improve test scores. Back when we believed education was supposed to help children understand their world and learn how to thrive in an imperfect democracy, we also believed that a teacher who earned a graduate degree would be better prepared to serve this purpose. Now that the reformers have somehow convinced the public that schools are failing and that only higher test scores and teachers that are capable of elevating test scores are of value, of course that must mean that graduate degrees are a waste of "limited" resources.

But wait! What about the latest research that demonstrates high test scores are probably more of an indicator that children are actually losing ground educationally?

"So what?" I imagine the reformers, LAUSD and the NCTQ saying. They all believe in standardized tests and a heavy test-prep focus in classrooms. It allows them to blame teachers for failing to bring up test scores and it allows them to push policy positions that will dismantle public education in America.

Also, as long as a simple reliance on standardized test scores dominates discussions of teacher effectiveness, the reformers will make so-called "evidence-based" claims that graduate degrees are a waste of money and continue to push an anti-teacher narrative. This narrative de-professionalizes teaching, reduces wages, and eventually turns teaching into low skilled labor. Also, John Thompson recently revealed, NCTQ's use of sketchy "evidence" in producing the report that LAUSD is using to de-fund graduate degrees for teachers.


A powerful graduate degree provides time for deep reflection about issues such as diversity, ELLs, and the socio-economic status of children. It pushes a teacher to examine the different teaching and learning contexts. This professional degree was never intended to bring up test scores. However, I have a feeling that the real reason the reformers want to do away with graduate degrees has more to do with the fact that if done well, a graduate degree might actually help teachers understand the teacher de-professionalization narrative and provide them with the intellectual tools needed to expose and organize in an effort to change the narrative. And, maybe even more horrible, they might read something from Gerald Bracey or worse -- Diane Ravitch.

In summary, graduate degrees and test scores don't correlate highly -- so what?

 

Follow Timothy D. Slekar on Twitter: www.twitter.com/slekar

"I actually don't want qualified teachers [ones with graduate degrees] in the classroom. I want highly effective teachers [test score manipulators] in the classroom." -- John Deasy, LAUSD Superintende...
"I actually don't want qualified teachers [ones with graduate degrees] in the classroom. I want highly effective teachers [test score manipulators] in the classroom." -- John Deasy, LAUSD Superintende...
 
 
  • Comments
  • 127
  • Pending Comments
  • 0
  • View FAQ
Comments are closed for this entry
View All
Favorites
Bloggers
Recency  | 
Popularity
Page: 1 2  Next ›  Last »  (2 total)
04:41 PM on 07/03/2011
Obviously you haven't read the studies that demonstrate that graduate degrees are not correlated with increased student achievement. Your analogy about correlation isn't causation but studies show that grad degrees don't matter WHILE controlling for other factors. What will improve student achievement and learning is more comprehensive professional development that actually focuses on instruction in the classroom.

So what? The whole purpose of spending money to help teachers obtain masters degrees was done with the intention and goal of providing better teachers in the classroom and improving student achievement. If getting a grad degree doesn't do that, then the program isn't achieving its aims or purpose. We should be focusing on how we can help teachers get better at their craft in the classroom with the money we are spending to send them to grad school.

While teachers may be improving themselves by getting a grad degree, that isn't helping the students. Our focus MUST be on what's best for the students not the adults.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
colred
07:33 PM on 06/29/2011
I teach business and my masters is in theatre (I've also taught that after having worked professionally). I can honestly say that my masters degree, even though it is in a different field, has helped me be a better teacher. Sometimes I wonder if it is so helpful because it is in a different field. It probably has to do with what the author suggests--it dug deeply into a subject. It taught me how to learn deeply, and therefore, I can teach my students how to learn deeply.
This user has chosen to opt out of the Badges program
photo
GlennWatson
Two million fans
09:59 AM on 06/28/2011
Graduate degrees in real subjects are useful. Graduate degrees in education are useless.

Even better would be to help teachers pay for additional undergraduate classes in the areas they teach.

Pay the teacher based on the grade they get. An A would be a free class. A B would get you 75% tuition. A C is only 50%. Anything less and the teacher pays the full cost of the class.

I recently paid for a freshman level class in economics after the principle asked me to teach it. The class was great. The cost to me was high but I thin my student really befitted from my increases knowledge. This is what economists call a positive externality.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
healthanalyst
Banned from commenting, so?
08:33 PM on 06/29/2011
The education degree is useless. They have to dumb down college courses to get the little darlings to pass.
photo
HUFFPOST BLOGGER
Timothy D. Slekar
Associate Professor of Teacher Education
10:01 PM on 06/29/2011
Evidence helps when you make negative sweeping generalizations. If you need me to dumb down this statement please ask.
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Mr Anonymous
Mumpsimus, I am not entertained!
11:28 PM on 06/29/2011
Education is not a real subject?
08:56 AM on 07/01/2011
Obviously, it is not in the US. After teaching abroad in several countries, I was astonished at the lack of respect shown for education and educators in the US. It told me much about why the US government is so shoddy and inept.
01:10 PM on 06/27/2011
You know the lack of correlation between graduate degrees and student test scores may also be the result of a lack of studies looking for the correlation.

However, I do understand and support the reliance on standardized test scores. They really are the best way to gauge what people know. Without them, you have 50 states with 50 different educational standards producing students that are somehow magically supposed to work together in the professional world.

I agree with the article though that test preparation is way out of hand and just learning how to score well on a test doesn't mean you actually know a lot. That is more of a failing of the tests themselves, not the concept of standardized testing.

The standardized test should be re-structured such that you can't just prep for them, you have to actually learn and understand the subject in its entirety. Then test scores really will reflect teacher performance and student knowledge. Easier said than done though I realize.
04:41 PM on 06/27/2011
I couldn't disagree more with your assertion that standardized test scores are the best way to gauge learning. Standardized tests can only test for certain things. Skills such as critical thinking, note taking, and research skills cannot be tested with a standardized test, and these are essential life skills. If you get teachers that do nothing but teach to the test, then students will lose out on learning these things that they will need in college.
10:08 PM on 06/27/2011
Your criticism is fair and I echoed some of the same sentiment in my post before, but you haven't offered any alternatives. If we remove standardized testing, then what? We can't have hundreds of thousands of teachers in 50 different states with 50 different educational standards handing out grades based on their own personal opinions with nothing to level set them. How can colleges and employers gauge how well a student is prepared? How can school districts gauge how well they are performing compared to other districts/states/countries? How can anything be compared/critiqued/reviewed/improved in a meaningful way without standardized testing? It is literally the only metric (other than class rank perhaps) that means anything.

I agree that teaching to the test defeats the whole point of even having the test in the first place. But there must be some way of reforming the standardized testing system rather than doing away with it.
photo
lcr999
scientist
09:12 AM on 06/30/2011
those things certainly can be tested on a standardized test, but not with the current multiple choice narrow tests. You need to make it impossible to teach to the test.
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Mr Anonymous
Mumpsimus, I am not entertained!
11:33 PM on 06/29/2011
I thought that multiple choice questions on tests were the lowest form of testing to check comprehension and knowledge. Isn't that mainly what standardized tests are, is a lot of multiple choice questions. Wouldn't it be better to check the students mastery of the subject through higher order thinking questions, but then that would take to much time and effort to track. So, let's do it the lazy way and multiple choice test them all the way through their education.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Bryan Morris
04:19 PM on 06/26/2011
The problem isn't the lack of accountability for teachers - That's total BS. The problem is the complete and total lack of accountability for students!

The Asian philosophy of education is simple: It is the teacher's responsibility to impart knowledge - It is the STUDENT'S responsibility to be receptive of that knowledge!

That's where we fall apart.
10:27 PM on 06/26/2011
That's the exact place we fall apart.

We also fall apart in the area of parent accountability. Teachers endure more scrutiny than the people who actually produced the children and are supposedly charged with rearing them to be decent, productive citizens. Go freaking figure....
This user has chosen to opt out of the Badges program
photo
CSNC
Living on the edge -- not taking too much space
12:21 AM on 06/27/2011
And the solutions are "relatively" simple, as we do not have to re-invent the wheel:

1) http://www.huffingtonpost.com/joel-shatzky/educating-for-democracy-f_b_883132.html

2) Including: "There are many other reasons besides good schooling that lead to academic success in Finland that are not comparable to the United States: an almost homogeneous ethnic population, a much smaller disparity in wealth between rich and poor, a more equitable system of school funding, and an excellent health and social welfare system for all. But certainly relying on the teacher, well-trained, highly selected, and autonomous in choosing the way they teach is an important element in achieving excellence in education. Generally, when someone admires another person or country for outstanding achievement, they try to emulate its practices. As far as Finland is concerned, we show our admiration by following the opposite of its example"

H
This user has chosen to opt out of the Badges program
photo
GlennWatson
Two million fans
01:13 PM on 06/27/2011
Fanned.
photo
HUFFPOST BLOGGER
Shaun Johnson
Teacher educator and former classroom teacher
02:40 PM on 06/26/2011
On the one hand, I don't really think that a graduate degree in education will thwart the influence of test-based education reform. I know plenty of teachers with graduate degrees who buy into it everyday. On the other hand, I don't understand why there is so much resistance to people getting more education. Talk about worthless: how about an MBA? Additionally, there are plenty of people out there who go to law school and don't intend to practice law. People go to school for numerous reasons, take multiple paths, and we should afford reasonable flexibility in terms of people fulfilling higher degrees. Again, fewer would go into teaching if, as an adult in the working world, could only transition by getting a second BA or BS. You need to give folks an opportunity to climb, to improve themselves as they seek higher education. What's the alternative?
07:38 AM on 06/27/2011
An assistant professor of elementary education calling an MBA worthless...that's rich. I know plenty of MBA's (including myself) who have significantly increased their income as a result of that worthless degree.
photo
HUFFPOST BLOGGER
Shaun Johnson
Teacher educator and former classroom teacher
05:00 PM on 06/27/2011
So, you're telling me that income is all that matters? That's, uh, rich, yeah. I'm not going to be rich, but I'm happy as hell, which I can't be sure is said by all those MBA-drones out there, wearing ties and rotting away in cubicles.
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Protocolor
空耳モード
12:08 PM on 06/28/2011
Actually, that says a lot more about the qualifications of those hiring candidates with MBAs than it does about the academic value of an MBA.
12:32 PM on 06/26/2011
So, I'm a bit confused. Correlation isn't evidence of causation. But, on the contrary, lack of correlation is evidence of causation? Since there's no evidence that a graduate degree produces better teachers, and because we know correlation isn't causation, that means that we know graduate degrees produce better teachers?

Again, what education program did you say you were in charge of, Timothy?
photo
HUFFPOST BLOGGER
Timothy D. Slekar
Associate Professor of Teacher Education
07:39 PM on 06/26/2011
Really? And you somehow convinced yourself that your inability to be witty is, ah, witty? Need more bubble sheets?
03:40 PM on 06/29/2011
So that's how you respond to someone pointing out the obvious logical flaws in your attempt to point out someone else's logical flaws? And you needed a dissertation to do that?

You were the one who brought up that correlation doesn't equal causation when your critics pointed out that graduate degrees don't improve student test scores.

"If you take a sample of people involved in automobile accidents on their way to work and ask the sample if they had breakfast and then checked the correlation between eating breakfast and automobile accidents -- it would be through the roof." Really? If you're only interviewing accident victims, the correlation between "did you eat breakfast" and "did you have an accident" isn't defined, and even if you included everyone, it's hard to see why breakfast eating would actually be correlated, much less what would be the supposed 3rd factor causing both.

It's a silly analogy, which, with combined with the rest of the article, can only lead me to conclude that you don't believe statistical evidence is even possible. Yet you're still convinced that graduate degrees obviously make for better teachers -- but that no other observable characteristic could.

Maybe you are willing to admit that graduate degrees for teachers don't have an effect on student test scores, but that student test scores aren't a good measure of student performance. So what is? And how do you plan to measure it? (Hopefully with a bit more thought put into it than this article.)
09:44 AM on 06/27/2011
Perhaps you need to read more closely...the post stated that graduate degrees do not raise test scores---there's a vast difference between raising standardized test scores and the effectiveness of a teacher. Effective teachers need to see themselves as lifelong learners---education should never cease.
03:48 PM on 06/29/2011
That's actually my point. The article says that graduate degrees do not improve test scores. Nonetheless, Slekar criticises those who then conclude that school districts shouldn't pay for teacher graduate education (since they apparently don't actually make for better teachers), by saying that "correlation doesn't equal causation." Which is utterly bizarre.

It's one thing if I say "people who crash their cars had breakfast, therefore breakfasts cause crashes." But that's not the correct analogy. What critics are saying is "people who have breakfast don't get into car crashes any more frequently than people who don't have breakfast, therefore breakfasts have nothing to do with it." Slekar is responding, "well, correlation doesn't equal causation -- therefore we don't know breakfasts don't cause accidents, and I think they do."

This doesn't mean that teachers shouldn't be lifelong learners. Everyone should. It's an issue of whether that means a teacher with an MA should automatically make more than one without
photo
HUFFPOST BLOGGER
Shaun Johnson
Teacher educator and former classroom teacher
11:50 AM on 06/26/2011
Good discussion here. I have a BA in something other than education and I received my MAT before teaching elementary school. I would not have gone into teaching if not for the MAT because I would not go through the trouble of getting a second BA. I also trust that my abilities as an educator were better after two years of study than they would be if I went through an alternative program. I think the sole reason people resist the inclination towards rewarding teachers for graduate degrees is due to money, and that's not a legitimate enough reason.
10:57 AM on 06/27/2011
I believe that the resistance is due to some vocal portion of the population wants to get the most education for the cheapest price - little do they realize what it is they are asking for. Why on earth someone wants to entrust children to the least qualified and lowest paid person possible is beyond me.
photo
SeptimusDSX
Always question the obvious.
09:21 AM on 06/26/2011
Somebody with balls should step up and put an end to the testing mafia. Bubble tests are the bane of American education.

A good graduate experience opens up your mind in unimaginable ways. The point is not just to accumulate knowledge, but to gain new ways of thinking. In my view a graduate degree should be a must for teachers. I would suggest a graduate degree in some specific field, not just "education".

If you want to become a teacher, major in the field of your choice and take additional classes in psychology, computer technology and philosophy. Get some field experience as part of your studies and you are good to go!
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
jourdankr
Play nice!
04:52 PM on 06/29/2011
Undergraduate major in my field of study...check...minor in developmental psychology...check...classes in computer technology...check...philosophy...check...field experience every year from sophomore year to graduate year...check! You just described my entire journey for my Master of Arts in Teaching! So glad I got my graduate degree :)
This user has chosen to opt out of the Badges program
photo
GlennWatson
Two million fans
07:37 AM on 06/26/2011
Graduate degrees in education do nothing but waste item. Graduate degrees in the field they teach in are very valuable.
05:54 PM on 06/26/2011
I wholeheartedly agree with you about a graduate degree in education. However, in the fields I teach, math and physics, I do not believe that a graduate degree in those fields are valuable to the quality of instruction at the high school level or below. Its great for your own personal knowledge and it sets a good example for your students about being a lifelong learner. But the entirety of the high school and 1st year undergraduate can be fully understood by the end of the undergraduate curriculum in these fields.

The graduate level curriculum in these fields is focused on developing a deeper understanding of the concepts developed in the upper undergraduate curriculum, so its effect on your understanding of lower level material is marginal at best. To even convey that understanding requires introducing concepts to your students which are far outside the scope of the material.

For ex: Heine-Borel Theorem (1st yr. graduate level) gives insight to the Bolzano-Weierstrass Theorem (3rd yr. undergraduate), which gives insight into the structure of the real numbers. Now I can give my high school students a qualitative discussion about the latter insight, but the former is well beyond their scope.
This user has chosen to opt out of the Badges program
photo
GlennWatson
Two million fans
10:34 PM on 06/26/2011
I agree. I have a Masters in history. But very little of the graduate work I did fits in a HS curriculum. I have occasionally gone back and taken undergraduate classes in subjects like economics. They are much more useful in my day to day teaching.

If the system is going give out money for degrees they should make sure the degrees are really useful.
06:46 AM on 06/26/2011
A graduate degree in education isn't even useful enough to start a camp fire. Unfortunately that is the type of master's degree that most teachers have or are encouraged to pursue. The end result is that the failed ideology of Constructivism peddled in the schools of education reigns supreme over curriculum and instruction throughout America.

If a teacher is unfortunate enough to have a degree in a real field they are subjected to a brutal campaign of indoctrination through subjugation by the ideological managers within their school districts (curriculum supervisors, coaches, etc). The system is altogether evil and the single best action that could be undertaken to change it is to stop financing the schools of education via tuition reimbursement for advanced degrees.
07:47 AM on 06/26/2011
One person's brutal campaign of indoctrination is very likely another person's earnest attempt to help someone learn an unfamiliar job.

"Altogether evil"? Really?
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
medic628
02:17 PM on 06/26/2011
REALLY!!!
03:13 PM on 06/26/2011
Teaching requires primarily two things: thorough content knowledge and the desire to communicate that knowledge to an audience. Everything else can be learned on the job.

The field of education is designed to not only obfuscate this, but is at core completely opposed to this basic notion. The ideology of Constructivism has disdain for content knowledge (low-level thinking) and considers a teacher communicating that knowledgeas tantamount to inhibiting student learning. The only knowledge which is "meaningful" is that which is "discovered" by the student. The teacher no longer teaches, but rather facilitates the process of discovery. If this garbage was standard practice throughout the world, or in our elite prep schools, I would be tempted to consider it. However, what we have is a situation where the poor to middle class children of this country are at best, lab rats to the scoundrels in the fields of education, at worst, they are the target consumer market for the various industries(Publishing, Tech) that they are shilling for.

Needless to say this sounds like a great mechanism to weed out the most qualified teachers, and create a nation of people devoid of knowledge and primed to get ripped off. Is this altogether evil? I think it depends which end of the income spectrum you reside.
05:34 PM on 06/26/2011
Graduate degrees in education can be great. Graduate studies in special education, ESL, early childhood, etc. Teachers who come out of these programs generally really do learn a great deal about teaching and learning. Wish evey teacher went through one of these specialized programs.
This user has chosen to opt out of the Badges program
photo
GlennWatson
Two million fans
10:03 AM on 06/28/2011
That has not been my experience nor the experience of any teacher I have ever met. Without exception teacher tell me their education classes were a waste of time.
12:13 AM on 06/26/2011
It appears that Superintendent John Deasy is following in the regrettable Los Angeles Unified School District (LAUSD) tradition of accommodating to failure instead of seeking excellence. The only reason why teachers with advanced academic degrees and training have no better results than minimally educated teachers is that the vast majority of students have been allowed to fall so far below basic in math and English language skills that highly qualified teachers have no common language in English, math, or any other subject to reach these kids - with their 500 word vocabularies who do not even know their times tables - by the time they get to middle school and beyond; clueless as to what is going on around them and disruptive of an educational process that has become degrading to them.

Deasy and his predecessors at LAUSD and elsewhere in this country exhibit the militant ignorance as to what is really making good teaching impossible and in this case they would rather shot the messenger, who happens to be in the form of highly educated teachers, to insure homogeneous mediocrity. How low can public education go. At perdaily.com we have spoken true to power for 2 years about what is wrong in public education and, more importantly how to fix it.
07:49 AM on 06/26/2011
I think you're wrong. I think the only reason advanced degrees don't improve results is because the "results" we're talking about here are high-stakes test scores that depend mostly on student and parent factors. It's not that degrees don't improve teaching; it's that standardized tests don't measure teaching.
10:07 PM on 06/25/2011
> checked the correlation between eating breakfast and automobile accidents

Sir, I think you need go back and review STAT 101.

Are you actually making the extraordinary and astounding claim that there is a high correlation between eating breakfast and getting in an auto accident? In other words, breakfast-eaters would be significantly over-represented among accident participants, while non-breakfast eaters would be significantly under-represented?

That is a claim that demands support. Or, you don't know what correlation means.
photo
HUFFPOST BLOGGER
Timothy D. Slekar
Associate Professor of Teacher Education
11:57 PM on 06/25/2011
Simple. Correlation = Relationship
Anything more is not correlation!
04:54 PM on 06/26/2011
What is the relationship between eating breakfast & getting in an accident? Likely none. As the previous poster alluded to, you would need to see if breakfast eaters are more likely to get in an accident then those not eating breakfast. Not sure what you are getting at with the second sentence, but you can certainly have causation & correlation.
04:44 PM on 06/27/2011
Okay, here's a different example. A study showed that ice cream sales peaked during the months of June, July, and August. Also, it showed that people wore less clothing during the months of June, July, and August. Therefore, ice cream must cause people to remove clothing!
08:49 PM on 06/25/2011
I think the education community needs a better defense if they are going to continue as is
07:50 AM on 06/26/2011
This is, I think, less an argument for continuing as-is than it is a plea to stop making things worse.
07:09 PM on 06/25/2011
Speaking about student success, I can only talk about my experience as a high school teacher - I've never taught elementary/young students, my students when they arrive to me are generally 15-18 years old. Sometimes 20-30 years old, but that's for another post. In seven years, I can say that nearly every student I had that worked hard and asked questions passed with at least a D - usually higher, and that nearly every student that failed were the ones who never showed, never did any work, and in general had no respect for their own education. Very very few failed because they tried hard and still failed to understand the material, and the ones who did were generally special education students for whom acquiring a foreign language was a bit too much without actual complete immersion. My point is that very rarely do students in my experience fail because of lack of teacher competence, and almost always because they have no respect and no desire for education. For those students, high school's really too late to turn that feeling around, and more must be done at earlier ages to change this for this particular category of student.
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Jenn May
"insert clever quote here"
09:58 PM on 06/25/2011
F&F
07:53 AM on 06/26/2011
Ah, but you don't understand the "reform" position.

Those kids that didn't show up, didn't do any work, and didn't respect their education were that way because of YOU. If you had only been a competent teacher, they'd have been in their desks, happily working away. Perhaps you'd have had to go to their houses in the morning to wake them up and drive them in. Perhaps you'd have had to feed and clothe them. Perhaps you'd have had to take them from their parents when they were born and raise them to be respectful. So what? That's what you're getting paid to do. And if you're not willing to do it, we'll fire you and find someone who can.

Remember always that learning is a passive activity, and it's possible for a teacher to teach a kid who's unwilling, or even not there. You just have to teach harder.
11:20 AM on 06/26/2011
That was great...
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Protocolor
空耳モード
12:16 PM on 06/28/2011
Exactly!

You can lead a horse to water. If he doesn't drink, then prep the I.V. drip... or the enema... We'll get that horse hydrated one way or another!