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Tom Gregory

Tom Gregory

Posted: January 10, 2010 03:57 PM

The Church's Stranglehold on the New York Times

What's Your Reaction:

The real question about marriage equality, and the church's stranglehold on America was dodged in today's NYTimes.

Philip Galanes, in his Social Q's column, addressed a question posed by marriage equality activist David Bohnett. The question as printed in the NYTimes:

Wedding Boycott

I am at the forefront of the battle for same-sex marriage. Lately, it feels like too big a compromise to my values of fairness and equality to accept wedding invitations while my partner and I aren't allowed to marry. Do you think it's reasonable to decline wedding invitations, with the explanation that I wish the bride and bridegroom much happiness and look forward to the day when my partner and I have the same legal rights as they do?

David, Beverly Hills, Calif.

But Mr. Bohnett's question as edited was missing this crucial point (bold text):

I have been in the forefront of the battle for same-sex marriage equality. Our recent setbacks are discouraging, but we've made tremendous progress in the last decade and I believe it's only a matter of time until we achieve full marriage equality at both the state and federal level. It feels like too great of a compromise of my core values of fairness and equality to accept a wedding invitation, particularly one held in a church of a faith that has actively worked against marriage equality. Until my partner and I have the same legal rights as heterosexual couples, do you think it is reasonable to politely decline wedding invitations from family members and friends, with the explanation that I wish them much happiness and look forward to the time that my partner and I have the same opportunity to marry ?

David Bohnett, Beverly Hills, Calif.


Mr. Galanes' response:

So, like a wedding cake hunger strike?


I hear your frustration, and your impulse doesn't strike me as wholly unreasonable.

But it may seem awfully selfish to the wedding bouquet set: making their big day all about you. I bet you would engender more good will, for yourself and your cause, by celebrating the happy couples and explaining (in a congratulatory card, perhaps?) how deeply you wish you could share their joy with your own partner -- not to mention the myriad rights and privileges that come along with something borrowed, something blue.

But if you truly can't be happy watching Granny pinch the centerpieces, just say so. It may still be on the selfish side, but a bride and bridegroom may be more inclined to understand.


Mr. Galanes' answer may have been the same, but editing out the faith-based aspect only serves to deny the reader the full impact of the church's financial role to support harmful discriminatory legislation.

One can only wonder if the inexorable decline of print media is somehow tied to a culture that saves column space for the sake of expediency and tidy answers.


 
 
 
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The Marrying Kind
funny and charming
02:10 PM on 01/13/2010
While I am troubled by the New York Times decision to edit out David Bohnett's sentence, I am equally troubled by Mr. Galanes' rather flip response to the question:

"A wedding cake hunger strike?" Really?

David's query deserved a far more thoughtful response.

David asks how best he should stand up against a segregated institution. My guess is that if instead he'd asked a question about whether or not to accept an invitation to play golf at a country club that didn't allow Jews, or perhaps if he was concerned about accepting a teaching job at a University that didn't enroll African-Americans, Mr. Galanes' answer would have been very clear: No you should not.

Whether or not the newlyweds support equality is really irrelevant. Because of the way marriage is currently defined the institution is unjust. So for any one, gay or straight, who desires to see the end of segregated marriage laws, what is the correct response when you receive such an invitation?

Respond the same way you would when faced with other examples of injustice, you boycott. You speak up. What you don't do is attend, and smile, and dance and bring a big present and pretend that nothing is wrong and that you are absolutely delighted.

The time for joyous occasions will return. When every American can marry.

But today, what exactly are we celebrating?

Missing the special days of loved ones is very difficult I assure you, supporting injustice is so much harder.
10:48 PM on 01/13/2010
Why wouldn't he protest the state government that controls marriage licensing or the state legislature that makes the laws? The church performed marriages between a man and woman, the state underpinned those marriages with a legal contract, the state controls who can and can not legally marry.

Changes in the church may or may not affect the law.
11:46 AM on 01/11/2010
I can understand Mr. Bohnett not wanting to enter a church with whose views he does not agree. Mr. Gregory, however, refers to "the church", an anonymous church, which he alleges has a "stanglehold on America".

Mr. Bohnett is quite clear. He doesn't want to enter a church which he feels has worked against marriage equality. Mr. Gregory's reference, however, is not clear. Mr. Gregory speaks of "the church" and, unlike Mr. Bohnett, Mr. Gregory alleges that "the church" has a "stranglehold on America". Mr. Bohnett never referred to "the church" nor did he make any allegations about a "stranglehold on America".

In essence, Mr. Gregory has taken an idea set forth by Mr. Bohnett and read into it much more than even Mr. Bohnett intended. That seems to me to do a disservice to Mr. Bohnett. Obviously Mr. Bohnett is quite articulate and quite capable of speaking for himself.
10:43 AM on 01/11/2010
That editing completely changed the meaning of the question. I wouldn't set foot in that church for any reason.
11:14 AM on 01/11/2010
Precisely which church would that be, alibeamish?

I think that Mr. Gregory completely changed the meaning of the question by attempting to focus on the editing rather than on the thrust of the question itself. The question was whether or not to accept wedding invitations. It was not about wheter "the church" does or does not have a "stranglehold on America".
08:44 AM on 01/11/2010
Mr. Gregory, to whom, precisely, are you referring when you use the term, "the church"? Are you referring to the Catholic church? Are you referring collectively to all churches which support traditional marriage? It is not at all clear to whom it is you are referring.

What do you mean by "the church's stranglehold on America". That is a colorful and inflammatory phrase but as you use it, it has no meaning. Which church's have a "stranglehold" on America and in what way is it a "stranglehold"?

By all means, make your case but make it in a clear and rational manner.
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billygore2000
09:20 AM on 01/11/2010
Agreed. Any hope Mr. Gregory had of being persuasive he ruined for the reasons you articulate. You read his remarks, becoming sidetracked by wondering what "the church" is?
09:57 AM on 01/11/2010
I'm also trying to figure out, billygore2000, why Mr. Gregory thinks that the editing in question was the result of a "stanglehold" by some "church". Mr. Gregory doesn't indicate that he contacted Mr. Galanes to ascertain precisely why the letter was edited in the way it was. Essentially, I don't think that there are enough hard facts to warrant any conclusions, let alone conclusions about "the church".
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xxpossum
leftist bushwacker
08:20 AM on 01/11/2010
wow all this circular logic by the theocrats is so much like my dog when she chases her tail-course she does it for treats not spite
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HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
Waltfl
ἡ ἀλήθεια ἐλευθερώ ὑμᾶς
07:51 AM on 01/11/2010
Boycotting marriages will not do a thing. The only movement that will permanently cause the church to stay out of politics, and respect the separation of church and State, would be a grassroots-movement, in order to revoke their tax-exempt status. When it starts hurting the coffers they will back off, everything else is futile. I can see no reason why they should qualify for non-profit, because they are not "non-profit". The Catholic church is actually the biggest and most exploitive corporation in the world.
10:50 PM on 01/13/2010
Then the government would be in the religion business and that would be a violation of the Constitution.
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thehuff
05:53 AM on 01/11/2010
And then there's this, in today's (Monday) NYTimes:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/11/opinion/11meese.html?ref=todayspaper

It should be noted that the Author, Edwin Meese III, is a fellow at the Heritage Foundation. Google Heritage Foundation and read about it and you'll see why I point this out.
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gal416
is a Bible verse † † †
02:27 AM on 01/11/2010
Ok all you atheists, I'm going to bed. Have at it.


Goodnight
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HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
Waltfl
ἡ ἀλήθεια ἐλευθερώ ὑμᾶς
07:43 AM on 01/11/2010
Anti Church ≠ Atheist.
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gal416
is a Bible verse † † †
10:50 AM on 01/11/2010
If you are against the Church that God established, you are agaionst God.
06:54 PM on 01/11/2010
No, it doesn't.

But what's your point?
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MyFatCat
Slacktivist no longer
11:01 PM on 01/10/2010
I'm glad to see that the bold type was reinstated. Not ALL churches refuse to perform marriages between committed people who are the same sex.

It's important to understand that left-wing and Democratic-leaning churches and parishes exist, and the people in them vote and pray!
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gal416
is a Bible verse † † †
11:18 PM on 01/10/2010
Any church that would do things against God are not of God.
11:56 PM on 01/10/2010
Like wear clothing made of two different materials? Leviticus is certainly the chapter that I live my life by!
11:03 AM on 01/11/2010
nonsense. since there is no god then churches are of men. men do stupid things.
09:48 PM on 01/10/2010
Would it have been selfish for, say, African-Americans to prefer to walk rather than ride a bus in which they were permitted only the back seats? Would it be selfish or ridiculous for women paid to mop floors to be "sick" on election day because they were disturbed seeing others do what they were legally not allowed to do?

Oh, wait, that's exactly what they did, and we now applaud Rosa Parks for her courageous choices, as well as all of those taking part in the bus boycott. We applaud Susan B. Anthony and Elizabeth Cady Stanton for their courage.

We don't look back on the civil rights movement and say that Ms. Parks should have not only given up her seat, but have done so with a smile -- after all, someone offered her free heavy appetizers and a chance to deliver a gift of stemware! Or that Susan B. Anthony should have just shut up and served dinner.

It's not selfish for someone to feel unable or unwilling to "celebrate" something capriciously and nonsensically denied them, particularly right at the scene of the crime. It's selfish for others not to care that such capricious and nonsensical laws still exist.
10:32 PM on 01/10/2010
If you are referring to the Montgomery Bus Boycott, the issue was that the city was enforcing the discrimination practices of private bus companies. Sitting in the wrong seat was criminal. Rosa Parks was arrested for refusing to move from her seat, which was a designated seat, for a white man when the seating reserved for white people was full.

If this person decides to protest weddings, the state will not care. There will be no arrest, or trial, or a need to go to the Supreme Court to protest weddings.
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The Marrying Kind
funny and charming
02:40 PM on 01/13/2010
I'd not read your post when I wrote mine. Thanks for your words. I agree completely.
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gal416
is a Bible verse † † †
09:26 PM on 01/10/2010
Bad editing on my part. Should read church of God in last sentence.
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gal416
is a Bible verse † † †
08:57 PM on 01/10/2010
If you wish to protest marriage by not attending a wedding that you were invited to because it's in a church, I guess that's up to you.
The ordinance of marriage was created and blessed by God for man and woman and it can never be sanctioned by God for the purpose of sin. If homosexuals want to tie the knot, so to speak, I guess they can call it marriage if they want, but that is not what it is and the true curch of God cannot sanction lt.
09:45 PM on 01/10/2010
The true Church of God does sanction it.
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gal416
is a Bible verse † † †
10:06 PM on 01/10/2010
You are wrong.
10:33 PM on 01/10/2010
There's a "true Church of God?"
10:13 PM on 01/10/2010
Excuse me... ever heard of separation between Church and State? The couple in question do not want a religious wedding but a lay one, that would entitle them to the same civil rights as married heterosexuals. Your concepts of "sin" , "true" and "god" are only your own. He wants nothing of them. Especially from a church that persecutes homosexuals, as he states in the part that was cowardly cut out by the NYT
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gal416
is a Bible verse † † †
10:52 PM on 01/10/2010
God defines what sin, truth, and who He is, I just happen to agree with Him.
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xxpossum
leftist bushwacker
08:44 PM on 01/10/2010
when isnt the so called news media groveling before clerics?
maxfax
Taa - dah!
08:11 PM on 01/10/2010
Why do churches continue to have tax exempt status?
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gal416
is a Bible verse † † †
08:58 PM on 01/10/2010
To keep church separate fom state.
12:33 AM on 01/11/2010
LOL! Honey, I read your other comments here. Your every response to why marriage shouldn't be granted to all couples equally under the law has been religiously based. Can I get my tax money back?
11:09 AM on 01/11/2010
eliminate all churches. that'll keep separate from the state.
06:53 AM on 01/11/2010
To avoid their responsibility to society.
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Hazumu
05:11 PM on 01/10/2010
To really get the full effect of the editing job on the original, copy/paste both the original and as-published letters into a word processor. Then, apply the following modifications to the original:

Strikethrough all text that didn't make it into the published version.

Underline all text that was added.

Use square brackets to contain changes, showing deleted/added text with strikethroughs and underlines.

Good thing we get to compare the as-written to the as-published...