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William Bradley

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Why the Clintons Need Obama to Win: Uncertainty as Hillary Pushes the Big Geopolitical Pivot

Posted: 07/13/2012 4:10 pm

There has been a recurrent buzz about the Clintons, or at least some of their notable minions, being not all that keen on Barack Obama's re-election. Bill Clinton himself added to it greatly when he lauded Mitt Romney as a great businessman and defended Bain Capital, Romney's leveraged buyout and private equity shop. Early this week, their longtime fundraiser, Hillary Clinton's 2008 presidential campaign chair Terry McAuliffe, kicked up some concern when he made some comments on a cable chat show with Haley Barbour lauding the low regulation/low-tax style of Mississippi, and by extension Romneynomics, as a good thing.

I don't buy it. I think Hillary Clinton is by far best served by an Obama re-elect. Otherwise, her legacy is at best an incomplete, as her and Obama's plans are in mid-course. And Bill's foundation wouldn't be helped by a Romney presidency. Especially if President Romney, an infelicitous and unlikely phrase to be sure, is looking at a Hillary candidacy in 2016.

So how to explain this week's McAuliffe comments, and the Bill Clinton comments before? (Keeping in mind that the former president has campaigned with Obama.) It feels to me like the result of a lot of proximity to very big money on their parts.

After all, Clinton has switched from his ostentatiously populist Timex of his presidential days to collecting ultra-luxe watches that cost more than most BMWs. (Let's credit Joe Biden for not pretending with a Timex and keeping it real with an Omega Seamaster, a luxury watch that costs less than a used Vespa.) Clinton has dabbled in and made a fortune from the private equity investing game. He hangs with billionaires. The attitudes rub off.

McAuliffe, well, he's a career fundraiser. Moving on.


Speaking in Mongolia as part of her own "Pacific Pivot" tour, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton took aim at China's model of economic growth without democracy, arguing that it undermines long-term prospects. She urged other Asian countries to expand markets and political freedom at the same time.

Meanwhile, Hillary, who has said repeatedly she will step down as secretary of state after Obama's first term, a long tenure at Foggy Bottom, is on her own Pacific pivot tour, following Defense Secretary Leon Panetta's Pacific pivot tour of late May and early June.

This is part of the Pacific pivot I've been following closely with several pieces here on the Huffington Post, as the U.S. slowly shifts from over-engagement with the Islamic world of the Middle East and Central Asia to enhanced engagement with the vast Asia Pacific region, marking the rise of China. (The move was officially called the "Pacific pivot" until Europeanists objected, so it's now dubbed the "rebalancing.")

It's a big geopolitical pivot which, one way or another, is inevitable. Because we can't keep on in the Islamic world as we have with the misadventures of the Iraq and Afghan Wars and the geopolitical and economic weight of the world is shifting toward Asia. Though so long as we're addicted to oil we will be engaged with the Islamic world, where we've been for the past decade is out of all proportion. Had we not invaded Iraq, I think we would already have executed the pivot to the Pacific.

Of course, pivoting away from our fateful engagements in the Islamic world is at least as tricky as pivoting to the Asia Pacific. The Clintons' potential political interests come into play in both halves of that.

If Hillary Clinton is to have the option of running for president in 2016, she needs a strong legacy as secretary of state, by far the most important post she's ever held. She can't run on her time as first lady, in which she presided over the disaster of national health care, which resulted briefly in a Republican House (just as the victory of national health care did), or on her time as a Senator from New York, most of which was devoted to running for president.

What she and Obama have done with American geopolitics is very much in flux. And while a President Romney would also end up pivoting to the Asia Pacific region -- he says, for example, he doesn't want to withdraw from Afghanistan, but with the endless embarrassments there, and allies heading to the exits, we may not have much choice about that -- he wouldn't follow the Obama/Clinton script.

Hillary Clinton has an investment in her policies with Obama being seen as successful.

And most of that is in flux.

The pivot to the Pacific, for example, is just underway now. And the pivot away from over-engagement with the Islamic world of the Middle East and Central Asia is very tricky.

In the Asia Pacific region, we have an imperial overhang to live down, dating much farther back than the Vietnam fiasco, though few Americans know the history. Much of it, perhaps fittingly, is wrapped up with the last two presidents to come from New York, the cousins Roosevelt.

Theodore Roosevelt and Franklin Roosevelt both cut their political teeth in the same post, that of assistant secretary of the Navy. (This back in the day when the Department of the Navy was not a subsidiary of the sprawling Department of Defense but a senior Cabinet agency in its own right next to the Department of War, which ran the Army.)

The U.S. Navy patrolled deep inside China on orders from the last two presidents from New York, Theodore Roosevelt and Franklin Roosevelt.


Both TR and FDR were "big navy" advocates, pushing for much larger naval forces, the better to project American power in the Asia Pacific region. Taking advantage of a rather passive and much older secretary of the Navy, TR played a big role in setting American forces in position to prevail in the Spanish-American War, which gave American major new imperial possessions, especially in the Pacific. Most notable of these was the Philippines.

As president, TR moved to put down the Filipino uprising against American forces and established the Asiatic Fleet, which had its headquarters in Shanghai, China. From there, with America part of a European free-for-all in moving to exploit a weak Chinese imperial dynasty, U.S. Navy gunboats plied the rivers of China more than a thousand miles into the interior of the mainland and U.S. Marines kept order in "international settlements."

Americans have long since forgotten this, but China has not.

FDR's role in the Asia Pacific was no less fateful. In his work as assistant secretary of the Navy from 1913 to 1920, the same number two spot in the department that TR had, he worked to expand the Navy in the Pacific, continued the imperial system in China, oversaw plans for a future war with Japan, and founded the naval reserve. As president, he did approve the transition of the Philippines from colony status to eventual independence, but, before sacrificing the Asiatic Fleet as a speed bump to slow surging Japanese forces after Pearl Harbor, maintained American forces inside China. FDR's economic moves to counter rising Japanese imperialism across the Asia Pacific led to the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor, the event which ultimately spurred the U.S. to become a superpower.

Now the U.S. seems to be on the verge of establishing a de facto new Asiatic Fleet, this time not to exploit China but to work with its neighbors in countering it, with a likely squadron of fast new vessels called littoral combat ships to be based in Singapore. And so another would-be president from New York, this time working with a veteran California politician, Leon Panetta, is off promoting the new policy.

Speaking in Hanoi, the secretary of state alternated between lauding improvements and prospects in U.S.-Vietnam trade and investment and chastising the Communist regime to democratize and respect human rights. But the tone was mostly positive.

She promoted the Trans-Pacific Partnership, something Obama talked up when he toured the region last in late 2011, a new pact in development to lower trade barriers between Brunei, Vietnam, Malaysia, Singapore, New Zealand, Australia, Peru, Chile, and the U.S. U.S. and Philippine trade relations have already proceeded on another track.

There is no shortage of controversy about secretiveness surrounding the new trade pact, and provisions that would undermine U.S. law.

Clinton was proceeded to Vietnam by Panetta, who visited last month. The veteran California political figure was the first U.S. defense secretary to visit Vietnam since the U.S. defeat in 1975. Panetta toured the former U.S. Navy base at Cam Ranh Bay, something which got remarkably little coverage in the U.S. After capturing it from us in the Vietnam War, Hanoi is now allowing U.S. ships to dock there. Currently, those Navy vessels are non-combatant ships. The U.S. is negotiating for the right to berth combat ships at Cam Ranh Bay. The Vietnamese appear at least somewhat amenable. Look for an arms and technology deal.

In a downbeat appearance in Laos, Clinton acknowledged that scores of people are still killed, and many more maimed, every year by unexploded American cluster bombs left over from the Vietnam War, which had a tendency to expand across Indochina.

In Mongolia at the beginning of the week, Clinton unveiled some tough talk on China, criticizing its model of economic growth without democracy.

Late in the week, in Cambodia, while attending the ASEAN (Association of Southeast Asian Nations) foreign ministers meeting, she warned of "conflict" if China doesn't come to the table for multilateral talks on a code of conduct in the South China Sea, virtually all of which is claimed by the PRC to the consternation of its neighbors. Which is giving the U.S. a big opening with the other countries on the South China Sea. She repeated her message in a meeting with Chinese Foreign Minister Yang Jiechi. But China insists on bilateral negotiations, in which it can bring its greater weight to bear on any nation in the region.

Secretary of State Hillary Clinton told China that it needs to be less aggressive with its neighbors in the South China Sea.


Not much of this will be finished by the time Obama's first term, and Hillary's time as secretary of state, ends. And still more is unsettled back in the regions from which we are pivoting.

One good thing for Clinton is that secular liberal forces seem to have prevailed in last weekend's national elections in Libya. This sets the country freed last year from dictator Moammar Gaddafi by NATO air strikes and an internal uprising apart from earlier Arab Spring nations such as Egypt and Tunisia where Islamist parties turned out to be the beneficiaries.

Clinton championed the U.S. and NATO intervention in Libya. Working with her campaign critic, longtime Obama advisor Samantha Power, she pushed successfully for the Obama administration to provide the crucial value-added factors needed to make the NATO mission a success.

But most other matters are unsettled.

Pakistan finally agreed to allow U.S. and NATO supplies for the Afghan War to again flow through its country and across its border. Why, after a seven month blockage?

Because Clinton finally called Pakistani Foreign Minister Hina Rabbani Khar and apologized for the killings by U.S. forces of 24 Pakistani soldiers at a border outpost last November in an odd incident. A formal apology had long been a precondition on the Pakistani side for resumption of the shipments.

On an unannounced stop last week in Kabul, Clinton declared Afghanistan a "major non-NATO ally" giving it top priority for assistance and certifying it as the success that it clearly is not. She was a big advocate of Obama's big escalation there and is now sweating out all the attendant problems.

Syria remains an open wound of a crisis, despite meeting at the end of last week in St. Petersburg with Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov. Both Clinton and Lavrov, whose government is a close ally of the Assad regime, said after their discussions that the U.S. and Russian positions are moving closer together. But there was no agreement on any particulars of a transitional government.

If the situation continues as it has, there is plenty of opportunity for war to break out involving Turkey, as we saw with the F-4 shoot-down incident, and Iran, Syria's other remaining close ally.

Things are complex enough in the region with Iran itself.

Negotiations over the Iranian nuclear program, which have gone nowhere in three major sessions in various international capitals in the past few months, picked up at a lower level on Tuesday in Istanbul. But there is little reason to believe that those negotiations will go any better, even though sanctions are taking very serious bites out of Iran already and are apt to do more.

And there is little reason to believe that Israel does not still view military strikes against Iran to be very much a live option, especially with Iran hanging tough and diplomacy stalling.

The European Union embargo on Iranian oil began on July 1st. So did an end to the insurance provided by European firms for Iranian oil shipments. Europeans firms are the bulk of that market.

Iran acknowledges drops of 20 percent to 30 percent in its exports. And another sign that the sanctions are hurting came with Tehran urging an emergency meeting of OPEC to try to have Gulf Arab countries cut production and jack prices back up to $100-plus per barrel. Which did not happen.

But Iran has come this far toward its nuclear goals. Why would its leaders, who have brought down so much economic travail upon the country in furtherance of those goals, stop now?

Accordingly, there has been a quiet U.S. military build-up in the Gulf, which Iran and tradition call the Persian Gulf and the Gulf Arab nations which share it call the Arabian Gulf. In the latest move, the U.S. Navy has deployed many Sea Fox underwater drones to the Gulf to find and destroy mines in case Iran makes good on its recently repeated threat to close the Strait of Hormuz, the world's most critical choke point in terms of oil supply.

Then there is Egypt, where Clinton was slow to describe longtime dictator Hosni Mubarak as a dictator when the Arab Awakening began. She's hailed early actions by newly-elected Egyptian President Mohamed Morsi, the USC-educated former Cal State University engineering professor. She particularly likes the Muslim Brotherhood leader's pledge to honor Egypt's treaties, which includes a peace treaty with Israel.

But the interim ruling military council there, working with a supreme court still dominated by Mubarak appointees, has dissolved the first democratically-elected national parliament and arrogated many presidential powers, as well as the writing of the constitution, to itself.

Yet another major area in which Clinton's legacy as secretary of state is still to be written.

You can check things during the day on my site, New West Notes ... www.newwestnotes.com.

William Bradley Huffington Post Archive

 
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HUFFPOST BLOGGER
William Bradley
I have no microbe bio.
10:04 PM on 07/17/2012
The latest piece -- "Crises Chaotic and Bubbling: The Gulf and the South China Sea" -- is online now ...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/william-bradley/crises-chaotic-and-bubbli_b_1681426.html
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
whyus
San Francisco native
01:03 AM on 07/16/2012
Isn't Clinton's son -in - law in hedge funds?
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HUFFPOST BLOGGER
William Bradley
I have no microbe bio.
02:56 PM on 07/17/2012
Huh?
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
TheOin2012
My micro-brew is empty.
05:31 PM on 07/17/2012
In the South China Sea I guess...
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HUFFPOST BLOGGER
William Bradley
I have no microbe bio.
06:25 PM on 07/17/2012
Perhaps on one of the uninhabited little islands ...
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
PSDave
FRACKING gives me gas....
08:04 PM on 07/15/2012
So what's up with McAuliffe and new best friend Haley Barbour......green car comin'...and going'.....low reg. low tax?.......there's trouble in Mississippi.......I admit it,...... it worries me to think these two can get together on anything......if its not big money why's Barbour interested?unless its upside down world........maybe I'm being naiive....what's really up here?
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HUFFPOST BLOGGER
William Bradley
I have no microbe bio.
02:57 PM on 07/17/2012
Getting a bit distracted from the central thread, are we?

Someone else cares more about Terry McAuliffe than I do.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
PSDave
FRACKING gives me gas....
06:20 PM on 07/17/2012
Yeh....ADHD......sorry....but wasn't McAuliffe a notable minion?......but I suppose he doesn't work for her now, but might he in 2016?.....unless he keeps palling around with Haley Barbour.....lol.......I think she has a better than even shot to win......I don't buy into the ageism of some other posters here.....think she'd be great and the next 4 years if Obama is re-elected will only help her, but only if she doesn't step down as Sec. Of State.
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tracerhaha1
It's time to end the war on (some) drugs.
12:18 PM on 07/15/2012
Just what this country needs two families in control of the presidency for 20+years.
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HUFFPOST BLOGGER
William Bradley
I have no microbe bio.
02:58 PM on 07/17/2012
As distinguished from one, I suppose.

In any event, not what the piece is about.
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09:42 AM on 07/15/2012
Interesting commentary with some real insight.

With regard to the Clintons, Romney and Bain, it is important to note that Bill Clinton lives in Romney's world now, and depends largely on the 1 percenters for his huge income from "speaking and consulting fees", now totaling over $75 million since he left office, and for donations to the Clinton Foundation, which also help pay for Bill's global lifestyle. http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/OTUS/bill-clintons-elite-friends-muddle-obama-message-romney/story?id=16519382

Bill Clinton and the Clinton Foundation and Global Initiative also have a tight business relationship with Bain. Bain contributes substantial pro bono staffing to the Clinton Foundationa through a revolving door (year-long externs). Bain uses the relationship to polish its corporate image for marketing and recruitment, and promotes giving to the Clinton Foundation to its wealthy clients around the world.

"Bain's results-oriented culture extends beyond our relationships with Global 1000 CEOs and other industry leaders. ... [Our employees] participate in long-term service engagements with City Year, the Clinton Foundation, Bridgespan, and others." http://www.joinbain.com/apply-to-bain/bain-on-your-campus/school_welcome.asp?school_id=9

With regard to Hillary Clinton's plans movnig forward, there is NYC gossip that she will "nest" at the Clinton Foundation and explore 2016, and is pressuring Bill to clean up some of the shadier aspects of its operation. . http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/there_ll_be_hill_to_pay_inwcUrNI7rr2i0BSi9ulvM
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HUFFPOST BLOGGER
William Bradley
I have no microbe bio.
02:58 PM on 07/17/2012
Thanks, I appreciate it.

Very interesting information on the Clinton Foundation and Bain.
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TheOin2012
My micro-brew is empty.
05:32 PM on 07/17/2012
I think Barack had BC clean up the real shady stuff.
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William Bradley
I have no microbe bio.
06:25 PM on 07/17/2012
He's had to get okays on a lot of things.
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06:54 AM on 07/18/2012
I believe you are correct that that was a prior condition to his appointment of Hillary Clinton, and her monitoring of his activities has been part of her responsibility.
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PSDave
FRACKING gives me gas....
05:09 PM on 07/14/2012
Hillary has made great strides in her position, and since she has said she will step down at the end of this term, perhaps she feels her legacy will stand as it is.......but I believe I'm with you on this point......the pivot to the Pacific, as recent as it is, needs her attention for far longer than til the end of Obama's first term. My feeling is she should stay on as Secretary of State if Obama is lucky enough to get his second term. Our Pacific relations would be degenerated by a tea party Sec. Of St.......at least by most liberal standards.
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William Bradley
I have no microbe bio.
05:28 PM on 07/14/2012
Right, whether she runs for president in 2016 or not, her legacy will only be served if Obama is re-elected.

Even though the Pivot is inevitable, Romney would do it differently and certainly wouldn't help her look good because that would make Obama look good.
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TheOin2012
My micro-brew is empty.
07:18 PM on 07/14/2012
I really bet she is going to go for it.

It must really frost her that she lost out to Barack who nobody ever heard of before his big 2004 Convention speech.
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07:39 AM on 07/16/2012
I believe she lost in her bid for president precisely because Americans knew her well, most did not believe she was honest or trustworthy and did not want her as president.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/105097/perceived-honesty-gap-clinton-versus-obama-mccain.aspx

If she weighs in again in partisan politics, I believe her high approvals will go down, as has been true of her rollercoaster ride in the Gallup poll for decades. High when she is in First Lady meet and greet mode, and low when she is deeply engaged in politics.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/146891/hillary-clinton-favorable-near-time-high.aspx
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
PSDave
FRACKING gives me gas....
03:13 PM on 07/14/2012
When Bill Clinton praises Romney's business acumen, he hasn't gone off the deep end, as many would think, but rather throwing the other side a bone for credibility purposes. After all he doesn't have to worry about the base as Obama must.....it's a clever gambit.....and I concur with this move......helping shield Obama but at the same time using this point to promote the reasonable campaign .......after all, I, for one, believe Bill is getting smarter with age......don't you?
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HUFFPOST BLOGGER
William Bradley
I have no microbe bio.
03:21 PM on 07/14/2012
He didn't have to praise Bain in the process, did he?

I think he's gotten smarter in some ways, and vastly more acclimated to the super-rich.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
PSDave
FRACKING gives me gas....
04:43 PM on 07/14/2012
No, you're right he didn't, but aren't we a touch cynical as to his smartness............you really think he praised Bain because of his super-rich acclimation?.......bit of a s-t-r-e-t-c-h........I actually don't remember him praising Bain......but my wife accuses me of selective hearing......so......
10:21 AM on 07/14/2012
Scouring the world for a new boogyeman. More money for the armament industry.
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William Bradley
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01:21 PM on 07/14/2012
Thanks for reading so carefully.
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TheOin2012
My micro-brew is empty.
07:19 PM on 07/14/2012
Heh.
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TheOin2012
My micro-brew is empty.
03:00 PM on 07/14/2012
Is there any country not named America that you think is a big problem??
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William Bradley
I have no microbe bio.
03:00 PM on 07/17/2012
Apparently not.
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gutenmorgen
a.k.a. crowsnest
09:00 AM on 07/14/2012
For approximately three decades our country was the sole economic giant of the globe hence could often dictate how other countries should behave. Prime example: the Suez Canal war which President Eisenhower nipped in the bud. The rot began with the result of the Vietnam war and has been all but completed with the economic collapse of 2008.
Today our nation is no longer feared for its economic clout but only for its military prowess. That is the shaky and devastatingly expensive basis upon which the Obama administration continues to conduct our foreign policy. Yet several defeats are already a fact such as Iraq. Others are looming: Afghanistan, Yemen, Somalia, Pakistan, and Syria. The mother-of-all failures will be a military attack on Iran.
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William Bradley
I have no microbe bio.
01:22 PM on 07/14/2012
Yes, the over-engagement with the Islamic world has been a disaster, as I may have mentioned.

Any thoughts on the article itself?
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TheOin2012
My micro-brew is empty.
07:25 PM on 07/14/2012
Transmitting...
ThinkCreeps
Seriously, it's time.
05:32 AM on 07/16/2012
From 1940 to 1990 there were powerful military challengers to the US, but few economic challengers, with the exception of Germany and Japan, that were set straight by the farsighted work of Truman and Marshall. Vietnam was a centerpiece of the cold war where this stable situation persisted.

Since 1990, there has been no military challenger, but substantial reduction in the fraction of the global economy that involved the US. However, the US is still the largest and most stable economy in the world. The dive into the middle east was just a stupid sideshow, and not related to the issues responsible for Vietnam in any way. However, if an oil-dependent nation, whose economy is engaged with other oil-poor nations, sits on its hands and does nothing about that situation, then it ends up being drawn into foolish conflicts.
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HUFFPOST BLOGGER
William Bradley
I have no microbe bio.
03:00 PM on 07/17/2012
The Bush/Cheney agenda was a massive sideshow, wildly destructive.
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blutopie
no longer 'chosen'
05:17 AM on 07/14/2012
Hillary will be 69 or 70 by 2016 and too old to run. She's looked exhausted for the last several yrs just being Sec of State and she has been a disaster in foreign policy - dragging (?) to the Neocon right

All she needs is her war with Iran she wants so desperately to cap off her stint as a Netanyahu's Sec of State
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HUFFPOST BLOGGER
William Bradley
I have no microbe bio.
01:23 PM on 07/14/2012
Classic age-ism tinted with sexism for her looks, wildly out of place in the world of today in which many will be vital into their 90s.

And I am no Clinton fan.
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TheOin2012
My micro-brew is empty.
07:26 PM on 07/14/2012
Indeed.
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LizM
My micro-bio is too long for this space.
11:19 PM on 07/13/2012
The Clinton clan, and their faithful minions, may have more to worry about than an Obama re-elect.

There are some circumstances that might increase, exponentially, the likelihood of Vice President Biden deciding to run in 2016.

If, for example, by the end of Obama’s second term (note my optimism), the Pacific pivot (the Europeans can lump it and, besides, they’ll be preoccupied for the next four years, minimum) is not taking shape as planned, with a great deal of heavy lifting yet to be done, and if the engagements in Afghanistan and the wider Islamic world remain a great work in progress, then I can see Biden very seriously making his intentions regarding 2016 known, early and well. As a sitting vice president, this strategy would presumably work far better than it did for Senator Biden in 2005. One - okay, I - can hope, at least.

After all, Biden lives and breaths geopolitics and foreign policy whereas for Clinton, in my estimation, these realms provide little more than another stepping stone on her journey to the pinnacle of US politics.

As much as I believe Hillary Clinton and her supporters yearn for the White House, I can’t see her mounting any sort of challenge to Biden. But, I could very well be dead wrong about that, obviously.

By the way, I have to ask ... just how much would a used Vespa set back the average Joe?
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William Bradley
I have no microbe bio.
03:22 PM on 07/14/2012
Interesting thoughts on Biden and Clinton. I agree that geopolitics was never her expertise before becoming secretary of state, an adroit political move on Obama's part.

Biden's watch cost about $2000.
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LizM
My micro-bio is too long for this space.
12:26 AM on 07/15/2012
Biden is all about keeping it real.
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TheOin2012
My micro-brew is empty.
07:29 PM on 07/14/2012
I thought you said no way that Biden runs for President again...

:)
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LizM
My micro-bio is too long for this space.
12:03 AM on 07/15/2012
Well, I can’t honestly say that I recall being quite that adamant about it. You know, our pal Bill’s sources on the matter have sparked some positive feelings about the prospects that Biden might just throw his hat into the ring one more time, given the appropriate circumstances.

Although, his legal expert sources, who had seemingly convinced him that the healthcare mandate would be struck down as unconstitutional, have proven to be less than reliable. I have to admit, I’ve been patiently waiting to get that dig in for a while now. :) Of course, they were right about how a majority of the Court would view the whole commerce clause thing but, still ...

Getting back to Biden ... do you think that Hillary would dare challenge him should he decide to put himself through another run for the presidency?
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LizM
My micro-bio is too long for this space.
09:05 PM on 07/16/2012
I'll take that as a no ... :)
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TheOin2012
My micro-brew is empty.
08:32 PM on 07/13/2012
Hill is on a lot better ground taking up the cause of China's unhappy neighbors around the South China Sea.

What do we have over there now? I mean, we have 3 carriers in the Gulf, right??

>>> Secretary of State Hillary Clinton told China that it needs to be less aggressive with its neighbors in the South China Sea.
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gutenmorgen
a.k.a. crowsnest
08:39 AM on 07/14/2012
I hope that you have noticed that the name of that sea is not "South USA Sea" but "South China Sea".
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William Bradley
I have no microbe bio.
01:24 PM on 07/14/2012
Are you under the impression, which would be difficult for you to have, having read the article, that China simply owns the entire sea?
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TheOin2012
My micro-brew is empty.
07:30 PM on 07/14/2012
Look at a map and see how many countries are on the South China Sea.

It's crazy that China claims it all for itself. It ain't a lake, ya know.
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William Bradley
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01:23 PM on 07/14/2012
Correct, most of the other countries want help against a very aggressive China.
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TheOin2012
My micro-brew is empty.
07:30 PM on 07/14/2012
Why wouldn't they?
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TheOin2012
My micro-brew is empty.
08:28 PM on 07/13/2012
Hillary is pretty outspoken there, telling the Chinese how to run their country.

What's she up to? Campaign politics??

>>> Speaking in Mongolia as part of her own "Pacific Pivot" tour, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton took aim at China's model of economic growth without democracy, arguing that it undermines long-term prospects. She urged other Asian countries to expand markets and political freedom at the same time.
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William Bradley
I have no microbe bio.
01:25 PM on 07/14/2012
Actually, the Clintons have been through this with China before.

I can't tell the entire history of this in one article, or even a series of them, no matter how long they are.

But I'll get into that in the next one.
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TheOin2012
My micro-brew is empty.
07:31 PM on 07/14/2012
Maybe 9/11 and the Iraq weirdness distracted us from the main stuff all along.
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08:46 PM on 07/16/2012
She IS TELLING ALL COUNTRIES ON THIS PLANET, HOW TO RUN THEIR POLITICAL
"BUSINESS".
HillaryBarry are not interested in America, just LEGACY.
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TheOin2012
My micro-brew is empty.
05:38 PM on 07/17/2012
That isn't happening.
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TheOin2012
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08:27 PM on 07/13/2012
That is great vid footage from the olden days.

Man, the Chinese have long memories and they must hate the thought of us cruising their rivers on our gunboats...

That puts a whole new complexion on things.

>>> The U.S. Navy patrolled deep inside China on orders from the last two presidents from New York, Theodore Roosevelt and Franklin Roosevelt.
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ladyrosedeky
09:05 PM on 07/13/2012
They sure did and China was actually our ally during our attack on Japan during WWII after they bombed us at Pearl Harbor.

Oh how things do change in the world.
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William Bradley
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01:27 PM on 07/14/2012
China was looking for major help after Imperial Japan invaded in the '30s, in much greater force than the various European powers, which were content with concessions from the weak dynasty, had.

And especially after the rape of Nanking in 1937, which makes American war crimes in Vietnam and elsewhere look minor league.
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TheOin2012
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03:03 PM on 07/14/2012
Eh, China was pushing America to get into the war after Japan invaded them. That was waaaay before Pearl harbor.

I think we sent a bunch of "volunteer" pilots called the Flying Tigers over there to help the Chinese and sent them a lot of aid.
10:03 AM on 07/14/2012
Wasn't there a Steve McQueen movie about that?
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William Bradley
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01:27 PM on 07/14/2012
The Sand Pebbles, an excellent film, but it's set in the 1920s, which was before the massive Japanese invasion.
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TheOin2012
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03:03 PM on 07/14/2012
About what? Pearl harbor, helping the Chinese fight the Japanese?
06:53 PM on 07/13/2012
A possible Hillary run in 2016? Why would you entertain such a nightmarish scenario? I think you are in a very masochistic mood.
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William Bradley
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01:28 PM on 07/14/2012
I entertain realistic scenarios.

It's very realistic.
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TheOin2012
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07:32 PM on 07/14/2012
Yah, and see I thought we'd beaten the Clintons in 2008...