A number like [230] seems outlandish, absurd. How can the US Environmental Protection Agency possibly measure fuel consumption that low? The answer, it turns out, is all in the assumptions.
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My problem is the cost. I can't afford 50k for a car, and I doubt if I could I trust GM enough to spend that much. I currently drive a Hyundai Sonata (2009) and get about 23MPG, the sticker said something like 28 city, but I know not to expect that number with any car. This car would get 230 on the best day. Lets assume for a moment the it gets 230. Over 5 years that I finance I would drive about 60,000 miles. I would use about 2600 gallons of gas in my Hyundai, and 260 with the Volt. I would save money on gas, but lets assume for a moment that gas goes up to $5 a gallon (double what I am paying now) I would spend $13,000 with my Hyundai, and $1,300 with the Volt, as savings of $11,700, no where near the $30,000 difference (and that doesn't include the fact that I am paying interest in that extra money). I would love to go to the gas station a lot less, but until we have cars in the $20,000 range, not enough people are going to buy one.
The 800lb. gorilla in the room that no one wants to talk about is the price of the upcoming American fuel efficient and/or electric cars. Anything with a price tag of $50k and higher is going to be available only to the top one or two percent of the populace. Meanwhile, the other 98% still have to get around. The best that can be said for the Volt is that it may eventually have a cheaper cousin.
Meanwhile, the Asian automobile manufacturers are approaching the problem of making hybrids, PHEVs, and EVs from a marketing perspective, which means that most Americans will be able to afford them.
While the small company, Tesla, is aware that they are marketing their expensive products to the wealthy, and is making their financial plans accordingly, giant GM is not. The Volt may have originally been planned as a clever advertising ploy, but now GM is putting their hopes for financial success in something that by GM's own admission may very well be out of reach of the middle class.
What a stupid title to this article. Even 50mpg(which is the lowest the Volt could get) is super-high! What the heck is your problem? Even if the Volt averaged 90 or 150 or 210, guess that is sub-par mileage, eh? The 40cents a day charging too much for your wallet?
The worst mpg is 50mpg, which is already better than the Prius. What is so bad about that? And if you are driving more than 40 miles a day(which I usually don't do) and you average out to a paltry 100mpg? WTF? Isn't that twice what the Prius gets and people are complaining?
And even with the dirtiest coal power plants, the Volt is cleaner than the Prius if you do the numbers properly. I just don't get the negativity here.
"The worst mpg is 50mpg, which is already better than the Prius."
A series hybrid like the Volt should be getting way beyond 60mpg. That is does not shows that the engineering is far from ideal.
"WTF? Isn't that twice what the Prius gets and people are complaining?"
A Prius with 50mpg has an average consumption of about 300 gallons per year for a typical 15,000 mile driving patter. So even the best car (the one that runs on water) can not save more than 300 gallons annually. Obviously, every real vehicle will save less. That's the law of diminishing returns at work. Since the Volt seems to be a much more expensive car, the overall savings in gas are marginal in comparison with the additional cost.
That does not mean the Volt will be a bad car. It just won't be a great money saver. It will, for sure, not make much of a difference environmentally. For one thing it won't sell much, for another, if you take the difference between the cost of the Volt and the cost of a small car with 40+mpg and invest that in energy efficiency measures in your home and solar panels, you will do way better on your carbon budget.
Best wishes to GM and the Volt, we could really use some good news from Detroit.
On a related issue, Toyota issued a press release today (tomorrow in Japan) that they are planning on releasing a sub-compact hybrid in 2011, that will cost 25% less than the Prius (which will bring it in at under $20 thousand), and that will get 40 kilometers per liter (about 89 miles to the gallon). So, while the Volt will cost between 40 and 50 grand, Toyota is working to incorporate the hybrid technology into something that I can afford. Bravo.
Will they make it available in the US or is this going to be a European model?
It didn't say.
The article was a reprint in a "JapanToday" e-mail, credited to Kyoda News. It also said that Honda is going to release a hybrid version of the Fit compact car in 2010. In both cases, nothing was mentioned about where they will be marketed. However, given that their economy is export based, I think both cars will eventually reach our shores; sooner rather than later, I hope.
Also, the "Peoples Daily Online" from South Korea reported Aug. 13 that Hyundai and Kia plan on having PHEVs on sale in America by 2012.
The Tesla is the hottest car on the road. They will be putting out a few more less expensive cars down the road that more of us can actually afford. If for some reason I am in a position to where I can afford to buy one of the boss models, I will. I believe the Tesla sport car is the hottest car on the road, anywhere in the world. It's made here in the U.S.A. too !
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Reply Favorite Flag as abusive Posted 08:48 PM on 08/12/2009
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50 to 55K per car. Almost affordable.
Reply Favorite Flag as abusive Posted 10:18 PM on 08/12/2009
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isn't it more like 100k ?
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Tesla S is around 50K. Google Tesla Model S.
No, There's no such thing as a car that can run 230 miles and a gallon of gasoline. The oil cartel would definitely eliminate these engineers. :-)
http://www.greencoolhip.com/electric-hybrid/202/230-miles-per-gallon-vehicle/
your greencoolhip article mis-represents the average commuter miles driven per day, which is less than 30. Back to your drawing board...
http://www.ridetowork.org/transportation-fact-sheet
A bright spot in car technology, and you seem hell-bent to tarnish a great thing for this country.
GM is adopting the Obama style.
LIE !!!!!!!!!
You mean Bush-style.
Anyone who believes the hype is a fool.
To bad for the Prius problems and glitches. If Toyota paid 15% on its imported parts it couldnt compete.
If china wants to sell and electric car here 15% tariff on it.
Lets go back to tariffs on imports and control the market in favor of US manufactures.
and hurt US exports...brilliant
Name three of your friends who had problems with their Prius!
Quick!
:-)
I've never had any problems with mine!
Don't believe the hype.
If a company like Toyota is having problems putting out a mechanically reliable hybrid such as the Prius (I mean $8,000 to replace a battery? Headlights that go out on a whim? Sudden acceleration after pressing on the brake?) then one can only imagine what the quality of a GM hybrid is going to be (my feeling is that "execrable" will be the most apt description).
Here's to hoping someone can truly get it right. I am personally interested in the Tesla, but even they have had transmission issues.
I'm not positive, but I think that Buick was ranked #1 for reliability last year, wasnt it?
I couldn't tell. I don't have one. I don't drive ugly cars that consume fuel like as if the oceans were filled with crude oil.
:-)
J D Power did rate Buick and Toyota the same in initial quality. They did not rate on long term quality.
http://www.jdpower.com/autos/ratings/dependability-ratings-by-brand
But remember J D Power also rated the Pontiac Aztec "Most Appealing Entry Sport Utility Vehicle" in 2001 so their judgement is not too good.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pontiac_Aztek
wow one year. big deal. the only reason toyotas build quality went down is because they're making more of their cars here in america.
chevy volt may only have a limited market of the wealthy, some celebs, techno geeks & hard core environmentalists. gmc needs the middle class to suceed. at $40k-45k a pop, that will not happen.
nissan & toyota will suceed. at $25k, they will sell millions of green vehcles. they will do it without federal subsidies. they will turn a profit. that is why the volt is already dead in the water.
Like the subsidies that allowed them to set up shop here...
Those subsidies profit their US employees.
As far as I know, Toyota still makes their Prius in Japan. They don't need subsidies to make a highly successful brand at home.
But just think how many people they would employ if we had offered them a good deal to open a Prius plant in the US ten years ago...
:-)
The bad news for GM is that when the Volt comes out, the Chinese are already selling pure EV's. The Volt will be obsolete when it rolls out the factory. Kudos for GM management.
what happens when your pure ev runs out of 'gas' past 100 or 200 miles, and you have another couple of hundred miles to go on your destination?
If my work is 30 miles from home, I'll be using gas for the last 20 miles. If I get 30 miles per gallon, I'll use 0.667 gallons for 60 miles which makes my mi/gal= 90. So your mileage depends on how you use the car.
Very sad (or serves them right) when you consider that GM used to lease the EV1 and had the technological advantage, but decided to work in collusion with the oil companies and destroy these cars.
Exactly correct! The EV1's were slick cars!
If you haven't already, watch : "Who Killed the Electric Car"
Its a great documentary!
Hey, if the car does half that it will be an awesome achievement. Why all the negativity?
"Why all the negativity?"
Because an advertising lie about what could be an otherwise good (albeit too expensive) product still stays a lie?
See, GM is not doing itself a favor by making these transparent and nonsensical claims. People expect better from them. And they just don't deliver. It's the same arrogant company it was before we gave them tens of billions to survive. You think they earned it? I don't.
The bail out was not so much about GM, it was mostly about thousands of families that depended on those jobs. The pain, the stress, and all the terrible things that can happen to families when they cannot afford to keep a roof over their head was avoided for many of them. From the heart ache of pulling kids out of their school, the stress of bills and the loss of self worth for mothers and fathers, the pain of families breaking up under the pressure, why does that not enter your mind? All you people dumping on GM over the bail out is one thing, but saying it was a bad thing and worthless, well that is a narrow point of view.
Hey Mr. double standard there...
Does your car get the mileage claimed on its sticker? Answer me!! Why single the Volt out when they are playing buy the rules set by the representatives YOU voted for?
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| GreenCar Reports
Posted: 08-12-09 08:38 AM