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Two Minutes to Midnight? Cutting Through the Media's Bogus Bomb-Iran Debate

Posted: 08/24/10 03:37 PM ET

Crossposted on TomDispatch

America's march to a disastrous war in Iraq began in the media, where an unprovoked U.S. invasion of an Arab country was introduced as a legitimate policy option, then debated as a prudent and necessary one. Now, a similarly flawed media conversation on Iran is gaining momentum.

Last month, Time's Joe Klein warned that Obama administration sources had told him bombing Iran's nuclear facilities was "back on the table."  In an interview with CNN, former CIA director Admiral Mike Hayden next spoke of an "inexorable" dynamic toward confrontation, claiming that bombing was a more viable option for the Obama administration than it had been for George W. Bush. The pièce de résistance in the most recent drum roll of bomb-Iran alerts, however, came from Jeffrey Goldberg in the Atlantic Monthly.  A journalist influential in U.S. pro-Israeli circles, he also has access to Israel’s corridors of power. Because sanctions were unlikely to force Iran to back down on its uranium enrichment project, Goldberg invited readers to believe that there was a more than even chance Israel would launch a military strike on the country by next summer. 

His piece, which sparked considerable debate in both the blogosphere and the traditional media, was certainly an odd one.  After all, despite the dramatics he deployed, including vivid descriptions of the Israeli battle plan, and his tendency to paint Iran as a new Auschwitz, he also made clear that many of his top Israeli sources simply didn’t believe Iran would launch nuclear weapons against Israel, even if it acquired them.

Nonetheless, Goldberg warned, absent an Iranian white flag soon, Israel would indeed launch that war in summer 2011, and it, in turn, was guaranteed to plunge the region into chaos. The message: the Obama administration better do more to confront Iran or Israel will act crazy.

It's not lost on many of his progressive critics that, when it came to supporting a prospective invasion of Iraq back in 2002, Goldberg proved effective in lobbying liberal America, especially through his reports of "evidence" linking Saddam Hussein and al-Qaeda. Then and now, he presents himself as an interlocutor who has no point of view.  In his most recent Atlantic piece, he professed a "profound, paralyzing ambivalence" on the question of a military strike on Iran and subsequently, in radio interviews, claimed to be "personally opposed" to military action.

His piece, however, conveniently skipped over the obvious inconsistencies in what his Israeli sources were telling him.  In addition, he excluded perspectives from Israeli leaders that might have challenged his narrative in which an embattled Jewish state feels it has no alternative but to launch a quixotic military strike.  Such an attack, as he presented it, would have limited hope of doing more than briefly setting back the Iranian nuclear program, perhaps at catastrophic cost, and so Israeli leaders would act only because they believe the "goyim" won't stop another Auschwitz. Or as my friend Paul Woodward, editor of the War in Context website, so brilliantly summed up the Israeli message to America: "You must do what we can’t, because if you don’t, we will."

Goldberg insists that he is merely initiating a debate about how to tackle Iran and that debate is already underway on his terms -- that is, like its Iraq War predecessor, based on a fabricated sense of crisis and arbitrary deadlines.

Last Friday, the New York Times reported that the Obama administration had convinced Israel that there was no need to rush on the issue.  Should Iran decide to build a nuclear weapon (which it has not done), it would, administration officials pointed out, quickly make its intentions clear by expelling the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) inspectors who routinely monitor its nuclear work, and breaking out of the Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT).  After that, it would still need another year or more to assemble its first weapon.

In other words, despite Goldberg's breathless two-minutes-to-midnight schedule, there's no urgency whatsoever about debating military action against Iran. And then, of course, there’s the question of the very premises of the to-bomb-or-not-to-bomb “debate.”  Perhaps, after all these years of obsessive Iran nuclear mania, it’s too much to request a moment of sanity on the issue of Iran and the bomb.  If, however, we really have a couple of years to think this over, what about starting by asking three crucial questions, each of which our debaters would prefer to avoid or ignore?

1. Does the U.S. have a right to launch wars of aggression without provocation, in defiance of international law and an international consensus, simply on the basis of its own suspicions about another country's future intentions?

Or to put it bluntly, as former National Security Council staffers Flint Leverett and Hillary Mann Leverett have: Does the U.S. have the right to attack Iran because it is enriching uranium?

The idea that the U.S. has the right to take such a catastrophic step based on the fevered imaginations of Biblically inspired Israeli extremists -- Goldberg has previously suggested that Prime Minister Netanyahu believes Iran to be the reincarnation of the Biblical Amalekites, mortal enemies the ancient Hebrews were to smite -- or simply to preserve an Israeli monopoly on nuclear force in the Middle East is as bizarre as it is reckless. Even debating the possibility of launching a military strike on Iranian nuclear facilities as a matter of rational policy, absent any Iranian aggression or even solid evidence that the Iranian leadership intends to wage its own version of aggressive war, gives an undeserved respectability to what would otherwise be considered steps beyond the bounds of rational foreign policy discussion.

Perhaps someone in our media hothouse could take just a moment to ask why, outside of the United States and Israel, there is no support -- nada, zero, zip -- for military action against Iran. In Goldberg's world, this may be nothing more than the eternal beast of anti-Semitism rearing its ugly head in the form of disdain for the rise of yet another Amalek/Haman/Torquemada/Hitler. A more sober reading of the international situation would, however, suggest that most of the international community simply doesn't share an alarmist view of what Iran's nuclear program represents.

Indeed, it is notable that, in Goldberg's world, Arabs and Iranians never get to speak. The Arabs, we are told, secretly want Israel or the U.S. to bomb Iran's nuclear facilities out of fear that the acquisition of nuclear weapons would embolden their Persian rivals.  They are, so the story goes, just not able to say so in public. Of course, when Arab leaders do publicly express their opposition to the idea of another war being launched in the Middle East, they are ignored in the Goldberg-led debate.

Similarly, their rejection of Washington’s long-held premise that Israel's special security must be exempted from any discussion of the creation of a nuclear-free Middle East remains outside the bounds of the Iran-debate story. And don't expect to see any mention of the authoritative University of Maryland annual survey of Arab public opinion either.  After all, it recently reported that, contrary to claims of an Arab world cowering under the threat of Iranian nukes, 57% of the Arab public actually believe a nuclear-armed Iran would be good for the Middle East!

The idea that Iran's regime might exist for any purpose other than to destroy Israel is largely ignored as well. Bizarrely enough, Iranians don’t actually feature much in the American “debate” at all (beyond citations of Mad-Mullah-like pronouncements by some Iranian leaders who wish Israel would disappear). The long, nuanced relationship between Israel and the Islamic Republic, as explained by Trita Parsi, author of Treacherous Alliance: The Secret Dealings of Israel, Iran, and the United States, is simply ignored. So, too, is every indication Iran's leaders have given that they have no intention of attacking Israel or any other country. In fact, in the Goldberg debate, domestic politics in both the U.S. and Israel is understood as an important factor in future decisions; Iran, with the Green Movement presently suppressed, is considered to have no domestic politics at all, just those Mad Mullahs.

2. Even if Iran were to acquire the means to build a nuclear weapon, would that be a legitimate or prudent reason for launching a war?

If Iran is actually pursuing the capability to build nuclear weapons, its leaders would be doing so in response to a strategic environment in which two of its key adversaries, the U.S. and Israel, and two of its sometime friends/sometime adversaries, Russia and Pakistan, have substantial nuclear arsenals. By all sober accounts, Iran's security posture is primarily focused on the survival of its regime. Some Israeli military and intelligence officials have been quoted in Israel's media as saying that Iran's motivation in seeking a nuclear weapon would be primarily to head off a threat of U.S. intervention aimed at regime change.

Most states do not pursue weapons systems as ends in themselves, and most states are hardwired to prioritize their own survival. It is to that end that they acquire weapons systems -- to protect, enhance, or advance their own strategic position, or up the odds against more powerful rivals. In other words, the conflicts that fuel the drive for nuclear weapons are more dangerous than the weapons themselves, and the problem of those weapons can’t be addressed separately from those conflicts.

An Iran that had been bombed to destroy its nuclear power program would likely emerge from the experience far more dangerous to the U.S. and its allies over the decades to come than an Iran that had nuclear weapons within reach. The only way to diminish the danger of an escalating confrontation with Iran is to address the conflict between Tehran and its rivals directly, and seek a modus vivendi that would manage their conflicting interests.

Unfortunately, such a dialogue between Washington and Tehran has scarcely begun, even as, amid alarmist warnings, Goldberg and others insist it must be curtailed so as to avoid the Iranians “playing for time.”

3. Is Iran actually developing nuclear weapons?

No, it is not. That's the conclusion of the CIA, the IAEA, whose inspectors are inside Iran's nuclear facilities, and most of the world's intelligence agencies, including the Israelis.  U.S. intelligence believes that Iran is using a civilian nuclear energy program to assemble much of the infrastructure that could, in the future, be used to build a bomb, and that Iran may also be continuing theoretical work on designing such a weapon.

Washington's spooks and its defense establishment do not, however, believe Iran is currently developing nuclear weapons, nor that its leadership has made the ultimate decision to do so. In fact, the consensus appears to be that Iran will not weaponize nuclear material, but will stop short at "breakout capacity" -- the ability, also available, for instance, to Japan, to move relatively quickly to build such a weapon. Currently, as the New York Times reported, the time frame for “breakout,” if all went well (and it might not), would be about a year, after which Iran would have enough fissile material for one bomb.  (The Israelis, by comparison, are believed to have 200 to 400 nuclear weapons in their undeclared program, the Pakistanis between 70 and 90, and the United States more than 5,000.)  In addition, a credible nuclear deterrent would require the production of not one or two bombs, but a number of them, which would allow for testing.

For ex-CIA Director Hayden, such a breakout capacity would be "as destabilizing as their actually having a weapon."  His is a logical leap that’s hard to sustain, unless you believe that it’s worth launching a war to prevent Iran from, at worst, acquiring a defensive trump card that might prevent it from being attacked.

Iran's enrichment activities are, of course, a violation of U.N. Security Council resolutions backed by sanctions. Those were imposed to demand that Iran suspend its enrichment program until it satisfied concerns raised by IAEA inspectors over its compliance with the disclosure and transparency requirements of the NPT -- especially when it came to aspects of its program which have been developed in secret, raising suspicions over their future use.

Three years before North Korea was in a position to test a nuclear weapon, it had to withdraw from the NPT and kick out IAEA inspectors. Iran remains within the treaty. Even as the standoff over its nuclear program continues, renewed efforts are underway to broker a confidence-building deal to exchange Iranian enriched uranium for fuel rods produced outside the country to power a Tehran reactor that produces medical isotopes.

None of this will be easy, of course. The two main parties are trying to impose their own, mutually exclusive terms on any deal: Washington wants Iran to forego its treaty-guaranteed right to enrich its own uranium because that also gives it the potential means to produce bomb materiel; Iran has no intention of foregoing that right. Such longstanding pillars of foreign policy sobriety as Senator John Kerry  and Colin Powell, former Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and Secretary of State, have publicly deemed the U.S. position untenable.

To suggest that Iran's present nuclear program represents the security equivalent of a clock ticking down to midnight is calculated hysteria that bears no relation to reality. Ah, says Goldberg, but the point is that the Israelis believe it to be so. Yes, replies former National Security Council Iran analyst Gary Sick, now at Columbia University, but the Israelis and some Americans have been claiming Iran is just a few years away from a nuclear weapon since 1992. 

The premises of the debate just initiated by Goldberg's piece are palpably false.  More important, they are remarkably dangerous, since they leap-frog over the three basic questions laid out above and move straight on to arguing the case for war amid visions of annihilation. This campaign of panic is not Goldberg's invention.  It’s been with us for a long time now.  Goldberg is just the present vehicle for an American conversation initiated by others, among them those known in the Bush years as neocons, who have long been dreaming of war with Iran and  are already, as Juan Cole recently indicated, planning for such a war under a future Republican administration, if not sooner.

Similarly, among Israelis, Prime Minister Netanyahu, in particular, believes that Americans are politically feeble-minded; he said as much to a group of Israeli settlers in a video that surfaced recently: "I know what America is. America is a thing you can move very easily, move it in the right direction. They won’t get in [our] way.”

Through Goldberg, the Israeli leader and his aides are seeking to "move America in the right direction" with dark tales of Auschwitz and Amalekites, and of Netanyahu himself as a hostage, in the Freudian sense, to a fierce and unforgiving father who won't tolerate any show of weakness in the face of perceived threats to the Jews. Goldberg's sources, including Netanyahu, make it perfectly clear that they don't believe Iran would attack Israel. Instead, they warn that an Iranian nuclear weapon would embolden Hamas and Hizballah, although the logic there is flimsy indeed.  After all, if Iran would not attack Israel on its own with a nuclear weapon, why would it do so to defend its insurgent allies?

Israeli Defense Minister Ehud Barak has suggested that a nuclear-armed Iran would prompt the best and brightest Israelis to emigrate, because they are clever people who can make a good life for themselves anywhere in the world. Indeed, and they have been doing exactly that for many years now.  Some 750,000 Israeli Jews now live abroad -- one in every six Israelis -- precisely because anti-Semitism is no longer a threat to Jewish life in most of the industrialized world. None of this has anything to do with an Iranian bomb. It has to do with the frustration of Israel’s leadership that 63% of the world's Jews have chosen to live elsewhere.

Despite Goldberg’s panic-inducing prediction, there are plenty of reasons to believe that, for all its bluster and threat, Israel won't, in fact, bomb Iran next year -- or any time soon. But would the Israelis like to see the United States take on their prime regional enemy? You bet they would. Indeed, Netanyahu continually insists that the U.S. has an obligation to take the lead in confronting Iran.

It's patently clear in Goldberg’s piece that the Israelis are trying to create a climate in which the U.S. is pressed onto the path of escalation, adding more and more sanctions, and keeping "all options on the table" in case those don't work.

In an excellent commentary that dismantles the logic of Goldberg's argument, David Kay -- the American who served as an UNSCOM arms inspector in search of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq after the U.S. invasion -- suggests that:

Israel is engaged in psychological warfare with the Obama administration -- and it only partly concerns Iran… [B]eyond Iran, of probably greater importance to the current Israeli government is avoiding the Obama administration pushing it into a choice between settlements and territorial arrangements with the Palestinians that it is unwilling to make and permanent damage to its relationship with the U.S. Hyping the Iranian nuclear program and the need for early military action is a nice bargaining counter... if the U.S. wants to avoid an imminent Israeli strike, it must make concessions to Israel on the Palestinian issues."

Creating a sense of crisis on the Iran front, narrowing U.S. options in the public mind, and precluding a real discussion of U.S. policy towards Iran may serve multiple purposes for various interested groups. Taken together, however, they reduce all discussion to one issue: when to exercise that military option kept "on the table," given the unlikeliness of an Iranian surrender. The debate’s ultimate purpose is to plant in the public mind the idea that a march to war with Iran, as Admiral Hayden put it on CNN, "seems inexorable, doesn't it?"

Inexorable -- only if the media allows itself to be fooled twice.

Tony Karon is a senior editor at TIME.com where he analyzes Middle Eastern and other conflicts. He also blogs on his own website Rootless Cosmopolitan.

Copyright 2010 Tony Karon

 
 
 
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This user has chosen to opt out of the Badges program
01:27 PM on 08/28/2010
Excellent article. The other day, in answer to a post in which I was seeking "conspiratorial" overtones in the almost totally meaningless Great Mosque Debate, Frank 17 offered a connection to the increasing drumbeat for a bombing of Iran. He stated the Imam was connected to the Council on Foreign Relations and the main purpose of pushing this "debate" is to drum up more anti-Other sentiment to increase the tempo. Interesting thought, not sure if it's true. What I do know, is that, usually, things are not what they appear to be on the surface. In this light, and speaking of the strip club closer to WTC than the proposed mosque/community center, wasn't Mohammed Atta's girlfriend a stripper?
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
realitytrumpsbull
two 'alves of coconut!
12:16 PM on 08/28/2010
Well, what happens if Iran DOES get the bomb? Then you'll have three nuclear-armed countries in the region: Israel, Iran, and Pakistan, playing mumbledy-peg with The Button. Won't that be fun? Someday, the religious/political agitators finally froth over, and WOOOSH! Decades/centuries-long struggles, resolved in about 15 seconds. Yep, the pinnacle of humanity, the ability to wipe ourselves off the face of the earth...
This user has chosen to opt out of the Badges program
01:19 PM on 08/28/2010
You might want to check your username, because in this case, it answers your paranoid version. By the way, CAPITALIZING a word doesn't make your point any more RELEVANT to the discussion. I wouldn't fret so much about "religious/political agitators"-try getting a little concerned about aggressive corporate takeover of every aspect of our lives, including foreign policy. And then on to One World Government,...... now, that's something to have paranoid fantasies about.
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01:28 PM on 08/28/2010
I should emphasize that I remain a fan.
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BARRISTER
07:15 AM on 08/27/2010
War never brings Peace. Period.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
realitytrumpsbull
two 'alves of coconut!
12:17 PM on 08/28/2010
Not true, after the second World War, Germany and Italy never tried to invade anyone else...
03:52 AM on 08/27/2010
It might take something as foolish as a US or Israeli strike on Iran to finally shock the American people out of their starry-eyed hypnotic admiration for all things military.
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WilliamL
11:07 AM on 08/26/2010
The Iraq Liberation Act was pushed through congress at the time of the Lewinsky affair under Clinton which stated US supports regime change in Iraq/ removal of Saddam.

When 9-11 occured, the politicy was in place for those who view Saddam as a threat; wanted Saddam out: wanted to change power relationships in the region: view Iraq as a direct threat. Yes, the media played a role but Policy was in place-media always plays a role.

To depend on those countries in the region to take on Iran, if such a weapon was to be developed and deployed is not at all reasonable for the simple reason that those countries in the region that gave birth to a variety of "organizations' that have choose violence as a political means allowed such "organizations" to thrieve, prosper, and carry out their activites with little or no significant attempts by the entire region to eliminate such groups.

The last thing this planet needs is another war and yet it is seeming as if the possibility of such an event grows more and more possible. Not sure if it can even be prevented as some seem to be hell bent on such an act, justified or not.

Clouds are forming for another storm.
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realitytrumpsbull
two 'alves of coconut!
12:22 PM on 08/28/2010
Well, if you listen to the Bible-thumpers(not recommended, they tend to be a fatalistic bunch), they claim The End Is Nigh. And, as more armies and weapons and all that jazz seem to pile up in that entire region of the world, so do the super-duper uber-weapons.

One upshot of this, though, is that if the holy rollers in the middle east DO finally decide to have it out with each other, when the dust finally settles, organized religion and superstition in general will be a lot less popular, worldwide. Let's just hope they don't crack the planet in half when they have their 'final battle'...
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WilliamL
12:45 PM on 08/28/2010
Now that is looking on the bright side.

True.
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Aikaterina
A Greek-American living in California
09:56 AM on 08/26/2010
Many of the editors-owners of media outlets are bought by pro-Zionists, or are themselves Zionists. I don't use the term Israeli or Jew, since many of the citizens of that country and those espousing Judaism are not war-mongering, but seek justice and peace.

Aside from the Zionists (both here and in Israel), the Saudi's, Dubai, UAE are also pushing for us to wage war with Iran. Of the 19 hijackers (9/11), 15 were Saudi, and Bin-Laden is a cousin of the royal family, and is funded by them.

Many of our politicians are supported by the AIPAC, manipulated into their pro-Israel stance, which is not necessarily synonymous with our own national interests.

We've got serious unemployment, two wars already we're trying to extricate from, soaring deficits-debt, and a government protecting corporate crimes (bail-outs, caps-limits on liability, etc.). Corporate malfeasance (failed financial institutions, oil spills, mining explosions, tainted food-drugs, etc.) has created more devastation in this country than al-Qaeda, Hamas and Hezbollah combined could plan or pray for.

To start another war, we'd need to reinstate the draft and to seriously raise taxes. At present we don't have the manpower nor money to fund another military adventure. If Israel, Saudi Arabia, the UAE or Dubai want a war with Iran, let them do it. They've got the money and plenty of manpower. They don't need, and shouldn't expect us to sacrifice our children and pay for their ambitions.
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realitytrumpsbull
two 'alves of coconut!
12:25 PM on 08/28/2010
Well, what do you think it'll take to get all these clowns to cool their jets? I think more interfaith, international conferences, with an emphasis on trying to establish and keep the peace, and ixnay on the agitators and the fist-shaking and rock-throwing. It only takes a child to raze a village...
11:54 PM on 08/25/2010
I don't understand why the US should attack a country that's threatening Israel. I read that it's because we're allies, but I don't see Israeli soldiers dying in our wars. Italians, Poles, Brits and many other countries' soldiers, but not Israel's. Goldberg talks about the support of the American allies in the Middle East -- the Gulf States -- Dubai and what not. Again, these little principalities are allies of the US in what sense? They don't provide troops for our wars, nor will they even speak up when the US is threatened. I presume their alliance must be whispered at secret diplomatic meetings.

I can't help but think that in 15 to 20 years Americans are going to be facing an unexpected crisis and wondering why we wasted all this energy and attention on Israel and the Middle East instead of Mexico.
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11:38 AM on 08/26/2010
I'm not at all sure the people pushing for a war with Iran give a fig what happens to the United States. They're allegiance is to free market multi-national money. When America's sunk, they'll just move on ...like Halliburton setting up shop in Dubai now.

It have nostalgia for a certain old patriotism, too.
03:59 AM on 08/27/2010
Israel's soldiers do not participate as token characters in America's wars of empire in the Middle East because their presence would be too controversial in Muslim nations. But I agree with all your points. The American presence in the Middle East and Central Asia is based on oil interests and the 'special" relationship between the US and Israel. It's hard to tell which nation calls the shots in this relationship.
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realitytrumpsbull
two 'alves of coconut!
12:36 PM on 08/28/2010
Isn't oil the driving force for a lot of things, come right down to it? People have been fighting over oil for about as long as it's been recognized as an oil source. But, thanks to modern technology, and improving literacy worldwide, oil just might be on its' way out, and, the sooner the better, because wasting, yes, wasting all this money on the military to drill another oil well is just plain stupid. Really, it is. Not only does it encourage pollution, because burnt hydrocarbons leave a long 'carbon footprint' but it also creates an internationally unhealthy political environment where you can vote all day long, and it really doesn't matter, because it's the guy with the big shiny silver suitcase full of $100 bills that gives the orders, ultimately. And, before you say 'America', remember that the petro-piggies ARE international, the Saudis have been riding high for years on all that oil money, along with some of their neighbors, and now you have this whole thing where first Britain, then the US, and even France all lurking around in there trying to run things when frankly, most of those folks would have been perfectly happy to just have their little camel farm and live their own lives, but suddenly, here comes all this mainly western influence trying to take over and tell em how to live etc. So yeah, let's keep on with alternatives and maybe learn to do business differently.
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realitytrumpsbull
two 'alves of coconut!
12:38 PM on 08/28/2010
Meant to say 'energy source'. Fingers got ahead of me.
08:16 PM on 08/25/2010
What doesn't seem to be being debated is we can't afford another trillion dollar war particularly for a threat that is not to us.

Why the proposed solution is always military rather than say recognizing Iran (Venezuela as well) survive based on oil revenue, that there is no reason to believe iran if it got a nuclear weapon keeping in mind it's enough for 1-2 nukes worst case scenario presents a threat that justifies a trillion dollar war.

Why wouldn't we instead use MADD deterrent policy, while removing ourselves as the number one consumer of oil from the market crashing oil commodity prices and devastating both agitants venezuela and Iran.

A 500 Billion dollar investment in alternative energy, moving factories to domestic NG, automobiles to electric, and massive investment in making oil obsolete would do much more to stimulate our economy and check iran.

It would also decrease the economic capacity of iran's neighbors to engage in nuclear escalation.

We all know any facility strike can't guarantee success which means the only surety of nuclear program containment would be boots on the ground and another trillion dollar debacle. lets spend the money creating american jobs and american technology to neutralize the iranian threat (even if you assumed it was real) instead.

After all we defeated a superpower the same exact way. Nuclear containment combined with making them economically irrelevant. Iran's already got a disatisfied population whose disatisfaction could only rise and the government weaken as they lost petrodollar income.
KIampfbeobachter
Misanthropic economic and political shaman
10:17 PM on 08/25/2010
The defeated superpower now watches the decline of the "only remaining superpower".
01:18 AM on 08/26/2010
It is unfortunate that the ivy league and military academy policy establishment of my nation lacked the intellectual freedom to realize the natural evolution of the breakdown of the bi-polar world order would be a multi-polar world of multiple great powers we are currently evolving into.

If they had they would have realized the blank check to lord over our allies out of their fear of the soviet sickle and anvil would go away and as the protectionist economic policies of the bi polar world order faded many inherent economic advantages would go as well.

However while we could never impose containment on another great power today, we could on iran. Granted China and Russia would go kicking as they'ld definitely rather us waste a trillion but if we force their hand they'll go along. And quite frankly to the extent they circumvented the policy we'ld benefit from that stabilizing influence on iran.
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tulsey
I was Bill Hicks.
08:06 PM on 08/25/2010
There is still time. Software glitch stalls introduction of "Bomb Iran3, video game hoasted by Johnny MaC. Delays Ivator deployment. Next war: pay for view. Deluxe package: Drunken Mike Love performing at a Bagger show singing what he thinks is "Barbara Ann."
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amleth
big fan of humanity - very often disappointed
05:03 PM on 08/25/2010
We might wish that Goldberg were simply another greedy vicious airhead like most Republicans are these days.

Unfortunately he is intelligent and crafty with language.

His views are therefore much more dangerous than average for his ilk.

"Cui bono?" the Romans asked. Who profits?

Who profits from a war with Iran?

MIC first, then myriad other corporations.

The next canard trotted out will be that we can do a regime change there and take their oil.

Has that happened in Iraq? The same lie was spouted by Cheney, Rove, Kristol, and Rumsfeld.

Make no mistake, Goldberg is a dangerous man.

In our society, we do not muzzle such speakers, so there is a crucial need to see their arguments for what they are: in this case, IMO, jingosim for the purpose of war profiteering.

Peace, best wishes.
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tulsey
I was Bill Hicks.
06:48 PM on 08/25/2010
I concur.
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ProfessorDuh
03:35 PM on 08/25/2010
Can we invade and occupy a couple more countries before our fascist warmongering bankrupts us? Better hurry, though. Our days of blowing up innocent people on the other side of the world will come to an abrupt end when our bankers in China decide to pull the plug.
KIampfbeobachter
Misanthropic economic and political shaman
10:21 PM on 08/25/2010
Two hours ago I checked some Asian pipe line maps and read some accompanying texts.
Iran contrary to Iraq has powerful protector.
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Donald Fannin
03:10 PM on 08/25/2010
Three good questions. Ask one more 4. If Iran gets the bomb, will they can they, use it against the US?

They can and might use it against Israel, Iraq, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, UAE, but not against the US. Let this countries protect themselves. Sell them the weapons to build up their Armies. They are all big boys, have thriving economies partly because they don't have to pay to defend themselves.

If Israel attacks Iran, I would support them. Protect them from UN sanctions, sell them the necessary arms. They are endanger. Iran wants them off the map. Their attack would be justified. But the US is not endanger and we should stay out of it. I wonder if it comes down to it, if even Russia wants an Islamic Iran with the bomb on their border.
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tulsey
I was Bill Hicks.
06:56 PM on 08/25/2010
Arm the big boys? Protect Israel from UN sanctions? Done and done. Thermonuclear delivery device: Ford 150 with shell, parked on K street.
KIampfbeobachter
Misanthropic economic and political shaman
10:26 PM on 08/25/2010
Here I recommend Daniel Ammann's book "The King of Oil".
There is an interesting story about a pipe line through Israel carrying Iranian oil.
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02:19 PM on 08/25/2010
Here's the question: "Does the U.S. have a right to launch wars of aggression without provocation, in defiance of international law and an international consensus, simply on the basis of its own suspicions about another country's future intentions?"

And the answer is another question: If this is of such critical world wide importance, why is no other country (except little Israel wit it's incessant saber rattling) even CONSIDERING and attack against Iran?

Just askin'...
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tulsey
I was Bill Hicks.
07:00 PM on 08/25/2010
And conquer we must, if our cause it is just. And this be our motto: In God is our trust.
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peterg76
Freelance medical transcriptionist
12:02 PM on 08/25/2010
"a similarly flawed media conversation"

Wrong. An *identical* conversation. They're to cheap to hire new writers.
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peterg76
Freelance medical transcriptionist
01:26 PM on 08/25/2010
...too cheap...
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tulsey
I was Bill Hicks.
07:02 PM on 08/25/2010
He couldn't afford the other "O".
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11:21 AM on 08/25/2010
The real question should be whether or not the U.S. should join a war at the behest of a tiny, little 15 million person country who preemptively attacks a much larger country supported by both Russia and China?
11:49 AM on 08/25/2010
Yeah - let's just wait until those maniacs blow up Cleveland!
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11:56 AM on 08/25/2010
Which one? China or Russia?

; o }