Clinton, Obama Engage in Bitter Debate

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NEDRA PICKLER | January 21, 2008 10:30 PM EST | AP

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Democratic presidential hopeful Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton, D-N.Y., left, answers a question as Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., center, and former Sen. John Edwards, D-N.C., listen during a Democratic presidential debate in Myrtle Beach, S.C., Monday, Jan. 21, 2008. (AP Photo/Mary Ann Chastain)

MYRTLE BEACH, S.C. — Democratic presidential rivals Hillary Rodham Clinton and Barack Obama accused each other of repeatedly and deliberately distorting the truth for political gain Monday night in a highly personal, finger-wagging debate that ranged from the war in Iraq to Bill Clinton's role in the campaign.

Obama told the former first lady he was helping unemployed workers on the streets of Chicago when "you were a corporate lawyer sitting on the board at Wal-Mart."

Moments later, Clinton said that she was fighting against misguided Republican policies "when you were practicing law and representing your contributor ... in his slum landlord business in inner city Chicago."

Obama seemed particularly irritated at the former president, whom he accused in absentia of uttering a series of distortions to aid his wife's presidential effort.

"I'm here. He's not," she snapped.

"Well, I can't tell who I'm running against sometimes," Obama countered.

The two rivals, joined by former Sen. John Edwards, debated at close quarters five days before the South Carolina primary _ and 15 days before the equivalent of a nationwide primary across 20 states that will go a long way toward settling the battle for the party's nomination.

Hillary Clinton was the national front-runner for months in the race, but Obama won the kickoff Iowa caucuses three weeks ago, knocking her off-stride. She recovered quickly, winning the New Hampshire primary in an upset, and on Saturday, won the popular vote in the Nevada caucuses while Obama won one more delegate than she.

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The Democratic electorate in South Carolina is expected to be roughly 50 percent black, an evident advantage for Obama in a historic race that matches a black man against a woman.

Even in the superheated atmosphere of the primary, the statements and exchanges between Clinton and Obama were unusually acrimonious. The debate came as the two campaigns continued to complain about dirty politics and disenfranchisement of voters in last Saturday's Nevada caucuses.

Obama suggested the Clintons were both practicing the kind of political tactics that had alienated voters.

"There was a set of assertions made by Senator Clinton as well as her husband that are not factually accurate," Obama said. "I think that part of what people are looking for right now is someone who is going to solve problems and not resort to the same typical politics that we've seen in Washington."

Clinton countered: "I believe your record and what you say should matter."

Edwards, who badly trails his two rivals, tried to stay above the fray while pleading for equal time.

"Are there three people in this debate, not two?" he asked.

"We have got to understand, this is not about us personally. It's about what we are trying to do for this country," Edwards said to applause from the audience.

Hillary Clinton, who was close with the Walton family, served on the Wal-Mart board from 1986 to 1992. In 2006, her Senate campaign returned $5,000 to the company's political action committee while citing differences with company policies.

A blind trust held by Clinton and her husband, the former president, included stock holdings in Wal-Mart. They liquidated the contents of the blind trust in 2007 because of investments that could pose conflicts of interest or prove embarrassing as she ran for president.

Chicago real estate developer and fast food magnate Antoin "Tony" Rezko was a longtime fundraiser for Obama. Prosecutors have charged him with fraud, attempted extortion and money laundering in what they allege was a scheme to get campaign money and payoffs from firms seeking to do business before two state boards.

Obama's campaign said Saturday it was giving to charities more than $40,000 from donors linked to Rezko. In 2006, when charges against Rezko were made public, Obama gave $11,500 in Rezko contributions to charities.

Often speaking over each other, Obama and Clinton bitterly complained about each other's legislative records. Obama questioned why the New York senator had voted for a bankruptcy bill that she later said she was glad hadn't passed, and Clinton criticized Obama for voting "present" on dozens of occasions while a member of the Illinois legislature.

"Senator Obama, it's hard to have a straight up debate with you because you never take responsibility for any vote," Clinton said to loud boos. "On issue after issue, you voted present ... Whenever someone raises that, there's always some sort of explanation."

Obama accused Clinton of playing loose with the facts and saying anything to get elected, while Edwards joined Clinton in criticizing Obama for the "present" votes.

"Why would you over 100 times vote present?" Edwards pointedly challenged Obama. He said he didn't simply refuse to vote on controversial bills in Congress. "It would have been safe for me politically ... but I have a responsibility to take a position even if it costs me politically."

Obama said most of his present votes didn't have political consequences but were because of technical or legal concerns.

"Don't question, John, that on issue after issue that is important to the American people, I haven't followed. I have led," Obama said.

"Present" votes are common in the Illinois legislature, and they have the same impact as a "no" vote. Legislators use them for a variety of reasons, from registering doubts about a measure's legality to avoiding a firm position.

Democratic Rep. Jim Clyburn, an influential leader in South Carolina, suggested on Monday that Bill Clinton tone down his rhetoric. Questioned about it, Hillary Clinton said her husband was "a tremendous asset. .. I believe that this campaign is not about our spouses. It is about us. It is about each of us individually."

Obama said he would expect the ex-president to campaign for his wife, but "I have been troubled ... the degree to which my record is not accurately portrayed."

With the holiday honoring the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr., as a backdrop, the candidates also addressed questions of racial equality.

Clinton and Edwards compared their records on helping to alleviate poverty, while Obama was asked if he agreed with the famed black novelist Toni Morrison who dubbed Bill Clinton "the first black president."

Obama praised the former president's "affinity" with black people but also drew laughs.

"I would have to investigate more, Bill's dancing abilities and some of this other stuff before I accurately judged whether he was, in fact, a brother," Obama said.

"I'm sure that can be arranged," Clinton joked.

The debate was sponsored by the Congressional Black Caucus Institute and CNN.

___

Associated Press Writers Beth Fouhy in South Carolina and Christopher Wills in Illinois contributed to this report.

MYRTLE BEACH, S.C. — Democratic presidential rivals Hillary Rodham Clinton and Barack Obama accused each other of repeatedly and deliberately distorting the truth for political gain Monday night...
MYRTLE BEACH, S.C. — Democratic presidential rivals Hillary Rodham Clinton and Barack Obama accused each other of repeatedly and deliberately distorting the truth for political gain Monday night...
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- mrJJ I'm a Fan of mrJJ 23 fans permalink

Don't look now.....

http://www.drudgereport.com/

Billary decries.... We never had relations with this guy!!!!

we diddnt accept his donations and never had him for dinner at the White House. I'd prove it to you but my WH records are sealed by the secret service....

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:47 AM on 01/25/2008

New HuffPoo headline....

"Obama Reinforces Stereotype Of Blacks As Dancing Minstrels"

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:51 AM on 01/25/2008

TO: Senator Barack Obama and Senator Hillary Clinton January 23, 2008

It was while I was convalescing from sickness that I gave of my $20.00 dollars to help starving children in Africa reference above post. Let me add that veterans are on Welfare too and soldiers with post traumatic stress. Ron Kovic's film of Born on the Fourth of July tells of soldiers not finding work and homeless and how he ended up on the streets.

President Jimmy Carter forewards this book of Rabbi Charles A. Kroloff who mentions that homeless are tragically neglected and that veterans are on Welfare and others on Welfare as stated above post and here of book by Rabbi Charles A. Kroloff of 54 Ways To Help the Homeless. Rabbi Kroloff also states,"Most Homeless are the victims of crime, not the perpetrators." '93 Eva Hart Christian Army 62-70 670 Eddy St. Sfc 94109 Rec job Sec of Def 64

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:00 PM on 01/23/2008
- kathcalla I'm a Fan of kathcalla 3 fans permalink

FROM WASHINGTON POST TODAY: Grading Stimulus Plans
Obama: A-, Clinton: C- JohnE: B- Mc: D Rudy: Inc W: B-
Ms. Marcus grading starts with Barack Obama (HIGHEST GRADE) A- I criticized his previous tax plan, but Obama is at the head of the class with an intelligently designed, $120 billion stimulus plan. He would speed a $250 tax credit to most workers, followed by another $250, triggered automatically, if the economy continues on its sour path. Obama would direct a similar rebate to low- and middle-income seniors, who are also apt to spend and could get checks quickly. One demerit: Obama omits any increase in food stamp benefits, which Moody's estimates would have the greatest bang for the buck, $1.73 for every dollar spent.

Hillary Clinton: C- Clinton, too, raised the issue early, then turned in a faulty first draft with a $70 billion stimulus plan that didn't provide much immediate stimulation. It included a $25 billion increase in the program to help low-income Americans with heating costs -- an excessive amount (the current program is under $3 billion) that probably wouldn't kick in until next winter. Even worse was her housing plan, including a five-year freeze on subprime mortgage rates that could produce higher interest rates and reduce liquidity.

Four days later, Clinton said she would immediately implement a $40 billion tax rebate plan she had put in reserve in her first draft. Fine, but overall, the Obama plan devotes a far greater percentage to spending that is more likely to jump-start the economy.

John McCain: D plus The senator should have his plan sent back with "Did you read this assignment?" scrawled in red ink.

President Bush, sets the curve.
George W. Bush: B-

Mitt Romney: D Romney's plan is way too big ($233 billion) and badly constructed...

Mike Huckabee: D- Huckabee understands economic anxiety better than economic principles...

Rudy Giuliani: Incomplete. His position is too internally contradictory to grade...

See Full Story: washpost.compost.com

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:28 PM on 01/23/2008
- westreal I'm a Fan of westreal 19 fans permalink

If you are offended by Hillary and Bill's dirty politic attacks on Obama or their outright lying about the issues then please email the Democractic National Committee and let them know.

http://www.democrats.org/page/s/contactissues

IF HILLARY WINS THE NOMINATION AND YOU’D RATHER VOTE REPUBLICAN OR NOT AT ALL in the general election then email the DNC and let them know. We can actually force the DNC to support Obama if they know we will not vote for slick Hillary in November. DO SOMETHING. Let YOUR voices be heard.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:23 PM on 01/23/2008

TO: Senator Barack Obama and Senator Hillary Clinton January 23, 2008

On June 10, 1991 I received from James Robison Christian Organization from Fort Worth, Texas a receipt for having sent them $20.00 to help starving children in Africa. One could help feed 6 children in Africa for six months on about $20.00 a wonderful program.

Furthermore, as you know I have been on this internet mentioning my scarce food,jobs,health resources in America when I had quit evil jobs and discovered all this. I filed my lawsuit of 97 of this scarce food,jobs resources in US and all Courts refused case including Wash DC Supreme Court and my reps.

You see had the Wash DC Supreme Court, other Courts,my reps been decent,kind people with compassion then I could have continued my cause of helping starving children in Africa, but they did not. Do you understand how ugly this is people? Yet on internet you ignored my case and my case for others as well. How terrible to ignore my case of helping me and of helping starving children in Afric and ignoring helping children and others here too. God and Jesus will judge.

Elliot Liebow,Jewish Anthropologist, writes in his '93 boo,"Closing down shelters in Wash DC and in cities around the country is criminal,self-defeating,and dumb. Welfare gives meager money. It's a Government of All American thus we must help everyone." Liebow'93
Article in his book states,"I think, they think, and we must uphold the dignity of homeless and I'll quit if they do put in those bad rules. It is not a psych unit with bleepers to monitor them."


Rabbi Charles A. Kroloff with foreward by President Jimmy Carter writes in his book '93,"On Welfare there are low-wage families,violence and abuse against children,runaways,veterans,elderly,aids' victims." God's Inalienable Rights Are for All. Eva Hart Christian Army 62-70 670 Eddy St. Sfc 94109

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:33 PM on 01/23/2008

It's fun to watch barbaric, dishonest, warmongering, corporatist Hillary and Bill Clinton successfully expose barbaric, dishonest, warmongering, corporatist Obama for having the same record as Hillary. It's fun to see how pissed off "audacity" gets when he's accurately exposed for being identical to Hillary in deed as opposed to word.

Both are two-bit, lying warmongerers, willing to fight to the last drop of my family's (but not theirs) blood and lie about it.

The level of cynicism on the part of Clinton is amazing -- basically attacking her own record in order to get Obama supporters because Obama has Hillary's record. It's hilarious.

If Obama doesn't like the truth -- that he and Hillary have the same records -- then he should do something about it -- not simply talk about it. He should come out against unbridled free trade without it being a double-talking point with fine print and come out for immediate, safe withdrawal of all US troops and contractors. Otherwisde he should admit that he and Hillary are the same person and he thinks Americans should elect a younger Hillary -- him.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:25 AM on 01/23/2008
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I've said this a few times in this and other blogs on this site, but I want to be sure that you see this.

When asked to tell us what Obama's plans or positions are...

You Obamaphiles need to address those questions, or not reply at all.

Simply pasting a link to his website is insufficient as a response.

I will not go to ANY politicians site that REQUIRES me to input my email address AND my zip code BEFORE I can enter it.

If his campaign wants people to see just exactly WHAT his message is, that is one piss poor way of doing it.

Hence, when we call him out on being superficial and not addressing the ISSUES, you need to tell us his stance on those (or any) issues. But REQUIRING this information of me BEFORE I get to see anything, just enforces my belief of his superficiality.

I haven't seen ANY stance. And I'm not giving my personal info to him, just so I can figure out that he's the "right" guy or not.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:34 AM on 01/23/2008
- degjack I'm a Fan of degjack 8 fans permalink

The Clintons are killing Obama. They're really messing with his head. That is not good, because they will use that vulnerability against him. Hillary brought him down to size last night....she'll have him crying next.
Today she labeled him "frustrated". It's true.
LOL! It's the beginning of the deconstruction of his halo.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:29 PM on 01/22/2008
- Rubiconski I'm a Fan of Rubiconski 30 fans permalink
photo

If you want Clinton as president - then get used to saying President McCain.

I'm tired of the short sighted people on here. Obama is the only way Democrats are going to win - Period. Simply see who Fox News is encouraging you to support - Clinton - because they know she cannot be elected.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:04 PM on 01/22/2008
- anghiari I'm a Fan of anghiari 22 fans permalink

BILL'S OBAMA STRATEGY

It takes an attack dog to know an attack dog...Bill Clinton's ex-buddy Dick Morris' take on Bill's Obama Strategy below...point by point

"WHY is Bill Clinton courting such intense publicity, in evitably much of it negative?
Is he crazy? Crazy like a fox.


He has two goals and is achieving them both spectacularly.
First, he wants to be the same kind of lightning rod for Hillary that she was for him during his run for the presidency.

Now, she rarely gets hit anymore. They're hitting Bill instead.

The other method behind his madness is that Bill wants to suck up all the oxygen in the room and dominate the coverage of the Democratic contest. By doing so, he cuts Obama out of the news, pushes him off the front page, and usurps the headlines.

His tactics now are reminiscent of those he used to black out John Kerry during the lead-up to the 2004 Democratic National Convention.


Ultimately, the Clintons are playing a game of jujitsu with Obama, using his own strength against him.

By challenging Obama for the black vote - by promising to go door to door in South Carolina in minority neighborhoods, for example - Bill is highlighting the question: Will Obama carry the black vote? Of course, he will. He leads, 4 to 1, among African-Americans now.

But by making that the central question, Obama's South Carolina victory will be hailed as proof that he won the African-American vote. Such block voting will trigger the white backlash Sen. Clinton needs to win.

Once whites see blacks voting en masse for a black man, they will figure that it is a racial game and line up for Hillary. Already, she carries white voters by 2 to 1.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:01 PM on 01/22/2008
- anghiari I'm a Fan of anghiari 22 fans permalink

BILL'S OBAMA STRATEGY

It takes an attack dog to know an attack dog...Bill Clinton's ex-buddy Dick Morris' take on Bill's Obama Strategy below...point by point

"WHY is Bill Clinton courting such intense publicity, in evitably much of it negative?
Is he crazy? Crazy like a fox.


He has two goals and is achieving them both spectacularly.
First, he wants to be the same kind of lightning rod for Hillary that she was for him during his run for the presidency.

Now, she rarely gets hit anymore. They're hitting Bill instead.

The other method behind his madness is that Bill wants to suck up all the oxygen in the room and dominate the coverage of the Democratic contest. By doing so, he cuts Obama out of the news, pushes him off the front page, and usurps the headlines.

His tactics now are reminiscent of those he used to black out John Kerry during the lead-up to the 2004 Democratic National Convention.


Ultimately, the Clintons are playing a game of jujitsu with Obama, using his own strength against him.

By challenging Obama for the black vote - by promising to go door to door in South Carolina in minority neighborhoods, for example - Bill is highlighting the question: Will Obama carry the black vote? Of course, he will. He leads, 4 to 1, among African-Americans now.

But by making that the central question, Obama's South Carolina victory will be hailed as proof that he won the African-American vote. Such block voting will trigger the white backlash Sen. Clinton needs to win.

Once whites see blacks voting en masse for a black man, they will figure that it is a racial game and line up for Hillary. Already, she carries white voters by 2 to 1.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:58 PM on 01/22/2008
- gvidal I'm a Fan of gvidal 5 fans permalink

Obama's credibility is sinking fast...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:07 PM on 01/22/2008

If Barack Obama doesn't win the nomination Mike Bloomberg will enter the race and I would rather vote for him or John McCain instead of Hillary.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:35 PM on 01/22/2008
- marinade I'm a Fan of marinade 47 fans permalink

Isn't it nice to have a positive candidate like Edwards? The fight between the other two is just a sampling of what they will bring to the White House.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:18 PM on 01/22/2008
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