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Vlatko Vedral

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A Post-Quantum World

Posted: 02/24/2012 4:25 pm

From OUPblog

A couple of years ago I published a book called Decoding Reality, in which I argued that the most fundamental units of reality are not energy or matter, but bits of information. I also claimed that this resolves the age old issue of creation ex nihilo, namely how something can be created out of nothing. The answer, I maintained, was in the fact that the bits of information making up the universe are quantum. Quantum physics is based on the idea that information can be created completely spontaneously, namely without any preexisting information.

Most of you science buffs out there will, of course, know that science progresses in abrupt jumps, and every once in a while a new theory gets discovered that forces a radical departure from previously held views. I indeed viewed the evolution of science, through what the philosopher Karl Popper called the process of "conjectures and refutations," as another instance of information processing. But if it's not unlikely that quantum physics will one day be surpassed, then what confidence should you have in my main thesis? Could it be that the new theory will claim that some other entity -- and not a bit of information -- is yet more fundamental? In other words, will the post-quantum reality be made up of some other stuff?

I believe that the answer to this question is "no."

For a start, quantum physics is really well-established. It's had about 100 years of complete success as far as experiments. In fact, quantum physics is so accurate that we physicists are getting desperate (let's be honest here: we'd love it to fail, since this opens the door to discovering a new theory, and for a physicist this is the easiest way of entering the Physics Hall of Fame). Even the weirdest of quantum predictions (what Einstein termed "spooky action at a distance") are now established beyond reasonable doubt. Quantum objects seem to know about each other in a way not allowed in the classical world, and even when these objects are far apart they act as an inseparable whole.

The fact that quantum spookiness is so well established means that if the new theory comes along, it cannot imply that the world is less spooky than quantumly. The post-quantum world can only be even spookier!

Now, people are studying all sorts of post-quantum scenarios theoretically (it's good to do this kind of stuff since one never knows where a breakthrough will come from -- these are the "unknown unknowns"). And it so happens that they all have to maintain the same degree of genuine randomness as quantum physics. It is not easy to see this -- not because the arguments are intrinsically difficult, but because they are lengthy (it all goes back to spookiness, so please trust me on this one).

The random creation of information, according to the above logic, will remain in post-quantum physics and therefore, bits of information will still be in the best position of explain the creation of everything out of nothing.

Interestingly enough, some other ideas also survive the onslaught of post-quantum physics. I have studied this recently with my colleagues Markus Mueller of Perimeter Institute and Oscar Dahlsten of Singapore. We have found that the link between information and disorder (as quantified by the infamous entropy) remains in the new theories. This implies, for instance, that the link between the black hole entropy and its area (quantified by the famous Bekenstein-Hawking formula) is also likely to continue to be true.

So, are any predictions in my book going to be wrong if quantum physics fails? Yes, and possibly many. One of them is that I argued for developing quantum technology -- quantum computers -- and described its advantages over the present technology. If quantum physics fails, then we have to construct technology based on the new physics (but this is good news, since this can only be even more powerful). Likewise, I argued that living systems might be using quantum physics to process information more efficiently. This too fails in the post-quantum world, which again is likely to be good news, but it might also bring a new twist on the relationship between physics and biology. Could it be, as one of the pioneers of quantum physics Erwin Schroedingeralluded a long time ago, that biology will force us to come up with new laws of physics?

We are all busy thinking that a new theory will come by studying quantum physics and gravity and that we need to probe smaller and smaller regions of space and time to get there. But, maybe in order to explain the existence of life we need to come up with another theory of physics -- something going well beyond quantum physics.

Read more at OUPblog

 
From OUPblog A couple of years ago I published a book called Decoding Reality, in which I argued that the most fundamental units of reality are not energy or matter, but bits of information. I also c...
From OUPblog A couple of years ago I published a book called Decoding Reality, in which I argued that the most fundamental units of reality are not energy or matter, but bits of information. I also c...
 
 
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DAE
12:14 AM on 03/02/2012
The whole idea of something from nothing is a logical fallacy. The "nothing" has to have an innate quality of some sort. If quantum physics cannot define what that quality is then some sort of post-quantum physics will. If information is infinite there will be a post-post quantum physics and the regression so engendered will continue on ad infinitum. If information is finite than there is the potential to know everything, including the basis of nothingness. So the argument of something from nothing is an argument reductio ad absurdum.
04:48 AM on 03/02/2012
"The whole idea of something from nothing is a logical fallacy."

I guess that's why nobody is proposing it. It does live comfortably in strawman heaven, though.

:-)

I couldn't even grok the rest... it was so confused.

:-)
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DAE
09:51 AM on 03/02/2012
That's because you don't understand.
08:41 PM on 02/29/2012
It is, of course, very easy to prove that quantum theory is incorrect... all it takes is ONE experiment that deviates measurably from the predictions of its quantum mechanical model.

So far that experiment hasn't been devised, though... and I don't see much coming out of the corner of the "critics" of quantum theory on that front.
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12:14 PM on 02/29/2012
I think someone needs to look into the Total Perspective Vortex.
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01:32 PM on 02/27/2012
Something out of nothing, I love it. But, of course, that "nothing" is not really nothing, is it? It's a nothing as defined by the laws of quantum physics, which gives us the possibility of a "void" out of which a quantum fluctuation of some sort may occur resulting in this universe. Now, where did those quantum laws come from?

Not to mention that, if your theory is correct, then it assumes that these fluctuations have continued continuously. Otherwise, it seems like a real long shot (maybe one requiring some sort of supernatural creator) to not only have ONE of those fluctuations but for that SOLE fluctuation to have resulted in a universe so exquisitely and, frankly, bizarrely tuned to bring forth life-----e.g., just what is that cosmological constant which cosmologists thought would be zero?---something ALMOST zero but NOT QUITE?

So then we've got an INFINITE number of potential universes. Sounds to me like metaphysics, not physics. As the ability to develop more powerful microscopes (CERN) and telescopes (Hubble, etc) has about reached the limit, we'll probably never be able to answer ultimate questions. Which is about where we are at. So instead we're told to rely on math which leads us to these INFINITE universe theories or superstring formulas which, as Witten himself acknowledges, may be INFINITE as well.

Nope, I think the next frontier is the interaction between consciousness and so-called reality (e.g., what causes the "wave function" to collapse?)
03:08 PM on 02/27/2012
You sound utterly confused. You may want to lay off the physics layman literature for a while and start, again, by repeating the science classes in high school.
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Rich Cash
Enlisted in 1971 - Retired in 1996
12:58 AM on 02/28/2012
CERN microscope? Really? lol
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verflixed
It will come to pass
12:32 AM on 03/02/2012
I don't care what anybody says you still can not jump over your own shadow unless you take a photograph of it.
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plansmaker
There Is No Such Thing As Infinity In Science
10:51 PM on 02/26/2012
Everything is subject to change in this universe. That includes "Quantum Mechanics".
There is no "Holy Bible" in science. That would been too easy!
12:56 AM on 02/27/2012
Everything is subject to change in SCIENCE. In the universe everything has been the same since time began and will be the same till time ends.
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Dallas Dunlap
07:34 AM on 02/27/2012
SwiftJonathan - How sure are you that time will end? For that matter, how sure are you that time is real?
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plansmaker
There Is No Such Thing As Infinity In Science
12:25 PM on 02/27/2012
Now that's a statement with no beginning and no end...like God himself.
Our science is in an infantile stage of development. There are much to learn about surrounding universe and purpose of our existence.
"Space and Time" is a human concept that's likely to fall flat in the realm of Dark Matters and Neutrinos.
80% of universe is made of such exotic materials where Quantum Mechanics do not apply because there is no solid data about them. Even we did obtain information about alien worlds, it would be mind bending to say the least...
I believe there is a limit how much human capable understanding the new frontier. Greater intelligence intervention is probably necessary to further our cause in the universe.
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Goffy
Linpossible Linzilla Linferno Lintegrity Lintastic
02:21 PM on 02/26/2012
Now, That's thinking out side of "Quantum" box.
The rewards will be new physics theories and scientific discoveries.
Issac Newton is old school only be surpassed by likes of Albert Eisenstein.
If Albert Einstein is the old school with his theory of relativity, who is the next genus take humanity down the road to enlightenment?
To make breakthrough, one must think outside of his/hers environment. this is especially important in fields of science and medical research.
03:05 PM on 02/26/2012
Newton is old school? And has been surpassed? Tell that to the structural engineer who designed your house or office building. Tell that to the people at Boeing who designed the 787 using Newton. Tell that to the flight controllers at NASA who are guiding dozens of space probes through the entire solar system with... plain old school, surpasses Newtonian mechanics.

Or tell that to your brain which keeps you walking, running, jumping and dancing... by making the necessary Newtonian calculations in real time to keep your body from collapsing or bumping into things all the time.

:-)
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Goffy
Linpossible Linzilla Linferno Lintegrity Lintastic
04:14 PM on 02/26/2012
You still thinking like a flatlander...Swift.
The way science works is to build from past experience.
Standing on the shoulders of giants, Giants like Copernicus, Aristotle, Newton and Einstein (old school), is how we advance science & technology.
The new schools of physics are sure to come, if history is our guild.
The big breakthrough is likely to come once scientists conducting experiments outside of Earth environment. Newtonian Laws works well here on planet Earth and within our solar system (flatlanders), its unlikely to suffice in places like alien worlds.
The difference between religions and science is... variables. In religions there is no variables. it is what it is. However, science needs constant change of variables to feed its growth. Perhaps, God have the last laugh!
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SKSagar
Superconsciousness switched on the bigbang
12:49 PM on 02/26/2012
I do not know what is the point the author is trying to drive home.
`` For a start, Quantum Physics is really very well established``….Who doubts this?
``Will the post quantum reality be made of some other stuff?``..Why ask this question?... Reality is forever made up of the same stuff, except that it gets understood better with time.
Have we discarded Classical physics and determinism?... No we haven’t.
A serious understanding of the laws of causation will reveal that even the motion of quantum particles is guided by classical interactions.
Consider Roger Penrose`s statement:
``Probabilities do not arise at the minute quantum level of particles, atoms or molecules – these evolve deterministically – but seemingly via some mysterious larger scale action connected with the emergence of a classical world that we can consciously perceive`` …Emperor`s New Mind.
Even the Big bang will someday be explained by the laws of causation.
Perhaps it was the super consciousness of the last stages of the previous universe that prepared the programme with a built in Anthropic Principle.
03:07 PM on 02/26/2012
He is trying to convince you that he can look farther than you, when, in reality, he is blinded by his own opinion about himself.
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01:47 PM on 02/27/2012
If the author fully thought through his "something out of nothing" theory, he'd have to agree with your "super consciousness" theory.

Why?

Well, because his theory, though he doesn't mention it, assumes that these "something out of nothing" quantum fluctuations have been continuing FOREVER. The consequence of that, which physicists acknowledge, is that there are an INFINITE number of universes. Though the physicists then say that ONLY a TINY sliver of those universes support life, they seem to forget that even a tiny sliver of an infinite number is itself infinite.

The consequences of that? Well, that anything which CAN exist does exist an infinite number of times in an infinite number of variations. Who could then possibly doubt that consciousness has evolved far beyond our own to the point where it has mastered "creating" a universe such as ours or, at least, creatures such as us who EXPERIENCE the universe as we experience it through our consciousness WHATEVER the quote/unquote reality out there really is.

Why might that consciousness do such a thing? Well, how about out of boredom with their likely immortal existence?
03:10 PM on 02/27/2012
I would repeat my advice... stop reading things that you can't understand and start reading things that you may be able to... like Newtonian mechanics on the high school level. It's plenty to keep you busy for a year or so and it will lead to greater insight from which you can, slowly, bootstrap yourself to modern physics.
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djekizian
Freelancer
10:39 AM on 02/26/2012
Am I the only one who didn't get what this article is about? It's difficult enuf to wrap one's brain around quantum physics without this sort of subjective blathering.
03:08 PM on 02/26/2012
You aren't. I felt the same way and I have to question the people at Oxford who hired this guy.
07:19 AM on 02/26/2012
Language is conceptual. Information is a concept. You say that space-time consists of information. What does this mean? Information is not a medium. Media exist to encode information so that it may be captured, stored and moved. Media has substance. Information does not. Their relationship is contingent. (A piece of paper can have anything written on it.)

To name the basic component of the universe ''information'' seems to be an exercise in the manipulation of meaning.

Information is abstract. It does not exist in space-time. (You cannot see, feel or touch it, only means whereby it is encoded).

It exists intermittent at moments of decoding and encoding. (It has no persistence of existence).

It is dependent upon consciousness to exist. If no-one can decode, the encoded is lost - as in certain dead languages.

Creating a new meaning for the word ''information'' carries dangers of reification arising because of existing uses. So, why do it? Why not use another word?

(Reification is a process whereby any contents of the abstract domain are treated as having objective existence in space-time). Reification is the causal process in the development of religion and myth.
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SKSagar
Superconsciousness switched on the bigbang
09:56 AM on 02/26/2012
agreed + FF ... specially the line `Information is dependent upon consciousness to exist`.
03:11 PM on 02/26/2012
Information is not "abstract". Physics (specifically thermodynamics) assigns a very real amount of energy, entropy and power to information, depending on which aspect of information processing (storage or transmission) you are looking at. Every EE in communications engineering (including the ones who designed the crucial parts of your cell phone and its cellular network or your wireless router) can explain that to you.
03:49 PM on 02/26/2012
The thing you call ''information'' is not information. Find another word and you will not cause confusion.

Machines do not contain information. They contain encoded data which when decoded by a living person becomes information. By using word ''information'' in sense you do, you create a host of problems.

EDP in everyday language deals in information. But it does not really. It deals in code. Books in everyday language contain information. But they do not really. They contain code,. Code only becomes information when decoded.

Shifting from loose EDP usage to explaining fundamental composition of the universe? No.
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KcajDam
Juste un reflet
04:52 AM on 02/26/2012
Il faut étudier l' "énergie du vide" !!!

"Ils me traitèrent de fou en 1896 lorsque j'annonçai la découverte des rayons cosmiques. Ils n'eurent de cesse de se moquer de moi, puis, des années après, ils purent vérifier que j'avais raison. A présent, je présume que l'histoire se répétera quand j'affirmerai avoir découvert une source d'énergie jusqu'ici inconnue, une énergie sans limites et qu'il est possible de canaliser..." Nikola Tesla.

La maîtrise des sources d' "énergie cosmique" libérera l'humanité ! Kc ;-\
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11:07 AM on 02/25/2012
If after 100 years science is still unable to deal with or even really face the implications of the vacuum catastrophe, I'd argue that we don't really even understand quantum physics yet. And knowing about action at a distance seems a long way from knowing about the how. I don't think the problem is physics, but that no physicist has truly gone there yet.
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11:33 AM on 02/25/2012
Just because we don't fully understand it doesn't mean it isn't well established. What we do understand is fairly well-tested.
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02:18 PM on 02/25/2012
“If after 100 years science is still unable to deal with or even really face the implications of the vacuum catastrophe, I'd argue that we don't really even understand quantum physics yet?"

Well the only reason we know ANYTHING about quantum physics is because of scientists. The actual term "quantum" as applied to the mechanics of particles at the that level was coined by a physicist, Max Planck, who was attempting to solve a problem in classical physics. But you seem to be sneering at scientists and physicists as if you somehow understood these things better than they do. Please correct me if I'm wrong by expressing your admiration for the genius of the people who came up with these concepts.
The cornerstones of quantum mechanics, Pauli's Exclusion Principle, The Uncertainty Principle, Planck's Constant, Schrodinger's equations describing the wave function, Dirac's quantum theory of the electron, are all (as their names often suggest) the product of physicists. And so is the concept of quantum entanglement or action at a distance. And yet you assert that physicists "haven't gone there" Not only have they "gone there" they are the ONLY people to have done so in any meaningful way. And they've come back and told us about it, if that's not extending an already flimsy metaphor too far.
12:46 AM on 02/25/2012
I am a physicist and I have to say that I could not make one BIT of sense of this.

:-)
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Rich Cash
Enlisted in 1971 - Retired in 1996
01:34 AM on 02/25/2012
Swift, I've been trying to comment on your last reply to my post for the last two hours or so, but HP keeps saying your reply hasn't been approved yet. Anyway, I agree that chemical rockets are about as effiecient as we can make them, but we still need to find cheaper ways to put payloads into orbit, such as mag-lev based rail launchers at the equator, or space-elevators. Chemical rockets are a primitive method at best.
There must be a better, cheaper way.
05:01 PM on 02/25/2012
I am all for new technologies like mag-lev mass accelerators, but they merely replace a difficult and expensive solution with an even more difficult and more expensive one. I was doing calculations for mass drivers for years and I can't see how one can make them work economically below the million ton a year regime... above which they could be wonderful... so if we were to build a real "Enterprise", they would do well. But that's a very long way off.

And the space elevator (or towers etc.), they work great on planets like Mars... but Earth is really the end of the spectrum. And, again, we are merely replacing one problem (enormous amounts of kinetic energy) with another one (enormous amount of static energy in the tension of the cable)... it's not really a win once you analyse the concept in detail. That's very normal for engineering... one can replace one complex technology with another, but one can never make the total amount of complexity go away.
05:01 PM on 02/25/2012
As for the chemical rockets being primitive, well, so are combustion engines and turbines, but boy are they performing well in real life! The only problem with rocket is that the machine gets lost every time we launch one. If we did that with cars and planes, both driving and flying would be completely unaffordable. But once we can reuse the machine, the total cost comes down considerably. Not by nearly as much as the proponents of new space hope, though. The key cost driver will still stay the launch crew and the refurbishing crew. It's already one of the major cost components in civil aviation. It is the major component in flying helicopters. It will be the absolutely overwhelming cost component in rocketry, even in the future. So maybe we can lower launch cost to 10% of what they are today, not sure it will go to much less than that without casualties.
07:22 AM on 02/26/2012
Please see if my comment above makes any sense. Thanks.
06:37 PM on 02/26/2012
No, it doesn't. Sorry.

This is not rocket science. It's information theory and that's very well established and has been for over half a century.
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jf12
When I saw her I marveled greatly.
12:32 AM on 02/25/2012
In the usual units, action is not dimensionless like bits or qubits. In units such that action is dimensionless, entropy is not dimensionless. Landauer showed the fundamental thing that is dissipated in information processing is entropy (in energy units). Anyway, essentially there are indeed parts and components to information bits - the combination of conjugate variables in the uncertainty principle for example.