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Interview with a Philosopher: Over Coffee

Posted: 03/19/11 01:17 PM ET

Why does so much philosophy take place in bars and coffeehouses? What's the relationship between drinking and thinking?

Today, I'm talking to Scott F. Parker and Michael W. Austin, two philosophers seriously tweaked by java. Scott's a regular contributor to Rain Taxi Review of Books, and his writing has appeared in many magazines, as well as in books of popular philosophy. Michael W. Austin is Associate Professor of Philosophy at Eastern Kentucky University, and typically chief sage in whatever coffee establishment he happens to enter. He's the author of many books on philosophy, running, parenthood and football, among other topics.

Today we're talking about their new book, "Coffee: Grounds for Debate," available in bookstores this month.

Tom: Scott and Mike, you've put together a book about coffee and philosophy, ruminations on regular and dissertations on decaf, I gather. Now, like many, I often drink coffee while I'm doing philosophy. But is there more to the relationship than this?

Scott: One thing that's interesting about coffee is that it represents both an occasion to do philosophy and a philosophically interesting subject in its own right. All of the big philosophical concerns are relevant to thinking about coffee. In the book we group the essays in four categories: metaphysics, culture, aesthetics and ethics.

Tom: OK, the aesthetics and ethics of coffee make sense. Aesthetically, there are questions about subjectivity, taste and experience; ethically, it's important to think about environmental impact and the treatment of farmers, mostly in the third world. But the metaphysics of coffee? I sip, therefore I am? Beans and nuttiness?

Mike: Very funny. Metaphysics actually comes up in a variety of ways. In the first chapter Mark Pendergrast asks, "Is coffee puddle water or panacea?" In the history of coffee drinking, opinions about it have fluctuated wildly. Kristopher G. Phillips draws on philosopher Thomas Nagel to investigate the nature of the coffee drinker and asks, "What is it like to appreciate coffee?" Steven Geisz understands coffee addiction in terms of the Buddhist notion of samsara.

In my chapter, "The Necessary Ground of Being," I filter through a cluster of issues related to a question that many have discussed in coffeehouses around the world: "Does God exist?" This is not about the metaphysics of coffee per se, but displays the kind of robust metaphysical question perhaps best tackled with a good strong cup of joe in hand.

Tom: And I imagine the culture component looks at the lifestyles surrounding coffee these days.

Scott: That's right. Some of the essays look at the roles coffeehouses play in society as places where ideas are shared and tested. A coffeehouse is one of the few places open to everyone where gathering and lingering are encouraged, where leisure (as distinct from entertainment) is a goal. This seems crucial. In our world of endless distraction and constant surface-level attention, coffee plays an interesting role. On the one hand, it contains caffeine, and the stimulation it provides can be used to live an even more kinetic life. On the other hand, drinking coffee can be one of your most intentional and deliberate acts. You take time out of your day to do something that brings you simple pleasure. And the fact that coffee is generally served hot helps because it requires that you pay attention -- you literally have to slow down to drink it. I think focusing like this, even just for 15 minutes at a time, is critical for mental health.

One thing I want to encourage is treating coffee in this latter mode -- slowing down, enjoying it and using your coffee time for paying attention to the world--and the caffeine helps with this. Drinking coffee doesn't necessarily lead people to do philosophy, but I want it to give them a chance.

Tom: I understand the book is a collection of new essays by not only professional philosophers, but also philosophically inclined individuals representing other walks of life.

Mike: It is. We wanted the book to have a variety of ideas and styles in it, so we invited not only card-carrying philosophers to write essays, but also anthropologists, historians, journalists, coffee experts and even comedians to contribute!

James Kirkland and Dan Levy have a web series, The Coffee Bean Guys, in which they spend their days at a coffee shop trying to become celebrities. It was fun to include that and use humor to make the book more playful.

Tom: I should ask you about Starbucks, because of its prominence in coffee drinking around the world. The founder, Howard Schultz, once wrote a very philosophical book about his vision for it. Is it something you take on directly in the book?

Scott: Kenneth Davids gives an expert's analysis of three very different levels of coffee, one level being Starbucks. But the chapter that goes at it most directly is John Hartmann's "Starbucks and the Third Wave," which gives an assessment of Starbucks' contributions and shortcomings as it reconciles making money with making good, responsible coffee. One thing you notice in Hartmann's essay is that the new Third Wave's goals sound a lot like Starbucks' original goals. It remains to be seen whether the coffee roasters of the Third Wave will be able to maintain their ethical commitments as their companies grow.

Starbucks has done some real good for coffee. They've basically taken the elitist notion of quality global; they tend to treat their employees well; they've created public spaces, which are particularly important in suburban, car-centric areas, where gathering places are harder to come by. And they don't limit bathroom use to customers; this might seem tangential to their essence, but it's an important part of providing a space for all of a community. At the same time, they've been accused for wasting water, their recycling practice is insufficient, they haven't done enough to ensure living wages for farmers and their ubiquity does contribute to the flattening of our culture. So it's really a mixed bag, but on the whole I like them and think it's reasonable to hope they'll make efforts to improve their environmental and ethical practices.

Tom: Are there any other topics of note in the book that you'd like to mention?

Mike: One fun chapter is Kenneth Kirkwood's treatment of caffeine as a performance-enhancing drug. Lori Keleher's discussion of coffee and the good life, using Aristotle, is excellent. And Will Buckingham's "wasted afternoon" drinking coffee and reading philosophy is just what we hope readers will do with our book.

Tom: Have you guys always been coffee drinkers?

Mike: My first experiences with coffee were very unpleasant.

Tom: Many would say the same thing about philosophy.

Mike: Good point! And yet we can come to love both. I started drinking coffee in college, out of necessity. One of my college roommates worked in a coffee shop, and I had procrastinated to the point that I had to stay up all night to finish a paper for a philosophy class, and with the help of some good coffee I was able to do it. I've been a coffee drinker since that night.

Tom: So the connection for you was born then.

Scott: I grew up in Portland, where coffee is sort of a way of life. My parents drank good coffee when I was kid, so even though I didn't start drinking it until near the end of high school, I learned to appreciate the aroma of coffee, and to appreciate the appreciation of coffee.

Tom: Mike, you've edited several books on philosophy and popular culture now. And, Scott, I know you've contributed to several volumes. What's next for you guys?

Mike: I like these books because they demonstrate the relevance of philosophy to life's big and small questions. Philosophy relates to everything, when it is done in the right spirit. I co-edited a book that will be released at the same time as "Coffee," called, "Fatherhood -- Philosophy for Everyone: The Dao of Daddy," and I've got another book, "The Philosophy of the Olympics," in the works; it'll be out next summer in time for London.

Scott: I have a chapter in Mike's Olympics book that focuses on Steve Prefontaine, who has always fascinated me. In fact, he's an important subject in "The Joy of Running qua Running," a memoir I'm finishing up. But if I'm going to mention Pre in this interview, I should end on a note of caution: Be careful mixing coffee and running!

Tom: Funny. Too much coffee and I'm always running to find the nearest restroom. Thanks, guys, for your good work and for talking today.

Scott and Mike: Thank you, Tom, for what you're doing to bring more philosophy to the culture. Now, back to the daily grind!

 
 
 

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Why does so much philosophy take place in bars and coffeehouses? What's the relationship between drinking and thinking? Today, I'm talking to Scott F. Parker and Michael W. Austin, two philosophers ...
Why does so much philosophy take place in bars and coffeehouses? What's the relationship between drinking and thinking? Today, I'm talking to Scott F. Parker and Michael W. Austin, two philosophers ...
 
 
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SheDAISY
Progressive femme fatale
01:27 PM on 03/24/2011
* For me, there is nothing like the aroma and flavor of freshly ground coffee beans, and a good cup of coffee every morning to start off the day. Thought the following poem would be apropos for this thread.

"Caffeine is my shepherd; I shall not doze.
It maketh me to wake in green pastures:
It leadeth me beyond the sleeping masses.
It restoreth my buzz:
It leadeth me in the paths of consciousness for its name's sake.
Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of addiction,
I will fear no Equal
For thou art with me; thy cream and thy sugar they comfort me.
Thou preparest a carafe before me in the presence of the Starbucks:
Thou annointest my day with pep; my mug runneth over
Surely richness and taste shall follow me all the days of my life:
And I will dwell in the House of Mochas forever."
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rikster
buy the ticket-take the ride
08:45 PM on 03/21/2011
caffeine...
lastpost
see biography
08:32 AM on 03/21/2011
“Why does so much philosophy take place in bars and coffeehouses?”
Is it because, when deep in thought, the street is no safe place to be?

the metaphysics of coffee? I sip,
I slip, I soak myself. Therefore, I’m damp.

“What is it like to appreciate coffee?"
More importantly. What is it like to be someone else?

"Does God exist?"
And if so, what brand of coffee does he/she/it buy, and where?

“the stimulation it provides can be used to live an even more kinetic life”.
Unless your philosophy is, think twice act once.

“you literally have to slow down to drink it”
(in). Sit by a river. Its cheaper and it works the same way.

“Third Wave's goals sound a lot like”
an Espresso Tsunami?

“What's next for you guys?”
Cheeses on a cracker.

“The Philosophy of the Olympics”
The third original nude sport.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
BlackYowe
I am a classical- liberal woman and a Jeweler.
03:14 AM on 03/21/2011
The best thinking happens when ever people mingle and relax together.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Deli
Life after death, why wait?
01:41 AM on 03/21/2011
Philosophy does not take place in coffee shops, "philosophizing" does.
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Badger33
You may say to yourself...
01:08 AM on 03/21/2011
My best thinking comes while on the commode.
This user has chosen to opt out of the Badges program
04:01 PM on 03/20/2011
I have done my best "science for the lay audience" article while sitting in a coffeehouse, sipping coffee. I look at a stop for coffee as "recharging my batteries" and not in the modern sense of OH NO I NEED MORE CAFFEINE! The daytime pause of doing nothing but reflecting and drinking a nice cup of freshly ground shade-grown brewed beans is sort of a brain defragmenter.
11:29 AM on 03/20/2011
I'm confused. Doesn't caffeine stimulate the brain? I think I have missed the point?
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
katiek2o
11:44 AM on 03/20/2011
yes and i t hink generally when people get in groups they bounce ideas off each other,/ groups stimulate each other.. what a genius article.. ha ..not
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HUFFPOST BLOGGER
Tom Morris
Philosopher, author.
02:00 PM on 03/20/2011
It's really funny how many obvious things we often need to be reminded of. Some people have characterized all of practical philosophy as the repeated reminder of obvious things. It's never news from the blue. It's more often, "I knew that, so why haven't I been acting that way?"

I sometimes call philosophers the closet organizers of the mind. Half the stuff in my closet I don't even remember I own. When it gets organized I'm going, "Hey, I can wear that." Philosophers sometimes do the most good when they help us organize our thinking and remind us of things we already knew. That's at least what Socrates thought. And he managed ... without coffee.
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HUFFPOST BLOGGER
Tom Morris
Philosopher, author.
02:05 PM on 03/20/2011
There are many good points here. Caffeine stimulates the brain. Slowing down and sitting still can allow the brain to be stimulated. Being with other people in an unhurried environment can both allow stimulation and cause it, as brain plays off brain. Plus, unlike social media stimulation, as in "what we're doing right now," in a coffee house setting, there's all the body language, which could be 70% of the intellectual stimulation, if we can believe the neuroscience guys - and just watching their enthusiastic body language when they say stuff like this stimulates belief!

I'd rather sit with a hot cup of coffee in a great coffee house with great people around than just take a caffeine pill by myself. And I think much better philosophy might result!
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artleads
Let's have a national retreat.
01:01 AM on 03/21/2011
So glad to read this. I've always tended toward disbelief that smart people I like will spend so much time so regularly in coffee houses. But this makes me understand it better. I can't drink coffee and can't afford it either, but I consider myself a practical philosopher. So my "coffee house" tends to be places like HufPO. :-)
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SoylentGreenIsPeople
Hmmm........Tastes Like Chicken !
11:23 AM on 03/20/2011
Low Stress = Clear thinking.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
JeffreyGold
Senator Jeffrey Gold (I)
04:38 AM on 03/20/2011
I think it was the mathematician Pal Erdös (Paul Erdos) who said that "A mathematician is a device for turning coffee into theorems."
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HUFFPOST BLOGGER
Tom Morris
Philosopher, author.
10:50 AM on 03/20/2011
JG: I like that one a lot! Thanks.
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french queen13
my beloved is mine and I am his
12:55 AM on 03/20/2011
"Grounds for debate" GROAN!
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HUFFPOST BLOGGER
Tom Morris
Philosopher, author.
10:51 AM on 03/20/2011
Ha! French Queen, we must admit, silly humor seems to dog philosophers wherever they go. It's somehow involved with the percolation of ideas.
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french queen13
my beloved is mine and I am his
06:55 PM on 03/20/2011
Consider yourself to have had a virtual cup of (tepid) coffee thrown at you, sirrah! There'll be Monty Python quotes surfacing at this rate ...
08:09 PM on 03/19/2011
I do my best thinking while scooping pooch poop in the back yard. Seriously.
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HUFFPOST BLOGGER
Tom Morris
Philosopher, author.
10:50 AM on 03/20/2011
TF: You're right. Picking up pooch poop is an underrated road to philosophical insight.

It can be a great zen path to creative thought. Years ago, I resented doing it. Now I think of myself as a servant to these fine animals, and the others in the family who benefit from my elimination of the elimination. You can just be as you deal with the doo.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
clearthinker16
reads, investigates and thinks before making stupi
07:50 PM on 03/19/2011
one of my software genius friends found inspiration during his morning time in the library as he called it, sitting there after the coffee had done it's job
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HUFFPOST BLOGGER
Tom Morris
Philosopher, author.
10:48 AM on 03/20/2011
Very funny! Coffee works its wonders in many ways.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
LynneSpreen
www.AnyShinyThing.com, For Smart Women
05:37 PM on 03/19/2011
When I was a teenager, I was the first one up in the house. Before dressing for school, I put on a pot (back in the percolator-on-the-stove days) which I drank with my mom and dad. It was one of the first adult rituals I can remember and I enjoyed sharing this time with my parents. God knows the rest of my day was more rocky and typical-teenager, so it was a nice calm start for all 3 of us.
http://anyshinything.com/2011/03/18/give-me-laughter-stat/
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HUFFPOST BLOGGER
Tom Morris
Philosopher, author.
10:47 AM on 03/20/2011
Lynne: What a nice memory. Thanks for sharing it. Small rituals can bring us together.
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mansterEZ
searching for secular humanist fact-based truth
05:08 PM on 03/19/2011
I don't drink alcohol or caffeine and am a thinker who hopes to get published soon. I do agree that coffeehouses provide one a great avenue to explore others train of though and intimately share information and guided opinions.
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HUFFPOST BLOGGER
Tom Morris
Philosopher, author.
10:52 AM on 03/20/2011
Keep up the quest for publication. Ideas should be shared! And I've enjoyed many a time in a coffee shop sipping sparkling water instead of the dark brew.