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Vicki Larson

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How Not To Save A Marriage

Posted: 08/13/11 12:02 PM ET

After confessing to his wife last year that he'd had flings with numerous women--he wasn't sure how many but guesstimated "about 10" in their five-year relationship -- Mark Owen, a member of the Brit pop band Take That, did what a lot of guys might do to make things better: He tried to buy her back.

Not with Tiffany diamond earrings or a sleek new Mercedes, but the promise of a $3.6 million house.

It must have worked. Although they're still looking for the house of their dreams, they're still together and Take That is out with a new double CD and a tour. No surprise the 39-year-old singer's two kids and wife Emma Ferguson are along for the ride.

It isn't all that unusual for a couple to want to try to reconcile; the devil you know is often better than the one you don't, says Arlene Dubin, author of "Prenups for Lovers."

Says Dubin: "Reconciliation is not uncommon, especially today. When people go through the process, they take a fresh look at themselves and their partners, and they often decide that the good outweighs the bad. They're face to face with the reality of what life would be like without their spouse."

Former supermodel and mom of three Stephanie Seymour called off her divorce from multi-millionaire Peter Brant late last year. And then the newly revived lovebirds promptly did what Owen and Ferguson did--they went townhouse-hunting in tony Central Park neighborhoods.

Divorce is tough, even when it's amicable--it's expensive, emotionally and financially draining, and things can get ugly pretty quick. Throw kids into the mix and the impacts of divorce can be deep and long-lasting. Depending on the issues, it often makes sense to at least try to salvage a marriage, experts agree. And like Owen and Seymour, some couples consider remodeling or moving into a new home for a "fresh start" or going on an exotic vacation to renew the spark as the place to start.

"Very often, its because one partner realizes there's something wrong and thinks that something new--a new home, going on vacation--is going to be the solution," says Hara Estroff Marano, editor at large of Psychology Today and author of "A Nation of Wimps." It's well intentioned, she says, but misguided.

"When these last-ditch efforts are made, it means that the marriage is in trouble," says Michele Weiner-Davis, director of the Divorce Busting Center and author of "The Sex-Starved Marriage" and "The Divorce Remedy." She continues: "While an exotic vacation might be fun or even remind people why they got together in the first place, the problem is, vacations end."

A new home isn't much better, Estroff Marano says. "The very fact of creating a new home can tear a family apart."

Few may know that better than Marni Jameson. "Buying a new house does stir things up," says the syndicated home design columnist and author of "House of Havoc" and "The House Always Wins." Although she knows one couple for whom a new home pushed the reset button on their struggling 25-year marriage, Jameson ended her first marriage when she realized the numerous visits to the new home she and her first husband were considering upgrading to made her ill whenever she envisioned him "walking down the hallway in his bathrobe." She and her second husband started off their marriage by remodeling a home and have since built two more together. "Whenever we got to the point of divorcing, negotiations broke down over who would get the house. Neither of us wanted it. So we slugged it out. In the end, we were too exhausted to do anything drastic, so we made up."

Says Bruce A. Clemens, a longtime Beverly Hills divorce attorney, "Relationships that are already troubled can rarely withstand the stress of remodeling."

But the worst way to try to salvage a marriage may be to have a baby.

"A lot of the time, people are feeling a loss of connection and love in their marriage, so they kind of hold this fantasy that if they have a child that that will bring everything back to being OK," says Oregon therapist Debbie Bensching. "Part of it's an idealization, and the solution to fixing a problem."

It's often the woman's idea, says Colorado social worker and marriage therapist Enda Junkins. "She thinks if she gets pregnant, she can hang onto the husband, because 'We're having this baby together,' which is not a good reason to stay together or to have a child."

Having a baby adds incredible stress on a marriage, Estroff Marano says. "People think having a baby is a kind of a cement and it's generally nothing of the kind. Babies make demands that take time away from each other," she says. "Babies take women out of the workforce, away from peers, it isolates them, and completely takes you away from what you've been doing."

Up to 90 percent of couples say they are stressed, conflicted and less satisfied in their marriage after the birth of a baby, according to the Gottman Institute and other studies. Some of those couples split--about 12.5 percent of couples divorce or separate by the time their first-born is 18 months old, according to Carolyn Pape Cowan and husband Philip Cowan, co-directors of the Schoolchildren and their Families Project and authors of "When Partners Become Parents."

Then the new mom can have an entirely new set of problems--society isn't too keen on single moms, and having a new baby limits a mom's mobility and as well as her desirability in the dating arena, Estroff Marano says.

Of course, the baby doesn't fare any better. "If children come into the world with the burden of saving a marriage, as many do, they sense it," says single dad Joe Sindoni, author of "50 Reasons to Not Have Kids: And What to Do If You Have Them Anyway." Then the child feels responsible if his parents split, or tries to fix things before they do. "It's a big load to put on such little shoulders," he says.

So if a week in Bali, a new or renovated house, or a baby won't salvage a marriage, what will? Not surprisingly, therapists recommend therapy.

Not just anyone, says Weiner-Davis, but a "therapist who believes in the sanctity of marriage, not due to religious reasons necessarily, but because there are far too many unnecessary divorces."

Weiner-Davis believes in marital education, too. Many couples "don't know how to negotiate, collaborate and demonstrate caring about each other's feelings. And believe it or not, these are skills that can be learned."

And if a couple's struggling because of an affair, "both partners need to be curious about (why the affair happened) and delve honestly and deeply into the truth and take a fair share of responsibility for what went wrong," says Janis Abrahms Spring, author of "After the Affair" and "How Can I Forgive You?" "They also need to talk out and listen to each other's hurts, and show they care about what the other is experiencing."

Distractions, she says, "won't heal the wound."

Still, it sounds kind of nice to "delve honestly and deeply into the truth" while learning to "negotiate, collaborate and demonstrate caring about each other's feelings" fresh from the sandy beaches of Bali and back in your new $3.6 million house.


 
 
 

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After confessing to his wife last year that he'd had flings with numerous women--he wasn't sure how many but guesstimated "about 10" in their five-year relationship -- Mark Owen, a member of the Brit ...
After confessing to his wife last year that he'd had flings with numerous women--he wasn't sure how many but guesstimated "about 10" in their five-year relationship -- Mark Owen, a member of the Brit ...
 
 
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
rwgunn
Questioning a truth will not make it false.
05:55 PM on 08/17/2011
Here's my two-cents...
* A relationship is the agreement between the two (or more) people. People outside that relationship really have no say in what is or isn't acceptable in the relationship.
* Communication between the people in a relationship is the most important part of the relationship because communication is what allows the growth experienced by the partners to be translated into growth of the relationship. If the relationship doesn't grow, then the individuals in the relationship (and the growth they are experiencing) will find themselves less and less comfortable in the relationship. This discomfort often is the basis for fights that happen in the relationship. The partners may not even realize what is causing them to be uncomfortable, so they keep looking for and picking at whatever minor thing they find, trying to resolve the irritation.
* Communication also means taking a step back and discussing what the agreements are in the relationship. There are too many times where the same word or phrase can be used by two people and later they find that its meaning was nowhere near the same for the two of them. Also, the overly cute phrase "Assume makes an 'Ass' out of 'U' & 'Me'. " is never so true as it is in a relationship.

Loving someone means that their happiness is required for your happiness.
06:26 PM on 08/21/2011
I agree with you. Communication and respect are key elements. But it still doesnt make a good argument for why people should be married. Two people can be in a committed relationship without having to be married. You do not have to be married to be in a committed relationship.
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Al91206
Educating the right on why they are wrong.
04:31 PM on 08/17/2011
Step 1 - accept house in her name only
Step 2 - divorce him
Step 3 - tell him: Take THAT!
06:15 PM on 08/17/2011
You forgot a step:

Step 1 - accept house in her name only
Step 2 - get pregnant
Step 3 - divorce him and get spousal and child support
Step 4 - tell him: Take THAT!

This is what feminism has been working for all these years after all.
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01:12 AM on 08/21/2011
No. Feminism allowed us to get better pay and work in professions from which our mothers and grandmothers were barred. So we can say 'buh bye' and walk out the door.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Feminism is dead
It's true.
11:18 AM on 08/17/2011
'How Not to save a Marriage'

-Read Vicki Larson's blogs.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Vicki Larson
Journalist, mother, thinker
04:29 PM on 08/17/2011
@Feminism is Dead — I'll take that as a compliment ...
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Feminism is dead
It's true.
04:44 PM on 08/17/2011
Well, you are in the Divorce Section after all.

It's not like you run the marriage column or anything.
09:57 AM on 08/17/2011
My parents used to have terrible fights, most of the time in front of me and my little sister and it had quite a negative effect on me. I was older, and for whatever reason, more sensitive to the arguments, and sometimes I wonder if I would have been better off now as an adult, if they had become divorced. The odd thing is, they stuck together because of us, and now they are both 60 and NEVER even argue. They became a team, maybe because of all they overcame together. I am 34, single, and my last relationship ended 3 years ago. I have no desire to date, and have now come to think that maybe being single is the best route for some people. I get bored very quickly with everything in life so why put myself and someone else through that just 'because'.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Feminism is dead
It's true.
02:44 PM on 08/17/2011
Generally, the children who experience divorce tend to follow one of their parents for lasting moral guidance. Almost always, this tends to lead towards alienation of the other parental figure, and strengthens the role of the desired parental figure in a tinge of bitterness. The effects on a child from divorce increase the likelihood of alienating themselves from one parent, only to be overly insulated by the other. This also is exacerbated by fruitless psychological avenues and possible chemical influences.

If a young boy's parents get a divorce for example, and he lives with his father who is constantly degrading his mother, the boy's view of women will be altered and he will extend that philosophy to any potential partner, more than likely a woman.(see abusive relationships)

If however the young boy is raised specifically by the mother, who is constantly degrading the father, then the boy's view towards his father is altered entirely. This also tends to create an 'overnurtured' environment, where the boy cannot form a lasting romantic relationship as the result of a lack of notable and memorable interaction between his mother and father (aside from court and yelling)

So in short, be thankful your parents stayed together. They did it for you, but it also made them have something to share and live for. Even if they wanted to get a divorce, they proved that their marriage can last, for you. Make that legacy mean something in your own way. They'll be proud regardless.
06:42 PM on 08/21/2011
Parents of children who are in their 30's stayed married because that was the expected norm back then. Besides, it's hard enough finding the right person when you are young let alone when you already have one foot in the grave. 60 years old is pretty old to begin dating again.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Mary Eyer
08:12 AM on 08/17/2011
"both partners need to be curious about (why the affair happened) and delve honestly and deeply into the truth and take a fair share of responsibility for what went wrong,"

This sentence really bothers me. I guess the assumption is that if one partner cheats, it's because the other partner is not meeting their needs. But I don't buy that. If your partner is not meeting your needs, then there should be other options than breaking your own promises. You could tell them that not meeting your needs is apt to ruin the marriage, for instance. If you tell them and they do nothing to fix it, at least you are not responsible for the failure of the marriage and default of trust. No matter what the cause, lying and hiding in a relationship supposedly based on trust is apt to lead to big problems that are hard to fix.

And there is always the possibility that the non-cheating partner did nothing wrong, (it's even possible that they have a great sex life and act like lovers regularly); it's just that the cheater likes variety, the chase, the thrill of the affair and is not willing to give up either the stable relationship or the cycle of affairs. Narcissists can be like that. Perhaps the key word is "fair share"; in some cases that would be zero on one side and 100% on the other.
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Vicki Larson
Journalist, mother, thinker
12:51 PM on 08/17/2011
@Mary Eyer — "I guess the assumption is that if one partner cheats, it's because the other partner is not meeting their needs."

I don't think that's the assumption at all, or if it is, it's misguided. If it takes two people to make a "good" marriage, it takes two to cause one to fall apart. That does not necessarily mean it's 50-50, but it would never be 0-100.

If a man or woman marries someone who's a narcissist­. as you say, or who "likes variety, the chase, the thrill of the affair," there were most likely signs of that behavior during dating, engagement and throughout the marriage. If the non-cheating partner is either oblivious to the signs or ignores them, well, he/she is responsible for that.
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blarneydude
I can handle the truth. Now let's talk about you.
11:58 AM on 08/16/2011
Good article. It

1) Highlights the ridiculous.

"Jameson ended her first marriage when she realized the numerous visits to the new home she and her first husband were considering upgrading to made her ill whenever she envisioned him "walking down the hallway in his bathrobe." She and her second husband started off their marriage by remodeling a home and have since built two more together. "Whenever we got to the point of divorcing, negotiations broke down over who would get the house. Neither of us wanted it. So we slugged it out. In the end, we were too exhausted to do anything drastic, so we made up."

HINT, dodobird: DON'T BE HER THIRD HUSBAND. To be her first or second was bad enough.

2) Gives maybe the best advice in the entire history of marriage advice.

To which let me add:

ANYTHING you do to 'save the marriage' that does not focus on the marriage, i.e., on the relationship BETWEEN THE TWO OF YOU, absent distractions and toys, will relentlessly find the cracks in your relationship, and turn them into chasms.
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surfandshop
"What we think, we become."
11:20 AM on 08/16/2011
My husband wes so unhappy with me, so I got a babysitter to stay with our three kids so we could spend time together. I got a phone call 11 months later that they were having an affair, and he told me " it was all your fault for leaving us togetger alone".. What the heck???. This is Not the way to save a marriage.
10:37 AM on 08/16/2011
Best to stay single then.
You can be with anyone you like and it's never cheating.
You have the whole bed to yourself.
Nobody to beat you up, belittle you, scream at you.
Nobody to clean up after.
Nobody to take couples' therapy with (it doesn't work! it only works to fatten the therapist's bank account!).
No compromises.
No spying.
Marriage (or its equivalent of living together) is overrated. People do it out of tradition, loneliness or financial
motives. But in my view, it's just not good for ya!
Downside: you have nobody to take out the garbage, or give you back-rubs......
abhorson
Si Si Chiquita. There's a woman worth her ransom
03:15 AM on 08/17/2011
good God.. .were you married to Atilla the Hun ?
05:10 AM on 08/17/2011
Haha, yes that would be an accurate comparison
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Feminism is dead
It's true.
11:47 AM on 08/17/2011
Or maybe...Mokum is Atilla the Hun, grappling to deal with the 21st century?
03:26 AM on 08/17/2011
+1
10:03 AM on 08/16/2011
Marriage requires work from both sides. People go to work everyday, knowing they have to keep a job to make a living, but many fail to put that same effort into a marriage. As soon as things get rocky, they're ready to dump it all because things aren't going the way they invisioned it all. Too many people go into a marriage thinking if it doesn't work out, there's always divorce. Marriage works when there's mutual respect for each other regarding individuality, keeping communication open, and willingness to work at it. It pays off.....promise.
08:29 AM on 08/16/2011
marriage, a concept of ancient and obsolete origins. marriage has caused more problems where none had existed prior to the ceremony. ceremony=tradition=ancient training. what drives people to do this? guilt? fear? slavery? religion? money? lol?
10:54 PM on 08/16/2011
Realizing Starbucks isn't a real chick drives a man to seek a human bride. ☺
05:43 PM on 08/19/2011
then realizing that religion and currency are all lies does what to humans? religion and currency have values that are wholly controlled by a certain few, where does your reality fit in? what does religion and currency drive people to do?
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Feminism is dead
It's true.
11:35 AM on 08/17/2011
Originally, it was done to create a bond or an extension to a tribe or family. Dowries were used as a bartering tool, and marriages were intended to generate either offspring or a trade partnership at best.

All it does now is enslave and emasculate individuals for the gain of skeevy dudes and husks of fertility like the author.
05:35 PM on 08/19/2011
i would be helpful if there are more thinkers like you in this day and age. religion and currency are driving humans into dire straits. religion=mental damage, currency=inked paper for your lives and resources. you need to be mentally damaged to give your life and resources. marriage is a derivative of religion and currency.
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02:33 AM on 08/16/2011
the most common question should not be, "why don't you get married?" or "when are you going to get married?". It should be , "why do you want to get married?" or "have you really thought about whether this is what you really want long term?". "Forever" may be better left to friendship -not sexual partners.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
newzbug11
12:56 AM on 08/16/2011
It's not that buying a new house makes you happy, it's that in starting over with your marriage, you want to put the old place behind you where you had so many unhappy memories.
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blarneydude
I can handle the truth. Now let's talk about you.
12:04 PM on 08/16/2011
Yes, but is that really the problem?

It's never the place (and if it IS the place, the marriage should never have happened). It IS the memories - of which you can create a complete Memorial Edition right there in your new 'love' nest.

ANYTHING you do 'to reconcile' that isn't the two of you focusing on the two of you is a mine field waiting to blow up.
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Vicki Larson
Journalist, mother, thinker
12:54 PM on 08/17/2011
@newzbug11 — I'd say if you could work on the marriage first, sure — go out an buy a new house together to celebrate your new togetherness. But do it after you do the hard stuff, not as a way to avoid the hard stuff.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
newzbug11
07:48 AM on 08/19/2011
I agree, as a reward for all the hard work of getting things back together. I know I would have a hard time going back to where so many problems lingered, even though there were positive memories as well.
09:52 PM on 08/15/2011
the problem is married men stop dating their wives

and also everyone gets fat

im a no it all

im fat at least
AllyCat7
Snarks need not reply.
01:39 PM on 08/17/2011
lol

I always tell my boyfriends that I'll make sure I don't get fat after marriage (unless I'm preggo) and that they better do the same :D
08:46 PM on 08/17/2011
u no the guys getting fat lol
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Mr Anonymous
Mumpsimus, I am not entertained!
10:19 PM on 08/17/2011
The same should go about women and dating also. And, try to keep some kind of mystique. I saw way more then I wanted to with my ex-wife. It almost turned me off of women. Keyword there is almost.

I don't know how many times she would say come here. Then when I got there it was, hey look at this.
10:48 PM on 08/17/2011
what are you talking about...

you saw more,,,,,

she said come here and,,,,

what
AllyCat7
Snarks need not reply.
07:12 PM on 08/18/2011
Haha I agree. And I think the mystique should go both ways. There are many bodily functions you should not be sharing with your spouse. I also think men should not watch women give birth. Additionally, women and men should learn how to separate the way they talk to each gender. Women don't want to hear locker room jokes and men don't want to talk about nail polish and the Bachelorette. Basically, I'm agreeing with you 100% :D Separation, space, and mystique are key.
06:18 PM on 08/15/2011
Way to go Ms Larson, woman should go with the highest bidder. If he doesn't have enough dough to buy you 3.6 mil house when ever you ask for it, he's not good enough for you, even if he's otherwise good for you, faithful to you, good father to your kids etc. But anyway all those things do not count if he can by aforementioned house.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Vicki Larson
Journalist, mother, thinker
12:21 AM on 08/16/2011
@Hetneo — Huh? Did you actually read the article?
05:24 AM on 08/16/2011
Yep, and after 3rd reading what you said is still in conflict with most of the quotes you have put here.
abhorson
Si Si Chiquita. There's a woman worth her ransom
03:31 AM on 08/17/2011
well buddy, the problem seems to be starring you in the face.... "faithful, good to you", 'patient father'... you probably cook, clean, take out the garbage, listen and communicate, God forbid you go pick out tile for the kitchen together ...

that poor woman is subconsciously so sick of you and dreaming of having a man - she's the one who should be buying YOU a 3.6 million $ house ....
05:07 AM on 08/17/2011
LOL you think that you have insulted my manhood or sss? Are you serious? I don't need to abuse my woman so I would feel like a man, like you obviously do need. Do you know me? Ever met me face to face? No. Being bully and abusing weaker than yourself is not sign of manhood. Too bad we will never meet face to face, it would be real eye opener for you. You don't know me, you don't know who I am and what I'm capable of doing. Maybe I will never meet you and won't be able to teach you a lesson, but mind your language around men, someone else might decide that teaching you a lesson is a time well spent and will be close enough to you to do it.
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Walrus Man
05:00 PM on 08/15/2011
When one of them quit, there is no return. Many people think that getting married are going to become less promiscuous(if they have been), but sooner or latter they realize that they can't. Many others after getting married, learn about many things about their partners, things that weren't in they dictionaries, like hygienic habits, false anatomical expectations, False economical calculation and/or expectations etc.
abhorson
Si Si Chiquita. There's a woman worth her ransom
03:39 AM on 08/17/2011
I know what you mean about those "false anatomical expectations" ... my wife was stuffing her bra right up until our wedding night... by then, too late...

I've been unsuccessfully trying to get her to "quit" ever since... but she sensed weakness and a lack of resolution and so the decades pass....
AllyCat7
Snarks need not reply.
01:43 PM on 08/17/2011
What do you mean by "quit"?
06:03 AM on 08/22/2011
Yeah... Nothing worse than having "false anatomical expectations"... LMAO!! Ladies, better make sure I that Extenz stuff works before you get married.