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Zachary Karabell

Zachary Karabell

Posted: November 13, 2009 11:41 AM

The U.S. and China: The Defining Issue of Our Day

What's Your Reaction?

In his current Asian trip, President Obama visits Japan, then addresses a forum of leaders in Singapore, and eventually ends up in Seoul to discuss nukes and North Korea. But make no mistake, the axis of this week is the time Obama will spend in China, which has catapulted to the forefront of international affairs and is on its way to joining the United States as the alpha and omega of the global economic system.

That China has emerged is secret to no one, but the consequences haven't been fully integrated -- either by the United States or by China. The level of intertwinement between the two economies has reached the point where they have effectively merged, forming what I've called an economic "superfusion." But that fusion hasn't yet altered political and cultural mindsets.

The ministers of the world still beseech the United States to "do something" about a weakening dollar, and U.S representatives on the eve of this trip announced that after the financial morass of the past 15 months, the United States "is back." Yes, the United States remains the world's largest economy -- though technically the combined income of the European Union is greater. But size isn't everything -- just look at Japan, which is still the world's second largest economy but whose influence and impact are substantially less. China may be poor on a per capita basis (perhaps $5000 per person relative to nearly $50,000 in the United States), but it is changing more rapidly and consuming more hungrily that any other society in the world. It is the change factor in the global system.

Chinese leaders, however, have a tendency to downplay their outsized presence and retreat to a combination of false modesty ("Who us? We're just a poor, developing nation") and baton-passing ("The Americans are the ones who messed up the system and they are the ones who have to fix it, and oh by the way, make sure that our $800 billion in Treasury bonds and $500 billion in other investments don't lose value!"). Their doctrine of non-interference in the internal affairs of other countries is a welcome relief for some who have grown tired of the American tendency to do the opposite, but it also is an increasingly ineffective dodge of the responsibilities that come with hundreds of billions of dollars of investment in Africa, Latin American and Central Asia, as well as hundreds of billions of dollars in trade with the United States, Japan, Korea, the EU and the rest of the world.

Americans, however, still don't quite get it. China represents the first time in any American's lifetime that the United States is faced with a country that it cannot coerce. Even the Soviet Union was vulnerable in its way to American military might. China doesn't even pretend to compete with the United States militarily (though it is aggressively spending on "asymmetric" warfare such as disruptive communications technologies and other methods that would impede the ability of the U.S. military to operate smoothly in the Pacific Rim). And there is no real stick for Americans to wield when it doesn't like how China behaves, whether that is in the realm of human rights or intellectual property. For America, China is a 'welcome to the real world' phenomenon, a case where the United States has to do what most other societies have learned to do for centuries: deal with things they don't like in other countries without being able to force them to behave differently.

The issue for America going forward has little to do with China and everything to do with America. Can Americans rediscover the energy and innovation that brought such power and prosperity in the first place? Can the United States respond constructively to a changed global status that sees the rise of wealth and prosperity everywhere from Brazil to India to China? And can the U.S. government remove its collective head from the sand and act with the urgency that everything from climate change to economic competitiveness demand?

The problem of China for America is that it is a large but amorphous issue, unlike Afghanistan (do we send troops NOW?) or health care, with its endless and acrimonious battles in the beltway. There is no vote, or quick resolution or unitary policy that will "solve" China. That allows it to linger as a concern, but not to shape action.

So while Obama's visit is important in form and a start, it cannot be a one-off, full of pomp and devoid of substance. Somehow, the United States must shake of the collective grogginess of Cold War, terrorism, financial crisis and inequalities and grapple with a world that is evolving and changing around us whether we like it or not. There is still time, but that clock is ticking and midnight is approaching.

 
 
 

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07:36 AM on 11/17/2009
My father used to say..'if you owe the bank a little money, the bank owns you, if you owe the bank a lot of money, you own the bank'
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Bgorden
didn't cause the economic crisis
01:19 AM on 11/16/2009
I don't know that the U.S. and Chinese economies are so intertwined that they have effectively merged, but the lure of cheap labor is strong. In addition, Bush's policy of borrowing from China to finance the Iraq war has dug the U.S. into a mighty debt hole which will take decades to climb out of, if ever. The TARP bailout was dictated by China's threat to dump its American debt, which would have destroyed the U.S. economy. So while it is true that the U.S. cannot coerce China, China can coerce the U.S. This should be an unacceptable situation for Americans, but in order to do something about it, we must start making things in the USA again. If you're not willing to to convert the U.S. economy to green energy, stand back and watch the Chinese century take shape.
07:13 PM on 11/15/2009
Why do Western leaders have to don their clothing. It is unnerving.
09:05 PM on 11/15/2009
Not to mention that it looks totally dorky and inappropriate.
12:56 AM on 11/16/2009
"Why do Western leaders have to don their clothing. It is unnerving."

They'd look pretty silly running around naked! Talk about unnerving!
03:42 PM on 11/16/2009
LOL, so true!
01:01 PM on 11/15/2009
"...technically the combined income of the European Union is greater. "

This is more significant than the author concedes. For all their infighting, the European Union has had the greatest economy in the world since Bush invaded Iraq. Yes, the USA is number two in the rankings of world economies.

The greatest consequence of this is the devaluation of the US dollar which has been weak against the Euro. The dollar declined against the Euro 58% from 2001-2008.

Consider the ramifications of this. For every $100,000 of a U.S. citizen's assets, the international buying power dropped $58,000 since 2001 vs. the Euro. Combine that with the loss in your 401.k and other retirement savings, and you begin to see the real weakness of our dollar and economy.

In addition, the dollar's weakness wipes out the incentive for international investments in it.

I am very pleased that the stock market is making a recovery. I hope it continues. But my concern is that it is just an illusory bubble which will burst again, because the fundamental foundations of our economy are weak.
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cavegal
The Revolution Will Not Be Privatized
04:41 PM on 11/15/2009
Agreed. Especially with your last paragraph. I am extremely suspicious of any numbers coming out of Wall Street. I think they are trying to create another sucker rally. The middle class being the suckers!
07:37 AM on 11/17/2009
#2 if you look at fraudulent bubble numbers that were only there to make Bush look good and dump on Obama.
12:25 AM on 11/15/2009
It was Clinton who gave China "Most Favored Nation" trading status (In return for huge campaign contributions). Ever since, we have been rewarding industries for moving facilities to China. We overlook the fact that they still are a brutal communist regeime; whose government will think nothing of throwing their enormous populace into the meat grinder of the coorporations for self enrichment of the elite class. Perhaps Obama will pick up pointers on how to censor the internet properly, how to wiretap without restraint on all Americans conversations without regards to Constitutional protections, and learn to properly quell dissent through government re-education camps. Now that the American taxpayers have bailed out industry and the private bankers; I guess Communism did win after all. We the American taxpayers have lost. We have cheap goods, but gave away everything including our Bill of Rights; what a poor substitute. We have gained the material for our freedoms...but hey, the Olympics looked good, Westerners always did respect guilded cages; only our country isn't singing anymore...excuse me sir, I think this parrot you sold me is dead, deceased, off to meet his maker....as our government giggles the cage and says...no it isn't; there, the stock market just moved. As we find places to hide our homeless, underemployed, and unemployed from the financial figures...perhaps that's why the bankers are getting huge bonuses...so they can tell us the parrot lives.
07:10 AM on 11/15/2009
Why chronic relatavism,

that's the way capitalism works in this country. Whatever it takes to get that bottomline favorable for "ME" is the path the arrogant CEOs are going to take. To hell with the consequences down the road, I've got mine. Solipsism at its finest.

This practice has been going on for years like a metasticising cancer to our industrial base. Why we can become a "servicing" country, until the services are removed to India or Mexico.

One can't help but wonder what the hell the biggies in the MBA programs - Harvard, Yale, et.al. - are teaching these candidates. Is it how to rape the country's resources - materials and manpower? The evidence seems to point in that direction. Damn near every product on the market for our consumption is manufactured somewhere other than the U. S. And worse, the people we have been electing to run our country jump aboard that train and practically thumb their noses at the parochial electorate. How sweet is that?

Well...the 'Piper" has come to receive its dues. So now we have to pay. Congratulations to us!

Well...
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Bgorden
didn't cause the economic crisis
01:21 AM on 11/16/2009
It isn't Communism that won in China, it's State Capitalism.
11:35 PM on 11/14/2009
The US is still the wealthiest country in the world but over the period of the last administration, the total wealth increased while the median income fell. Bush really did make most Americans poorer, only the rich benefitted from his policies. The money is still here but the balance has shifted and it's no longer available for ordinary people to spend and that's what's killing the recovery. If we could just get the wealthy to spend some of their new found wealth inside the USA.
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cavegal
The Revolution Will Not Be Privatized
10:59 PM on 11/14/2009
The Chinese economy is completely dependent on foreign markets for it's manufacturing exports. I highly recommend reading articles by Gordon Chang and Jim Chanos. Gordon Chang wrote "The Coming Collapse of China" in 2001 and Jim Chanos owns Kynikos Associates, the world's biggest short selling hedge fund. Chanos was the investor that predicted Enron would implode and shorted the stock. He was right. Here is an excerpt of a story on Chanos from New York Magazine:

Chanos was excited that afternoon. He had just read a report that China’s electric consumption had dropped 4 percent, despite official government statistics that the Chinese economy was growing at 8 percent. He relished the implications. “I think they’re making up the numbers!” he said. As Wall Street picks up the pieces of the broken financial system, Chanos is already one step ahead. He sees China as the next domino to fall in the global meltdown. In recent months, Chanos has loaded up short positions on the infrastructure companies that have rushed to build China’s new highways, bridges, and tunnels. Now he is waiting for their share prices to tank.

http://nymag.com/news/business/52754/
10:34 AM on 11/15/2009
Very good comment ...when we USA lost "tin lunch pail" America..we gave away the store both literary and figuritativly! The world is burning and we Americans are losing our jobs and houses while China underpaid workers are enjoying Mc Donald's! Theres nothing wrong with any country trying to get better lives, but we Americans are still the best comsummers in the world! If we go down so will the world. Does our Govt (congress, execitive branch) really understand the American Middle Class? I dont think so. Look at the record for the last ten years. Lets get out of Iraq and Afghan and off of Arab Opec oil. Gas at 79 cents a gal will start our economy going again..inflation eats the guts out of a nation.
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cavegal
The Revolution Will Not Be Privatized
04:43 PM on 11/15/2009
Thank you and I agree we are in real trouble here.
09:57 PM on 11/14/2009
From the point of view of post-science, the lost decade in Japan is due mainly to the unavailability of a correct method of real estate appraisal. Similar to the US Savings and Loan Crisis, the financial crisis in Japan was caused by over-valuation of the real estate market..... In essence, some of the borrowers can inflate the prices of their real estates as high as they want, especially, when the interest rate had to remain near zero, so the payment on the interest is also near zero, in order to stimulate the Japanese economy.

Will China surpass USA as the leading world financial power? The answer is no, as Taiwan and Japan, which have perfect their skill in copying innovations, not in innovating..... In order to surpass USA, China must start to innovate right now, but that would require it to provide an ideal environment for innovators, a task far more difficult than just to undercut price using cheap labor force.

Will USA enter into a long period of recession? Most likely, yes. What kept the inflation, and interest rate, low is the depressed economy. Once the economy starts to expand, inflation will flare up, globally, especially, for raw materials. The rational way out of this quandary is to have a major innovation, using the innovation, rather than using M, to increase P.... To view entire article, please visit
http://www.postscience.com
11:21 PM on 11/14/2009
One of the key reasons the US economy is in the tank is that it has many of the innovations and then gets Asian countries to manufacture and evolve them. Then US consumers buy them and money passes from the US to Asian. US innovations create more jobs in Asia than in the US.

US corporations always explain their behavior as a cost saving measure, it's cheaper to manufacture in Asia. Ironically, Asian corporations are finding it cheaper to manufacture in the US so they are building new US factories. Nissan actually manufactures cars in the US for export to Europe.

The future of the US economy does rest with the Asian corporations, if not with the Asian markets.
09:47 PM on 11/14/2009
Why is China emerging as an economic force? Ask the Western corporations who put loyalty to their giant corporations above their countries. With the blessings of past administrations, corporations made sweet deals with the Chinese to produce goods with cheaper labor. So, jobs in America go belly up, the economy tanks, and no one here has any money to keep up the consumer economy. I don't get it. Is cheaper the only consideration? When do CEOs stop with their outrageous greed, even when their companies are unloading workers (aka the middle classes)? Who is going to buy all this stuff? The Chinese worker doesn't make enough, and the American no longer has any purchasing power. In my mind, this is not capitalism. I am all for free enterprise, where the person who builds the best mousetrap gets the business, expands, and prospers. But what has happened is that big business practices a kind of socialism, thru "buying" Congress and passing laws favoring its industries (health insurance, banking, credit cards) at the expense of citizens. When their ventures go south, they socialize their debts thru public coffers. Why isn't the welfare of citizens essential to a healthy economy? This is not capitalism. What we have is corps that are "too big to fail", spelling disaster for countries and the free enterprise system.
America needs big changes, or it will go the way of all "empires" (Greece, Rome, Ottoman, Great Britain) Other nations would be happy to see this happen. Scary times.
11:28 PM on 11/14/2009
The US effectively exported its major polluting industries and all the associated health issues to China and having paid the Chinese to all the dirty work had the nerve to point to China as the problem polluter.

There's plenty of evidence that providing basic health and welfare services to the population boosts overall economic performance. Even the wealthy benefit because of the economic growth. The only downside is that the wealthy no longer feel so privileged and that's why they oppose any initiative to help the lower classes.
09:39 PM on 11/14/2009
This is what "globalization" has produced. The outsourcing of American and European manufacturing to China has: 1) enriched a very few at the expense of many, and 2) enriched and empowered the largest Communist regime in history.

American business needs to bring its manufacturing home. To continue to do business in China is treasonous, in my view, and profoundly dangerous long-term.
07:15 PM on 11/14/2009
There has been ,a reference to the one party style of government that exists in China and a somewhat critical view of it.

I would suggest that in the US there is a one party system as well, both parties are controlled by big institutions [drug ,oil,unions,wall street etc.]rather than the people.

Can anyone say that California is well served by a supposed two party system?
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cavegal
The Revolution Will Not Be Privatized
07:03 PM on 11/14/2009
The weakness of the Chinese economy is that it's export-dominated, which accounts for 38-42 percent of its GDP. With developed countries not being able to purchase Chinese goods at the rate that they had been in the past, you'll see a continued decline in the Chinese economy. In essence, the Chinese leaders can do everything right and yet they still don't control their own destiny. And that's a problem you see in all the export-dependent economies, such as Russia, Iran, Japan, South Korea, Taiwan and Germany.

China has decided to try its own stimulus program in which they are trading short-term growth for long-term decline. Whereas when China opened up in December 1978, they grew their economy by developing a private sector. Now they're going in the opposite direction: renationalizing industries, choking off China's engine of growth and creating bad loans. They're going down the wrong path.

http://www.realclearworld.com/articles/2009/07/23/interview_with_gordon_chang_96972.html
08:35 PM on 11/14/2009
Um, China is promoting internal consumption now.

Also, Chinese are also acting out a long term economic strategy by buying up and hoarding natural resources like iron and coking coal.
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cavegal
The Revolution Will Not Be Privatized
10:27 PM on 11/14/2009
Chanos is reportedly attempting to short the entire Chinese economy. What's fueling the short case against China?

The $4.3 trillion Chinese economy is under-performing despite a $900 billion stimulus program.

China seems to be cooking its books. For instance, it reports that car sales are surging while gasoline consumption is flat. Is that realistic? Or are state run Chinese companies just stock-piling cars?

China may have too much capacity. The central planners built out productive capacity for a booming economy but China is stalling. In nearly every sector of the economy, China is in danger of producing huge quantities of goods with no buyers.

China's economic and political posturing signals that its leaders have no idea what is in store for them. The result may be a surprising economic collapse, akin to what happened when the housing bubble popped in the US.

http://www.businessinsider.com/jim-chanos-china-is-headed-for-a-huge-crash-2009-11
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old timer 37
Retired CEO, engineer
12:21 PM on 11/14/2009
From 1984-1989 I spent months in China as CEO of a hi-tech company.

I don't support the one party control of its political system; that is not something we can or will change, change will come from within.

However, I will give the Chinese their due... they think at least 50 years ahead, strategically, while we lurch from year to year reacting tactically to emerging threats and opportunities but doing little to systematically invest in our future as a society. The Chinese are building modern infrastructures, securing global supplies of oil, natural gas and minerals critical to hi-tech industries and are leading us in clean energy technologies and have gone from having virtually no economic reserves in the 1980s to massive ones today... by manipulating their currencies (yes) but with our eager cooperation as we used massive borrowing from Chinea to enable us to eat, drink and be merry on the cheap for the last two decades without personal savings and without paying the taxes we should have to finance two wars and agreed to social programs.

It's time to take a hard look at ourselves, to make some changes in our patterns of savings and taxes, to invest heavily in public infrastructures and plan strategically, in public and in private, for the legacy we will leave 50 years from now. The alternative is that we will rapidly become a second rate nation and a nation of whiners.
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doctor4kids
Incite civility and reason
12:42 PM on 11/14/2009
So true! Regardless of political party, our government can't see beyond the next election cycle. How can we change that?
01:46 PM on 11/14/2009
Change to a single party governance, then you don't have to spend half of your time once every four years on political elections.
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DoctorDoctor
02:03 PM on 11/14/2009
do as molly ivins said we needed to do; change the way we finance elections. public financing of defined-interval elections is the modern incarnation of the system the founding fathers contemplated resulting in a modern constitutional democracy. they certainly didn't think business conglomerates would be writing the very legislation that would regulate their behavior. so scalia and the other "originalists" should have no problem with it.
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cavegal
The Revolution Will Not Be Privatized
07:13 PM on 11/14/2009
We live by the mantra of the Wall Street quarterly profit report. It is decimating our economy. You are right in that we are a country that does not think strategically 50 years into the future. We are not prepared to compete on a global playing field and are now scrambling for some positioning.
12:02 PM on 11/14/2009
china is americas life support system -------the second china demands repayment of its cash and or stops buying US debt ---THE USA will go the way of iceland ------bankrupt.------and the currency will collapse.

the USA is in no position to dictate anything to the chinese ----800 billion notwithstanding
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doctor4kids
Incite civility and reason
12:38 PM on 11/14/2009
Iceland had the misfortune of not being too big to fail. If the USA goes down, we take the whole world with us.
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DoctorDoctor
02:05 PM on 11/14/2009
that's becoming less and less true. the rest of the world is adjusting; learning to get along without us. we'd better be careful or we'll be the labor pool we once looked down our nose at in the far east.
02:19 PM on 11/14/2009
That will relatively soon not true anymore as trade with US trade is now quickly being replaced in countries that relied on the US.

In fact soon the countries with large foreign reserves/stock holdings (China, Abu Dhabi, Norway, Singapore ...) may soon be in a position at least in theory where whenever they feel American exceptionalism and self-aggrandizing gets out of hand, just say "We demand all Americans take off their clothes and walk around on their hands for one hour next thursday at 12PM or we WILL crash your economy".

What scares many in the rest of the world is that the US has the ego of an earth-sized planet, more weapons than the rest of the world combined, an insane religious right and has some serious humiliation coming up.
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11:34 AM on 11/14/2009
China already has the means to disable the U.S. GPS system and destroy its most fearsome weapons, its aircraft carriers. Intelligence is the name of the game for our military and, without it, it is vulnerable. Remove the intelligence component and compromise its reach and the U.S. essentially has to go mano-a-mano... who do you think has the better numbers? I guarantee Chinese small arms aren't as fickle as their U.S. counterparts and their military probably outnumbers the U.S. military 4-to-1.

What good would it be to loan someone money and not be able to call their marker? It's inevitable that China will ultimately develop the means to completely negate the strengths of the U.S. military. The countermeasures to defeat U.S. super-weapons are far cheaper than the super-weapons themselves. China may spend less on weapons but I'm pretty sure its investments are more strategic.

Congress has put the U.S. up as collateral for its loans, thinking that it can simply default in the worst case scenario. Our taxes primarily only pay interest on our debt to China and the Federal Reserve. The wealthy elite has decided to deliver this country into serfdom to pay off their benefactors and retain power. As time goes on, the U.S. people will only have two choices... serfdom or destruction.
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barakagirl
My "Micro-bio"? are we talking germs?
04:31 PM on 11/14/2009
OK man you've said it all!!! people have been dumb down into thinking they are free! but they leave in a modern Serfdom!!! they don't get the entire implications of Globalization and the rise of emerging markets/nations. Americans are fixated on Al qaida and Afganistan!!! nonsense ! How do we get back to the innovative, high tech mindset of last century is the MOST IMPORTANT ISSUE! we need to get back to basics, work hard and innovate that's how we keep up or soon China would face illegal aliens coming from the US...



BRAVO MY FRIEND YOU SUMMED UP MY THINKING